atlantic white cedar

[sidney h]

Through the effort of looking for some eastern red cedar post to build a barn, a logger friend of mine has located some atlanic white cedar on a tract he is thinning that he says I can have to logs. I know AWC is used a great deal for building boats. However, I am not sure of the best use for it other than to build a strip canoe, which I have an interest in learning to do. My question is what is my best options for handling the AWC logs once I obtain them, how should i have them sawn, and what are the best uses for AWC. I am fairly new to wooden boat building as you might can tell. But I hope one day to build my own sail or motor boat that I would like to be seaworthy. thanks

[sidney h]

Through the effort of looking for some eastern red cedar post to build a barn, a logger friend of mine has located some atlanic white cedar on a tract he is thinning that he says I can have to logs. I know AWC is used a great deal for building boats. However, I am not sure of the best use for it other than to build a strip canoe, which I have an interest in learning to do. My question is what is my best options for handling the AWC logs once I obtain them, how should i have them sawn, and what are the best uses for AWC. I am fairly new to wooden boat building as you might can tell. But I hope one day to build my own sail or motor boat that I would like to be seaworthy. thanks

[sidney h]

Through the effort of looking for some eastern red cedar post to build a barn, a logger friend of mine has located some atlanic white cedar on a tract he is thinning that he says I can have to logs. I know AWC is used a great deal for building boats. However, I am not sure of the best use for it other than to build a strip canoe, which I have an interest in learning to do. My question is what is my best options for handling the AWC logs once I obtain them, how should i have them sawn, and what are the best uses for AWC. I am fairly new to wooden boat building as you might can tell. But I hope one day to build my own sail or motor boat that I would like to be seaworthy. thanks

[capt jake]

Isn't AWC also known as 'Juniper'? Seems somebody told me that once. Just curious, not meaning to detract from your question. smile.gif

[capt jake]

Isn't AWC also known as 'Juniper'? Seems somebody told me that once. Just curious, not meaning to detract from your question. smile.gif

[capt jake]

Isn't AWC also known as 'Juniper'? Seems somebody told me that once. Just curious, not meaning to detract from your question. smile.gif

[Dick Millet]

If the logs are big enough you can't go wrong having them quartersawn for planking. If you want to build a stripper by ripping 1/4" strips off though they are best flat sawn.

[Dick Millet]

If the logs are big enough you can't go wrong having them quartersawn for planking. If you want to build a stripper by ripping 1/4" strips off though they are best flat sawn.

[Dick Millet]

If the logs are big enough you can't go wrong having them quartersawn for planking. If you want to build a stripper by ripping 1/4" strips off though they are best flat sawn.

[Mrleft8]

AWC logs should be "end sealed" with oil paint or "end grain sealer" then sawn "through and through" or "in the boule" Stack them on 6"x6" ties laid perfectly flat, on 24" centers, with 3/4" stickers between each board. Any deviation in the line of the ties will translate into a wiggle in the lumber.
"Juniper" is not AWC. Juniper is Eastern RED cedar also called "pencil cedar" (Juniperus virginiana) or any number of other junipers found generally in the western USA. Atlantic Whitecedar is also known as Southern White-cedar, or Swamp Cedar. (Chamaecyparis thyoides). There is also "Northern Whitecedar" (Thuja occidentalis) Which is also known as "Arbor vitae", or "eastern White-cedar".... So.... Which one is it really?

[Mrleft8]

AWC logs should be "end sealed" with oil paint or "end grain sealer" then sawn "through and through" or "in the boule" Stack them on 6"x6" ties laid perfectly flat, on 24" centers, with 3/4" stickers between each board. Any deviation in the line of the ties will translate into a wiggle in the lumber.
"Juniper" is not AWC. Juniper is Eastern RED cedar also called "pencil cedar" (Juniperus virginiana) or any number of other junipers found generally in the western USA. Atlantic Whitecedar is also known as Southern White-cedar, or Swamp Cedar. (Chamaecyparis thyoides). There is also "Northern Whitecedar" (Thuja occidentalis) Which is also known as "Arbor vitae", or "eastern White-cedar".... So.... Which one is it really?

[Mrleft8]

AWC logs should be "end sealed" with oil paint or "end grain sealer" then sawn "through and through" or "in the boule" Stack them on 6"x6" ties laid perfectly flat, on 24" centers, with 3/4" stickers between each board. Any deviation in the line of the ties will translate into a wiggle in the lumber.
"Juniper" is not AWC. Juniper is Eastern RED cedar also called "pencil cedar" (Juniperus virginiana) or any number of other junipers found generally in the western USA. Atlantic Whitecedar is also known as Southern White-cedar, or Swamp Cedar. (Chamaecyparis thyoides). There is also "Northern Whitecedar" (Thuja occidentalis) Which is also known as "Arbor vitae", or "eastern White-cedar".... So.... Which one is it really?

[capt jake]

Juniper is Eastern RED cedar also called "pencil cedar" (Juniperus virginiana) or any number of other junipers found generally in the western USA OK, Can you clarify this? It is Eastern...found in the Western...?
I am confused! :confused:

[capt jake]

Juniper is Eastern RED cedar also called "pencil cedar" (Juniperus virginiana) or any number of other junipers found generally in the western USA OK, Can you clarify this? It is Eastern...found in the Western...?
I am confused! :confused:

[capt jake]

Juniper is Eastern RED cedar also called "pencil cedar" (Juniperus virginiana) or any number of other junipers found generally in the western USA OK, Can you clarify this? It is Eastern...found in the Western...?
I am confused! :confused:

[Mrleft8]

Might it be "port orford whitecedar"?

[Mrleft8]

Might it be "port orford whitecedar"?

[Mrleft8]

Might it be "port orford whitecedar"?

[Mrleft8]

There is also "Western redcedar" (thuja plicata)Which is a good boat wood. This is what most "cedar shingles" are made from.

[Mrleft8]

There is also "Western redcedar" (thuja plicata)Which is a good boat wood. This is what most "cedar shingles" are made from.

[Mrleft8]

There is also "Western redcedar" (thuja plicata)Which is a good boat wood. This is what most "cedar shingles" are made from.

[Mrleft8]

Oh wait! I understand! (DUH!) What I meant is that "juniper" is (around here) "eastern redcedar" But out west it could be "rocky mountain juniper" or"utah juniper" or "aligator juniper".... All of which are in the "Juniperus" familly, but distinctly different species...... Sorry!

[Mrleft8]

Oh wait! I understand! (DUH!) What I meant is that "juniper" is (around here) "eastern redcedar" But out west it could be "rocky mountain juniper" or"utah juniper" or "aligator juniper".... All of which are in the "Juniperus" familly, but distinctly different species...... Sorry!

[Mrleft8]

Oh wait! I understand! (DUH!) What I meant is that "juniper" is (around here) "eastern redcedar" But out west it could be "rocky mountain juniper" or"utah juniper" or "aligator juniper".... All of which are in the "Juniperus" familly, but distinctly different species...... Sorry!

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

MrleFt8 (and Capt. Jake), Atlantic White-Cedar is colloquially known in the Carolinas as Juniper. Both Atlantic White-Cedar and Eastern Redcedar or "Red Juniper", are members of the Cypress family. Baldcypress, however, is a member of the Redwood family. Sidney, if the trees were mine, I would have them flitch sawn, which is sawing the log into sections of whatever thickness you desire, leaving the bark or "live edge"on. If you plan on building something later, especially if it to be carvel planked, flitch sawn boards would allow you to take advantage of the natural curved grain of the wood. And, you could always have the flitches re-sawn into other dimensions. By the way, Juniper is wonderful to work and smells nice too. Good luck!

The Gentleman Sawyer

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

MrleFt8 (and Capt. Jake), Atlantic White-Cedar is colloquially known in the Carolinas as Juniper. Both Atlantic White-Cedar and Eastern Redcedar or "Red Juniper", are members of the Cypress family. Baldcypress, however, is a member of the Redwood family. Sidney, if the trees were mine, I would have them flitch sawn, which is sawing the log into sections of whatever thickness you desire, leaving the bark or "live edge"on. If you plan on building something later, especially if it to be carvel planked, flitch sawn boards would allow you to take advantage of the natural curved grain of the wood. And, you could always have the flitches re-sawn into other dimensions. By the way, Juniper is wonderful to work and smells nice too. Good luck!

The Gentleman Sawyer

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

MrleFt8 (and Capt. Jake), Atlantic White-Cedar is colloquially known in the Carolinas as Juniper. Both Atlantic White-Cedar and Eastern Redcedar or "Red Juniper", are members of the Cypress family. Baldcypress, however, is a member of the Redwood family. Sidney, if the trees were mine, I would have them flitch sawn, which is sawing the log into sections of whatever thickness you desire, leaving the bark or "live edge"on. If you plan on building something later, especially if it to be carvel planked, flitch sawn boards would allow you to take advantage of the natural curved grain of the wood. And, you could always have the flitches re-sawn into other dimensions. By the way, Juniper is wonderful to work and smells nice too. Good luck!

The Gentleman Sawyer

[Mrleft8]

Splitting hairs I know, but... ;) Cypress trees are in the "Cupresses" family. Redcedars are "Juniperus", and Atlantic Whitecedar is "Chamaecyparis". All distinctly different.

[Mrleft8]

Splitting hairs I know, but... ;) Cypress trees are in the "Cupresses" family. Redcedars are "Juniperus", and Atlantic Whitecedar is "Chamaecyparis". All distinctly different.

[Mrleft8]

Splitting hairs I know, but... ;) Cypress trees are in the "Cupresses" family. Redcedars are "Juniperus", and Atlantic Whitecedar is "Chamaecyparis". All distinctly different.

[NormMessinger]

Spliting hairs are we? ;) Western Redcedar is not a Juniperus. It get's down right confusing with common names instead of names we can't spell or pronounce.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Spliting hairs are we? ;) Western Redcedar is not a Juniperus. It get's down right confusing with common names instead of names we can't spell or pronounce.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Spliting hairs are we? ;) Western Redcedar is not a Juniperus. It get's down right confusing with common names instead of names we can't spell or pronounce.

--Norm

[Mrleft8]

I DO believe I said Western Redcedar was a "Thuja" not a "Juniperus" :D . This is kinda my point in asking what exactly we were refering to here... "Common" names, or "local colloquialisms" are basically useless unless you are talking to the person who told you what tree X was. If I had shown you around my yard, and shown you a very distinctive looking tree that you had never seen before, and told you that that tree was a "Big nut fizzle tree" You'd have a hell of a time explaining that tree to anyone else. But, if I told you that the "Big nut fizzle tree" was also an "Aesculus glabra", someone somewhere would know that we were really talking about an "Ohio Buckeye"....
so.... Is it a "juniper"? Is it an "Atlantic whitecedar"? Does it really matter? I still say cut it "through and through" and stack it properly. :D

[Mrleft8]

I DO believe I said Western Redcedar was a "Thuja" not a "Juniperus" :D . This is kinda my point in asking what exactly we were refering to here... "Common" names, or "local colloquialisms" are basically useless unless you are talking to the person who told you what tree X was. If I had shown you around my yard, and shown you a very distinctive looking tree that you had never seen before, and told you that that tree was a "Big nut fizzle tree" You'd have a hell of a time explaining that tree to anyone else. But, if I told you that the "Big nut fizzle tree" was also an "Aesculus glabra", someone somewhere would know that we were really talking about an "Ohio Buckeye"....
so.... Is it a "juniper"? Is it an "Atlantic whitecedar"? Does it really matter? I still say cut it "through and through" and stack it properly. :D

[Mrleft8]

I DO believe I said Western Redcedar was a "Thuja" not a "Juniperus" :D . This is kinda my point in asking what exactly we were refering to here... "Common" names, or "local colloquialisms" are basically useless unless you are talking to the person who told you what tree X was. If I had shown you around my yard, and shown you a very distinctive looking tree that you had never seen before, and told you that that tree was a "Big nut fizzle tree" You'd have a hell of a time explaining that tree to anyone else. But, if I told you that the "Big nut fizzle tree" was also an "Aesculus glabra", someone somewhere would know that we were really talking about an "Ohio Buckeye"....
so.... Is it a "juniper"? Is it an "Atlantic whitecedar"? Does it really matter? I still say cut it "through and through" and stack it properly. :D

[Mrleft8]

BTW.... "Bald cypress" is not a redwood. The redwoods are "Sequoia's" "Bald Cyrpress" is a "Taxodium" tongue.gif

[Mrleft8]

BTW.... "Bald cypress" is not a redwood. The redwoods are "Sequoia's" "Bald Cyrpress" is a "Taxodium" tongue.gif

[Mrleft8]

BTW.... "Bald cypress" is not a redwood. The redwoods are "Sequoia's" "Bald Cyrpress" is a "Taxodium" tongue.gif

[capt jake]

OK, I got it! Clear as the stuff I pulled out of the compost pile! LOL Just can't tell if was cherry leaves or maple....maybe southern purple... LOL smile.gif
Thanks though!!

[capt jake]

OK, I got it! Clear as the stuff I pulled out of the compost pile! LOL Just can't tell if was cherry leaves or maple....maybe southern purple... LOL smile.gif
Thanks though!!

[capt jake]

OK, I got it! Clear as the stuff I pulled out of the compost pile! LOL Just can't tell if was cherry leaves or maple....maybe southern purple... LOL smile.gif
Thanks though!!

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Not wanting to turn this into another China Diesel thread, but...mrle, according to the National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Trees, Eastern Region, Baldcypress or "Cypress", or "Swamp Cypress" is included in the Redwood Family, along with Montezuma Baldcypress. Pages 302 and 303.

The Gentleman Sawyer

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Not wanting to turn this into another China Diesel thread, but...mrle, according to the National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Trees, Eastern Region, Baldcypress or "Cypress", or "Swamp Cypress" is included in the Redwood Family, along with Montezuma Baldcypress. Pages 302 and 303.

The Gentleman Sawyer

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Not wanting to turn this into another China Diesel thread, but...mrle, according to the National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Trees, Eastern Region, Baldcypress or "Cypress", or "Swamp Cypress" is included in the Redwood Family, along with Montezuma Baldcypress. Pages 302 and 303.

The Gentleman Sawyer

[Mrleft8]

E-GADS! Now even Latin names are being regionalized? :eek:
I am not suggesting that Audubon is incorrect, just that "Redwoods" are "Sequoia" and "Baldcypress" are "Taxodium", according to the American Forestry Association.

[Mrleft8]

E-GADS! Now even Latin names are being regionalized? :eek:
I am not suggesting that Audubon is incorrect, just that "Redwoods" are "Sequoia" and "Baldcypress" are "Taxodium", according to the American Forestry Association.

[Mrleft8]

E-GADS! Now even Latin names are being regionalized? :eek:
I am not suggesting that Audubon is incorrect, just that "Redwoods" are "Sequoia" and "Baldcypress" are "Taxodium", according to the American Forestry Association.

[sidney h]

Gentlemen, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation my seemingly...at least I thought it was at the time...questions has generated. Just to put everyones mind at rest it is atlantic white cedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) trees i am asking about cutting. Thanks so much for the input about the cutting of these trees as well.

[sidney h]

Gentlemen, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation my seemingly...at least I thought it was at the time...questions has generated. Just to put everyones mind at rest it is atlantic white cedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) trees i am asking about cutting. Thanks so much for the input about the cutting of these trees as well.

[sidney h]

Gentlemen, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation my seemingly...at least I thought it was at the time...questions has generated. Just to put everyones mind at rest it is atlantic white cedar (Chamaecyparis thyoides) trees i am asking about cutting. Thanks so much for the input about the cutting of these trees as well.

[Mrleft8]

No problem! :D Anytime!

[Mrleft8]

No problem! :D Anytime!

[Mrleft8]

No problem! :D Anytime!

[ishmael]

Hmm, it has been a LONG time since I considered things taxonomically, but couldn't two different species of tree be said to be of the same family, yet not be of the same genus? Aren't the bottom three rungs of the ladder: family, genus, species?

[ishmael]

Hmm, it has been a LONG time since I considered things taxonomically, but couldn't two different species of tree be said to be of the same family, yet not be of the same genus? Aren't the bottom three rungs of the ladder: family, genus, species?

[ishmael]

Hmm, it has been a LONG time since I considered things taxonomically, but couldn't two different species of tree be said to be of the same family, yet not be of the same genus? Aren't the bottom three rungs of the ladder: family, genus, species?

[NormMessinger]

No no. Sequoias are sequoias as in the Giant Sequoia. Redwoods are Sequoiadendron as in the Coast Redwoods tongue.gif

And, further more only ornithologists know the proper way to capitalze common names.

--Norm

[ 12-22-2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[NormMessinger]

No no. Sequoias are sequoias as in the Giant Sequoia. Redwoods are Sequoiadendron as in the Coast Redwoods tongue.gif

And, further more only ornithologists know the proper way to capitalze common names.

--Norm

[ 12-22-2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[NormMessinger]

No no. Sequoias are sequoias as in the Giant Sequoia. Redwoods are Sequoiadendron as in the Coast Redwoods tongue.gif

And, further more only ornithologists know the proper way to capitalze common names.

--Norm

[ 12-22-2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[ishmael]

I'm still confused. Are those not still genus names, not family?

[ishmael]

I'm still confused. Are those not still genus names, not family?

[ishmael]

I'm still confused. Are those not still genus names, not family?

[Donn]

Ish: "Aren't the bottom three rungs of the ladder: family, genus, species?"

Yes, but they really aren't the bottom. Nature and man have both created varieties and cultivars that are recognized in taxonomy.

[Donn]

Ish: "Aren't the bottom three rungs of the ladder: family, genus, species?"

Yes, but they really aren't the bottom. Nature and man have both created varieties and cultivars that are recognized in taxonomy.

[Donn]

Ish: "Aren't the bottom three rungs of the ladder: family, genus, species?"

Yes, but they really aren't the bottom. Nature and man have both created varieties and cultivars that are recognized in taxonomy.

[ishmael]

I don't understand your point Donn. Hybrids and special cultivars would still be gooseing aroung at the species and sub-species level. What am I missing?

The Linaean system is a laddered system for good reason: because that's the way our mind works. I still imagine, without much expertise, that a cypress tree and a redwood, could indeed be members of the same family whilst exhibiting very different genus character.

[ishmael]

I don't understand your point Donn. Hybrids and special cultivars would still be gooseing aroung at the species and sub-species level. What am I missing?

The Linaean system is a laddered system for good reason: because that's the way our mind works. I still imagine, without much expertise, that a cypress tree and a redwood, could indeed be members of the same family whilst exhibiting very different genus character.

[ishmael]

I don't understand your point Donn. Hybrids and special cultivars would still be gooseing aroung at the species and sub-species level. What am I missing?

The Linaean system is a laddered system for good reason: because that's the way our mind works. I still imagine, without much expertise, that a cypress tree and a redwood, could indeed be members of the same family whilst exhibiting very different genus character.

[LongJohn]

Hey, hey a botany question!

All the plants mentioned are in the Division Coniferophyta, Class Pinopsida, and Order Pinales. Pinales includes 6 Families and 227 “accepted taxa” (Species plus subspecies or varieties). All of the Conifers except Yews are in the Pineales.

Chamaecyparis thyoides (Atlantic white cedar) is in the Family Cupressaceae, as are the cypresses (Cupressus sp.), junipers (Juniperus sp.), and red cedars (Thuja sp.). Eastern red cedar, however, is a juniper (Juniperus virginiana), while western red cedar (T. plicata) and arborvitae or northern white cedar (T. occidentalis) are both red cedars (Thuja).

The redwood family (Taxodiaceae) has 6 genera and 14 species, including bald cypress (Taxodium distichum), redwood (Sequoia sempervirens), and giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum).

For classification of any plant found in North America go to:
USDA Plants Database (http://plants.usda.gov/classification.html)
By surfing the results you can find an amazing amount of information about any of the plants covered.

- John

By the way, the proper way to write scientific names is to capitalize the first letter of the genus, but not of the specific epithet, and the whole name needs to be in italics or underlined since it is in pseudo-Latin and therefore a “foreign” language. (Family and other higher-order names are also in pseudo-Latin, but not generally italicized – go figure.) Moreover, the proper name of a species needs to include BOTH the genus and the specific epithet, PLUS the citation (the official abbreviation of the name of the person who named the plant). (Zoologists have a similar, but not quite identical system.)

Therefore, it’s Thuja occidentalis L.

All this won’t do you much good at the sawmill, but if you happen to find youself among botanists at least you’ll know you’re talking about the same plant.

[LongJohn]

Hey, hey a botany question!

All the plants mentioned are in the Division Coniferophyta, Class Pinopsida, and Order Pinales. Pinales includes 6 Families and 227 “accepted taxa” (Species plus subspecies or varieties). All of the Conifers except Yews are in the Pineales.

Chamaecyparis thyoides (Atlantic white cedar) is in the Family Cupressaceae, as are the cypresses (Cupressus sp.), junipers (Juniperus sp.), and red cedars (Thuja sp.). Eastern red cedar, however, is a juniper (Juniperus virginiana), while western red cedar (T. plicata) and arborvitae or northern white cedar (T. occidentalis) are both red cedars (Thuja).

The redwood family (Taxodiaceae) has 6 genera and 14 species, including bald cypress (Taxodium distichum), redwood (Sequoia sempervirens), and giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum).

For classification of any plant found in North America go to:
USDA Plants Database (http://plants.usda.gov/classification.html)
By surfing the results you can find an amazing amount of information about any of the plants covered.

- John

By the way, the proper way to write scientific names is to capitalize the first letter of the genus, but not of the specific epithet, and the whole name needs to be in italics or underlined since it is in pseudo-Latin and therefore a “foreign” language. (Family and other higher-order names are also in pseudo-Latin, but not generally italicized – go figure.) Moreover, the proper name of a species needs to include BOTH the genus and the specific epithet, PLUS the citation (the official abbreviation of the name of the person who named the plant). (Zoologists have a similar, but not quite identical system.)

Therefore, it’s Thuja occidentalis L.

All this won’t do you much good at the sawmill, but if you happen to find youself among botanists at least you’ll know you’re talking about the same plant.

[LongJohn]

Hey, hey a botany question!

All the plants mentioned are in the Division Coniferophyta, Class Pinopsida, and Order Pinales. Pinales includes 6 Families and 227 “accepted taxa” (Species plus subspecies or varieties). All of the Conifers except Yews are in the Pineales.

Chamaecyparis thyoides (Atlantic white cedar) is in the Family Cupressaceae, as are the cypresses (Cupressus sp.), junipers (Juniperus sp.), and red cedars (Thuja sp.). Eastern red cedar, however, is a juniper (Juniperus virginiana), while western red cedar (T. plicata) and arborvitae or northern white cedar (T. occidentalis) are both red cedars (Thuja).

The redwood family (Taxodiaceae) has 6 genera and 14 species, including bald cypress (Taxodium distichum), redwood (Sequoia sempervirens), and giant sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum).

For classification of any plant found in North America go to:
USDA Plants Database (http://plants.usda.gov/classification.html)
By surfing the results you can find an amazing amount of information about any of the plants covered.

- John

By the way, the proper way to write scientific names is to capitalize the first letter of the genus, but not of the specific epithet, and the whole name needs to be in italics or underlined since it is in pseudo-Latin and therefore a “foreign” language. (Family and other higher-order names are also in pseudo-Latin, but not generally italicized – go figure.) Moreover, the proper name of a species needs to include BOTH the genus and the specific epithet, PLUS the citation (the official abbreviation of the name of the person who named the plant). (Zoologists have a similar, but not quite identical system.)

Therefore, it’s Thuja occidentalis L.

All this won’t do you much good at the sawmill, but if you happen to find youself among botanists at least you’ll know you’re talking about the same plant.

[Mrleft8]

Norm... What's a "Thorny-ologist"? tongue.gif

[Mrleft8]

Norm... What's a "Thorny-ologist"? tongue.gif

[Mrleft8]

Norm... What's a "Thorny-ologist"? tongue.gif

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Thank you LongJohn. Now if ya'll will excuse me, I've got to go saw some Juglans nigra. :D

The Gentleman Sawyer

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Thank you LongJohn. Now if ya'll will excuse me, I've got to go saw some Juglans nigra. :D

The Gentleman Sawyer

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Thank you LongJohn. Now if ya'll will excuse me, I've got to go saw some Juglans nigra. :D

The Gentleman Sawyer

[Mrleft8]

Juglans Nigra!? I just made some nice butter boards out of Juglans Nigra today! Nothing like a nice set of Juglans Negra boards I say! :D

[Mrleft8]

Juglans Nigra!? I just made some nice butter boards out of Juglans Nigra today! Nothing like a nice set of Juglans Negra boards I say! :D

[Mrleft8]

Juglans Nigra!? I just made some nice butter boards out of Juglans Nigra today! Nothing like a nice set of Juglans Negra boards I say! :D

[NormMessinger]

You guys are confusing me. What the heck is Juglans Nigra? I know what Juglans nigraL. is however. You talking about the same thing?

And, is red cedar the same thing as redcedar?

--N tongue.gif R M

Oh, and another thing, how come you botanists write redcedar as one word which makes sense since it isn't cedar but you don't write white cedar as one word. And how come you don't capitalize proper names? Now, for example ornithologists do it correctly; Blue Jay refers to one particular species while all jays in the US but one are blue jays. No wonder we poor wood butchers are confused.

[ 12-24-2002, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[NormMessinger]

You guys are confusing me. What the heck is Juglans Nigra? I know what Juglans nigraL. is however. You talking about the same thing?

And, is red cedar the same thing as redcedar?

--N tongue.gif R M

Oh, and another thing, how come you botanists write redcedar as one word which makes sense since it isn't cedar but you don't write white cedar as one word. And how come you don't capitalize proper names? Now, for example ornithologists do it correctly; Blue Jay refers to one particular species while all jays in the US but one are blue jays. No wonder we poor wood butchers are confused.

[ 12-24-2002, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[NormMessinger]

You guys are confusing me. What the heck is Juglans Nigra? I know what Juglans nigraL. is however. You talking about the same thing?

And, is red cedar the same thing as redcedar?

--N tongue.gif R M

Oh, and another thing, how come you botanists write redcedar as one word which makes sense since it isn't cedar but you don't write white cedar as one word. And how come you don't capitalize proper names? Now, for example ornithologists do it correctly; Blue Jay refers to one particular species while all jays in the US but one are blue jays. No wonder we poor wood butchers are confused.

[ 12-24-2002, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[Mrleft8]

I thought Blue Jays were a baseball team from Toronto.....

[Mrleft8]

I thought Blue Jays were a baseball team from Toronto.....

[Mrleft8]

I thought Blue Jays were a baseball team from Toronto.....

[LongJohn]

Now wait a second Norm. I’m no ornithornyologist, but my bird book shows six North American jays (or is it Jays? :D ). All but the Gray Jay do seem to be basically blue in color, but how come you have birds from 4 different genera all being called jays? And then with their bigger cousins in the genus Corvus - if it’s all one genus how come the individual species are called crows, ravens or jackdaws? And you think the botanists are confusing….

With regards to the capitalization of plant common names: it seems that the real hardcores insist that absolutely no part of any common name shall ever be capitalized under any circumstances, by god! (or should it be “…by God!”) Those in this group probably wouldn’t even capitalize a common name at the beginning of a sentence if their editors didn’t do it for them. (Plant taxonomists tend to be a rather odd and meticulous bunch of social misfits who make their living by noticing and pondering the significance of minute details.) More common is to make an exception for proper names - Englemann spruce or Colorado blue spruce as opposed to white spruce. I’ve noticed that some of the more botanically respectable reference books sidestep the issue entirely by writing common names in SMALL CAPS. I do agree with you that the ornithological convention of capitalized proper common names and uncapitalized category names makes more sense.

- John

And, no, red cedar is not the same as redcedar. Eastern redcedar is Juniperus virginiana L., while red cedar refers to plants of the genus Thuja . How can you argue with logic like that? tongue.gif

[LongJohn]

Now wait a second Norm. I’m no ornithornyologist, but my bird book shows six North American jays (or is it Jays? :D ). All but the Gray Jay do seem to be basically blue in color, but how come you have birds from 4 different genera all being called jays? And then with their bigger cousins in the genus Corvus - if it’s all one genus how come the individual species are called crows, ravens or jackdaws? And you think the botanists are confusing….

With regards to the capitalization of plant common names: it seems that the real hardcores insist that absolutely no part of any common name shall ever be capitalized under any circumstances, by god! (or should it be “…by God!”) Those in this group probably wouldn’t even capitalize a common name at the beginning of a sentence if their editors didn’t do it for them. (Plant taxonomists tend to be a rather odd and meticulous bunch of social misfits who make their living by noticing and pondering the significance of minute details.) More common is to make an exception for proper names - Englemann spruce or Colorado blue spruce as opposed to white spruce. I’ve noticed that some of the more botanically respectable reference books sidestep the issue entirely by writing common names in SMALL CAPS. I do agree with you that the ornithological convention of capitalized proper common names and uncapitalized category names makes more sense.

- John

And, no, red cedar is not the same as redcedar. Eastern redcedar is Juniperus virginiana L., while red cedar refers to plants of the genus Thuja . How can you argue with logic like that? tongue.gif

[LongJohn]

Now wait a second Norm. I’m no ornithornyologist, but my bird book shows six North American jays (or is it Jays? :D ). All but the Gray Jay do seem to be basically blue in color, but how come you have birds from 4 different genera all being called jays? And then with their bigger cousins in the genus Corvus - if it’s all one genus how come the individual species are called crows, ravens or jackdaws? And you think the botanists are confusing….

With regards to the capitalization of plant common names: it seems that the real hardcores insist that absolutely no part of any common name shall ever be capitalized under any circumstances, by god! (or should it be “…by God!”) Those in this group probably wouldn’t even capitalize a common name at the beginning of a sentence if their editors didn’t do it for them. (Plant taxonomists tend to be a rather odd and meticulous bunch of social misfits who make their living by noticing and pondering the significance of minute details.) More common is to make an exception for proper names - Englemann spruce or Colorado blue spruce as opposed to white spruce. I’ve noticed that some of the more botanically respectable reference books sidestep the issue entirely by writing common names in SMALL CAPS. I do agree with you that the ornithological convention of capitalized proper common names and uncapitalized category names makes more sense.

- John

And, no, red cedar is not the same as redcedar. Eastern redcedar is Juniperus virginiana L., while red cedar refers to plants of the genus Thuja . How can you argue with logic like that? tongue.gif

[NormMessinger]

Far as I know ornithologists are the only dudes that capitalize common names but maybe they've succomed. It's been 40 years since I fought with secretaries had their own way of doing things.

Ooops, I forgot about the Grey Jay. So there are two species of jays in the US that are not blue, the Green Jay is the other.

And speaking of confusing, I see the AOU now places New World vultures with the shore birds! They are closer to storks than to diurnal birds of prey. DNA is sure making thing confusing.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Far as I know ornithologists are the only dudes that capitalize common names but maybe they've succomed. It's been 40 years since I fought with secretaries had their own way of doing things.

Ooops, I forgot about the Grey Jay. So there are two species of jays in the US that are not blue, the Green Jay is the other.

And speaking of confusing, I see the AOU now places New World vultures with the shore birds! They are closer to storks than to diurnal birds of prey. DNA is sure making thing confusing.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Far as I know ornithologists are the only dudes that capitalize common names but maybe they've succomed. It's been 40 years since I fought with secretaries had their own way of doing things.

Ooops, I forgot about the Grey Jay. So there are two species of jays in the US that are not blue, the Green Jay is the other.

And speaking of confusing, I see the AOU now places New World vultures with the shore birds! They are closer to storks than to diurnal birds of prey. DNA is sure making thing confusing.

--Norm

[Mrleft8]

I still say it's a "Big nut fizzle tree" :D

[Mrleft8]

I still say it's a "Big nut fizzle tree" :D

[Mrleft8]

I still say it's a "Big nut fizzle tree" :D

[NormMessinger]

Um, should Big nut be hyphenated?

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Um, should Big nut be hyphenated?

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Um, should Big nut be hyphenated?

--Norm

[Mrleft8]

nope

[Mrleft8]

nope

[Mrleft8]

nope