View Full Version : installing an autopilot for tiller
Kannon Bosatsu
12-27-2002, 12:05 PM
I am in the process of overhauling my 34' yawl (that is replacing keel, new frames, replanking, new diesal tank etc. etc.) and while I'm at it I'd like to install an autopilot for my long nights soloing... Do I have to install one of those ugly things that clamp onto the tiller or might get something that fits onto the rudder post below decks. I just need a pilot that will hold course long enough for me to step below as I go back and forth up the east coast... If I were doing any serious crossings I would have to get a Aries or something. But I want to avoid that so it doesn't crowd up the stern and if I want to sell her later on...
Kannon Bosatsu
12-27-2002, 12:05 PM
I am in the process of overhauling my 34' yawl (that is replacing keel, new frames, replanking, new diesal tank etc. etc.) and while I'm at it I'd like to install an autopilot for my long nights soloing... Do I have to install one of those ugly things that clamp onto the tiller or might get something that fits onto the rudder post below decks. I just need a pilot that will hold course long enough for me to step below as I go back and forth up the east coast... If I were doing any serious crossings I would have to get a Aries or something. But I want to avoid that so it doesn't crowd up the stern and if I want to sell her later on...
Kannon Bosatsu
12-27-2002, 12:05 PM
I am in the process of overhauling my 34' yawl (that is replacing keel, new frames, replanking, new diesal tank etc. etc.) and while I'm at it I'd like to install an autopilot for my long nights soloing... Do I have to install one of those ugly things that clamp onto the tiller or might get something that fits onto the rudder post below decks. I just need a pilot that will hold course long enough for me to step below as I go back and forth up the east coast... If I were doing any serious crossings I would have to get a Aries or something. But I want to avoid that so it doesn't crowd up the stern and if I want to sell her later on...
ishmael
12-27-2002, 02:06 PM
Kannon,
How long are you planning to duck below for? Most long keeled boats, if the rig is well balanced, tend to themselves quite well for short periods of time. Have you experimented so, or with headsail sheet to tiller arrangements? Not feasible if the sheets are led to winches. Hmm.
I don't know how other than cockpit mounted, tiller auto-pilots work, but they do with wheel steering, so one would think it would be possible. I think I'd be tempted to look for simpler arrangements though.
You probably don't want to be napping, inshore and alone, anyway, eh? smile.gif
Someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
Jack
ishmael
12-27-2002, 02:06 PM
Kannon,
How long are you planning to duck below for? Most long keeled boats, if the rig is well balanced, tend to themselves quite well for short periods of time. Have you experimented so, or with headsail sheet to tiller arrangements? Not feasible if the sheets are led to winches. Hmm.
I don't know how other than cockpit mounted, tiller auto-pilots work, but they do with wheel steering, so one would think it would be possible. I think I'd be tempted to look for simpler arrangements though.
You probably don't want to be napping, inshore and alone, anyway, eh? smile.gif
Someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
Jack
ishmael
12-27-2002, 02:06 PM
Kannon,
How long are you planning to duck below for? Most long keeled boats, if the rig is well balanced, tend to themselves quite well for short periods of time. Have you experimented so, or with headsail sheet to tiller arrangements? Not feasible if the sheets are led to winches. Hmm.
I don't know how other than cockpit mounted, tiller auto-pilots work, but they do with wheel steering, so one would think it would be possible. I think I'd be tempted to look for simpler arrangements though.
You probably don't want to be napping, inshore and alone, anyway, eh? smile.gif
Someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
Jack
ishmael
12-27-2002, 06:33 PM
Hey, how 'bout one of you big boat sailors chiming in here? Where's Paladin?, though he's a deep water man.
Where's Ian Mccolgin? He surely has an opinion.
Just tryin' to keep it afloat Kannon. smile.gif
ishmael
12-27-2002, 06:33 PM
Hey, how 'bout one of you big boat sailors chiming in here? Where's Paladin?, though he's a deep water man.
Where's Ian Mccolgin? He surely has an opinion.
Just tryin' to keep it afloat Kannon. smile.gif
ishmael
12-27-2002, 06:33 PM
Hey, how 'bout one of you big boat sailors chiming in here? Where's Paladin?, though he's a deep water man.
Where's Ian Mccolgin? He surely has an opinion.
Just tryin' to keep it afloat Kannon. smile.gif
JimConlin
12-27-2002, 09:27 PM
I've used an Autohelm ST4000. For the boat it was on, it worked well.
I will get one for the current project.
JimConlin
12-27-2002, 09:27 PM
I've used an Autohelm ST4000. For the boat it was on, it worked well.
I will get one for the current project.
JimConlin
12-27-2002, 09:27 PM
I've used an Autohelm ST4000. For the boat it was on, it worked well.
I will get one for the current project.
This past summer I had to do a 500 mile singlehanded passage. I brought along an autohelm tiller type autopilot to take over during any dead air motoring when the windvane wouldn't work. I didn't want to drill any holes or mount any temporary hardware in the teak coaming, so I cobbled together a quickie mounting bracket out of some scrap 2x4 that slipped snugly over the coaming. I mounted the autopilot to that and then found a bronze woodscrew that had a shank dia that would accept the autopilot swivel fitting (tiller end). That woodscrew went into the underside of the tiller at an appropriate location (about 1/2 way down the length of the tiller) and then sawed the head of the screw off so the swivel fitting can slip on and off easily. That woodscrew can be easily removed and plugged, and is the only evidence remaining.
Wired it to an accessory plug that fitted the cigarette type socket and off we went. It all stowed easily and set up fast. It was my first time using one, and I could kick myself for not getting one ages ago. I was sceptical about it's strength and response time, but it handled our boat easily (30' LOA, 10000lbs disp, full keel). For me, it was great to have for grabbing some quickie grub and for getting through some long calms.
Best of luck.
This past summer I had to do a 500 mile singlehanded passage. I brought along an autohelm tiller type autopilot to take over during any dead air motoring when the windvane wouldn't work. I didn't want to drill any holes or mount any temporary hardware in the teak coaming, so I cobbled together a quickie mounting bracket out of some scrap 2x4 that slipped snugly over the coaming. I mounted the autopilot to that and then found a bronze woodscrew that had a shank dia that would accept the autopilot swivel fitting (tiller end). That woodscrew went into the underside of the tiller at an appropriate location (about 1/2 way down the length of the tiller) and then sawed the head of the screw off so the swivel fitting can slip on and off easily. That woodscrew can be easily removed and plugged, and is the only evidence remaining.
Wired it to an accessory plug that fitted the cigarette type socket and off we went. It all stowed easily and set up fast. It was my first time using one, and I could kick myself for not getting one ages ago. I was sceptical about it's strength and response time, but it handled our boat easily (30' LOA, 10000lbs disp, full keel). For me, it was great to have for grabbing some quickie grub and for getting through some long calms.
Best of luck.
This past summer I had to do a 500 mile singlehanded passage. I brought along an autohelm tiller type autopilot to take over during any dead air motoring when the windvane wouldn't work. I didn't want to drill any holes or mount any temporary hardware in the teak coaming, so I cobbled together a quickie mounting bracket out of some scrap 2x4 that slipped snugly over the coaming. I mounted the autopilot to that and then found a bronze woodscrew that had a shank dia that would accept the autopilot swivel fitting (tiller end). That woodscrew went into the underside of the tiller at an appropriate location (about 1/2 way down the length of the tiller) and then sawed the head of the screw off so the swivel fitting can slip on and off easily. That woodscrew can be easily removed and plugged, and is the only evidence remaining.
Wired it to an accessory plug that fitted the cigarette type socket and off we went. It all stowed easily and set up fast. It was my first time using one, and I could kick myself for not getting one ages ago. I was sceptical about it's strength and response time, but it handled our boat easily (30' LOA, 10000lbs disp, full keel). For me, it was great to have for grabbing some quickie grub and for getting through some long calms.
Best of luck.
Gary Bergman
12-28-2002, 01:50 AM
I have a sailpilot 5000 ST from raytheon, under deck. Had to get a rudder shaft arm to receive the end of the arm from edson. all out of the way,in my Herreshoff ketch. 1000 lbs. thrust.Love it.
Gary Bergman
12-28-2002, 01:50 AM
I have a sailpilot 5000 ST from raytheon, under deck. Had to get a rudder shaft arm to receive the end of the arm from edson. all out of the way,in my Herreshoff ketch. 1000 lbs. thrust.Love it.
Gary Bergman
12-28-2002, 01:50 AM
I have a sailpilot 5000 ST from raytheon, under deck. Had to get a rudder shaft arm to receive the end of the arm from edson. all out of the way,in my Herreshoff ketch. 1000 lbs. thrust.Love it.
Kannon Bosatsu
12-28-2002, 02:02 AM
Sorry Gary, Can you explain that a little more fully. It seems what I want, I think. Im looking for something that will clamp on to the rudder shaft under deck, away from the cokpit, thus preserving that classic look...
Kannon Bosatsu
12-28-2002, 02:02 AM
Sorry Gary, Can you explain that a little more fully. It seems what I want, I think. Im looking for something that will clamp on to the rudder shaft under deck, away from the cokpit, thus preserving that classic look...
Kannon Bosatsu
12-28-2002, 02:02 AM
Sorry Gary, Can you explain that a little more fully. It seems what I want, I think. Im looking for something that will clamp on to the rudder shaft under deck, away from the cokpit, thus preserving that classic look...
Bill Dodson
12-28-2002, 11:41 AM
Our 35 ft sloop has wheel steering, and the autopilot mounts on the pedestal. I just wanted to say how nice it is to have an autopilot for motoring up and down the Chesapeake, or even for just a few minutes' relief at the helm under sail.
Bill Dodson
12-28-2002, 11:41 AM
Our 35 ft sloop has wheel steering, and the autopilot mounts on the pedestal. I just wanted to say how nice it is to have an autopilot for motoring up and down the Chesapeake, or even for just a few minutes' relief at the helm under sail.
Bill Dodson
12-28-2002, 11:41 AM
Our 35 ft sloop has wheel steering, and the autopilot mounts on the pedestal. I just wanted to say how nice it is to have an autopilot for motoring up and down the Chesapeake, or even for just a few minutes' relief at the helm under sail.
Meerkat
12-29-2002, 05:05 AM
It seems to me that if you're going to try to put an autopilot directly on the rudder post, you're going to have to install a steering quadrant for the necessary leverage (and end up with a fair-sized and ugly hole through the transom if you have an externally hung rudder).
I saw an interesting trick recently: one of the tiller style autohelms was mounted below decks and the steering arm was attached to a ring in continuous loop (so it was push/pull) rope and pully system and thence to the tiller. One went on autopilot simply by putting a loop over the tiller.
Meerkat
12-29-2002, 05:05 AM
It seems to me that if you're going to try to put an autopilot directly on the rudder post, you're going to have to install a steering quadrant for the necessary leverage (and end up with a fair-sized and ugly hole through the transom if you have an externally hung rudder).
I saw an interesting trick recently: one of the tiller style autohelms was mounted below decks and the steering arm was attached to a ring in continuous loop (so it was push/pull) rope and pully system and thence to the tiller. One went on autopilot simply by putting a loop over the tiller.
Meerkat
12-29-2002, 05:05 AM
It seems to me that if you're going to try to put an autopilot directly on the rudder post, you're going to have to install a steering quadrant for the necessary leverage (and end up with a fair-sized and ugly hole through the transom if you have an externally hung rudder).
I saw an interesting trick recently: one of the tiller style autohelms was mounted below decks and the steering arm was attached to a ring in continuous loop (so it was push/pull) rope and pully system and thence to the tiller. One went on autopilot simply by putting a loop over the tiller.
Kannon Bosatsu
12-30-2002, 12:10 AM
Meerkat, Thanks... My thought is...shouldn't I be able to place a clamp ring on the rudder post (it isn't a barn door per say, but hangs at a slant, emrging well below the water line...) and a hydraulic arm attached to that that syncs up with a steering computer that will steer the boat. Or is that going to require too too much leverage power? But isn't that just creating a secondary tiller below decks, so one of those raytheon ugly things should work right? At least in limited circumstances... To describe the boat. She is a aage Nielson/ Paul Luke yawl built 1953. She is still very pure and has had very little done to her, and I am in a quandry over how much I should do so that I can comfortably sail her and live aboard while still keeping that classic quality to her. Thank you all for your suggestions so far!
Kannon Bosatsu
12-30-2002, 12:10 AM
Meerkat, Thanks... My thought is...shouldn't I be able to place a clamp ring on the rudder post (it isn't a barn door per say, but hangs at a slant, emrging well below the water line...) and a hydraulic arm attached to that that syncs up with a steering computer that will steer the boat. Or is that going to require too too much leverage power? But isn't that just creating a secondary tiller below decks, so one of those raytheon ugly things should work right? At least in limited circumstances... To describe the boat. She is a aage Nielson/ Paul Luke yawl built 1953. She is still very pure and has had very little done to her, and I am in a quandry over how much I should do so that I can comfortably sail her and live aboard while still keeping that classic quality to her. Thank you all for your suggestions so far!
Kannon Bosatsu
12-30-2002, 12:10 AM
Meerkat, Thanks... My thought is...shouldn't I be able to place a clamp ring on the rudder post (it isn't a barn door per say, but hangs at a slant, emrging well below the water line...) and a hydraulic arm attached to that that syncs up with a steering computer that will steer the boat. Or is that going to require too too much leverage power? But isn't that just creating a secondary tiller below decks, so one of those raytheon ugly things should work right? At least in limited circumstances... To describe the boat. She is a aage Nielson/ Paul Luke yawl built 1953. She is still very pure and has had very little done to her, and I am in a quandry over how much I should do so that I can comfortably sail her and live aboard while still keeping that classic quality to her. Thank you all for your suggestions so far!
Dale Genther
01-02-2003, 11:21 AM
I had the same concerns you have about maintaining the original appearance of my 41 ft. 1952 German Frers Sr. sloop. I ended up buying a Navico TP300CX. It is mounted with a simple pin to the tiller and a brass insert into a 1/2 in. hole drilled into the cockpit seat. The plug for the wires I mounted out of sight. When not using it I store the tiller pilot in a locker. It use it only takes a few seconds to pop it into the socket and onto the tiller pin. It is rated for a 40 ft. boat with 14,000 lb. displacement, but it works great with my 41 ft. boat at 21,000 lb displacement, it has 187 lb. thrust. I use it mostly for those long windless motoring days in the summer on the Chesapeake. One of the best investments I ever made.
Dale Genther
01-02-2003, 11:21 AM
I had the same concerns you have about maintaining the original appearance of my 41 ft. 1952 German Frers Sr. sloop. I ended up buying a Navico TP300CX. It is mounted with a simple pin to the tiller and a brass insert into a 1/2 in. hole drilled into the cockpit seat. The plug for the wires I mounted out of sight. When not using it I store the tiller pilot in a locker. It use it only takes a few seconds to pop it into the socket and onto the tiller pin. It is rated for a 40 ft. boat with 14,000 lb. displacement, but it works great with my 41 ft. boat at 21,000 lb displacement, it has 187 lb. thrust. I use it mostly for those long windless motoring days in the summer on the Chesapeake. One of the best investments I ever made.
Dale Genther
01-02-2003, 11:21 AM
I had the same concerns you have about maintaining the original appearance of my 41 ft. 1952 German Frers Sr. sloop. I ended up buying a Navico TP300CX. It is mounted with a simple pin to the tiller and a brass insert into a 1/2 in. hole drilled into the cockpit seat. The plug for the wires I mounted out of sight. When not using it I store the tiller pilot in a locker. It use it only takes a few seconds to pop it into the socket and onto the tiller pin. It is rated for a 40 ft. boat with 14,000 lb. displacement, but it works great with my 41 ft. boat at 21,000 lb displacement, it has 187 lb. thrust. I use it mostly for those long windless motoring days in the summer on the Chesapeake. One of the best investments I ever made.
Gresham CA
01-02-2003, 01:51 PM
Kannon,
My brother's ketch has his autopilot connected to the rudder post just as you are talking about. Permanent mount and out of sight. It is mounted above the quadrant.
Gresham CA
01-02-2003, 01:51 PM
Kannon,
My brother's ketch has his autopilot connected to the rudder post just as you are talking about. Permanent mount and out of sight. It is mounted above the quadrant.
Gresham CA
01-02-2003, 01:51 PM
Kannon,
My brother's ketch has his autopilot connected to the rudder post just as you are talking about. Permanent mount and out of sight. It is mounted above the quadrant.
Hi Nicholas
I have an autohelm tiller pilot and as mention by Dale, I think you make the mountings fairly unobtrusive. I have the mounting bush on a clamp on the pushpit railing. A pin has to be mounted on the tiller and the removal of this will leave some evidence, or some sort of clamp to go round the tiller could fabricated. And the power can be supplied from below by extending the cable. This seems a lot easier than trying mount something to rudder post and it packs away out of sight when not in use.
Cheers
Ian
Hi Nicholas
I have an autohelm tiller pilot and as mention by Dale, I think you make the mountings fairly unobtrusive. I have the mounting bush on a clamp on the pushpit railing. A pin has to be mounted on the tiller and the removal of this will leave some evidence, or some sort of clamp to go round the tiller could fabricated. And the power can be supplied from below by extending the cable. This seems a lot easier than trying mount something to rudder post and it packs away out of sight when not in use.
Cheers
Ian
Hi Nicholas
I have an autohelm tiller pilot and as mention by Dale, I think you make the mountings fairly unobtrusive. I have the mounting bush on a clamp on the pushpit railing. A pin has to be mounted on the tiller and the removal of this will leave some evidence, or some sort of clamp to go round the tiller could fabricated. And the power can be supplied from below by extending the cable. This seems a lot easier than trying mount something to rudder post and it packs away out of sight when not in use.
Cheers
Ian
pwilling
01-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Speaking as an owner of an Autohelm 4000 . . . they are great when they work, but there is more than meets the eye. Power source, flux gate compass, cabling, control box, piston, tiller attachment. Where are you going to put the control box -- certainly not in a big new hole in your thwartships bulkhead . . .
Any of you guys have cast iron ballast, and if so, where do you mount your flux gate compass?
pwilling
01-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Speaking as an owner of an Autohelm 4000 . . . they are great when they work, but there is more than meets the eye. Power source, flux gate compass, cabling, control box, piston, tiller attachment. Where are you going to put the control box -- certainly not in a big new hole in your thwartships bulkhead . . .
Any of you guys have cast iron ballast, and if so, where do you mount your flux gate compass?
pwilling
01-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Speaking as an owner of an Autohelm 4000 . . . they are great when they work, but there is more than meets the eye. Power source, flux gate compass, cabling, control box, piston, tiller attachment. Where are you going to put the control box -- certainly not in a big new hole in your thwartships bulkhead . . .
Any of you guys have cast iron ballast, and if so, where do you mount your flux gate compass?
Dan McCosh
01-11-2003, 11:46 AM
I've used a Navico for about seven years now. The attachment on the cockpit seat is a 3/8 in. bronze bushing that is barely visible when the autopilot is stowed. The removeable tiller bracket is attached to a couple of threaded bushings on the bottom. There is a simple power outlet--about an inch in diameter. All n all, not all that obnoxious on a 1936-vintage, 26,000 lb. sloop with a tiller. Only problem is it makes you kind of lazy, Aslide from ambling around the deck on offshore passages, rather than crouched over the tiller for five hours at a time, you even find yourself using it to help raise the sails, letting the boat steer itself upwind while you take your time. Things get really bad when you find yourself really enjoying being up on the bow plunging into a mild head sea, just going along for the ride. It's bad for the character.
Dan McCosh
01-11-2003, 11:46 AM
I've used a Navico for about seven years now. The attachment on the cockpit seat is a 3/8 in. bronze bushing that is barely visible when the autopilot is stowed. The removeable tiller bracket is attached to a couple of threaded bushings on the bottom. There is a simple power outlet--about an inch in diameter. All n all, not all that obnoxious on a 1936-vintage, 26,000 lb. sloop with a tiller. Only problem is it makes you kind of lazy, Aslide from ambling around the deck on offshore passages, rather than crouched over the tiller for five hours at a time, you even find yourself using it to help raise the sails, letting the boat steer itself upwind while you take your time. Things get really bad when you find yourself really enjoying being up on the bow plunging into a mild head sea, just going along for the ride. It's bad for the character.
Dan McCosh
01-11-2003, 11:46 AM
I've used a Navico for about seven years now. The attachment on the cockpit seat is a 3/8 in. bronze bushing that is barely visible when the autopilot is stowed. The removeable tiller bracket is attached to a couple of threaded bushings on the bottom. There is a simple power outlet--about an inch in diameter. All n all, not all that obnoxious on a 1936-vintage, 26,000 lb. sloop with a tiller. Only problem is it makes you kind of lazy, Aslide from ambling around the deck on offshore passages, rather than crouched over the tiller for five hours at a time, you even find yourself using it to help raise the sails, letting the boat steer itself upwind while you take your time. Things get really bad when you find yourself really enjoying being up on the bow plunging into a mild head sea, just going along for the ride. It's bad for the character.
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