Mounted Split Babbitt Bearing Source

[Terry Etapa]

I'm looking for a replacement for the babbitt split bearing used on my propeller shaft. I don't need the cast iron portion, just the inner bearing. Here is a link to a similar bearing (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=35424993&PMCTLG=00)

Anyone know of a source?

[ 11-15-2005, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Terry Etapa ]

[Terry Etapa]

I'm looking for a replacement for the babbitt split bearing used on my propeller shaft. I don't need the cast iron portion, just the inner bearing. Here is a link to a similar bearing (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=35424993&PMCTLG=00)

Anyone know of a source?

[ 11-15-2005, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Terry Etapa ]

[Terry Etapa]

I'm looking for a replacement for the babbitt split bearing used on my propeller shaft. I don't need the cast iron portion, just the inner bearing. Here is a link to a similar bearing (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=35424993&PMCTLG=00)

Anyone know of a source?

[ 11-15-2005, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Terry Etapa ]

[Dave Fleming]

You can do it yourself.
Do a Google search for 'pouring babbit bearings' and also check the back index of Fine Woodworking Magazine. FWW ran an article or two on how to pour babbit bearings in the past.

[Stiletto]

If you have any vintage car clubs nearby, they may have a member or two who has done it.

[Stiletto]

If you have any vintage car clubs nearby, they may have a member or two who has done it.

[Stiletto]

If you have any vintage car clubs nearby, they may have a member or two who has done it.

[Nicholas Carey]

Hardwick's in Seattle (U-district, on Roosevelt @ 42nd or thereabouts) carries babbit scrapers, I believe.

Not sure where you get babbit metal.

[Nicholas Carey]

Hardwick's in Seattle (U-district, on Roosevelt @ 42nd or thereabouts) carries babbit scrapers, I believe.

Not sure where you get babbit metal.

[Nicholas Carey]

Hardwick's in Seattle (U-district, on Roosevelt @ 42nd or thereabouts) carries babbit scrapers, I believe.

Not sure where you get babbit metal.

[mmd]

McMaster-Carr carries babbit metal in small ingots, but ya gotta know what alloy you need.

[mmd]

McMaster-Carr carries babbit metal in small ingots, but ya gotta know what alloy you need.

[mmd]

McMaster-Carr carries babbit metal in small ingots, but ya gotta know what alloy you need.

[BirchBark]

Terry,

You might have a look here: http://www.owwm.com/FAQ/Default.asp
There is a whole section on babbit bearings. There's suppliers there also.

Chris

[BirchBark]

Terry,

You might have a look here: http://www.owwm.com/FAQ/Default.asp
There is a whole section on babbit bearings. There's suppliers there also.

Chris

[BirchBark]

Terry,

You might have a look here: http://www.owwm.com/FAQ/Default.asp
There is a whole section on babbit bearings. There's suppliers there also.

Chris

[Terry Etapa]

Well, it looks like I might need to learn how to pour babbitt bearing...

Before I jump into it, I want to know if my shaft is too worn to use an off the shelf bearing. I can get standard tolerances in Machinerys Handbook. However, are tolerances different for a propeller shaft? If so, where do I get those tolerances?

Here is approximately what I have:

1.75 inch steel shaft

15 feet long

2 intermediate bearings between transmission & cutless bearing

max RPM 750

[ 11-16-2005, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Terry Etapa ]

[Terry Etapa]

Well, it looks like I might need to learn how to pour babbitt bearing...

Before I jump into it, I want to know if my shaft is too worn to use an off the shelf bearing. I can get standard tolerances in Machinerys Handbook. However, are tolerances different for a propeller shaft? If so, where do I get those tolerances?

Here is approximately what I have:

1.75 inch steel shaft

15 feet long

2 intermediate bearings between transmission & cutless bearing

max RPM 750

[ 11-16-2005, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Terry Etapa ]

[Terry Etapa]

Well, it looks like I might need to learn how to pour babbitt bearing...

Before I jump into it, I want to know if my shaft is too worn to use an off the shelf bearing. I can get standard tolerances in Machinerys Handbook. However, are tolerances different for a propeller shaft? If so, where do I get those tolerances?

Here is approximately what I have:

1.75 inch steel shaft

15 feet long

2 intermediate bearings between transmission & cutless bearing

max RPM 750

[ 11-16-2005, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Terry Etapa ]

[Canoeyawl]

If you are talking about the intermediate bearings and they are the split type similar to the one shown from MSC, these can be “adjusted” to a working tolerance by removing shims (sometimes!) or by filing the caps to fit a bit closer. This was good enough for spindles on early lathes, crankshaft bearings etc. If they are not to far gone you might see about taking them up (adjusting). You will have to come up with a way to gauge the clearance. I recommend a dial indicator and a small pry bar to lift the shaft. Usually the bearings can be made to fit the worn shaft nicely, often with little trouble. The clearance will be determined by the lubricant.

[Canoeyawl]

If you are talking about the intermediate bearings and they are the split type similar to the one shown from MSC, these can be “adjusted” to a working tolerance by removing shims (sometimes!) or by filing the caps to fit a bit closer. This was good enough for spindles on early lathes, crankshaft bearings etc. If they are not to far gone you might see about taking them up (adjusting). You will have to come up with a way to gauge the clearance. I recommend a dial indicator and a small pry bar to lift the shaft. Usually the bearings can be made to fit the worn shaft nicely, often with little trouble. The clearance will be determined by the lubricant.

[Canoeyawl]

If you are talking about the intermediate bearings and they are the split type similar to the one shown from MSC, these can be “adjusted” to a working tolerance by removing shims (sometimes!) or by filing the caps to fit a bit closer. This was good enough for spindles on early lathes, crankshaft bearings etc. If they are not to far gone you might see about taking them up (adjusting). You will have to come up with a way to gauge the clearance. I recommend a dial indicator and a small pry bar to lift the shaft. Usually the bearings can be made to fit the worn shaft nicely, often with little trouble. The clearance will be determined by the lubricant.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Terry Etapa:
I'm looking for a replacement for the babbitt split bearing used on my propeller shaft. I don't need the cast iron portion, just the inner bearing. Here is a link to a similar bearing (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=35424993&PMCTLG=00)

Anyone know of a source?If these brgs are inboard and not easily accesed, I would change to a bearing material that is much more modern.

Several reasons come to mind, the first being that pouring a babbitt brg is not your skill and doing it in place is a huge pain. If you have any scoring on the shaft now, that must be corrected before any brg is poured. Do you lube this brg regulary?

Replacing it with a modern brg will be much easier and last much longer.

Take a look here...
Gatke
www.scanpac.com (http://www.scanpac.com)

[ 11-16-2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Terry Etapa:
I'm looking for a replacement for the babbitt split bearing used on my propeller shaft. I don't need the cast iron portion, just the inner bearing. Here is a link to a similar bearing (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=35424993&PMCTLG=00)

Anyone know of a source?If these brgs are inboard and not easily accesed, I would change to a bearing material that is much more modern.

Several reasons come to mind, the first being that pouring a babbitt brg is not your skill and doing it in place is a huge pain. If you have any scoring on the shaft now, that must be corrected before any brg is poured. Do you lube this brg regulary?

Replacing it with a modern brg will be much easier and last much longer.

Take a look here...
Gatke
www.scanpac.com (http://www.scanpac.com)

[ 11-16-2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Terry Etapa:
I'm looking for a replacement for the babbitt split bearing used on my propeller shaft. I don't need the cast iron portion, just the inner bearing. Here is a link to a similar bearing (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=35424993&PMCTLG=00)

Anyone know of a source?If these brgs are inboard and not easily accesed, I would change to a bearing material that is much more modern.

Several reasons come to mind, the first being that pouring a babbitt brg is not your skill and doing it in place is a huge pain. If you have any scoring on the shaft now, that must be corrected before any brg is poured. Do you lube this brg regulary?

Replacing it with a modern brg will be much easier and last much longer.

Take a look here...
Gatke
www.scanpac.com (http://www.scanpac.com)

[ 11-16-2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Terry Etapa]

I originally wanted bronze split journal bearings. However, my shaft is worn to 1.720 in. When I looked in Machinery's Handbook, the loosest fit they had was an RC9. That works out to something like 0.008 in - 0.018 in clearance between hole and shaft. If I buy an off the shelf 1.750 in bearing, I'm looking at 0.030 in clearance.

I have access to a machinist. I guess I could get a bronze split bushing made to fit. I looked at ScanPac. My guess is they only offer standard sizes.

Are there other options I'm not seeing?

[Terry Etapa]

I originally wanted bronze split journal bearings. However, my shaft is worn to 1.720 in. When I looked in Machinery's Handbook, the loosest fit they had was an RC9. That works out to something like 0.008 in - 0.018 in clearance between hole and shaft. If I buy an off the shelf 1.750 in bearing, I'm looking at 0.030 in clearance.

I have access to a machinist. I guess I could get a bronze split bushing made to fit. I looked at ScanPac. My guess is they only offer standard sizes.

Are there other options I'm not seeing?

[Terry Etapa]

I originally wanted bronze split journal bearings. However, my shaft is worn to 1.720 in. When I looked in Machinery's Handbook, the loosest fit they had was an RC9. That works out to something like 0.008 in - 0.018 in clearance between hole and shaft. If I buy an off the shelf 1.750 in bearing, I'm looking at 0.030 in clearance.

I have access to a machinist. I guess I could get a bronze split bushing made to fit. I looked at ScanPac. My guess is they only offer standard sizes.

Are there other options I'm not seeing?

[Gary E]

To have a shaft that requires those 2 support brgs it must be a long one, thus EXPENSIVE.

Ok, so I re read the thread, and yes 1 3/4 Dia 15 ft is EXPENSIVE..

I would consider removal, flame spray to build up the surface to above std size, then re grind to std.

THEN use the newer brg material. Talk to your machinist friend, he will know what this is.

I suppose that it's possible to grind the worn area undersize and then make a brg to fit that undercut size, but I would not do that.

Another idea is to make a split brg that is larger than shaft Dia ...in the area of 2 1/2 Dia and longer than the worn shaft area then mount that on the shaft and then use a std size brg on that but that will most likely cost more than flame spraying / grinding.

[ 11-16-2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Gary E]

To have a shaft that requires those 2 support brgs it must be a long one, thus EXPENSIVE.

Ok, so I re read the thread, and yes 1 3/4 Dia 15 ft is EXPENSIVE..

I would consider removal, flame spray to build up the surface to above std size, then re grind to std.

THEN use the newer brg material. Talk to your machinist friend, he will know what this is.

I suppose that it's possible to grind the worn area undersize and then make a brg to fit that undercut size, but I would not do that.

Another idea is to make a split brg that is larger than shaft Dia ...in the area of 2 1/2 Dia and longer than the worn shaft area then mount that on the shaft and then use a std size brg on that but that will most likely cost more than flame spraying / grinding.

[ 11-16-2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Gary E]

To have a shaft that requires those 2 support brgs it must be a long one, thus EXPENSIVE.

Ok, so I re read the thread, and yes 1 3/4 Dia 15 ft is EXPENSIVE..

I would consider removal, flame spray to build up the surface to above std size, then re grind to std.

THEN use the newer brg material. Talk to your machinist friend, he will know what this is.

I suppose that it's possible to grind the worn area undersize and then make a brg to fit that undercut size, but I would not do that.

Another idea is to make a split brg that is larger than shaft Dia ...in the area of 2 1/2 Dia and longer than the worn shaft area then mount that on the shaft and then use a std size brg on that but that will most likely cost more than flame spraying / grinding.

[ 11-16-2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

[Canoeyawl]

There are always other options, LOL - here are a couple more…one is if the split shells remove from the existing mount a brass or stainless shim can be placed behind the bearing shells to reduce the clearance, you may have to file the edges of the shells to allow them to move closer together. With a RPM of only 750 this would be acceptable practice. The shaft “fits” the shells perfectly now and anything else is going to require either work on the shaft or a new shaft. They are just steel so the cost will not be as high as a fancy alloy or bronze. Another option may be to just move the support bearing ford or aft a bit to a clean place on the shaft and install a new bearing assy. The use of the boat may dictate the repair. If the vessel is a working vessel earning her keep, install new parts. If it is a pleasure vessel with moderate use another option may be fine. Talk to your machinist, he will be familiar with all the shimming methods. This stuff was routine 50 years ago, now it seems that the only repair is to replace parts!
A note about welding on long shafting; they have to be very straight to run without vibration. Straightening to propeller shaft specs after welding/heating may be cost prohibitive or even impossible.

[Canoeyawl]

There are always other options, LOL - here are a couple more…one is if the split shells remove from the existing mount a brass or stainless shim can be placed behind the bearing shells to reduce the clearance, you may have to file the edges of the shells to allow them to move closer together. With a RPM of only 750 this would be acceptable practice. The shaft “fits” the shells perfectly now and anything else is going to require either work on the shaft or a new shaft. They are just steel so the cost will not be as high as a fancy alloy or bronze. Another option may be to just move the support bearing ford or aft a bit to a clean place on the shaft and install a new bearing assy. The use of the boat may dictate the repair. If the vessel is a working vessel earning her keep, install new parts. If it is a pleasure vessel with moderate use another option may be fine. Talk to your machinist, he will be familiar with all the shimming methods. This stuff was routine 50 years ago, now it seems that the only repair is to replace parts!
A note about welding on long shafting; they have to be very straight to run without vibration. Straightening to propeller shaft specs after welding/heating may be cost prohibitive or even impossible.

[Canoeyawl]

There are always other options, LOL - here are a couple more…one is if the split shells remove from the existing mount a brass or stainless shim can be placed behind the bearing shells to reduce the clearance, you may have to file the edges of the shells to allow them to move closer together. With a RPM of only 750 this would be acceptable practice. The shaft “fits” the shells perfectly now and anything else is going to require either work on the shaft or a new shaft. They are just steel so the cost will not be as high as a fancy alloy or bronze. Another option may be to just move the support bearing ford or aft a bit to a clean place on the shaft and install a new bearing assy. The use of the boat may dictate the repair. If the vessel is a working vessel earning her keep, install new parts. If it is a pleasure vessel with moderate use another option may be fine. Talk to your machinist, he will be familiar with all the shimming methods. This stuff was routine 50 years ago, now it seems that the only repair is to replace parts!
A note about welding on long shafting; they have to be very straight to run without vibration. Straightening to propeller shaft specs after welding/heating may be cost prohibitive or even impossible.

[Gary E]

As for shimming and filing etc...that's method for hackers. you want crap job, do that.

Plain bearings require a clearance of 0.0015/in of Dia..
So this 1.750 shaft would be running in a Brg with inside dia of 1.752/1.753 Dia. That bearing is now worn larger and no doubt egg shaped and the the shaft is smaller so you have plenty of slop to fix. Shimming and filing will do nothing to fix it.

Do it right or dont do it at all.

[Gary E]

As for shimming and filing etc...that's method for hackers. you want crap job, do that.

Plain bearings require a clearance of 0.0015/in of Dia..
So this 1.750 shaft would be running in a Brg with inside dia of 1.752/1.753 Dia. That bearing is now worn larger and no doubt egg shaped and the the shaft is smaller so you have plenty of slop to fix. Shimming and filing will do nothing to fix it.

Do it right or dont do it at all.

[Gary E]

As for shimming and filing etc...that's method for hackers. you want crap job, do that.

Plain bearings require a clearance of 0.0015/in of Dia..
So this 1.750 shaft would be running in a Brg with inside dia of 1.752/1.753 Dia. That bearing is now worn larger and no doubt egg shaped and the the shaft is smaller so you have plenty of slop to fix. Shimming and filing will do nothing to fix it.

Do it right or dont do it at all.

[BirchBark]

Interesting problem. So, from my armchair perspective here's my take on your options.

1. If you are going to use the existing bearing housing.
a. Pour new babbit bearings. You probably need to remove the bearing housings from the boat. Machine a matching, short length of shaft to the same size as as the worn prop shaft. Use that to pour new babbit metal. Scrape the babbit to fit.
b. Machine new bronze bearings to fit the shaft and the housing. You probably need to think about oil journals in the bearing. The orig. babbit probably was keyed into the housings to prevent the bearing from spinning. You might need to weld on new tabs and shape them to fit. (Before boring the ID?)
c. Use some new type of bearing material. I don't have an opinion other than you may still run into some of the same problems above.

2. Use new bearings and housings;If you can find the right size. Then you probably need to rework the base that the bearing is mounted to in order to keep it in line.

3. KEEP IT OILED! ;?)

Good Luck,
Chris

[ 11-16-2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: BirchBark ]

[BirchBark]

Interesting problem. So, from my armchair perspective here's my take on your options.

1. If you are going to use the existing bearing housing.
a. Pour new babbit bearings. You probably need to remove the bearing housings from the boat. Machine a matching, short length of shaft to the same size as as the worn prop shaft. Use that to pour new babbit metal. Scrape the babbit to fit.
b. Machine new bronze bearings to fit the shaft and the housing. You probably need to think about oil journals in the bearing. The orig. babbit probably was keyed into the housings to prevent the bearing from spinning. You might need to weld on new tabs and shape them to fit. (Before boring the ID?)
c. Use some new type of bearing material. I don't have an opinion other than you may still run into some of the same problems above.

2. Use new bearings and housings;If you can find the right size. Then you probably need to rework the base that the bearing is mounted to in order to keep it in line.

3. KEEP IT OILED! ;?)

Good Luck,
Chris

[ 11-16-2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: BirchBark ]

[BirchBark]

Interesting problem. So, from my armchair perspective here's my take on your options.

1. If you are going to use the existing bearing housing.
a. Pour new babbit bearings. You probably need to remove the bearing housings from the boat. Machine a matching, short length of shaft to the same size as as the worn prop shaft. Use that to pour new babbit metal. Scrape the babbit to fit.
b. Machine new bronze bearings to fit the shaft and the housing. You probably need to think about oil journals in the bearing. The orig. babbit probably was keyed into the housings to prevent the bearing from spinning. You might need to weld on new tabs and shape them to fit. (Before boring the ID?)
c. Use some new type of bearing material. I don't have an opinion other than you may still run into some of the same problems above.

2. Use new bearings and housings;If you can find the right size. Then you probably need to rework the base that the bearing is mounted to in order to keep it in line.

3. KEEP IT OILED! ;?)

Good Luck,
Chris

[ 11-16-2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: BirchBark ]

[Canoeyawl]

If you decide to repour the Babbitt bearings you will find that a FILE and SHIMS are required to do the job…LOL

[Canoeyawl]

If you decide to repour the Babbitt bearings you will find that a FILE and SHIMS are required to do the job…LOL

[Canoeyawl]

If you decide to repour the Babbitt bearings you will find that a FILE and SHIMS are required to do the job…LOL

[Gary E]

Canoeyawl,
What do you sugest he do with the scoored and undersize shaft?

[Gary E]

Canoeyawl,
What do you sugest he do with the scoored and undersize shaft?

[Gary E]

Canoeyawl,
What do you sugest he do with the scoored and undersize shaft?

[Canoeyawl]

What to do with the shaft…check it for out of round, it will be ok if it is within a few thousandths, then polish it and pour a new bearing (assuming the Babbitt on the old bearing is shot). The bearing does not care what size the shaft is; it just has to fit within a working tolerance. Babbitt bearings wear and need a device to take them up. Normally this is done with shimming, scraping, filing etc. A few grooves or scores will not matter as long as the bearing fits. It may be simpler if the bearing could be relocated a few inches north or south and run on an unused portion of the shaft.

[Canoeyawl]

What to do with the shaft…check it for out of round, it will be ok if it is within a few thousandths, then polish it and pour a new bearing (assuming the Babbitt on the old bearing is shot). The bearing does not care what size the shaft is; it just has to fit within a working tolerance. Babbitt bearings wear and need a device to take them up. Normally this is done with shimming, scraping, filing etc. A few grooves or scores will not matter as long as the bearing fits. It may be simpler if the bearing could be relocated a few inches north or south and run on an unused portion of the shaft.

[Canoeyawl]

What to do with the shaft…check it for out of round, it will be ok if it is within a few thousandths, then polish it and pour a new bearing (assuming the Babbitt on the old bearing is shot). The bearing does not care what size the shaft is; it just has to fit within a working tolerance. Babbitt bearings wear and need a device to take them up. Normally this is done with shimming, scraping, filing etc. A few grooves or scores will not matter as long as the bearing fits. It may be simpler if the bearing could be relocated a few inches north or south and run on an unused portion of the shaft.

[Terry Etapa]

After way too long, I got the bearing poured and installed. I ran the boat at the dock for about 30 minutes on Saturday. One ran at about 110 deg F, the other 120 deg F. Do these temperatures sound about right??

[Canoeyawl]

That temperature does not seem excessive in fact it seems just right, warm but not hot. The bearings will wear in a bit to fit the shaft and as they do, the temps should drop a bit. Just feel them by hand - if they get to hot to touch you will have to loosen the clearance a bit until they wear in (add a .001 or .002 shim between the flats). Use plenty of lubricant until they are set.

[Phillip Allen]

After way too long, I got the bearing poured and installed. I ran the boat at the dock for about 30 minutes on Saturday. One ran at about 110 deg F, the other 120 deg F. Do these temperatures sound about right??

It would be more telling if you could measure the temp difference across the bearing