respirators

[Charles Neuman]

I'm quite confused.

First of all, when are you supposed to use a respirator? Just about every marine product has a warning about the fumes. However, one source I read suggested that just using epoxy isn't so bad, but sanding epoxy would require a respirator.

Next, which respirator? I'm looking at the 6000 series from 3M. But every marine store sells a slightly different one. For example, one has a P100 filter, another has a P95. One says it's for automotive painting, another says it's for pesticide spraying. I contacted 3m, after searching through their website. They sent me a thick guide to choosing a respirator. I would need to be a chemist to figure that out! I suspect that all these respirators available at marine stores would suffice, but I'd be happier knowing some more facts about what kinds of filters, etc. are necessary. I'll be using epoxy, gelcoat repair, and similar products.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Charles

[Charles Neuman]

I'm quite confused.

First of all, when are you supposed to use a respirator? Just about every marine product has a warning about the fumes. However, one source I read suggested that just using epoxy isn't so bad, but sanding epoxy would require a respirator.

Next, which respirator? I'm looking at the 6000 series from 3M. But every marine store sells a slightly different one. For example, one has a P100 filter, another has a P95. One says it's for automotive painting, another says it's for pesticide spraying. I contacted 3m, after searching through their website. They sent me a thick guide to choosing a respirator. I would need to be a chemist to figure that out! I suspect that all these respirators available at marine stores would suffice, but I'd be happier knowing some more facts about what kinds of filters, etc. are necessary. I'll be using epoxy, gelcoat repair, and similar products.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Charles

[Charles Neuman]

I'm quite confused.

First of all, when are you supposed to use a respirator? Just about every marine product has a warning about the fumes. However, one source I read suggested that just using epoxy isn't so bad, but sanding epoxy would require a respirator.

Next, which respirator? I'm looking at the 6000 series from 3M. But every marine store sells a slightly different one. For example, one has a P100 filter, another has a P95. One says it's for automotive painting, another says it's for pesticide spraying. I contacted 3m, after searching through their website. They sent me a thick guide to choosing a respirator. I would need to be a chemist to figure that out! I suspect that all these respirators available at marine stores would suffice, but I'd be happier knowing some more facts about what kinds of filters, etc. are necessary. I'll be using epoxy, gelcoat repair, and similar products.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Charles

[capt jake]

Wow Charles, I see what you mean. I am assuming you are talking the 1/2 face mask, right?

Hopefully Mr Chemist can help with this one but what I read out of it is that you need and organic vapor cartridge, as most chemicals fall into the organic chemistry definition. With that in mind I see 2 part numbers;
6001, simple vapor cartridge.
60921, combo vapor and dust cartridge.

Also looks like there are 2 others that offer a lesser degree of protection from organic vapors;
2097
2078 these are the p95 and p100 you refered to).

I hope this helps, here is the pdf that I used to come up with this. It is not the overly comples one that I think they sent you. Look at page 6.
3m (http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?IIIIIIrP0UXIbl3Ivl3IIIxUrtcel0m U-)

[ 12-24-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: capt jake ]

[capt jake]

Wow Charles, I see what you mean. I am assuming you are talking the 1/2 face mask, right?

Hopefully Mr Chemist can help with this one but what I read out of it is that you need and organic vapor cartridge, as most chemicals fall into the organic chemistry definition. With that in mind I see 2 part numbers;
6001, simple vapor cartridge.
60921, combo vapor and dust cartridge.

Also looks like there are 2 others that offer a lesser degree of protection from organic vapors;
2097
2078 these are the p95 and p100 you refered to).

I hope this helps, here is the pdf that I used to come up with this. It is not the overly comples one that I think they sent you. Look at page 6.
3m (http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?IIIIIIrP0UXIbl3Ivl3IIIxUrtcel0m U-)

[ 12-24-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: capt jake ]

[capt jake]

Wow Charles, I see what you mean. I am assuming you are talking the 1/2 face mask, right?

Hopefully Mr Chemist can help with this one but what I read out of it is that you need and organic vapor cartridge, as most chemicals fall into the organic chemistry definition. With that in mind I see 2 part numbers;
6001, simple vapor cartridge.
60921, combo vapor and dust cartridge.

Also looks like there are 2 others that offer a lesser degree of protection from organic vapors;
2097
2078 these are the p95 and p100 you refered to).

I hope this helps, here is the pdf that I used to come up with this. It is not the overly comples one that I think they sent you. Look at page 6.
3m (http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?IIIIIIrP0UXIbl3Ivl3IIIxUrtcel0m U-)

[ 12-24-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: capt jake ]

[NormMessinger]

Lots of opinions and preconcieved miss conceptions on this subject. Did ya notice the dude in #170 applying epoxy with a full face mask? :rolleyes:
I'd not be surpirsed if he is a smoker and watches a lot of television.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Lots of opinions and preconcieved miss conceptions on this subject. Did ya notice the dude in #170 applying epoxy with a full face mask? :rolleyes:
I'd not be surpirsed if he is a smoker and watches a lot of television.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Lots of opinions and preconcieved miss conceptions on this subject. Did ya notice the dude in #170 applying epoxy with a full face mask? :rolleyes:
I'd not be surpirsed if he is a smoker and watches a lot of television.

--Norm

[capt jake]

I still don't have #170. :( Personally, I don't use a respirator with epoxy, now paints are another story! Shellac and denatured alcohol just knock me out.

[capt jake]

I still don't have #170. :( Personally, I don't use a respirator with epoxy, now paints are another story! Shellac and denatured alcohol just knock me out.

[capt jake]

I still don't have #170. :( Personally, I don't use a respirator with epoxy, now paints are another story! Shellac and denatured alcohol just knock me out.

[Nicholas Carey]

Dont' forget if you're playing with lead (red lead primer, white lead putty) or other heavy metals (bottom paint, cuprinol, etc.), you're going to need a filter for toxic dusts as well.

3m has software available to choose the appropriate respirator and cartridge combinations for your needs here: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/software.html

You can run it on the web site.

And they publish the 2002 Respirator Selection Guide here:

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?ZZZZZZHFRjmZsB&ZlB&ZZZOy1JVyyyyx-

Get your MSDS, pick your chemical(s) and choose the appropriate tool for the job.

The 3m Safety web site: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/index.html

Publication List: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/publications.html

Hope this helps.

[Nicholas Carey]

Dont' forget if you're playing with lead (red lead primer, white lead putty) or other heavy metals (bottom paint, cuprinol, etc.), you're going to need a filter for toxic dusts as well.

3m has software available to choose the appropriate respirator and cartridge combinations for your needs here: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/software.html

You can run it on the web site.

And they publish the 2002 Respirator Selection Guide here:

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?ZZZZZZHFRjmZsB&ZlB&ZZZOy1JVyyyyx-

Get your MSDS, pick your chemical(s) and choose the appropriate tool for the job.

The 3m Safety web site: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/index.html

Publication List: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/publications.html

Hope this helps.

[Nicholas Carey]

Dont' forget if you're playing with lead (red lead primer, white lead putty) or other heavy metals (bottom paint, cuprinol, etc.), you're going to need a filter for toxic dusts as well.

3m has software available to choose the appropriate respirator and cartridge combinations for your needs here: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/software.html

You can run it on the web site.

And they publish the 2002 Respirator Selection Guide here:

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?ZZZZZZHFRjmZsB&ZlB&ZZZOy1JVyyyyx-

Get your MSDS, pick your chemical(s) and choose the appropriate tool for the job.

The 3m Safety web site: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/index.html

Publication List: http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/publications.html

Hope this helps.

[Charles Neuman]

Thanks for all the responses. That 3m respirator selection guide is what they sent me. So I guess I need to do some more work. I know that epoxy manufacturers publish MSDS info for their products. I think I need to then figure out what my exposure would be. And then I'll be in business.

Any ideas on figuring out how much exposure for a contaminant?

Sheesh. I figured it would be as easy as "if you're working with epoxy, use this respirator." I don't mind doing my homework, but I'm surprised even the epoxy manufacturers can't just recommend a respirator. I guess nobody wants that responsibility.

Charles

[Charles Neuman]

Thanks for all the responses. That 3m respirator selection guide is what they sent me. So I guess I need to do some more work. I know that epoxy manufacturers publish MSDS info for their products. I think I need to then figure out what my exposure would be. And then I'll be in business.

Any ideas on figuring out how much exposure for a contaminant?

Sheesh. I figured it would be as easy as "if you're working with epoxy, use this respirator." I don't mind doing my homework, but I'm surprised even the epoxy manufacturers can't just recommend a respirator. I guess nobody wants that responsibility.

Charles

[Charles Neuman]

Thanks for all the responses. That 3m respirator selection guide is what they sent me. So I guess I need to do some more work. I know that epoxy manufacturers publish MSDS info for their products. I think I need to then figure out what my exposure would be. And then I'll be in business.

Any ideas on figuring out how much exposure for a contaminant?

Sheesh. I figured it would be as easy as "if you're working with epoxy, use this respirator." I don't mind doing my homework, but I'm surprised even the epoxy manufacturers can't just recommend a respirator. I guess nobody wants that responsibility.

Charles

[NormMessinger]

I don't know what kind of epoxy you are using but if it is WEST or System Three a phone call will answer all your questions. System Three answers email the same day, in my experience.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

I don't know what kind of epoxy you are using but if it is WEST or System Three a phone call will answer all your questions. System Three answers email the same day, in my experience.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

I don't know what kind of epoxy you are using but if it is WEST or System Three a phone call will answer all your questions. System Three answers email the same day, in my experience.

--Norm

[On Vacation]

If you are working inside a closed area, use a respirator with the equivalant of and equal to one that you would use with spray paints. Numbers you ask, I can't give you exact ones right now, but ask for the filters that are recommended for imron paints and automotive Concepts 2000 ? I think and also Amerflints.

Epoxy and gelcoat finishes are two completely different animals. Flash points with gelcoats along with odors being used inside is much lower and the odor is much stronger. Epoxy is a "carbon monoxide" style killer when repeated use is being done inside. Its too late when you notice the effects. The fast cure mixes will be more noticable with odor in a closed area.

[On Vacation]

If you are working inside a closed area, use a respirator with the equivalant of and equal to one that you would use with spray paints. Numbers you ask, I can't give you exact ones right now, but ask for the filters that are recommended for imron paints and automotive Concepts 2000 ? I think and also Amerflints.

Epoxy and gelcoat finishes are two completely different animals. Flash points with gelcoats along with odors being used inside is much lower and the odor is much stronger. Epoxy is a "carbon monoxide" style killer when repeated use is being done inside. Its too late when you notice the effects. The fast cure mixes will be more noticable with odor in a closed area.

[On Vacation]

If you are working inside a closed area, use a respirator with the equivalant of and equal to one that you would use with spray paints. Numbers you ask, I can't give you exact ones right now, but ask for the filters that are recommended for imron paints and automotive Concepts 2000 ? I think and also Amerflints.

Epoxy and gelcoat finishes are two completely different animals. Flash points with gelcoats along with odors being used inside is much lower and the odor is much stronger. Epoxy is a "carbon monoxide" style killer when repeated use is being done inside. Its too late when you notice the effects. The fast cure mixes will be more noticable with odor in a closed area.

[Wiley Baggins]

Part, but not all, of the problem here is that many chemicals have a "use respirator" warning. The reason is that you may, depending on your process, be exposed above "safe" levels. The fly in the ointment is that most users (commercial or otherwise) don't have the will/means to quantify the hazard.

Many times the warnings are not applicable. However, one thing to keep in mind is that you can't be underexposed.

Respiratory protection is a modest expense, and the potential return on the investment is enormous.

[Wiley Baggins]

Part, but not all, of the problem here is that many chemicals have a "use respirator" warning. The reason is that you may, depending on your process, be exposed above "safe" levels. The fly in the ointment is that most users (commercial or otherwise) don't have the will/means to quantify the hazard.

Many times the warnings are not applicable. However, one thing to keep in mind is that you can't be underexposed.

Respiratory protection is a modest expense, and the potential return on the investment is enormous.

[Wiley Baggins]

Part, but not all, of the problem here is that many chemicals have a "use respirator" warning. The reason is that you may, depending on your process, be exposed above "safe" levels. The fly in the ointment is that most users (commercial or otherwise) don't have the will/means to quantify the hazard.

Many times the warnings are not applicable. However, one thing to keep in mind is that you can't be underexposed.

Respiratory protection is a modest expense, and the potential return on the investment is enormous.

[capt jake]

Epoxy is a "carbon monoxide" style killer when repeated use is being done inside Can you expand upon this? Are you saying it gives off carbon monoxide? Or another chemical that excluded O2 absorbtion into the bloodstream (which is what CO does)?

[capt jake]

Epoxy is a "carbon monoxide" style killer when repeated use is being done inside Can you expand upon this? Are you saying it gives off carbon monoxide? Or another chemical that excluded O2 absorbtion into the bloodstream (which is what CO does)?

[capt jake]

Epoxy is a "carbon monoxide" style killer when repeated use is being done inside Can you expand upon this? Are you saying it gives off carbon monoxide? Or another chemical that excluded O2 absorbtion into the bloodstream (which is what CO does)?

[NormMessinger]

The quotes and the word style are significant. That is to say like CO the effects are cumulative and unnoticed until it may be too late. I've never seen the hazard, tiny as it may be, described that way but I'll bet that's what he ment.

--Norm

[ 12-24-2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[NormMessinger]

The quotes and the word style are significant. That is to say like CO the effects are cumulative and unnoticed until it may be too late. I've never seen the hazard, tiny as it may be, described that way but I'll bet that's what he ment.

--Norm

[ 12-24-2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[NormMessinger]

The quotes and the word style are significant. That is to say like CO the effects are cumulative and unnoticed until it may be too late. I've never seen the hazard, tiny as it may be, described that way but I'll bet that's what he ment.

--Norm

[ 12-24-2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[Charles Neuman]

Oyster wrote:
> Epoxy and gelcoat finishes are two completely different animals.

Does your advice for working with epoxy apply to working with gelcoat, in terms of using a respirator?

Wiley Baggins wrote:
> you can't be underexposed

Yeah, I'd like to play it safe. I was using a product for cleaning and polishing fiberglass decks. (Are we allowed to use the "f" word on this forum? Sorry, I'm new here.) The product had a bunch of scary warnings on it. I was outdoors, but my lungs still felt a little constricted afterwards, and I had a cough for a minute. I might be sensitive to fumes like that.

[Charles Neuman]

Oyster wrote:
> Epoxy and gelcoat finishes are two completely different animals.

Does your advice for working with epoxy apply to working with gelcoat, in terms of using a respirator?

Wiley Baggins wrote:
> you can't be underexposed

Yeah, I'd like to play it safe. I was using a product for cleaning and polishing fiberglass decks. (Are we allowed to use the "f" word on this forum? Sorry, I'm new here.) The product had a bunch of scary warnings on it. I was outdoors, but my lungs still felt a little constricted afterwards, and I had a cough for a minute. I might be sensitive to fumes like that.

[Charles Neuman]

Oyster wrote:
> Epoxy and gelcoat finishes are two completely different animals.

Does your advice for working with epoxy apply to working with gelcoat, in terms of using a respirator?

Wiley Baggins wrote:
> you can't be underexposed

Yeah, I'd like to play it safe. I was using a product for cleaning and polishing fiberglass decks. (Are we allowed to use the "f" word on this forum? Sorry, I'm new here.) The product had a bunch of scary warnings on it. I was outdoors, but my lungs still felt a little constricted afterwards, and I had a cough for a minute. I might be sensitive to fumes like that.

[capt jake]

That is to say like CO2 the effects are cumulative and unnoticed until it may be too late Actually, I think we were talking CO (carbon Monoxide). Totally different beast than CO2 (Carbon diaoxide).

Epoxy VS gelcoat? Good question.. I believe that gelcoats are in the polyester family of stuff! smile.gif That stuff stinks and IS nasty on you.

Now when I say I don't use a respirator with epoxy it is two fold; one; it take a long time to get the required task done (meaning the mask is unbearable after many hours of use) and two; I always have at least 'some' ventilation happening.

Now this is strictly ME and I can definitely stand to be corrected.

[capt jake]

That is to say like CO2 the effects are cumulative and unnoticed until it may be too late Actually, I think we were talking CO (carbon Monoxide). Totally different beast than CO2 (Carbon diaoxide).

Epoxy VS gelcoat? Good question.. I believe that gelcoats are in the polyester family of stuff! smile.gif That stuff stinks and IS nasty on you.

Now when I say I don't use a respirator with epoxy it is two fold; one; it take a long time to get the required task done (meaning the mask is unbearable after many hours of use) and two; I always have at least 'some' ventilation happening.

Now this is strictly ME and I can definitely stand to be corrected.

[capt jake]

That is to say like CO2 the effects are cumulative and unnoticed until it may be too late Actually, I think we were talking CO (carbon Monoxide). Totally different beast than CO2 (Carbon diaoxide).

Epoxy VS gelcoat? Good question.. I believe that gelcoats are in the polyester family of stuff! smile.gif That stuff stinks and IS nasty on you.

Now when I say I don't use a respirator with epoxy it is two fold; one; it take a long time to get the required task done (meaning the mask is unbearable after many hours of use) and two; I always have at least 'some' ventilation happening.

Now this is strictly ME and I can definitely stand to be corrected.

[Bob Aberton]

a respirator...

[Bob Aberton]

a respirator...

[Bob Aberton]

a respirator...

[Bob Aberton]

Aah...nothin' like the feel of sawdust in your lungs...

I knew epoxies were unsafe, but I didn't know you needed a respirator for them...I've been working with the goop in an unventilated shop for two years...

I didn't know sanding bottom paint was dangerous either...I do that in an enclosed space, too...

So am I headed for lung failure or something?

[Bob Aberton]

Aah...nothin' like the feel of sawdust in your lungs...

I knew epoxies were unsafe, but I didn't know you needed a respirator for them...I've been working with the goop in an unventilated shop for two years...

I didn't know sanding bottom paint was dangerous either...I do that in an enclosed space, too...

So am I headed for lung failure or something?

[Bob Aberton]

Aah...nothin' like the feel of sawdust in your lungs...

I knew epoxies were unsafe, but I didn't know you needed a respirator for them...I've been working with the goop in an unventilated shop for two years...

I didn't know sanding bottom paint was dangerous either...I do that in an enclosed space, too...

So am I headed for lung failure or something?

[capt jake]

Bob, maybe we can share a ward or somthing?? Been there done that, too many years to mention.

BTW making out with the girl next door with cause hair loss. And eating.......... smile.gif smile.gif

[capt jake]

Bob, maybe we can share a ward or somthing?? Been there done that, too many years to mention.

BTW making out with the girl next door with cause hair loss. And eating.......... smile.gif smile.gif

[capt jake]

Bob, maybe we can share a ward or somthing?? Been there done that, too many years to mention.

BTW making out with the girl next door with cause hair loss. And eating.......... smile.gif smile.gif

[NormMessinger]

I think we were talking CO (carbon Monoxide)

Ooops, indeed you were. My mistake so I've edited it out. I made a mistake once before too. redface.gif Back in '52 I did somthing the I thought was wrong but it turned out I was mistaken. tongue.gif

I understand that epoxy is a contact irritant so there is little danger from smelling it. No resperator needed with reasonable ventilation. Sanding dust that contains unbonded hardener acts as a contact to the lungs.

Anybody have a direct citation from a manufacturer?

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

I think we were talking CO (carbon Monoxide)

Ooops, indeed you were. My mistake so I've edited it out. I made a mistake once before too. redface.gif Back in '52 I did somthing the I thought was wrong but it turned out I was mistaken. tongue.gif

I understand that epoxy is a contact irritant so there is little danger from smelling it. No resperator needed with reasonable ventilation. Sanding dust that contains unbonded hardener acts as a contact to the lungs.

Anybody have a direct citation from a manufacturer?

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

I think we were talking CO (carbon Monoxide)

Ooops, indeed you were. My mistake so I've edited it out. I made a mistake once before too. redface.gif Back in '52 I did somthing the I thought was wrong but it turned out I was mistaken. tongue.gif

I understand that epoxy is a contact irritant so there is little danger from smelling it. No resperator needed with reasonable ventilation. Sanding dust that contains unbonded hardener acts as a contact to the lungs.

Anybody have a direct citation from a manufacturer?

--Norm

[capt jake]

I understand that epoxy is a contact irritant so there is little danger from smelling it. No resperator needed with reasonable ventilation. Sanding dust that contains unbonded hardener acts as a contact to the lungs Now that was my understanding also... Thanks Norm! As that is what I do!! Painting or polyester, a whole different bannana!!

Happy Ho Ho!!

[capt jake]

I understand that epoxy is a contact irritant so there is little danger from smelling it. No resperator needed with reasonable ventilation. Sanding dust that contains unbonded hardener acts as a contact to the lungs Now that was my understanding also... Thanks Norm! As that is what I do!! Painting or polyester, a whole different bannana!!

Happy Ho Ho!!

[capt jake]

I understand that epoxy is a contact irritant so there is little danger from smelling it. No resperator needed with reasonable ventilation. Sanding dust that contains unbonded hardener acts as a contact to the lungs Now that was my understanding also... Thanks Norm! As that is what I do!! Painting or polyester, a whole different bannana!!

Happy Ho Ho!!

[On Vacation]

As Norm states, Gelcoats are pigmented polyester resin. Nasty in even an open area at the least. As far as carbon monoxide I speak about, epoxy attacks your liver, skin, lungs and blood stream in a manner that monoxide fumes will do. Chemical poisoning of the system is created over time. From a chemist standpoint, I cannot tell you the specifics on this action. But I can tell you in the industry, many people suffer short and longterm effects of this action. We take Milk Thistle to regenerate our livers.

A respirator is essential in a closed enviroment to minimize this issue. Do you need it for a one time project? All I know is the many issues that exist working under these conditions. You are playing Russian Roulette in most cases if using it during the winter months in a basement or garage.

Grinding bottom paint in a closed enviroment is , non I tread on thin ice, is probably what happened to Wild Dingo. ;) Nah, a big wink is encluded in this statement. But that is not being a smart citizen.

[On Vacation]

As Norm states, Gelcoats are pigmented polyester resin. Nasty in even an open area at the least. As far as carbon monoxide I speak about, epoxy attacks your liver, skin, lungs and blood stream in a manner that monoxide fumes will do. Chemical poisoning of the system is created over time. From a chemist standpoint, I cannot tell you the specifics on this action. But I can tell you in the industry, many people suffer short and longterm effects of this action. We take Milk Thistle to regenerate our livers.

A respirator is essential in a closed enviroment to minimize this issue. Do you need it for a one time project? All I know is the many issues that exist working under these conditions. You are playing Russian Roulette in most cases if using it during the winter months in a basement or garage.

Grinding bottom paint in a closed enviroment is , non I tread on thin ice, is probably what happened to Wild Dingo. ;) Nah, a big wink is encluded in this statement. But that is not being a smart citizen.

[On Vacation]

As Norm states, Gelcoats are pigmented polyester resin. Nasty in even an open area at the least. As far as carbon monoxide I speak about, epoxy attacks your liver, skin, lungs and blood stream in a manner that monoxide fumes will do. Chemical poisoning of the system is created over time. From a chemist standpoint, I cannot tell you the specifics on this action. But I can tell you in the industry, many people suffer short and longterm effects of this action. We take Milk Thistle to regenerate our livers.

A respirator is essential in a closed enviroment to minimize this issue. Do you need it for a one time project? All I know is the many issues that exist working under these conditions. You are playing Russian Roulette in most cases if using it during the winter months in a basement or garage.

Grinding bottom paint in a closed enviroment is , non I tread on thin ice, is probably what happened to Wild Dingo. ;) Nah, a big wink is encluded in this statement. But that is not being a smart citizen.

[capt jake]

So now I have to wear a respirator when doing ALL aspects of boat building AND playing with the girl next door?!? Don't take that literally, you get my point, I hope??

So many things have changed over the years, what you can and can not eat, for example has done a 180 turn around. Asbestos? There is so much behind that story to make your head spin!!

[capt jake]

So now I have to wear a respirator when doing ALL aspects of boat building AND playing with the girl next door?!? Don't take that literally, you get my point, I hope??

So many things have changed over the years, what you can and can not eat, for example has done a 180 turn around. Asbestos? There is so much behind that story to make your head spin!!

[capt jake]

So now I have to wear a respirator when doing ALL aspects of boat building AND playing with the girl next door?!? Don't take that literally, you get my point, I hope??

So many things have changed over the years, what you can and can not eat, for example has done a 180 turn around. Asbestos? There is so much behind that story to make your head spin!!

[On Vacation]

Ever wonder why a resin manufacturer will not recommend a specific safety equipment? Several reasons I can think of, the unknown and scare tactics for sales. I don't mean to do either. When you use this liquid to solid chemical, many factors play into the safe operation and use of it. It is too bad many users died of bone marrow cancer in the development of this product.

Is it a good product? Yes by all means. It is sold to the average Joe without addressing some problems of it. Do you use gas in a closed basement? Does the gas station have warnings on the pumps that gas causes cancer in rats?

Airborne uncured resin IS the one of the worse part about this in a closed enviroment. Many have used a dust masks in mowing lawns and during pollen season. Decide for yourself.

[On Vacation]

Ever wonder why a resin manufacturer will not recommend a specific safety equipment? Several reasons I can think of, the unknown and scare tactics for sales. I don't mean to do either. When you use this liquid to solid chemical, many factors play into the safe operation and use of it. It is too bad many users died of bone marrow cancer in the development of this product.

Is it a good product? Yes by all means. It is sold to the average Joe without addressing some problems of it. Do you use gas in a closed basement? Does the gas station have warnings on the pumps that gas causes cancer in rats?

Airborne uncured resin IS the one of the worse part about this in a closed enviroment. Many have used a dust masks in mowing lawns and during pollen season. Decide for yourself.

[On Vacation]

Ever wonder why a resin manufacturer will not recommend a specific safety equipment? Several reasons I can think of, the unknown and scare tactics for sales. I don't mean to do either. When you use this liquid to solid chemical, many factors play into the safe operation and use of it. It is too bad many users died of bone marrow cancer in the development of this product.

Is it a good product? Yes by all means. It is sold to the average Joe without addressing some problems of it. Do you use gas in a closed basement? Does the gas station have warnings on the pumps that gas causes cancer in rats?

Airborne uncured resin IS the one of the worse part about this in a closed enviroment. Many have used a dust masks in mowing lawns and during pollen season. Decide for yourself.

[capt jake]

Not meaning any descrespect, do you where a respirator ALL of the time in the shop? Or while mowing the lawn?

I do not mean ANY disrespect, I am only querious and relate to so many changes in perspectives on the different topics concerning what is bad and what is good (or acceptable). Asbestos is a classic example of the government manipulating the system; and then forging off on private ventures......

Oops, didn't mean to take it in a political direction (though that is where much of this is based)!
Sorry!

[capt jake]

Not meaning any descrespect, do you where a respirator ALL of the time in the shop? Or while mowing the lawn?

I do not mean ANY disrespect, I am only querious and relate to so many changes in perspectives on the different topics concerning what is bad and what is good (or acceptable). Asbestos is a classic example of the government manipulating the system; and then forging off on private ventures......

Oops, didn't mean to take it in a political direction (though that is where much of this is based)!
Sorry!

[capt jake]

Not meaning any descrespect, do you where a respirator ALL of the time in the shop? Or while mowing the lawn?

I do not mean ANY disrespect, I am only querious and relate to so many changes in perspectives on the different topics concerning what is bad and what is good (or acceptable). Asbestos is a classic example of the government manipulating the system; and then forging off on private ventures......

Oops, didn't mean to take it in a political direction (though that is where much of this is based)!
Sorry!

[On Vacation]

All that I am saying is so many take far more precautions with even short term natural enviromental issues than they wish to practice using hazards with known long term health problems. Check with your local fiberglass boat shops and talk to the gelcoat sprayers and visit your local paint and body shop and talk with your long term spray man.. Look at what it has done to me over the longhaul. You think I am goofy??? Don't answer that. :D

Yes I have seen the effects of chemical poisoning from epoxy. I have been lucky to wake up in time to realize a lot of the sensitve issues of it and work around this part of it.

[ 12-24-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[On Vacation]

All that I am saying is so many take far more precautions with even short term natural enviromental issues than they wish to practice using hazards with known long term health problems. Check with your local fiberglass boat shops and talk to the gelcoat sprayers and visit your local paint and body shop and talk with your long term spray man.. Look at what it has done to me over the longhaul. You think I am goofy??? Don't answer that. :D

Yes I have seen the effects of chemical poisoning from epoxy. I have been lucky to wake up in time to realize a lot of the sensitve issues of it and work around this part of it.

[ 12-24-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[On Vacation]

All that I am saying is so many take far more precautions with even short term natural enviromental issues than they wish to practice using hazards with known long term health problems. Check with your local fiberglass boat shops and talk to the gelcoat sprayers and visit your local paint and body shop and talk with your long term spray man.. Look at what it has done to me over the longhaul. You think I am goofy??? Don't answer that. :D

Yes I have seen the effects of chemical poisoning from epoxy. I have been lucky to wake up in time to realize a lot of the sensitve issues of it and work around this part of it.

[ 12-24-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[capt jake]

All that I am saying is so many take far more precautions with even short term natural enviromental issues than they wish to practice using hazards with known long term health problemsCopy that, Oyster!! All in proportion!! I see what you are saying now!

Happy Holidays!

[capt jake]

All that I am saying is so many take far more precautions with even short term natural enviromental issues than they wish to practice using hazards with known long term health problemsCopy that, Oyster!! All in proportion!! I see what you are saying now!

Happy Holidays!

[capt jake]

All that I am saying is so many take far more precautions with even short term natural enviromental issues than they wish to practice using hazards with known long term health problemsCopy that, Oyster!! All in proportion!! I see what you are saying now!

Happy Holidays!

[Gary Bergman]

We take our respirators seriously in the construction/welding field. Stop going to marine stores. Any good const. supplier will have tons of them. I;m a half-face wilson person myself for the most part. Purple coded filters, and you are all set. P.S. you shouldn't need it for the girl next door. If you do, move.

[Gary Bergman]

We take our respirators seriously in the construction/welding field. Stop going to marine stores. Any good const. supplier will have tons of them. I;m a half-face wilson person myself for the most part. Purple coded filters, and you are all set. P.S. you shouldn't need it for the girl next door. If you do, move.

[Gary Bergman]

We take our respirators seriously in the construction/welding field. Stop going to marine stores. Any good const. supplier will have tons of them. I;m a half-face wilson person myself for the most part. Purple coded filters, and you are all set. P.S. you shouldn't need it for the girl next door. If you do, move.

[Scott Rosen]

A good place to get respirators is a seller of professional automotive finishes. The guys who work with that stuff professionally usually have the best equipment around for the kind of stuff we boat folks use.

[Scott Rosen]

A good place to get respirators is a seller of professional automotive finishes. The guys who work with that stuff professionally usually have the best equipment around for the kind of stuff we boat folks use.

[Scott Rosen]

A good place to get respirators is a seller of professional automotive finishes. The guys who work with that stuff professionally usually have the best equipment around for the kind of stuff we boat folks use.

[On Vacation]

Don't want to muddy the waters but this is just tidbit of info about this issue:
FYI:
Chemical exposure affect one in two ways: the chemical may be poisonous, or the exposure may cause an allergic reaction. These two are different things. Many food ingredients are not poisonous, still they may cause even lethal symptoms to a person allergic to them.

Poisonous qualities of chemicals
A chemical acts as poison, if it enters the body in large enough amounts to disturb the functions of the body or to damage some organ. For example the poison effects of solvents appear after long exposure. Liver is the organ that breaks down the foreign chemicals that have entered the body. Long, heavy exposure to poisonous chemicals can therefore cause liver enlargement or damage. The kidneys filter the blood of foreign chemicals. These may damage the kidneys, preventing the kidneys from functioning (partially or wholly). Solvents soften the cell membranes, weakening the nerve impulses, and causing a state of intoxication.

Breathing in poisonous substances damages the lungs. Very high concentrations may cause edema and infections. Poisonous chemicals cause changes in the DNA or disturb the copying process of the DNA. Reproduction is disturbed, and offspring may suffer from malformations.

Luckily these symptoms often appear only after long exposures to strong concentrations of the chemicals, which are uncommon when building model aeroplanes.

Allergy
When the body recognises a chemical as foreign, the white blood cells produce counter-substances that cause the production of histamines. This results in allergic symptoms, that usually re-appear easily if the exposure is repeated. this is due to that the body 'remembers' the properties and the counter-substances for a long time.

Allergic symptoms
Most typical skin symptoms are different kinds of eczema. Symptoms of the respiratory organs, such as running nose and squeezing develop much more rapidly than chemical poisoning.

Some substances used in model building
Resins
Epoxy resins usually contain epichlorohydrine, which is a harmful chemical that corrodes skin and membranes. It is quite non-evaporative, though. Another chemical found in epoxy resins is bisphenol-A. It is harmful, and may penetrate the skin. Repeated skin contact may cause allergy and even skin infections. Expended exposure to gaseous particles may cause asthma. In resent research bisphenol-A has been found to be estrogenic, so it may change the hormonal balance of the body. The hardeners and reactive thinners of epoxy resins cause easily allergies. Exposure may lead to a allergic eczema, that is later activated by minimal amounts of the chemical.

Polyester resins
Polyester resins do not cause allergy as easily as epoxies, though some cases caused by cobalt used as accelerator or tert-buthylcatecol used as slowing agent have been reported. The most harmful component of polyester resin is the styrene, used as a solvent. Styrene is harmful, and possibly even carcinogenic.

Glues

Another common side effect from epoxy resins:
http://www.ehendrick.org/healthy/00064500.html

Scleroderma

Scleroderma is usually diagnosed between the ages of 30 and 50. Although it affects people of all races, it is four times more common in women than men. Higher incidences of scleroderma are found in Choctaw Native Americans and Afro-American women. Some cases of scleroderma have been reported in people who have been exposed to certain toxins, such as silica dust, epoxy resins, benzine, toluene, and polyvinyl chloride. This disease can run in families.
------------------------------------------------
This link below that was done by the plastics industry shows the use of epoxy to coat the insides of cans to minimize corrosion and the low amounts or occassional use is safe. But the mixing of bulk batches for use in boat projects is another story. You are handling raw material and involved directly in the transfering from liquid to solid state and the dispersing of the chemical reaction into the air.

http://www.socplas.org/about/epoxy/cancoatings.htm
This is what you can see. Its what you can't see that you are unable to fix until its too late.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p50c4de1d82dd0365687ebd8c4a7041dd/fcfa8578.jpg

Well enough said by me here. But I just can't say enough about protection with this product. Make your own decision.

[ 12-25-2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[On Vacation]

Don't want to muddy the waters but this is just tidbit of info about this issue:
FYI:
Chemical exposure affect one in two ways: the chemical may be poisonous, or the exposure may cause an allergic reaction. These two are different things. Many food ingredients are not poisonous, still they may cause even lethal symptoms to a person allergic to them.

Poisonous qualities of chemicals
A chemical acts as poison, if it enters the body in large enough amounts to disturb the functions of the body or to damage some organ. For example the poison effects of solvents appear after long exposure. Liver is the organ that breaks down the foreign chemicals that have entered the body. Long, heavy exposure to poisonous chemicals can therefore cause liver enlargement or damage. The kidneys filter the blood of foreign chemicals. These may damage the kidneys, preventing the kidneys from functioning (partially or wholly). Solvents soften the cell membranes, weakening the nerve impulses, and causing a state of intoxication.

Breathing in poisonous substances damages the lungs. Very high concentrations may cause edema and infections. Poisonous chemicals cause changes in the DNA or disturb the copying process of the DNA. Reproduction is disturbed, and offspring may suffer from malformations.

Luckily these symptoms often appear only after long exposures to strong concentrations of the chemicals, which are uncommon when building model aeroplanes.

Allergy
When the body recognises a chemical as foreign, the white blood cells produce counter-substances that cause the production of histamines. This results in allergic symptoms, that usually re-appear easily if the exposure is repeated. this is due to that the body 'remembers' the properties and the counter-substances for a long time.

Allergic symptoms
Most typical skin symptoms are different kinds of eczema. Symptoms of the respiratory organs, such as running nose and squeezing develop much more rapidly than chemical poisoning.

Some substances used in model building
Resins
Epoxy resins usually contain epichlorohydrine, which is a harmful chemical that corrodes skin and membranes. It is quite non-evaporative, though. Another chemical found in epoxy resins is bisphenol-A. It is harmful, and may penetrate the skin. Repeated skin contact may cause allergy and even skin infections. Expended exposure to gaseous particles may cause asthma. In resent research bisphenol-A has been found to be estrogenic, so it may change the hormonal balance of the body. The hardeners and reactive thinners of epoxy resins cause easily allergies. Exposure may lead to a allergic eczema, that is later activated by minimal amounts of the chemical.

Polyester resins
Polyester resins do not cause allergy as easily as epoxies, though some cases caused by cobalt used as accelerator or tert-buthylcatecol used as slowing agent have been reported. The most harmful component of polyester resin is the styrene, used as a solvent. Styrene is harmful, and possibly even carcinogenic.

Glues

Another common side effect from epoxy resins:
http://www.ehendrick.org/healthy/00064500.html

Scleroderma

Scleroderma is usually diagnosed between the ages of 30 and 50. Although it affects people of all races, it is four times more common in women than men. Higher incidences of scleroderma are found in Choctaw Native Americans and Afro-American women. Some cases of scleroderma have been reported in people who have been exposed to certain toxins, such as silica dust, epoxy resins, benzine, toluene, and polyvinyl chloride. This disease can run in families.
------------------------------------------------
This link below that was done by the plastics industry shows the use of epoxy to coat the insides of cans to minimize corrosion and the low amounts or occassional use is safe. But the mixing of bulk batches for use in boat projects is another story. You are handling raw material and involved directly in the transfering from liquid to solid state and the dispersing of the chemical reaction into the air.

http://www.socplas.org/about/epoxy/cancoatings.htm
This is what you can see. Its what you can't see that you are unable to fix until its too late.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p50c4de1d82dd0365687ebd8c4a7041dd/fcfa8578.jpg

Well enough said by me here. But I just can't say enough about protection with this product. Make your own decision.

[ 12-25-2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[On Vacation]

Don't want to muddy the waters but this is just tidbit of info about this issue:
FYI:
Chemical exposure affect one in two ways: the chemical may be poisonous, or the exposure may cause an allergic reaction. These two are different things. Many food ingredients are not poisonous, still they may cause even lethal symptoms to a person allergic to them.

Poisonous qualities of chemicals
A chemical acts as poison, if it enters the body in large enough amounts to disturb the functions of the body or to damage some organ. For example the poison effects of solvents appear after long exposure. Liver is the organ that breaks down the foreign chemicals that have entered the body. Long, heavy exposure to poisonous chemicals can therefore cause liver enlargement or damage. The kidneys filter the blood of foreign chemicals. These may damage the kidneys, preventing the kidneys from functioning (partially or wholly). Solvents soften the cell membranes, weakening the nerve impulses, and causing a state of intoxication.

Breathing in poisonous substances damages the lungs. Very high concentrations may cause edema and infections. Poisonous chemicals cause changes in the DNA or disturb the copying process of the DNA. Reproduction is disturbed, and offspring may suffer from malformations.

Luckily these symptoms often appear only after long exposures to strong concentrations of the chemicals, which are uncommon when building model aeroplanes.

Allergy
When the body recognises a chemical as foreign, the white blood cells produce counter-substances that cause the production of histamines. This results in allergic symptoms, that usually re-appear easily if the exposure is repeated. this is due to that the body 'remembers' the properties and the counter-substances for a long time.

Allergic symptoms
Most typical skin symptoms are different kinds of eczema. Symptoms of the respiratory organs, such as running nose and squeezing develop much more rapidly than chemical poisoning.

Some substances used in model building
Resins
Epoxy resins usually contain epichlorohydrine, which is a harmful chemical that corrodes skin and membranes. It is quite non-evaporative, though. Another chemical found in epoxy resins is bisphenol-A. It is harmful, and may penetrate the skin. Repeated skin contact may cause allergy and even skin infections. Expended exposure to gaseous particles may cause asthma. In resent research bisphenol-A has been found to be estrogenic, so it may change the hormonal balance of the body. The hardeners and reactive thinners of epoxy resins cause easily allergies. Exposure may lead to a allergic eczema, that is later activated by minimal amounts of the chemical.

Polyester resins
Polyester resins do not cause allergy as easily as epoxies, though some cases caused by cobalt used as accelerator or tert-buthylcatecol used as slowing agent have been reported. The most harmful component of polyester resin is the styrene, used as a solvent. Styrene is harmful, and possibly even carcinogenic.

Glues

Another common side effect from epoxy resins:
http://www.ehendrick.org/healthy/00064500.html

Scleroderma

Scleroderma is usually diagnosed between the ages of 30 and 50. Although it affects people of all races, it is four times more common in women than men. Higher incidences of scleroderma are found in Choctaw Native Americans and Afro-American women. Some cases of scleroderma have been reported in people who have been exposed to certain toxins, such as silica dust, epoxy resins, benzine, toluene, and polyvinyl chloride. This disease can run in families.
------------------------------------------------
This link below that was done by the plastics industry shows the use of epoxy to coat the insides of cans to minimize corrosion and the low amounts or occassional use is safe. But the mixing of bulk batches for use in boat projects is another story. You are handling raw material and involved directly in the transfering from liquid to solid state and the dispersing of the chemical reaction into the air.

http://www.socplas.org/about/epoxy/cancoatings.htm
This is what you can see. Its what you can't see that you are unable to fix until its too late.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/p50c4de1d82dd0365687ebd8c4a7041dd/fcfa8578.jpg

Well enough said by me here. But I just can't say enough about protection with this product. Make your own decision.

[ 12-25-2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[capt jake]

Well Thank you! I stand better educated at this point! Thanks!

[capt jake]

Well Thank you! I stand better educated at this point! Thanks!

[capt jake]

Well Thank you! I stand better educated at this point! Thanks!

[Wild Wassa]

Captain Jack, My posts are often pot belly stove talk. For the readers who are on the thread at the moment, a lot of posts do not remain. The one post can evolve over a full day, :D . It's a good way for me to debrief. The Forun is my Councillor, ;) . This is not a suck eggs, certainly not to the experienced. I hope I have not missinterpreted your post. How could I tell you guys to suck eggs?

Warren.

[ 12-25-2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Wild Wassa]

Captain Jack, My posts are often pot belly stove talk. For the readers who are on the thread at the moment, a lot of posts do not remain. The one post can evolve over a full day, :D . It's a good way for me to debrief. The Forun is my Councillor, ;) . This is not a suck eggs, certainly not to the experienced. I hope I have not missinterpreted your post. How could I tell you guys to suck eggs?

Warren.

[ 12-25-2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Wild Wassa]

Captain Jack, My posts are often pot belly stove talk. For the readers who are on the thread at the moment, a lot of posts do not remain. The one post can evolve over a full day, :D . It's a good way for me to debrief. The Forun is my Councillor, ;) . This is not a suck eggs, certainly not to the experienced. I hope I have not missinterpreted your post. How could I tell you guys to suck eggs?

Warren.

[ 12-25-2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[capt jake]

No Warren, you didn't missinterpret. I also thought it was a good way to get some of this information out, and clarify some of my questions at the same time.

I get amuzed at times when looking at TWA's and such;

My comments on asbestos come from when the US Government began to regulate it in the 80's. Played havoc with car mgf's and the like (not to mention Canada). The permissible limits to work aorund it are less than normally occures in downtown Spokane, WA on a summer day! They went a tad overboard! The individuals who forged most of the regulations went off to form... you guessed it. At the time they were the ONLY certified abatement company. Talk about building your business.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the comments and information that you all have shared. I didn't intend upon hijacking Mr Neuman's thread, but it served as good education. smile.gif

[capt jake]

No Warren, you didn't missinterpret. I also thought it was a good way to get some of this information out, and clarify some of my questions at the same time.

I get amuzed at times when looking at TWA's and such;

My comments on asbestos come from when the US Government began to regulate it in the 80's. Played havoc with car mgf's and the like (not to mention Canada). The permissible limits to work aorund it are less than normally occures in downtown Spokane, WA on a summer day! They went a tad overboard! The individuals who forged most of the regulations went off to form... you guessed it. At the time they were the ONLY certified abatement company. Talk about building your business.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the comments and information that you all have shared. I didn't intend upon hijacking Mr Neuman's thread, but it served as good education. smile.gif

[capt jake]

No Warren, you didn't missinterpret. I also thought it was a good way to get some of this information out, and clarify some of my questions at the same time.

I get amuzed at times when looking at TWA's and such;

My comments on asbestos come from when the US Government began to regulate it in the 80's. Played havoc with car mgf's and the like (not to mention Canada). The permissible limits to work aorund it are less than normally occures in downtown Spokane, WA on a summer day! They went a tad overboard! The individuals who forged most of the regulations went off to form... you guessed it. At the time they were the ONLY certified abatement company. Talk about building your business.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the comments and information that you all have shared. I didn't intend upon hijacking Mr Neuman's thread, but it served as good education. smile.gif

[Wild Wassa]

Captain Jack, Thanks. The emails can be worth my comments, their Author's support is rewarding, as is the Forum.

I'm the try hard novice, Sir, ... the original.

Warren.

[ 12-25-2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Wild Wassa]

Captain Jack, Thanks. The emails can be worth my comments, their Author's support is rewarding, as is the Forum.

I'm the try hard novice, Sir, ... the original.

Warren.

[ 12-25-2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Wild Wassa]

Captain Jack, Thanks. The emails can be worth my comments, their Author's support is rewarding, as is the Forum.

I'm the try hard novice, Sir, ... the original.

Warren.

[ 12-25-2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Charles Neuman]

Here are some excerpts from things I have read regarding safety. I'm new to this, so you can see from the excerpts below why I might be concerned. However, after rereading the safety info, I have come to the conclusion that when working with epoxy, you need a respirator if you dont' have good ventilation. And you should always use a respirator when sanding partially cured epoxy. And keep epoxy off your skin.

--- From the MAS Epoxies catalog: "Sam Devlin on Safety"

"The most controversial aspect of epoxy use is the matter of safety. There is no way around it: The improper use of epoxy can be injurious and hazardous to your health.... Wear safety glasses, respirators and gloves. Tyvek suits are great protection...

"[He offers an example of someone being careless:] The professional was a reckless fool in all aspects of his life. He refused to use gloves and would plunge his hands into acetone at the end of each job to clean off half-cured resin. While using urethane paints, he would refuse to wear even the simplest dust-filter mask, let alone an organic-vapor respirator or even a fresh-air system. Predictably, he experienced lung damage from the uretheane paint and spent several days spitting up blood. In addition, the exposure to the epoxy caused a rash on both wrists and his forehead that resembled a reaction to poison oak. The rash would disappear after five or six days if he stayed clear of epoxy, but as soon as he walked back into the shop, it would reappear. In the end, he had to give up boatbuilding with epoxy altogether, and the last I heard of him, he was at work in a can factory....

"After fifteen years of using epoxies almost daily, the only reaction I notice is a slight constriction of the throat during extended use. But when I use a respirator, I never experience the throat irritation....

"Extreme caution should also be used when sanding partially cured (green) epoxy surafces, as may happen in the winter in an unheated shop. Always wear a respirator and protective clothing."

--- Also from the MAS Expoxies catalog: "Safe Boat Building" by David Carnell

"Don't breathe the vapors (fumes) of materials you are using. Don't breathe dust or smoke. If you smell anything you are working with, you need better ventialtion or protective equipment....

"Most epoxy resins have no vapor problems. The hazard is possible sensitization by the hardeners from excessive skin contact...."

--- From The Epoxy Book, a publication of System Three

"The primary hazard when working with an epoxy system is skin irritation leading to skin sensitization from prolonged and repeated contact. Many people who become sensitized are unable to continue working with epoxies without breaking out in a rash commonly on the inside of the forearms and on the forehead above the eyebrows....

"The vapor pressure of epoxy resin and hardener is so high that fumes rarely cause problems, unless you have already become sensitized. Well-cured resin should cause no problem, as it is largely inert.

"Whenever sanding or creating any knnd of dust, wear a mask to keep the dust out of your lungs."

--- From the West Systems User Manual

"3. Avoid breathing concentrated vapors and sanding dust. WEST SYSTEM epoxies have low VOC content, but vapors can build up in unvented spaces. Provide ample ventilation when working with epoxy in cofined spaces, such as boat interiors. When adequate ventilation is not possible, wear a NIOSH approved respirator with an organic vapor cartridge. Provide ventialtion and wear a dust mask when sanding epoxy, especially partially cured epoxy. Breathing partially cured epoxy dust increases your risk of sensitization...."

--- From the Glen-L Eposy system Technical Manual

"4. Avoid inhalation of vapors and dust, especially from partially cured or 'green' epoxy (total cure may take from 4 to 7 days or longer depending on condiditons). Wear a sanding mask whenever dust is present along with protective clothing when sanding coated surfaces that have not cured for a least seven days...."

So there you have it. As for what kind of respirator, "organic cartridge" is mentioned. As for the filters, it's not clear exactly what kind, but if a dust mask is OK, then I would guess that either a P95 or P100 filter on a respirator would be OK.

Charles

[ 12-25-2002, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Charles Neuman ]

[Charles Neuman]

Here are some excerpts from things I have read regarding safety. I'm new to this, so you can see from the excerpts below why I might be concerned. However, after rereading the safety info, I have come to the conclusion that when working with epoxy, you need a respirator if you dont' have good ventilation. And you should always use a respirator when sanding partially cured epoxy. And keep epoxy off your skin.

--- From the MAS Epoxies catalog: "Sam Devlin on Safety"

"The most controversial aspect of epoxy use is the matter of safety. There is no way around it: The improper use of epoxy can be injurious and hazardous to your health.... Wear safety glasses, respirators and gloves. Tyvek suits are great protection...

"[He offers an example of someone being careless:] The professional was a reckless fool in all aspects of his life. He refused to use gloves and would plunge his hands into acetone at the end of each job to clean off half-cured resin. While using urethane paints, he would refuse to wear even the simplest dust-filter mask, let alone an organic-vapor respirator or even a fresh-air system. Predictably, he experienced lung damage from the uretheane paint and spent several days spitting up blood. In addition, the exposure to the epoxy caused a rash on both wrists and his forehead that resembled a reaction to poison oak. The rash would disappear after five or six days if he stayed clear of epoxy, but as soon as he walked back into the shop, it would reappear. In the end, he had to give up boatbuilding with epoxy altogether, and the last I heard of him, he was at work in a can factory....

"After fifteen years of using epoxies almost daily, the only reaction I notice is a slight constriction of the throat during extended use. But when I use a respirator, I never experience the throat irritation....

"Extreme caution should also be used when sanding partially cured (green) epoxy surafces, as may happen in the winter in an unheated shop. Always wear a respirator and protective clothing."

--- Also from the MAS Expoxies catalog: "Safe Boat Building" by David Carnell

"Don't breathe the vapors (fumes) of materials you are using. Don't breathe dust or smoke. If you smell anything you are working with, you need better ventialtion or protective equipment....

"Most epoxy resins have no vapor problems. The hazard is possible sensitization by the hardeners from excessive skin contact...."

--- From The Epoxy Book, a publication of System Three

"The primary hazard when working with an epoxy system is skin irritation leading to skin sensitization from prolonged and repeated contact. Many people who become sensitized are unable to continue working with epoxies without breaking out in a rash commonly on the inside of the forearms and on the forehead above the eyebrows....

"The vapor pressure of epoxy resin and hardener is so high that fumes rarely cause problems, unless you have already become sensitized. Well-cured resin should cause no problem, as it is largely inert.

"Whenever sanding or creating any knnd of dust, wear a mask to keep the dust out of your lungs."

--- From the West Systems User Manual

"3. Avoid breathing concentrated vapors and sanding dust. WEST SYSTEM epoxies have low VOC content, but vapors can build up in unvented spaces. Provide ample ventilation when working with epoxy in cofined spaces, such as boat interiors. When adequate ventilation is not possible, wear a NIOSH approved respirator with an organic vapor cartridge. Provide ventialtion and wear a dust mask when sanding epoxy, especially partially cured epoxy. Breathing partially cured epoxy dust increases your risk of sensitization...."

--- From the Glen-L Eposy system Technical Manual

"4. Avoid inhalation of vapors and dust, especially from partially cured or 'green' epoxy (total cure may take from 4 to 7 days or longer depending on condiditons). Wear a sanding mask whenever dust is present along with protective clothing when sanding coated surfaces that have not cured for a least seven days...."

So there you have it. As for what kind of respirator, "organic cartridge" is mentioned. As for the filters, it's not clear exactly what kind, but if a dust mask is OK, then I would guess that either a P95 or P100 filter on a respirator would be OK.

Charles

[ 12-25-2002, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Charles Neuman ]

[Charles Neuman]

Here are some excerpts from things I have read regarding safety. I'm new to this, so you can see from the excerpts below why I might be concerned. However, after rereading the safety info, I have come to the conclusion that when working with epoxy, you need a respirator if you dont' have good ventilation. And you should always use a respirator when sanding partially cured epoxy. And keep epoxy off your skin.

--- From the MAS Epoxies catalog: "Sam Devlin on Safety"

"The most controversial aspect of epoxy use is the matter of safety. There is no way around it: The improper use of epoxy can be injurious and hazardous to your health.... Wear safety glasses, respirators and gloves. Tyvek suits are great protection...

"[He offers an example of someone being careless:] The professional was a reckless fool in all aspects of his life. He refused to use gloves and would plunge his hands into acetone at the end of each job to clean off half-cured resin. While using urethane paints, he would refuse to wear even the simplest dust-filter mask, let alone an organic-vapor respirator or even a fresh-air system. Predictably, he experienced lung damage from the uretheane paint and spent several days spitting up blood. In addition, the exposure to the epoxy caused a rash on both wrists and his forehead that resembled a reaction to poison oak. The rash would disappear after five or six days if he stayed clear of epoxy, but as soon as he walked back into the shop, it would reappear. In the end, he had to give up boatbuilding with epoxy altogether, and the last I heard of him, he was at work in a can factory....

"After fifteen years of using epoxies almost daily, the only reaction I notice is a slight constriction of the throat during extended use. But when I use a respirator, I never experience the throat irritation....

"Extreme caution should also be used when sanding partially cured (green) epoxy surafces, as may happen in the winter in an unheated shop. Always wear a respirator and protective clothing."

--- Also from the MAS Expoxies catalog: "Safe Boat Building" by David Carnell

"Don't breathe the vapors (fumes) of materials you are using. Don't breathe dust or smoke. If you smell anything you are working with, you need better ventialtion or protective equipment....

"Most epoxy resins have no vapor problems. The hazard is possible sensitization by the hardeners from excessive skin contact...."

--- From The Epoxy Book, a publication of System Three

"The primary hazard when working with an epoxy system is skin irritation leading to skin sensitization from prolonged and repeated contact. Many people who become sensitized are unable to continue working with epoxies without breaking out in a rash commonly on the inside of the forearms and on the forehead above the eyebrows....

"The vapor pressure of epoxy resin and hardener is so high that fumes rarely cause problems, unless you have already become sensitized. Well-cured resin should cause no problem, as it is largely inert.

"Whenever sanding or creating any knnd of dust, wear a mask to keep the dust out of your lungs."

--- From the West Systems User Manual

"3. Avoid breathing concentrated vapors and sanding dust. WEST SYSTEM epoxies have low VOC content, but vapors can build up in unvented spaces. Provide ample ventilation when working with epoxy in cofined spaces, such as boat interiors. When adequate ventilation is not possible, wear a NIOSH approved respirator with an organic vapor cartridge. Provide ventialtion and wear a dust mask when sanding epoxy, especially partially cured epoxy. Breathing partially cured epoxy dust increases your risk of sensitization...."

--- From the Glen-L Eposy system Technical Manual

"4. Avoid inhalation of vapors and dust, especially from partially cured or 'green' epoxy (total cure may take from 4 to 7 days or longer depending on condiditons). Wear a sanding mask whenever dust is present along with protective clothing when sanding coated surfaces that have not cured for a least seven days...."

So there you have it. As for what kind of respirator, "organic cartridge" is mentioned. As for the filters, it's not clear exactly what kind, but if a dust mask is OK, then I would guess that either a P95 or P100 filter on a respirator would be OK.

Charles

[ 12-25-2002, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Charles Neuman ]

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Very educational thread. I am guilty of using any number of things without protection, but dust masks I use for sanding. I am also contemplating getting a decent mask, since I have some bilge painting and cleaning in the spring that will not have a lot of ventilation.I guess you get older and less reckless.One question I still have... I know that Linear polyurethanes use piped in air systems.. How cum? what makes them different from other two step polyurethanes that can use masks...?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Very educational thread. I am guilty of using any number of things without protection, but dust masks I use for sanding. I am also contemplating getting a decent mask, since I have some bilge painting and cleaning in the spring that will not have a lot of ventilation.I guess you get older and less reckless.One question I still have... I know that Linear polyurethanes use piped in air systems.. How cum? what makes them different from other two step polyurethanes that can use masks...?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Very educational thread. I am guilty of using any number of things without protection, but dust masks I use for sanding. I am also contemplating getting a decent mask, since I have some bilge painting and cleaning in the spring that will not have a lot of ventilation.I guess you get older and less reckless.One question I still have... I know that Linear polyurethanes use piped in air systems.. How cum? what makes them different from other two step polyurethanes that can use masks...?

[thechemist]

Originally posted by Peter Malcolm:
<snip> One question I still have... I know that Linear polyurethanes use piped in air systems.. How cum? what makes them different from other two step polyurethanes that can use masks...?It all depends on how conservative a lawyer the paint company had advising them.

All two-part isocyanate-cured polyurethanes contain isocyanates in the spray mist, and isocyanate vapor if you stick your nose in the paint pot or six inches from the surface you are brushing it onto.

For purposes of this discussion, asume we are talking about aliphatic [a chemist's word for a straight molecular chain] or linear [an ordinary person's name for the same thing] isocyanates, rather than aromatic [a chemist's word for a six-membered ring with three double-bonds] isocyanates. Your aliphatic paint contains the former. Gorilla Glue contains the latter.

Two-component aliphatic polyurethane paints all contain about one percent of hexamethylene diisocyanate monomer, and it has a vapor pressure sufficient to constitute a health hazard if you breathe too much of it, which is not very much. Nowhere near as bad as Gorilla Glue, but still worth protecting yourself from.

Isocyanates are more polar than solvents, and so bond more strongly to activated charcoal such as is used in the Organic Vapor Filter Cartridges. When using such cartridges in a filter mask, both solvent and isocyanate vapor are trapped; when the cartridge is near exhaustion, the solvent vapor begins to break through, and one can smell the solvents. The isocyanates have not yet broken through, and so one is still protected from the most hazardous components of the air. One should then change the filter cartridges.

In the normal [extremely low] concentrations of isocyanates in the painting envoronment, these things have no detectable odor. Thus, there is no olfactory or other cue to tell the user when to change cartridges, if one were in an environment containing only isocyanates. In the painting environment there are solvents that give warning, but legal liability is not always in the real world.

For that reason, there are no isocyanate-rated filter cartridges. There is simply too wide a door through which a lawyer could walk. No manufacturer could prove his filter cartridge was not deficient, and was not responsible for the wretched condition of some person who screwed themselves up as people occasionally do.

The more conservative paint manufacturers thus state that external air supply is required, and sometimes even state that the air for the external-air-supply air compressor must be obtained from upwind.

[thechemist]

Originally posted by Peter Malcolm:
<snip> One question I still have... I know that Linear polyurethanes use piped in air systems.. How cum? what makes them different from other two step polyurethanes that can use masks...?It all depends on how conservative a lawyer the paint company had advising them.

All two-part isocyanate-cured polyurethanes contain isocyanates in the spray mist, and isocyanate vapor if you stick your nose in the paint pot or six inches from the surface you are brushing it onto.

For purposes of this discussion, asume we are talking about aliphatic [a chemist's word for a straight molecular chain] or linear [an ordinary person's name for the same thing] isocyanates, rather than aromatic [a chemist's word for a six-membered ring with three double-bonds] isocyanates. Your aliphatic paint contains the former. Gorilla Glue contains the latter.

Two-component aliphatic polyurethane paints all contain about one percent of hexamethylene diisocyanate monomer, and it has a vapor pressure sufficient to constitute a health hazard if you breathe too much of it, which is not very much. Nowhere near as bad as Gorilla Glue, but still worth protecting yourself from.

Isocyanates are more polar than solvents, and so bond more strongly to activated charcoal such as is used in the Organic Vapor Filter Cartridges. When using such cartridges in a filter mask, both solvent and isocyanate vapor are trapped; when the cartridge is near exhaustion, the solvent vapor begins to break through, and one can smell the solvents. The isocyanates have not yet broken through, and so one is still protected from the most hazardous components of the air. One should then change the filter cartridges.

In the normal [extremely low] concentrations of isocyanates in the painting envoronment, these things have no detectable odor. Thus, there is no olfactory or other cue to tell the user when to change cartridges, if one were in an environment containing only isocyanates. In the painting environment there are solvents that give warning, but legal liability is not always in the real world.

For that reason, there are no isocyanate-rated filter cartridges. There is simply too wide a door through which a lawyer could walk. No manufacturer could prove his filter cartridge was not deficient, and was not responsible for the wretched condition of some person who screwed themselves up as people occasionally do.

The more conservative paint manufacturers thus state that external air supply is required, and sometimes even state that the air for the external-air-supply air compressor must be obtained from upwind.

[thechemist]

Originally posted by Peter Malcolm:
<snip> One question I still have... I know that Linear polyurethanes use piped in air systems.. How cum? what makes them different from other two step polyurethanes that can use masks...?It all depends on how conservative a lawyer the paint company had advising them.

All two-part isocyanate-cured polyurethanes contain isocyanates in the spray mist, and isocyanate vapor if you stick your nose in the paint pot or six inches from the surface you are brushing it onto.

For purposes of this discussion, asume we are talking about aliphatic [a chemist's word for a straight molecular chain] or linear [an ordinary person's name for the same thing] isocyanates, rather than aromatic [a chemist's word for a six-membered ring with three double-bonds] isocyanates. Your aliphatic paint contains the former. Gorilla Glue contains the latter.

Two-component aliphatic polyurethane paints all contain about one percent of hexamethylene diisocyanate monomer, and it has a vapor pressure sufficient to constitute a health hazard if you breathe too much of it, which is not very much. Nowhere near as bad as Gorilla Glue, but still worth protecting yourself from.

Isocyanates are more polar than solvents, and so bond more strongly to activated charcoal such as is used in the Organic Vapor Filter Cartridges. When using such cartridges in a filter mask, both solvent and isocyanate vapor are trapped; when the cartridge is near exhaustion, the solvent vapor begins to break through, and one can smell the solvents. The isocyanates have not yet broken through, and so one is still protected from the most hazardous components of the air. One should then change the filter cartridges.

In the normal [extremely low] concentrations of isocyanates in the painting envoronment, these things have no detectable odor. Thus, there is no olfactory or other cue to tell the user when to change cartridges, if one were in an environment containing only isocyanates. In the painting environment there are solvents that give warning, but legal liability is not always in the real world.

For that reason, there are no isocyanate-rated filter cartridges. There is simply too wide a door through which a lawyer could walk. No manufacturer could prove his filter cartridge was not deficient, and was not responsible for the wretched condition of some person who screwed themselves up as people occasionally do.

The more conservative paint manufacturers thus state that external air supply is required, and sometimes even state that the air for the external-air-supply air compressor must be obtained from upwind.

[htom]

I don't wear a respirator when mowing the lawn (I do wear hearing protection, though) but I wear a 6000 series with Organic Vapor cartridge when fertilizing.

Same for working with paints, removers, ... unless the quantity is misiscule (quantity of paint remover to clean a 12" square patch of deck, say, or the epoxy to glue together a lamp fixture.)

I change out the cartridge whenever I smell anything.

I use the same mask with a dust filter when using dust-producing power tools in the shop, and hearing protection, and eye protection.

[htom]

I don't wear a respirator when mowing the lawn (I do wear hearing protection, though) but I wear a 6000 series with Organic Vapor cartridge when fertilizing.

Same for working with paints, removers, ... unless the quantity is misiscule (quantity of paint remover to clean a 12" square patch of deck, say, or the epoxy to glue together a lamp fixture.)

I change out the cartridge whenever I smell anything.

I use the same mask with a dust filter when using dust-producing power tools in the shop, and hearing protection, and eye protection.

[htom]

I don't wear a respirator when mowing the lawn (I do wear hearing protection, though) but I wear a 6000 series with Organic Vapor cartridge when fertilizing.

Same for working with paints, removers, ... unless the quantity is misiscule (quantity of paint remover to clean a 12" square patch of deck, say, or the epoxy to glue together a lamp fixture.)

I change out the cartridge whenever I smell anything.

I use the same mask with a dust filter when using dust-producing power tools in the shop, and hearing protection, and eye protection.

[On Vacation]

Store your respirator in a ziplock bag and you will get a longer life from it. Most 3m ones come in a bag that you can zip up. Put it back in the bag. Wipe out the inside rubber front to give you a better morning after smell the next time you have the need for it.

[On Vacation]

Store your respirator in a ziplock bag and you will get a longer life from it. Most 3m ones come in a bag that you can zip up. Put it back in the bag. Wipe out the inside rubber front to give you a better morning after smell the next time you have the need for it.

[On Vacation]

Store your respirator in a ziplock bag and you will get a longer life from it. Most 3m ones come in a bag that you can zip up. Put it back in the bag. Wipe out the inside rubber front to give you a better morning after smell the next time you have the need for it.