oil navigation lamps

[jeffery carson]

Does anyone know of a source for port/starboard and stern oil lamps that would be appropriate for a 36' boat? I would like to build oil backups into my dorade boxes. Thanks in advance.

Jeff

[jeffery carson]

Does anyone know of a source for port/starboard and stern oil lamps that would be appropriate for a 36' boat? I would like to build oil backups into my dorade boxes. Thanks in advance.

Jeff

[jeffery carson]

Does anyone know of a source for port/starboard and stern oil lamps that would be appropriate for a 36' boat? I would like to build oil backups into my dorade boxes. Thanks in advance.

Jeff

[Kim Whitmyre]

Here's one:

http://www.popeyesmarine.com/Lighting.htm

Kim

[Kim Whitmyre]

Here's one:

http://www.popeyesmarine.com/Lighting.htm

Kim

[Kim Whitmyre]

Here's one:

http://www.popeyesmarine.com/Lighting.htm

Kim

[jeffery carson]

Wow,

Thanks, I've been searching for weeks online. Could find 22" tall Den Han lamps, but nothing in the size I needed. I appreciate the help!

Jeff

[jeffery carson]

Wow,

Thanks, I've been searching for weeks online. Could find 22" tall Den Han lamps, but nothing in the size I needed. I appreciate the help!

Jeff

[jeffery carson]

Wow,

Thanks, I've been searching for weeks online. Could find 22" tall Den Han lamps, but nothing in the size I needed. I appreciate the help!

Jeff

[Paul Silverman]

Try searching on ebay. I've bought used oil anchor and port/starboard navigation lamps. I had to implement a search aid that notified me when new items were listed. You will have to ignore the cheap room-decorations, but there are a surprising amount of good used lamps that are much cheaper than purchasing new.

[Paul Silverman]

Try searching on ebay. I've bought used oil anchor and port/starboard navigation lamps. I had to implement a search aid that notified me when new items were listed. You will have to ignore the cheap room-decorations, but there are a surprising amount of good used lamps that are much cheaper than purchasing new.

[Paul Silverman]

Try searching on ebay. I've bought used oil anchor and port/starboard navigation lamps. I had to implement a search aid that notified me when new items were listed. You will have to ignore the cheap room-decorations, but there are a surprising amount of good used lamps that are much cheaper than purchasing new.

[Matt J.]

How acceptable are these? I realize oil lamps were used for generations before electric lamps but...

I'd love to get rid of Rarus's wiring for her nav lights, but worry over how effective / bright they are in comparison... Sure would be nice not to worry about killing the batter for a lengthy night time sail.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Matt J.]

How acceptable are these? I realize oil lamps were used for generations before electric lamps but...

I'd love to get rid of Rarus's wiring for her nav lights, but worry over how effective / bright they are in comparison... Sure would be nice not to worry about killing the batter for a lengthy night time sail.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Matt J.]

How acceptable are these? I realize oil lamps were used for generations before electric lamps but...

I'd love to get rid of Rarus's wiring for her nav lights, but worry over how effective / bright they are in comparison... Sure would be nice not to worry about killing the batter for a lengthy night time sail.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Venchka]

Could you put one of these at the masthead? At 0.5 amps, they are about as low drain as you'll find.

LED Masthead Nav Light (http://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/home.php?cat=249)

From Texas even! ;) Dealer in MD.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 08-02-2005, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Venchka]

Could you put one of these at the masthead? At 0.5 amps, they are about as low drain as you'll find.

LED Masthead Nav Light (http://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/home.php?cat=249)

From Texas even! ;) Dealer in MD.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 08-02-2005, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Venchka]

Could you put one of these at the masthead? At 0.5 amps, they are about as low drain as you'll find.

LED Masthead Nav Light (http://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/home.php?cat=249)

From Texas even! ;) Dealer in MD.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 08-02-2005, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[paladin]

oil lamps are outlawed in most areas...especially around oil refinerys, fuel storage areas and offshore drilling....for several miles out to sea, the cool gases float above the water, and if ignited can travel tremendous distances....I had oil lamps on the boat before tana Mari and got nailed in the Gulf of Mexico......use L.E.D.s much safer and low drain......Matt...buy a cuppa coffee and we'll talk about your problem...

[paladin]

oil lamps are outlawed in most areas...especially around oil refinerys, fuel storage areas and offshore drilling....for several miles out to sea, the cool gases float above the water, and if ignited can travel tremendous distances....I had oil lamps on the boat before tana Mari and got nailed in the Gulf of Mexico......use L.E.D.s much safer and low drain......Matt...buy a cuppa coffee and we'll talk about your problem...

[paladin]

oil lamps are outlawed in most areas...especially around oil refinerys, fuel storage areas and offshore drilling....for several miles out to sea, the cool gases float above the water, and if ignited can travel tremendous distances....I had oil lamps on the boat before tana Mari and got nailed in the Gulf of Mexico......use L.E.D.s much safer and low drain......Matt...buy a cuppa coffee and we'll talk about your problem...

[Matt J.]

chuck,
sounds like a plan. I'm supposed to visit the boatyard one day this week. I'll head your way first. I'll send you an email to see when works for you... the day is not nailed down as is.

Shame about oil lamps being illegal... I don't like wires - wires need batteries - batteries need power - power needs charging source...

[Matt J.]

chuck,
sounds like a plan. I'm supposed to visit the boatyard one day this week. I'll head your way first. I'll send you an email to see when works for you... the day is not nailed down as is.

Shame about oil lamps being illegal... I don't like wires - wires need batteries - batteries need power - power needs charging source...

[Matt J.]

chuck,
sounds like a plan. I'm supposed to visit the boatyard one day this week. I'll head your way first. I'll send you an email to see when works for you... the day is not nailed down as is.

Shame about oil lamps being illegal... I don't like wires - wires need batteries - batteries need power - power needs charging source...

[Seth Wood]

Not to hijack the thread, but ...

Matt, if you end up switching to LEDs will you report your success here? I'm leaning towards using them myself, though I'm a few years off.

[Seth Wood]

Not to hijack the thread, but ...

Matt, if you end up switching to LEDs will you report your success here? I'm leaning towards using them myself, though I'm a few years off.

[Seth Wood]

Not to hijack the thread, but ...

Matt, if you end up switching to LEDs will you report your success here? I'm leaning towards using them myself, though I'm a few years off.

[ssor]

Last summer the Md Nat Resourses guys came along side about an hour after sunset and asked if that anchor light was a lantern. I assured them that it was. I was then told that I was supposed to show an all around white light while at anchor. I replied that it was white and showed all around and was displayed as could best be seen. They told me that they would let it go this time , WHATEVER the hell that was supposed to mean.

[ssor]

Last summer the Md Nat Resourses guys came along side about an hour after sunset and asked if that anchor light was a lantern. I assured them that it was. I was then told that I was supposed to show an all around white light while at anchor. I replied that it was white and showed all around and was displayed as could best be seen. They told me that they would let it go this time , WHATEVER the hell that was supposed to mean.

[ssor]

Last summer the Md Nat Resourses guys came along side about an hour after sunset and asked if that anchor light was a lantern. I assured them that it was. I was then told that I was supposed to show an all around white light while at anchor. I replied that it was white and showed all around and was displayed as could best be seen. They told me that they would let it go this time , WHATEVER the hell that was supposed to mean.

[Bob Cleek]

While oil lamps do not generally meet the present requirements for visibility, I've never heard of their being outlawed for safety reasons. Very interesting report, Paladin. Can you fill in some more detail. It occurs to me that it would make little difference whether a boat carried an oil navigation lamp, a cabin oil lamp, or, for that matter, an open flame on a galley stove or a cigarette in the helmsman's mouth! I haven't heard of this rule on the west coast as yet, but what do I know? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Bob Cleek]

While oil lamps do not generally meet the present requirements for visibility, I've never heard of their being outlawed for safety reasons. Very interesting report, Paladin. Can you fill in some more detail. It occurs to me that it would make little difference whether a boat carried an oil navigation lamp, a cabin oil lamp, or, for that matter, an open flame on a galley stove or a cigarette in the helmsman's mouth! I haven't heard of this rule on the west coast as yet, but what do I know? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Bob Cleek]

While oil lamps do not generally meet the present requirements for visibility, I've never heard of their being outlawed for safety reasons. Very interesting report, Paladin. Can you fill in some more detail. It occurs to me that it would make little difference whether a boat carried an oil navigation lamp, a cabin oil lamp, or, for that matter, an open flame on a galley stove or a cigarette in the helmsman's mouth! I haven't heard of this rule on the west coast as yet, but what do I know? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Meerkat]

This topic is a perennial: comes up every year and every year, someone says "oil lamps are illegal".

Somebody really has got to tell the CG that since their most recent publications say they are legal. In fact, COLREGS say they are legal too.

I can't say that there aren't local exclusions such as Paladin mentions, but they're not published in the CG Regs or COLREGS.

It's also fallacious that oil lamps can't meet current brightness requirements. It just takes a little work.

[Meerkat]

This topic is a perennial: comes up every year and every year, someone says "oil lamps are illegal".

Somebody really has got to tell the CG that since their most recent publications say they are legal. In fact, COLREGS say they are legal too.

I can't say that there aren't local exclusions such as Paladin mentions, but they're not published in the CG Regs or COLREGS.

It's also fallacious that oil lamps can't meet current brightness requirements. It just takes a little work.

[Meerkat]

This topic is a perennial: comes up every year and every year, someone says "oil lamps are illegal".

Somebody really has got to tell the CG that since their most recent publications say they are legal. In fact, COLREGS say they are legal too.

I can't say that there aren't local exclusions such as Paladin mentions, but they're not published in the CG Regs or COLREGS.

It's also fallacious that oil lamps can't meet current brightness requirements. It just takes a little work.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Also- just the year USCG requires that nav lamps be stamped USCG Approved. The CG guy was just in my shop checking on that

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Also- just the year USCG requires that nav lamps be stamped USCG Approved. The CG guy was just in my shop checking on that

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Also- just the year USCG requires that nav lamps be stamped USCG Approved. The CG guy was just in my shop checking on that

[jeffery carson]

I called the Boating Safety Officer at the District 13 Headquarters here in Seattle yesterday. He told me that oil lamps do not currently meet the requirments as none that he knows of are stamped "USCG Approved". I asked him what you do for a boat with no electrical system, and he said "Install USCG Approved electric lights when you add an electrical system." Oil lamps are acceptable as a backup to electric lights as well. When asked about fire hazard around refineries, he said that as far as he knows, it's not an issue.

Toward that end, it seems to me that if Den Haan wanted to go through the process of getting their lamps certified, they should be legal. It also seems to me that if one could demonstrate that they meet the requirements (visible at two miles I believe), then they would be acceptable.

When I asked him about the electric nav lights that I currently have that ARE NOT stamped, approved lights, he said they would be acceptable until such time as I needed to replace them.

The lights I currently have are small, teardrop shaped, cast bronze with a one inch high lens, mounted on the cabin side, less than a foot above the deck. It seems to me that a four inch lens and an oil lamp and proper reflector, mounted on a dorade box on the coachroof is going to be much more visible than what I currently have.

So, I am going to keep my (IMHO) inadequate electric lights that ARE NOT stamped as approved, and add the oil lamps in the dorades. At the very least I can claim an electrical failure on my nav light circuit, and (hopefully) be commended for having backups. In the meantime, I intend to work with the CG Officers and see if there is some way a case-by-case approval can be worked out. Afterall, unstamped oil lamps that can be seen at two miles are better than unstamped electric lights that cannot be seen at two miles.

Jeff

[jeffery carson]

I called the Boating Safety Officer at the District 13 Headquarters here in Seattle yesterday. He told me that oil lamps do not currently meet the requirments as none that he knows of are stamped "USCG Approved". I asked him what you do for a boat with no electrical system, and he said "Install USCG Approved electric lights when you add an electrical system." Oil lamps are acceptable as a backup to electric lights as well. When asked about fire hazard around refineries, he said that as far as he knows, it's not an issue.

Toward that end, it seems to me that if Den Haan wanted to go through the process of getting their lamps certified, they should be legal. It also seems to me that if one could demonstrate that they meet the requirements (visible at two miles I believe), then they would be acceptable.

When I asked him about the electric nav lights that I currently have that ARE NOT stamped, approved lights, he said they would be acceptable until such time as I needed to replace them.

The lights I currently have are small, teardrop shaped, cast bronze with a one inch high lens, mounted on the cabin side, less than a foot above the deck. It seems to me that a four inch lens and an oil lamp and proper reflector, mounted on a dorade box on the coachroof is going to be much more visible than what I currently have.

So, I am going to keep my (IMHO) inadequate electric lights that ARE NOT stamped as approved, and add the oil lamps in the dorades. At the very least I can claim an electrical failure on my nav light circuit, and (hopefully) be commended for having backups. In the meantime, I intend to work with the CG Officers and see if there is some way a case-by-case approval can be worked out. Afterall, unstamped oil lamps that can be seen at two miles are better than unstamped electric lights that cannot be seen at two miles.

Jeff

[jeffery carson]

I called the Boating Safety Officer at the District 13 Headquarters here in Seattle yesterday. He told me that oil lamps do not currently meet the requirments as none that he knows of are stamped "USCG Approved". I asked him what you do for a boat with no electrical system, and he said "Install USCG Approved electric lights when you add an electrical system." Oil lamps are acceptable as a backup to electric lights as well. When asked about fire hazard around refineries, he said that as far as he knows, it's not an issue.

Toward that end, it seems to me that if Den Haan wanted to go through the process of getting their lamps certified, they should be legal. It also seems to me that if one could demonstrate that they meet the requirements (visible at two miles I believe), then they would be acceptable.

When I asked him about the electric nav lights that I currently have that ARE NOT stamped, approved lights, he said they would be acceptable until such time as I needed to replace them.

The lights I currently have are small, teardrop shaped, cast bronze with a one inch high lens, mounted on the cabin side, less than a foot above the deck. It seems to me that a four inch lens and an oil lamp and proper reflector, mounted on a dorade box on the coachroof is going to be much more visible than what I currently have.

So, I am going to keep my (IMHO) inadequate electric lights that ARE NOT stamped as approved, and add the oil lamps in the dorades. At the very least I can claim an electrical failure on my nav light circuit, and (hopefully) be commended for having backups. In the meantime, I intend to work with the CG Officers and see if there is some way a case-by-case approval can be worked out. Afterall, unstamped oil lamps that can be seen at two miles are better than unstamped electric lights that cannot be seen at two miles.

Jeff

[Frank E. Price]

For what it's worth, I would think that although oil lamps may meet the visibility requirements, the requirements are minimal (or less) and if you want running lights that may actually make you visible to shipping in a sea and thus avoid getting run down, you might want much brighter lights. Based on the little I know of LED lights, it seems they would be far more effective and reliable with relatively little battery drain. I like oil lanterns myself, and my anchor light is an oil lantern; but I don't anchor where there is traffic.

Based on personal experience standing shipboard lookout watches, small boats can be virtually invisible to eyeball, and shockingly often to radar. Good luck, and hang in there. Don't go to sleep when there's traffic.

Frank

[Frank E. Price]

For what it's worth, I would think that although oil lamps may meet the visibility requirements, the requirements are minimal (or less) and if you want running lights that may actually make you visible to shipping in a sea and thus avoid getting run down, you might want much brighter lights. Based on the little I know of LED lights, it seems they would be far more effective and reliable with relatively little battery drain. I like oil lanterns myself, and my anchor light is an oil lantern; but I don't anchor where there is traffic.

Based on personal experience standing shipboard lookout watches, small boats can be virtually invisible to eyeball, and shockingly often to radar. Good luck, and hang in there. Don't go to sleep when there's traffic.

Frank

[Frank E. Price]

For what it's worth, I would think that although oil lamps may meet the visibility requirements, the requirements are minimal (or less) and if you want running lights that may actually make you visible to shipping in a sea and thus avoid getting run down, you might want much brighter lights. Based on the little I know of LED lights, it seems they would be far more effective and reliable with relatively little battery drain. I like oil lanterns myself, and my anchor light is an oil lantern; but I don't anchor where there is traffic.

Based on personal experience standing shipboard lookout watches, small boats can be virtually invisible to eyeball, and shockingly often to radar. Good luck, and hang in there. Don't go to sleep when there's traffic.

Frank

[Thad Van Gilder]

I got mine from Classic Marine. They aren't cheap but they work great!!!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

I got mine from Classic Marine. They aren't cheap but they work great!!!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

I got mine from Classic Marine. They aren't cheap but they work great!!!

-Thad

[Don Kurylko]

From the Classic Marine website:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/images_products/183.jpg

"Nothing quite so handsome as oil-burning navigation lights, not to mention the benefits of reduced battery drain while at anchor or on passage. The ones offered here are fully boatworthy, not dodgy imitations aimed more at “Ye Olde Pubbe” market. But are they legal? My understanding is that when the relevant regulations were drawn up covering navigation lights, oil lights were omitted. So therefore oil lights do not contravene current regulations. (This is an argument which I know has been deployed successfully by at least two skippers of MSA registered vessels!). We are checking whether the USCG agrees!"

PS Copper lanterns are preferable to brass for longevity.

[Don Kurylko]

From the Classic Marine website:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/images_products/183.jpg

"Nothing quite so handsome as oil-burning navigation lights, not to mention the benefits of reduced battery drain while at anchor or on passage. The ones offered here are fully boatworthy, not dodgy imitations aimed more at “Ye Olde Pubbe” market. But are they legal? My understanding is that when the relevant regulations were drawn up covering navigation lights, oil lights were omitted. So therefore oil lights do not contravene current regulations. (This is an argument which I know has been deployed successfully by at least two skippers of MSA registered vessels!). We are checking whether the USCG agrees!"

PS Copper lanterns are preferable to brass for longevity.

[Don Kurylko]

From the Classic Marine website:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/images_products/183.jpg

"Nothing quite so handsome as oil-burning navigation lights, not to mention the benefits of reduced battery drain while at anchor or on passage. The ones offered here are fully boatworthy, not dodgy imitations aimed more at “Ye Olde Pubbe” market. But are they legal? My understanding is that when the relevant regulations were drawn up covering navigation lights, oil lights were omitted. So therefore oil lights do not contravene current regulations. (This is an argument which I know has been deployed successfully by at least two skippers of MSA registered vessels!). We are checking whether the USCG agrees!"

PS Copper lanterns are preferable to brass for longevity.

[Gold Rock]

Beat me to the punch. classicmarine.co.uk is where I got my lights. Copper was the choice over brass, natch. (brass has a very high percentage of zinc; think "zincs",... right). As affordable as anywhere I found, shipping was lickety split, service was great, and they can supply all spares as well (chimneys, wicks, burners, etc..). My lights are Den Haan. Very nice quality. They come with internal chimneys and have proven reliable in winds up to 25kts. so far. I got pt/stb runners, a white stern light and a white all around lamp for anchoring and general illumination. I'm well pleased.
I have no qualms using oil lamps, nor do I believe they are an inherent legal liability. I interperet existing laws as allowing them. Do they meet visibility requirements? I don't know, however, considering some of the tiny little penlight sized electric lights so prevalent on many production boats, and which have the USCG stamp on them, I'd wager they do. Besides the proof is in the pudding. Last summer I lit the whole show up late one night when I was at anchor. I rowed off what must have been a good mile and a half and had no trouble picking my vessel out even against the clutter of the well lit residential shoreline.

[Gold Rock]

Beat me to the punch. classicmarine.co.uk is where I got my lights. Copper was the choice over brass, natch. (brass has a very high percentage of zinc; think "zincs",... right). As affordable as anywhere I found, shipping was lickety split, service was great, and they can supply all spares as well (chimneys, wicks, burners, etc..). My lights are Den Haan. Very nice quality. They come with internal chimneys and have proven reliable in winds up to 25kts. so far. I got pt/stb runners, a white stern light and a white all around lamp for anchoring and general illumination. I'm well pleased.
I have no qualms using oil lamps, nor do I believe they are an inherent legal liability. I interperet existing laws as allowing them. Do they meet visibility requirements? I don't know, however, considering some of the tiny little penlight sized electric lights so prevalent on many production boats, and which have the USCG stamp on them, I'd wager they do. Besides the proof is in the pudding. Last summer I lit the whole show up late one night when I was at anchor. I rowed off what must have been a good mile and a half and had no trouble picking my vessel out even against the clutter of the well lit residential shoreline.

[Gold Rock]

Beat me to the punch. classicmarine.co.uk is where I got my lights. Copper was the choice over brass, natch. (brass has a very high percentage of zinc; think "zincs",... right). As affordable as anywhere I found, shipping was lickety split, service was great, and they can supply all spares as well (chimneys, wicks, burners, etc..). My lights are Den Haan. Very nice quality. They come with internal chimneys and have proven reliable in winds up to 25kts. so far. I got pt/stb runners, a white stern light and a white all around lamp for anchoring and general illumination. I'm well pleased.
I have no qualms using oil lamps, nor do I believe they are an inherent legal liability. I interperet existing laws as allowing them. Do they meet visibility requirements? I don't know, however, considering some of the tiny little penlight sized electric lights so prevalent on many production boats, and which have the USCG stamp on them, I'd wager they do. Besides the proof is in the pudding. Last summer I lit the whole show up late one night when I was at anchor. I rowed off what must have been a good mile and a half and had no trouble picking my vessel out even against the clutter of the well lit residential shoreline.

[Don Kurylko]

Thanks for the information Gold Rock. I presume you are located in the US, so I’m curious to know what your import costs were, including shipping/mailing, duty, taxes, etc. I’m intending on getting these very same lamps for my new boat and have been wondering what it would cost to get them over to North America.

Cheers,
Don

[Don Kurylko]

Thanks for the information Gold Rock. I presume you are located in the US, so I’m curious to know what your import costs were, including shipping/mailing, duty, taxes, etc. I’m intending on getting these very same lamps for my new boat and have been wondering what it would cost to get them over to North America.

Cheers,
Don

[Don Kurylko]

Thanks for the information Gold Rock. I presume you are located in the US, so I’m curious to know what your import costs were, including shipping/mailing, duty, taxes, etc. I’m intending on getting these very same lamps for my new boat and have been wondering what it would cost to get them over to North America.

Cheers,
Don

[Meerkat]

Den Haan in the US: http://www.oillampman.com/denhaan/denhaan.htm

[Meerkat]

Den Haan in the US: http://www.oillampman.com/denhaan/denhaan.htm

[Meerkat]

Den Haan in the US: http://www.oillampman.com/denhaan/denhaan.htm