propane camper appliances on a boat?

[GaryC]

Has anyone installed camper-type appliances such as 3-way fridge, propane water heater and/or propane cabin heater with thermostat in a boat?(All 3 exhausting to the outside) I'm selling my pickup camper this spring to concentrate on a lobster-type 30-footer . Adding a chemical toilet for wharf use and gunkholing was step one. I then learned the St-Lawrence water here seldom goes above 55F, so when the Volvo diesel is stopped,
brrrrrrr. Unless there are MAJOR reasons not to do so, I would like to start installing these
in april. May June sept and oct can often produce 0F nights here. Best regards and happy planning, everyone.

[GaryC]

Has anyone installed camper-type appliances such as 3-way fridge, propane water heater and/or propane cabin heater with thermostat in a boat?(All 3 exhausting to the outside) I'm selling my pickup camper this spring to concentrate on a lobster-type 30-footer . Adding a chemical toilet for wharf use and gunkholing was step one. I then learned the St-Lawrence water here seldom goes above 55F, so when the Volvo diesel is stopped,
brrrrrrr. Unless there are MAJOR reasons not to do so, I would like to start installing these
in april. May June sept and oct can often produce 0F nights here. Best regards and happy planning, everyone.

[GaryC]

Has anyone installed camper-type appliances such as 3-way fridge, propane water heater and/or propane cabin heater with thermostat in a boat?(All 3 exhausting to the outside) I'm selling my pickup camper this spring to concentrate on a lobster-type 30-footer . Adding a chemical toilet for wharf use and gunkholing was step one. I then learned the St-Lawrence water here seldom goes above 55F, so when the Volvo diesel is stopped,
brrrrrrr. Unless there are MAJOR reasons not to do so, I would like to start installing these
in april. May June sept and oct can often produce 0F nights here. Best regards and happy planning, everyone.

[John Bell]

The houseboat we used in the Thousand Islands this summer was equipped with RV appliances. However, this boat was more like a construction trailer on top of three steel pontoons, so there was no bilge for gas to collect in the event of a leak. In fact, deck/sole had a few holes intentionally added to mitigate any chance for gas to puddle up.

The appliances all worked wonderfully well. I liked them, especially the fridge.

But would I want them in a boat with a bilge and an inboard? I don't know... A good sniffer system and powerful ventilation seem like a must if you want to go that way. I'm not a big fan of blowing up, so I'd probably bow to convention and buy stuff designed specifically for the safety requirements of something with a bilge and an inboard.

[John Bell]

The houseboat we used in the Thousand Islands this summer was equipped with RV appliances. However, this boat was more like a construction trailer on top of three steel pontoons, so there was no bilge for gas to collect in the event of a leak. In fact, deck/sole had a few holes intentionally added to mitigate any chance for gas to puddle up.

The appliances all worked wonderfully well. I liked them, especially the fridge.

But would I want them in a boat with a bilge and an inboard? I don't know... A good sniffer system and powerful ventilation seem like a must if you want to go that way. I'm not a big fan of blowing up, so I'd probably bow to convention and buy stuff designed specifically for the safety requirements of something with a bilge and an inboard.

[John Bell]

The houseboat we used in the Thousand Islands this summer was equipped with RV appliances. However, this boat was more like a construction trailer on top of three steel pontoons, so there was no bilge for gas to collect in the event of a leak. In fact, deck/sole had a few holes intentionally added to mitigate any chance for gas to puddle up.

The appliances all worked wonderfully well. I liked them, especially the fridge.

But would I want them in a boat with a bilge and an inboard? I don't know... A good sniffer system and powerful ventilation seem like a must if you want to go that way. I'm not a big fan of blowing up, so I'd probably bow to convention and buy stuff designed specifically for the safety requirements of something with a bilge and an inboard.

[WWheeler]

I've also rented a houseboat with propane appliances, and it had hot water heating from a Volvo io/ob. (The propane fridge worked so well I was thinking of installing one at home.)

The major problem with this form of heating is that there's no storage -- turn off the engine and the hot water's gone, so we had to take showers while underway, or just after docking.

Perhaps what you need is a storage tank, which stores hot water that's been circulated from the engine. You could probably take an old 20 or 40 gal. hot water heater and install in line with the engine water exhaust.

However, if you want a heater, here's some thoughts:

1) On boats with bilges, they're typically restricted to outside use only, such as a propane barbecue that hangs off a rail. I'm not sure if what the installation regulations say, but a scenario where the propane collects and then explodes in the bilge due to a spark is both credible (as they say) and catastrophic. Houses have been blown up due to similar accidents. (For example on the Trent canal system, you have to turn off all propane appliances when locking through.)

2) On the other hand, perhaps the installation would be acceptable if the heater is installed effectively on the outside of the boat. (such as vented locker, which is where the propane tanks on a houseboat are typically installed.)

3) The typical marine installation is based on oil / diesel heating. Of course, being a marine appliance, it probably costs triple the amount of an RV appliance.

4) If your primary use for auxiliary hot water heating is while at dock side, perhaps a small electric hot water heater is the most practical thing. If you're really cramped for space, an electric in-line (tankless) heaters is an option.

[ 02-19-2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: WWheeler ]

[WWheeler]

I've also rented a houseboat with propane appliances, and it had hot water heating from a Volvo io/ob. (The propane fridge worked so well I was thinking of installing one at home.)

The major problem with this form of heating is that there's no storage -- turn off the engine and the hot water's gone, so we had to take showers while underway, or just after docking.

Perhaps what you need is a storage tank, which stores hot water that's been circulated from the engine. You could probably take an old 20 or 40 gal. hot water heater and install in line with the engine water exhaust.

However, if you want a heater, here's some thoughts:

1) On boats with bilges, they're typically restricted to outside use only, such as a propane barbecue that hangs off a rail. I'm not sure if what the installation regulations say, but a scenario where the propane collects and then explodes in the bilge due to a spark is both credible (as they say) and catastrophic. Houses have been blown up due to similar accidents. (For example on the Trent canal system, you have to turn off all propane appliances when locking through.)

2) On the other hand, perhaps the installation would be acceptable if the heater is installed effectively on the outside of the boat. (such as vented locker, which is where the propane tanks on a houseboat are typically installed.)

3) The typical marine installation is based on oil / diesel heating. Of course, being a marine appliance, it probably costs triple the amount of an RV appliance.

4) If your primary use for auxiliary hot water heating is while at dock side, perhaps a small electric hot water heater is the most practical thing. If you're really cramped for space, an electric in-line (tankless) heaters is an option.

[ 02-19-2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: WWheeler ]

[WWheeler]

I've also rented a houseboat with propane appliances, and it had hot water heating from a Volvo io/ob. (The propane fridge worked so well I was thinking of installing one at home.)

The major problem with this form of heating is that there's no storage -- turn off the engine and the hot water's gone, so we had to take showers while underway, or just after docking.

Perhaps what you need is a storage tank, which stores hot water that's been circulated from the engine. You could probably take an old 20 or 40 gal. hot water heater and install in line with the engine water exhaust.

However, if you want a heater, here's some thoughts:

1) On boats with bilges, they're typically restricted to outside use only, such as a propane barbecue that hangs off a rail. I'm not sure if what the installation regulations say, but a scenario where the propane collects and then explodes in the bilge due to a spark is both credible (as they say) and catastrophic. Houses have been blown up due to similar accidents. (For example on the Trent canal system, you have to turn off all propane appliances when locking through.)

2) On the other hand, perhaps the installation would be acceptable if the heater is installed effectively on the outside of the boat. (such as vented locker, which is where the propane tanks on a houseboat are typically installed.)

3) The typical marine installation is based on oil / diesel heating. Of course, being a marine appliance, it probably costs triple the amount of an RV appliance.

4) If your primary use for auxiliary hot water heating is while at dock side, perhaps a small electric hot water heater is the most practical thing. If you're really cramped for space, an electric in-line (tankless) heaters is an option.

[ 02-19-2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: WWheeler ]

[igatenby]

I'm re-installing a SMEV marine propane stove / oven in Grantala (cost me about US$1000) and considered (and rejected) the idea of gas hot water heating. I don't think I would consider RV appliances - do they have automatic flame failure shut-offs?

My gas tanks are in an external locker - no flow path into the bilge. Single length of pipe to the appliance - no joins other than the flexible pipe at the appliance. Gas fuse on the bottle in case of leakage and forgetting to turn it off. Be religious about gas only being turned on at the bottle when the appliance is in use - always. I tend to use the diesel-powered genset for making coffee or heating food in the microwave. Much less fuss than going out and turning on the gas, then turning it off again.

I will be reinstalling a 20 gallon electric water heater. I didn't have anywhere external to locate a gas water heater that wouldn't look horrible. The old electric one used to only take about 20 minutes to heat up via the genset. I'm not interested in using the engines for this - the old domestic heater I took out during the refit was still fine after 10+ years, but got destroyed in last year's bushfires here.

If you've got diesel on board - get a diesel air heater too.

Ian

[igatenby]

I'm re-installing a SMEV marine propane stove / oven in Grantala (cost me about US$1000) and considered (and rejected) the idea of gas hot water heating. I don't think I would consider RV appliances - do they have automatic flame failure shut-offs?

My gas tanks are in an external locker - no flow path into the bilge. Single length of pipe to the appliance - no joins other than the flexible pipe at the appliance. Gas fuse on the bottle in case of leakage and forgetting to turn it off. Be religious about gas only being turned on at the bottle when the appliance is in use - always. I tend to use the diesel-powered genset for making coffee or heating food in the microwave. Much less fuss than going out and turning on the gas, then turning it off again.

I will be reinstalling a 20 gallon electric water heater. I didn't have anywhere external to locate a gas water heater that wouldn't look horrible. The old electric one used to only take about 20 minutes to heat up via the genset. I'm not interested in using the engines for this - the old domestic heater I took out during the refit was still fine after 10+ years, but got destroyed in last year's bushfires here.

If you've got diesel on board - get a diesel air heater too.

Ian

[igatenby]

I'm re-installing a SMEV marine propane stove / oven in Grantala (cost me about US$1000) and considered (and rejected) the idea of gas hot water heating. I don't think I would consider RV appliances - do they have automatic flame failure shut-offs?

My gas tanks are in an external locker - no flow path into the bilge. Single length of pipe to the appliance - no joins other than the flexible pipe at the appliance. Gas fuse on the bottle in case of leakage and forgetting to turn it off. Be religious about gas only being turned on at the bottle when the appliance is in use - always. I tend to use the diesel-powered genset for making coffee or heating food in the microwave. Much less fuss than going out and turning on the gas, then turning it off again.

I will be reinstalling a 20 gallon electric water heater. I didn't have anywhere external to locate a gas water heater that wouldn't look horrible. The old electric one used to only take about 20 minutes to heat up via the genset. I'm not interested in using the engines for this - the old domestic heater I took out during the refit was still fine after 10+ years, but got destroyed in last year's bushfires here.

If you've got diesel on board - get a diesel air heater too.

Ian

[Meerkat]

RV appliances rust fast in a salt marine environment.

Water heater: "on demand" gas fired types are top notch and very economical. Have a solenoid actuated valve at the tank to keep the plumbing isloated except when in use.

[Meerkat]

RV appliances rust fast in a salt marine environment.

Water heater: "on demand" gas fired types are top notch and very economical. Have a solenoid actuated valve at the tank to keep the plumbing isloated except when in use.

[Meerkat]

RV appliances rust fast in a salt marine environment.

Water heater: "on demand" gas fired types are top notch and very economical. Have a solenoid actuated valve at the tank to keep the plumbing isloated except when in use.

[mmd]

Igatenby and Meercat touched on the salient points - auto flame shut-offs and corrosion, though Meer has missed the point by a wee bit. Cosmetics is certainly a valid point, but corrosion of the gas line fittings is much more important. Certified marine equipment will have fittings and fuel hoses that are more resistant to the nasty marine environment and will have more robust hardware than their landlubberly cousins.

Check the reccomendations put out by the American Boat & Yacht Council for guidance and explanation of the whys and wherefores. There is a reason for all these expensive bits, and it is usually to save your butt, not to make some merchant wealthier. ;)

[mmd]

Igatenby and Meercat touched on the salient points - auto flame shut-offs and corrosion, though Meer has missed the point by a wee bit. Cosmetics is certainly a valid point, but corrosion of the gas line fittings is much more important. Certified marine equipment will have fittings and fuel hoses that are more resistant to the nasty marine environment and will have more robust hardware than their landlubberly cousins.

Check the reccomendations put out by the American Boat & Yacht Council for guidance and explanation of the whys and wherefores. There is a reason for all these expensive bits, and it is usually to save your butt, not to make some merchant wealthier. ;)

[mmd]

Igatenby and Meercat touched on the salient points - auto flame shut-offs and corrosion, though Meer has missed the point by a wee bit. Cosmetics is certainly a valid point, but corrosion of the gas line fittings is much more important. Certified marine equipment will have fittings and fuel hoses that are more resistant to the nasty marine environment and will have more robust hardware than their landlubberly cousins.

Check the reccomendations put out by the American Boat & Yacht Council for guidance and explanation of the whys and wherefores. There is a reason for all these expensive bits, and it is usually to save your butt, not to make some merchant wealthier. ;)

[J. A.Tones]

Just as a comment and not trying to sway anyones opinions, we have had an RV propane stove on Penta for over 15 years. It is just now beginning to show somw signs of rust other than on the burners. The burners are not a problem as they tend to burn out before they rust out, about every 5 years. The installation is very straight forward - the tanks are on the bridge deck in a vented box and the copper gas line runs directly down the side of the cabin to a point outside the stove placement. It then runs thru a plastict thimble into the back of the stove with a full loop directly into the manifold. The tanks have a high pressure solenoid valve on them and the control is on the cabin wall adjacent to the stove and has a very bright pilot lamp. The stove is mounted into a "box" that is part of the galley cabinets and which has a lip along the bottom front face effectively creating a "well" for any leaking propane. Right under the stove is a "sniffer" element that is sensitive enough to go off if you take too long to light the pilot light in the oven.
We test this about once a week during the cruising season and always shut off the tanks manually at night or when we leave the boat.
Just one Canuck's $0.02 worth of ramblings.
John Tones MV Penta

[J. A.Tones]

Just as a comment and not trying to sway anyones opinions, we have had an RV propane stove on Penta for over 15 years. It is just now beginning to show somw signs of rust other than on the burners. The burners are not a problem as they tend to burn out before they rust out, about every 5 years. The installation is very straight forward - the tanks are on the bridge deck in a vented box and the copper gas line runs directly down the side of the cabin to a point outside the stove placement. It then runs thru a plastict thimble into the back of the stove with a full loop directly into the manifold. The tanks have a high pressure solenoid valve on them and the control is on the cabin wall adjacent to the stove and has a very bright pilot lamp. The stove is mounted into a "box" that is part of the galley cabinets and which has a lip along the bottom front face effectively creating a "well" for any leaking propane. Right under the stove is a "sniffer" element that is sensitive enough to go off if you take too long to light the pilot light in the oven.
We test this about once a week during the cruising season and always shut off the tanks manually at night or when we leave the boat.
Just one Canuck's $0.02 worth of ramblings.
John Tones MV Penta

[J. A.Tones]

Just as a comment and not trying to sway anyones opinions, we have had an RV propane stove on Penta for over 15 years. It is just now beginning to show somw signs of rust other than on the burners. The burners are not a problem as they tend to burn out before they rust out, about every 5 years. The installation is very straight forward - the tanks are on the bridge deck in a vented box and the copper gas line runs directly down the side of the cabin to a point outside the stove placement. It then runs thru a plastict thimble into the back of the stove with a full loop directly into the manifold. The tanks have a high pressure solenoid valve on them and the control is on the cabin wall adjacent to the stove and has a very bright pilot lamp. The stove is mounted into a "box" that is part of the galley cabinets and which has a lip along the bottom front face effectively creating a "well" for any leaking propane. Right under the stove is a "sniffer" element that is sensitive enough to go off if you take too long to light the pilot light in the oven.
We test this about once a week during the cruising season and always shut off the tanks manually at night or when we leave the boat.
Just one Canuck's $0.02 worth of ramblings.
John Tones MV Penta