Splicing advice...

[Don Z.]

OK, so I've been taken down a peg. I thought I could splice nearly anything made from fiber...

So I was wandering around Bacon's the other day, and scored a roll of what they called 5/8 braided nylon, at only about $0.58 a foot. Needing new docklines, it seemed a score.

The rope looks to be made in Poland. I'm making this assumption from the maker's lable on it which lists a telephone number starting with "48". I'd quote the whole label, but I left it on the boat (now 400 miles from here). Further, there was another label which listed its diameter as 16mm.

The rope is a single braid (no core) nylon, and looks to be not 12 strand (as I originally thought, and can splice well), but rather 8 strand. The strands are actually doubled, making for 16 yarns total.

Normally, if I had 12 strand single braid, following Toss' advice in The Rigger's Apprentice , I would mark my eye, make the tail 24 diameters long, and taper by cutting every fifth "chevron".

With this line, two problems come to play. The first is that clearly, every fifth chevron is not the answer. I'm sure there's a way to figure out how many it should be for eight strand vice twelve, I just don't know what it is. I can overcome this by faking it, that is by unlaying the mess, tapering appropriately, and then trying to get the nylon to be somewhat compliant by stiffening it with hair gel, or some such technique.

The bigger problem I am running into is that the braid is so tight, I cannot fit the tail as a "core". That is to say, when you "squish" the rope in order to take up slack in the braid, making the hollow core larger, there still is not enough room to stuff the tail.

This leads me to wonder, is there another way to splice eight strand? Perhaps by tucking strands, as I would with three strand laid? Based on what I can tell so far, stuffing the tail into the core is the proverbial ten pounds into a five pound bag. Any suggestions?

[Don Z.]

OK, so I've been taken down a peg. I thought I could splice nearly anything made from fiber...

So I was wandering around Bacon's the other day, and scored a roll of what they called 5/8 braided nylon, at only about $0.58 a foot. Needing new docklines, it seemed a score.

The rope looks to be made in Poland. I'm making this assumption from the maker's lable on it which lists a telephone number starting with "48". I'd quote the whole label, but I left it on the boat (now 400 miles from here). Further, there was another label which listed its diameter as 16mm.

The rope is a single braid (no core) nylon, and looks to be not 12 strand (as I originally thought, and can splice well), but rather 8 strand. The strands are actually doubled, making for 16 yarns total.

Normally, if I had 12 strand single braid, following Toss' advice in The Rigger's Apprentice , I would mark my eye, make the tail 24 diameters long, and taper by cutting every fifth "chevron".

With this line, two problems come to play. The first is that clearly, every fifth chevron is not the answer. I'm sure there's a way to figure out how many it should be for eight strand vice twelve, I just don't know what it is. I can overcome this by faking it, that is by unlaying the mess, tapering appropriately, and then trying to get the nylon to be somewhat compliant by stiffening it with hair gel, or some such technique.

The bigger problem I am running into is that the braid is so tight, I cannot fit the tail as a "core". That is to say, when you "squish" the rope in order to take up slack in the braid, making the hollow core larger, there still is not enough room to stuff the tail.

This leads me to wonder, is there another way to splice eight strand? Perhaps by tucking strands, as I would with three strand laid? Based on what I can tell so far, stuffing the tail into the core is the proverbial ten pounds into a five pound bag. Any suggestions?

[Don Z.]

OK, so I've been taken down a peg. I thought I could splice nearly anything made from fiber...

So I was wandering around Bacon's the other day, and scored a roll of what they called 5/8 braided nylon, at only about $0.58 a foot. Needing new docklines, it seemed a score.

The rope looks to be made in Poland. I'm making this assumption from the maker's lable on it which lists a telephone number starting with "48". I'd quote the whole label, but I left it on the boat (now 400 miles from here). Further, there was another label which listed its diameter as 16mm.

The rope is a single braid (no core) nylon, and looks to be not 12 strand (as I originally thought, and can splice well), but rather 8 strand. The strands are actually doubled, making for 16 yarns total.

Normally, if I had 12 strand single braid, following Toss' advice in The Rigger's Apprentice , I would mark my eye, make the tail 24 diameters long, and taper by cutting every fifth "chevron".

With this line, two problems come to play. The first is that clearly, every fifth chevron is not the answer. I'm sure there's a way to figure out how many it should be for eight strand vice twelve, I just don't know what it is. I can overcome this by faking it, that is by unlaying the mess, tapering appropriately, and then trying to get the nylon to be somewhat compliant by stiffening it with hair gel, or some such technique.

The bigger problem I am running into is that the braid is so tight, I cannot fit the tail as a "core". That is to say, when you "squish" the rope in order to take up slack in the braid, making the hollow core larger, there still is not enough room to stuff the tail.

This leads me to wonder, is there another way to splice eight strand? Perhaps by tucking strands, as I would with three strand laid? Based on what I can tell so far, stuffing the tail into the core is the proverbial ten pounds into a five pound bag. Any suggestions?

[Hughman]

Bulldog clamps? tongue.gif

Call Brion toss, or post to his web page. (check the archives first.)

[Hughman]

Bulldog clamps? tongue.gif

Call Brion toss, or post to his web page. (check the archives first.)

[Hughman]

Bulldog clamps? tongue.gif

Call Brion toss, or post to his web page. (check the archives first.)

[Donn]

There are PDF files for 3 different 8-strand splices here. (http://www.samsonrope.com/home/recmarine/splicing/index.cfm)

[Donn]

There are PDF files for 3 different 8-strand splices here. (http://www.samsonrope.com/home/recmarine/splicing/index.cfm)

[Donn]

There are PDF files for 3 different 8-strand splices here. (http://www.samsonrope.com/home/recmarine/splicing/index.cfm)

[Bob Cleek]

Don's post is dead on. I didn't know Sampson had that site when I figured it out. Just back splice along the line. Works fine. I've never had a bit of trouble with that method in the years and years I've been using Sampson's Intrepid braid. Excellent stuff. Very little stretch.

[Bob Cleek]

Don's post is dead on. I didn't know Sampson had that site when I figured it out. Just back splice along the line. Works fine. I've never had a bit of trouble with that method in the years and years I've been using Sampson's Intrepid braid. Excellent stuff. Very little stretch.

[Bob Cleek]

Don's post is dead on. I didn't know Sampson had that site when I figured it out. Just back splice along the line. Works fine. I've never had a bit of trouble with that method in the years and years I've been using Sampson's Intrepid braid. Excellent stuff. Very little stretch.

[Don Z.]

Donn,
Thanks... I didn't think to hit the Samson's site, because I didn't think they still had 8 strand... last I saw was 12... and I was beating myself up because I drove back to Annapolis and left my copy of Ashley's on the boat in Newport...

Thanks again... I knew I could count on you guys!

PS (edited to add) Hughman... did post on Brion's site... Will check there to see if anything else is suggested. Also, failing the bulldog clamps, what I did do on the first one was flat seize, parcel the tapered tail, and then added leather chafing gear to hide the mess. I am looking for a better source of leather in RI, as I'll need something more durable than the elk hide I have here... but the elk hide will get me through for a little while!
Z

PPS (one more edit)... what I am calling 8 strand, Samson calls 16... That is to say, their 8 strand is four strand in pairs... So I'm using the wrong terminology... but I think if I combine their 8 strand directions and their "tuck splice for round plait ropes" which looks to be two pairs of sixes... I'll come up with something. Definitely not by burying the tail, though! We'll work it out, I'm just not done yet... and I can always go back to flat seizings!

[ 07-22-2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Don Z. ]

[Don Z.]

Donn,
Thanks... I didn't think to hit the Samson's site, because I didn't think they still had 8 strand... last I saw was 12... and I was beating myself up because I drove back to Annapolis and left my copy of Ashley's on the boat in Newport...

Thanks again... I knew I could count on you guys!

PS (edited to add) Hughman... did post on Brion's site... Will check there to see if anything else is suggested. Also, failing the bulldog clamps, what I did do on the first one was flat seize, parcel the tapered tail, and then added leather chafing gear to hide the mess. I am looking for a better source of leather in RI, as I'll need something more durable than the elk hide I have here... but the elk hide will get me through for a little while!
Z

PPS (one more edit)... what I am calling 8 strand, Samson calls 16... That is to say, their 8 strand is four strand in pairs... So I'm using the wrong terminology... but I think if I combine their 8 strand directions and their "tuck splice for round plait ropes" which looks to be two pairs of sixes... I'll come up with something. Definitely not by burying the tail, though! We'll work it out, I'm just not done yet... and I can always go back to flat seizings!

[ 07-22-2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Don Z. ]

[Don Z.]

Donn,
Thanks... I didn't think to hit the Samson's site, because I didn't think they still had 8 strand... last I saw was 12... and I was beating myself up because I drove back to Annapolis and left my copy of Ashley's on the boat in Newport...

Thanks again... I knew I could count on you guys!

PS (edited to add) Hughman... did post on Brion's site... Will check there to see if anything else is suggested. Also, failing the bulldog clamps, what I did do on the first one was flat seize, parcel the tapered tail, and then added leather chafing gear to hide the mess. I am looking for a better source of leather in RI, as I'll need something more durable than the elk hide I have here... but the elk hide will get me through for a little while!
Z

PPS (one more edit)... what I am calling 8 strand, Samson calls 16... That is to say, their 8 strand is four strand in pairs... So I'm using the wrong terminology... but I think if I combine their 8 strand directions and their "tuck splice for round plait ropes" which looks to be two pairs of sixes... I'll come up with something. Definitely not by burying the tail, though! We'll work it out, I'm just not done yet... and I can always go back to flat seizings!

[ 07-22-2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Don Z. ]

[Jim Hillman]

If you can't find anything local in R.I then try online at Tandy Leather (http://www.tandyleather.com/leather.html)

Good Luck.

[Jim Hillman]

If you can't find anything local in R.I then try online at Tandy Leather (http://www.tandyleather.com/leather.html)

Good Luck.

[Jim Hillman]

If you can't find anything local in R.I then try online at Tandy Leather (http://www.tandyleather.com/leather.html)

Good Luck.

[Hughman]

There is a 'leather district' in NYC, where I bought several whole hides from the Hassidic proprietor - I needed a translator - and the cost was very reasonable for what I wanted- blemishes take a lot off the price but don't signify for a schooner rig!

The shops had hides stacked floor to ceiling, in every possible variety.

Maybe someone more familiar with NYC could pinpoint this place?

[Hughman]

There is a 'leather district' in NYC, where I bought several whole hides from the Hassidic proprietor - I needed a translator - and the cost was very reasonable for what I wanted- blemishes take a lot off the price but don't signify for a schooner rig!

The shops had hides stacked floor to ceiling, in every possible variety.

Maybe someone more familiar with NYC could pinpoint this place?

[Hughman]

There is a 'leather district' in NYC, where I bought several whole hides from the Hassidic proprietor - I needed a translator - and the cost was very reasonable for what I wanted- blemishes take a lot off the price but don't signify for a schooner rig!

The shops had hides stacked floor to ceiling, in every possible variety.

Maybe someone more familiar with NYC could pinpoint this place?

[Donn]

The Leather District in Lower Manhattan, was "The Swamp."

"An area in lower Manhattan compassing Gold, Frankfort, Pearl, Water and Ferry streets. It became the site of the city's first tanning pits during colonial times and was soon the center of the city's leather industry, which was attracted by the fresh water that flowed into the area from the Collect and by the proximity of the district to the docks along the East River. Although the pond was covered over by 1811, the Swamp remained the site of the city's leather district."

It's not as concentrated now, and dealers can be found in both Lower Manhattan, on Gold Street and Beekman Street, and, increasingly, in Brooklyn.

[Donn]

The Leather District in Lower Manhattan, was "The Swamp."

"An area in lower Manhattan compassing Gold, Frankfort, Pearl, Water and Ferry streets. It became the site of the city's first tanning pits during colonial times and was soon the center of the city's leather industry, which was attracted by the fresh water that flowed into the area from the Collect and by the proximity of the district to the docks along the East River. Although the pond was covered over by 1811, the Swamp remained the site of the city's leather district."

It's not as concentrated now, and dealers can be found in both Lower Manhattan, on Gold Street and Beekman Street, and, increasingly, in Brooklyn.

[Donn]

The Leather District in Lower Manhattan, was "The Swamp."

"An area in lower Manhattan compassing Gold, Frankfort, Pearl, Water and Ferry streets. It became the site of the city's first tanning pits during colonial times and was soon the center of the city's leather industry, which was attracted by the fresh water that flowed into the area from the Collect and by the proximity of the district to the docks along the East River. Although the pond was covered over by 1811, the Swamp remained the site of the city's leather district."

It's not as concentrated now, and dealers can be found in both Lower Manhattan, on Gold Street and Beekman Street, and, increasingly, in Brooklyn.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Butchers in rural towns kill, cut up, and freeze beeves for their farmer customers.

They sell the stuff that they keep as part of their fee, which usually includes the cowhide.

See who they're selling to. The wholesalers and jobbers can get you a good price, and a few butchers sell to some "buckskinner" types who tan their own, and may or may not sell them reasonably...

Alan

[Alan D. Hyde]

Butchers in rural towns kill, cut up, and freeze beeves for their farmer customers.

They sell the stuff that they keep as part of their fee, which usually includes the cowhide.

See who they're selling to. The wholesalers and jobbers can get you a good price, and a few butchers sell to some "buckskinner" types who tan their own, and may or may not sell them reasonably...

Alan

[Alan D. Hyde]

Butchers in rural towns kill, cut up, and freeze beeves for their farmer customers.

They sell the stuff that they keep as part of their fee, which usually includes the cowhide.

See who they're selling to. The wholesalers and jobbers can get you a good price, and a few butchers sell to some "buckskinner" types who tan their own, and may or may not sell them reasonably...

Alan