Drain tube/plug type?

[pipefitter]

I am about to completion in my Simmons 18 and I was wondering what is the best thru-hull fitting or flared drain tubes.I am going to need two possibly.One on either side of the keel plank. Are the flared tube types ok? I have only noticed what was on glass boats. Does the expansion and contraction of wood cause any problems with these. Does anyone do without drains altogether? I would rather just keep an emergency hand pump and just dry up the hull with a sponge instead of having to worry about the plugs and stoppers all the time.I know I would have to seal all wood that was exposed from boring,etc.

[pipefitter]

I am about to completion in my Simmons 18 and I was wondering what is the best thru-hull fitting or flared drain tubes.I am going to need two possibly.One on either side of the keel plank. Are the flared tube types ok? I have only noticed what was on glass boats. Does the expansion and contraction of wood cause any problems with these. Does anyone do without drains altogether? I would rather just keep an emergency hand pump and just dry up the hull with a sponge instead of having to worry about the plugs and stoppers all the time.I know I would have to seal all wood that was exposed from boring,etc.

[pipefitter]

I am about to completion in my Simmons 18 and I was wondering what is the best thru-hull fitting or flared drain tubes.I am going to need two possibly.One on either side of the keel plank. Are the flared tube types ok? I have only noticed what was on glass boats. Does the expansion and contraction of wood cause any problems with these. Does anyone do without drains altogether? I would rather just keep an emergency hand pump and just dry up the hull with a sponge instead of having to worry about the plugs and stoppers all the time.I know I would have to seal all wood that was exposed from boring,etc.

[Canoeyawl]

I don't use them, but good ones are available...
Hamilton Marine
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/prodimg/BKA-00DP105T.JPG

[Canoeyawl]

I don't use them, but good ones are available...
Hamilton Marine
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/prodimg/BKA-00DP105T.JPG

[Canoeyawl]

I don't use them, but good ones are available...
Hamilton Marine
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/prodimg/BKA-00DP105T.JPG

[Old Bingey]

I have used both the flared tube style with the expanding rubber plug like goes out the bottom of the transom and that one Canoeyawl shows which is called a "garboard plug." I have never had any trouble with either. I epoxify the hole real well and bed the housing in 5200. You can buy the flared tube style in 1 1/4" and that's my favorite for skiffs. Leaves and stuff don't stop it up as bad.

[Old Bingey]

I have used both the flared tube style with the expanding rubber plug like goes out the bottom of the transom and that one Canoeyawl shows which is called a "garboard plug." I have never had any trouble with either. I epoxify the hole real well and bed the housing in 5200. You can buy the flared tube style in 1 1/4" and that's my favorite for skiffs. Leaves and stuff don't stop it up as bad.

[Old Bingey]

I have used both the flared tube style with the expanding rubber plug like goes out the bottom of the transom and that one Canoeyawl shows which is called a "garboard plug." I have never had any trouble with either. I epoxify the hole real well and bed the housing in 5200. You can buy the flared tube style in 1 1/4" and that's my favorite for skiffs. Leaves and stuff don't stop it up as bad.

[almeyer]

Does anyone do without drains altogether? I would rather just keep an emergency hand pump and just dry up the hull with a sponge instead of having to worry about the plugs and stoppers all the time I don't have a drain and wish I did.

[almeyer]

Does anyone do without drains altogether? I would rather just keep an emergency hand pump and just dry up the hull with a sponge instead of having to worry about the plugs and stoppers all the time I don't have a drain and wish I did.

[almeyer]

Does anyone do without drains altogether? I would rather just keep an emergency hand pump and just dry up the hull with a sponge instead of having to worry about the plugs and stoppers all the time I don't have a drain and wish I did.

[Thorne]

Never seen the flared style -- anybody have a link or pic? The standard-diameter garboard plug is sold by various folks including Jamestown where I got mine, but their plug head has no handle or slot, so I'm thinking of cutting a slot in the head for ease of removal.

[Thorne]

Never seen the flared style -- anybody have a link or pic? The standard-diameter garboard plug is sold by various folks including Jamestown where I got mine, but their plug head has no handle or slot, so I'm thinking of cutting a slot in the head for ease of removal.

[Thorne]

Never seen the flared style -- anybody have a link or pic? The standard-diameter garboard plug is sold by various folks including Jamestown where I got mine, but their plug head has no handle or slot, so I'm thinking of cutting a slot in the head for ease of removal.

[pipefitter]

I have the tool at work that installs the flared type and the tubing itself. I plan on keeping the boat covered and out of the weather on it's trailer. I appreciate the input on this. It just never occurred to me about what the effects of one in a wood boat. I guess I can try it without one first and install them after if it gives a problem.
Old Bingey, I looked at your website and those are some handsome little boats you have there. Especially that Rescue Minor.That boat running that close to shore is impressive. Looks like a perfect Florida boat to me.

Thorne, the flared type consists of a piece of tubing you cut to just the proper length to fit through your transom,leaving enough extra length for a flare on either side. A tool with two dies and a long bolt is tightened in the hole to flare both ends of the tube simultaneously against the hull from either side,locking it in place.

[ 12-12-2005, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[pipefitter]

I have the tool at work that installs the flared type and the tubing itself. I plan on keeping the boat covered and out of the weather on it's trailer. I appreciate the input on this. It just never occurred to me about what the effects of one in a wood boat. I guess I can try it without one first and install them after if it gives a problem.
Old Bingey, I looked at your website and those are some handsome little boats you have there. Especially that Rescue Minor.That boat running that close to shore is impressive. Looks like a perfect Florida boat to me.

Thorne, the flared type consists of a piece of tubing you cut to just the proper length to fit through your transom,leaving enough extra length for a flare on either side. A tool with two dies and a long bolt is tightened in the hole to flare both ends of the tube simultaneously against the hull from either side,locking it in place.

[ 12-12-2005, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[pipefitter]

I have the tool at work that installs the flared type and the tubing itself. I plan on keeping the boat covered and out of the weather on it's trailer. I appreciate the input on this. It just never occurred to me about what the effects of one in a wood boat. I guess I can try it without one first and install them after if it gives a problem.
Old Bingey, I looked at your website and those are some handsome little boats you have there. Especially that Rescue Minor.That boat running that close to shore is impressive. Looks like a perfect Florida boat to me.

Thorne, the flared type consists of a piece of tubing you cut to just the proper length to fit through your transom,leaving enough extra length for a flare on either side. A tool with two dies and a long bolt is tightened in the hole to flare both ends of the tube simultaneously against the hull from either side,locking it in place.

[ 12-12-2005, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[Thorne]

I installed my garboard plug in the bottom planks of my dory skiff, temporarily taped over the bottom of the hole and saturated it with CPES, and then bedded the plug base in Vulkem 116 to match the elasticity of the wood (fir).

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/00001545.jpg

[ 12-12-2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Thorne]

I installed my garboard plug in the bottom planks of my dory skiff, temporarily taped over the bottom of the hole and saturated it with CPES, and then bedded the plug base in Vulkem 116 to match the elasticity of the wood (fir).

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/00001545.jpg

[ 12-12-2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Thorne]

I installed my garboard plug in the bottom planks of my dory skiff, temporarily taped over the bottom of the hole and saturated it with CPES, and then bedded the plug base in Vulkem 116 to match the elasticity of the wood (fir).

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/00001545.jpg

[ 12-12-2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[pipefitter]

I have fittings like that as well.Just not sure if I wanted to go that route. What got me to ask this question is that the other day I saw a boat at work that the flare fitting had gotten loose in the hole on a GRP boat. The transom on the boat was wood cored. I was just wondering if this was a problem area for wood/composite boats.
I guess again,it all comes down to maintenence and keeping an eye on thru-hull fittings. Again,thanks for the replies. Would be nice if I didnt have to put any in at all.

On the Simmons,there is a frame right against the transom.There is also a groove that acts as a limber path to evacuate the water from the space behind the frame on either side of the motor well.Adding a flare fitting would block this path and trap water in there.Immediately at that. So I guess the flare tube is out. Hadn't thought about that.When I do the next Simmons,I intend to do this frame in a different way. That smallish limber groove, hidden as it is,seems problematic to me. I suspect is why some of the Simmons boats had problems with rot at the motorwell.

Seems a better fix would be to lay that last frame back to match the motorwell tight and bed that juncture of the bottom,transom and motorwell in thickened epoxy and put the limber holes in the frame on either side of the motorwell,allowing the water to run back towards the keel plank in front of that last frame. Or to move that frame forward of the transom and support the bottom of the motorwell with knees maybe.The rear of this boat doesn't have enough fall (vee) towards the keel to satisfy me for the groove to work efficiently.Seems would that even if could get the bulk of the water out that it would still stay wet for a long time.

Maybe Ellis Rowe has some input on this or can come up with another system.I noticed he modified this area slightly on his Simmons project in the build in Wooden Boat magazine.

Thorne,Just took a look at your website and that is a nice boat you have there.

[ 12-12-2005, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[pipefitter]

I have fittings like that as well.Just not sure if I wanted to go that route. What got me to ask this question is that the other day I saw a boat at work that the flare fitting had gotten loose in the hole on a GRP boat. The transom on the boat was wood cored. I was just wondering if this was a problem area for wood/composite boats.
I guess again,it all comes down to maintenence and keeping an eye on thru-hull fittings. Again,thanks for the replies. Would be nice if I didnt have to put any in at all.

On the Simmons,there is a frame right against the transom.There is also a groove that acts as a limber path to evacuate the water from the space behind the frame on either side of the motor well.Adding a flare fitting would block this path and trap water in there.Immediately at that. So I guess the flare tube is out. Hadn't thought about that.When I do the next Simmons,I intend to do this frame in a different way. That smallish limber groove, hidden as it is,seems problematic to me. I suspect is why some of the Simmons boats had problems with rot at the motorwell.

Seems a better fix would be to lay that last frame back to match the motorwell tight and bed that juncture of the bottom,transom and motorwell in thickened epoxy and put the limber holes in the frame on either side of the motorwell,allowing the water to run back towards the keel plank in front of that last frame. Or to move that frame forward of the transom and support the bottom of the motorwell with knees maybe.The rear of this boat doesn't have enough fall (vee) towards the keel to satisfy me for the groove to work efficiently.Seems would that even if could get the bulk of the water out that it would still stay wet for a long time.

Maybe Ellis Rowe has some input on this or can come up with another system.I noticed he modified this area slightly on his Simmons project in the build in Wooden Boat magazine.

Thorne,Just took a look at your website and that is a nice boat you have there.

[ 12-12-2005, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[pipefitter]

I have fittings like that as well.Just not sure if I wanted to go that route. What got me to ask this question is that the other day I saw a boat at work that the flare fitting had gotten loose in the hole on a GRP boat. The transom on the boat was wood cored. I was just wondering if this was a problem area for wood/composite boats.
I guess again,it all comes down to maintenence and keeping an eye on thru-hull fittings. Again,thanks for the replies. Would be nice if I didnt have to put any in at all.

On the Simmons,there is a frame right against the transom.There is also a groove that acts as a limber path to evacuate the water from the space behind the frame on either side of the motor well.Adding a flare fitting would block this path and trap water in there.Immediately at that. So I guess the flare tube is out. Hadn't thought about that.When I do the next Simmons,I intend to do this frame in a different way. That smallish limber groove, hidden as it is,seems problematic to me. I suspect is why some of the Simmons boats had problems with rot at the motorwell.

Seems a better fix would be to lay that last frame back to match the motorwell tight and bed that juncture of the bottom,transom and motorwell in thickened epoxy and put the limber holes in the frame on either side of the motorwell,allowing the water to run back towards the keel plank in front of that last frame. Or to move that frame forward of the transom and support the bottom of the motorwell with knees maybe.The rear of this boat doesn't have enough fall (vee) towards the keel to satisfy me for the groove to work efficiently.Seems would that even if could get the bulk of the water out that it would still stay wet for a long time.

Maybe Ellis Rowe has some input on this or can come up with another system.I noticed he modified this area slightly on his Simmons project in the build in Wooden Boat magazine.

Thorne,Just took a look at your website and that is a nice boat you have there.

[ 12-12-2005, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[Gary E]

Look at the transom on every outboard that amounts to much, they all have the thru tube right at the bottom of the transom so whut ever come in can drain out. When you do this, seal it up good and tie the removeable plug to the boat with a good unbreakable pc of fishing line so ya wont leave it on the shelf in the garage the next time you go fishin.... or get good at whittling a plug from a tree branch... smile.gif

[Gary E]

Look at the transom on every outboard that amounts to much, they all have the thru tube right at the bottom of the transom so whut ever come in can drain out. When you do this, seal it up good and tie the removeable plug to the boat with a good unbreakable pc of fishing line so ya wont leave it on the shelf in the garage the next time you go fishin.... or get good at whittling a plug from a tree branch... smile.gif

[Gary E]

Look at the transom on every outboard that amounts to much, they all have the thru tube right at the bottom of the transom so whut ever come in can drain out. When you do this, seal it up good and tie the removeable plug to the boat with a good unbreakable pc of fishing line so ya wont leave it on the shelf in the garage the next time you go fishin.... or get good at whittling a plug from a tree branch... smile.gif

[Steve Lansdowne]

Here's a new article on the subject from Duckworks.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/drain/index.htm

[Steve Lansdowne]

Here's a new article on the subject from Duckworks.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/drain/index.htm

[Steve Lansdowne]

Here's a new article on the subject from Duckworks.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/drain/index.htm

[pipefitter]

The issue I am having is not liking the frame setup where the drain would go. That whole system with the bevel on the blind side of the frame between frame and transom is what's the real worry. In a composite boat it isnt going to leak unless it gets a hole in the hull and thats what I would have pumps for. Only time I have ever used a drain plug was in a leaky boat that would have to be fired up and run with the plug out. Those boats didnt have any pumps.
When I started this post,I hadn't considered the frame arrangement. This opens up a whole other question. Cant put bottom drains because the place where it neds to drain is in front of the outboard. To put thru-hulls there would cause cavitation at the prop.
My best bet is to see if I can live without them.

One thing about here in FL is that I am never too far from a shallow flat. If the damn thing wants to sink on me it wont have far to go to the bottom...Thanks guys for the input and the link.

GaryE...yes,they are all at the lowest point and some even trough the hull to the drain to get every last bit of water. Almost always I walk around the shop yard and push a stick in the hole to move the leaves to get all the water out so it doesn't pee allover the shop when I bring the boat in for fitting. Most boating incidents I have ever seen was due to leaving the plug out.
My own experiences were in boats that we had nicknamed things like..."Leaky Tiki" etc.

With that said,could it be possible that as many mishaps are caused by leaving the plug out as say springing a leak in the hull, if not more fault to thru-hulls?

[ 12-13-2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[pipefitter]

The issue I am having is not liking the frame setup where the drain would go. That whole system with the bevel on the blind side of the frame between frame and transom is what's the real worry. In a composite boat it isnt going to leak unless it gets a hole in the hull and thats what I would have pumps for. Only time I have ever used a drain plug was in a leaky boat that would have to be fired up and run with the plug out. Those boats didnt have any pumps.
When I started this post,I hadn't considered the frame arrangement. This opens up a whole other question. Cant put bottom drains because the place where it neds to drain is in front of the outboard. To put thru-hulls there would cause cavitation at the prop.
My best bet is to see if I can live without them.

One thing about here in FL is that I am never too far from a shallow flat. If the damn thing wants to sink on me it wont have far to go to the bottom...Thanks guys for the input and the link.

GaryE...yes,they are all at the lowest point and some even trough the hull to the drain to get every last bit of water. Almost always I walk around the shop yard and push a stick in the hole to move the leaves to get all the water out so it doesn't pee allover the shop when I bring the boat in for fitting. Most boating incidents I have ever seen was due to leaving the plug out.
My own experiences were in boats that we had nicknamed things like..."Leaky Tiki" etc.

With that said,could it be possible that as many mishaps are caused by leaving the plug out as say springing a leak in the hull, if not more fault to thru-hulls?

[ 12-13-2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]

[pipefitter]

The issue I am having is not liking the frame setup where the drain would go. That whole system with the bevel on the blind side of the frame between frame and transom is what's the real worry. In a composite boat it isnt going to leak unless it gets a hole in the hull and thats what I would have pumps for. Only time I have ever used a drain plug was in a leaky boat that would have to be fired up and run with the plug out. Those boats didnt have any pumps.
When I started this post,I hadn't considered the frame arrangement. This opens up a whole other question. Cant put bottom drains because the place where it neds to drain is in front of the outboard. To put thru-hulls there would cause cavitation at the prop.
My best bet is to see if I can live without them.

One thing about here in FL is that I am never too far from a shallow flat. If the damn thing wants to sink on me it wont have far to go to the bottom...Thanks guys for the input and the link.

GaryE...yes,they are all at the lowest point and some even trough the hull to the drain to get every last bit of water. Almost always I walk around the shop yard and push a stick in the hole to move the leaves to get all the water out so it doesn't pee allover the shop when I bring the boat in for fitting. Most boating incidents I have ever seen was due to leaving the plug out.
My own experiences were in boats that we had nicknamed things like..."Leaky Tiki" etc.

With that said,could it be possible that as many mishaps are caused by leaving the plug out as say springing a leak in the hull, if not more fault to thru-hulls?

[ 12-13-2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]