Outboard recommendations....

[Leigh]

OK....looking at a small portable outboard for getting the smallish (8') flat bottom inflatable from beach to mooring.
The guy I'm buying the boat from has been using a 3HP thats about 20 years old and is "a bit touchy" to start....so he tells me. Time for a new engine, I think.
So far I'm looking at a Yamaha 2 stroke 3HP or a Mercury 3.3 2 stroke (the Merc has been recommended by one guy as a better quality unit????). Also been offered a Johnson 3.5 but I've been told by another dealer that those engines are being discontinued and aren't the most reliable anyway......
So, friends and neighbours......chime in with opinions on the above.....At the moment, I'm leaning toward the Yamaha.
Thanks

[Leigh]

OK....looking at a small portable outboard for getting the smallish (8') flat bottom inflatable from beach to mooring.
The guy I'm buying the boat from has been using a 3HP thats about 20 years old and is "a bit touchy" to start....so he tells me. Time for a new engine, I think.
So far I'm looking at a Yamaha 2 stroke 3HP or a Mercury 3.3 2 stroke (the Merc has been recommended by one guy as a better quality unit????). Also been offered a Johnson 3.5 but I've been told by another dealer that those engines are being discontinued and aren't the most reliable anyway......
So, friends and neighbours......chime in with opinions on the above.....At the moment, I'm leaning toward the Yamaha.
Thanks

[Leigh]

OK....looking at a small portable outboard for getting the smallish (8') flat bottom inflatable from beach to mooring.
The guy I'm buying the boat from has been using a 3HP thats about 20 years old and is "a bit touchy" to start....so he tells me. Time for a new engine, I think.
So far I'm looking at a Yamaha 2 stroke 3HP or a Mercury 3.3 2 stroke (the Merc has been recommended by one guy as a better quality unit????). Also been offered a Johnson 3.5 but I've been told by another dealer that those engines are being discontinued and aren't the most reliable anyway......
So, friends and neighbours......chime in with opinions on the above.....At the moment, I'm leaning toward the Yamaha.
Thanks

[Corrib]

Leigh, I would go with Yamaha. A lot of the hire boats here have small yamaha outboards and they seem to go for ever no matter what the treatment. I also have a couple of outboards both Yamaha never had a problem with them.

Kevin

[Corrib]

Leigh, I would go with Yamaha. A lot of the hire boats here have small yamaha outboards and they seem to go for ever no matter what the treatment. I also have a couple of outboards both Yamaha never had a problem with them.

Kevin

[Corrib]

Leigh, I would go with Yamaha. A lot of the hire boats here have small yamaha outboards and they seem to go for ever no matter what the treatment. I also have a couple of outboards both Yamaha never had a problem with them.

Kevin

[Paul Fitzgerald]

The Mercury/Mariner 3.3 is a rebadged Tohatsu 3.5. The 2.2 is the same engine with a restrictor plate in the carby inlet. Most of the racing J24's use this motor as it is light, pushes them OK and meets class regs. It is usually stored on the keel when racing.
Im a big fan of Tohatsu 5's, had a few over the years. They punch well above their weight, and mine have been bulletproof.
I also have a 3.3 which managed to push a dirty two ton Folkboat to hull speed (usual motor is the 5hp). Look for a model with a clutch, but you probably wont need reverse.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

The Mercury/Mariner 3.3 is a rebadged Tohatsu 3.5. The 2.2 is the same engine with a restrictor plate in the carby inlet. Most of the racing J24's use this motor as it is light, pushes them OK and meets class regs. It is usually stored on the keel when racing.
Im a big fan of Tohatsu 5's, had a few over the years. They punch well above their weight, and mine have been bulletproof.
I also have a 3.3 which managed to push a dirty two ton Folkboat to hull speed (usual motor is the 5hp). Look for a model with a clutch, but you probably wont need reverse.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

The Mercury/Mariner 3.3 is a rebadged Tohatsu 3.5. The 2.2 is the same engine with a restrictor plate in the carby inlet. Most of the racing J24's use this motor as it is light, pushes them OK and meets class regs. It is usually stored on the keel when racing.
Im a big fan of Tohatsu 5's, had a few over the years. They punch well above their weight, and mine have been bulletproof.
I also have a 3.3 which managed to push a dirty two ton Folkboat to hull speed (usual motor is the 5hp). Look for a model with a clutch, but you probably wont need reverse.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Leigh:
OK....looking at a small portable outboard for getting the smallish (8') flat bottom inflatable from beach to mooring.
The smallest HP and the Lightest weight motor will make your lugging it around easy. No matter how small, it's still powerfull enuf for a inflatable.

I used a 2 1/2 HP Johnson on a 8 ft pram, it had no clutch or reverse and it's not gona be missed.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Leigh:
OK....looking at a small portable outboard for getting the smallish (8') flat bottom inflatable from beach to mooring.
The smallest HP and the Lightest weight motor will make your lugging it around easy. No matter how small, it's still powerfull enuf for a inflatable.

I used a 2 1/2 HP Johnson on a 8 ft pram, it had no clutch or reverse and it's not gona be missed.

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Leigh:
OK....looking at a small portable outboard for getting the smallish (8') flat bottom inflatable from beach to mooring.
The smallest HP and the Lightest weight motor will make your lugging it around easy. No matter how small, it's still powerfull enuf for a inflatable.

I used a 2 1/2 HP Johnson on a 8 ft pram, it had no clutch or reverse and it's not gona be missed.

[David Gilroy]

My 2HP Honda 4-stroke pushes my Penobscot 17 very well. Always starts. smile.gif

[David Gilroy]

My 2HP Honda 4-stroke pushes my Penobscot 17 very well. Always starts. smile.gif

[David Gilroy]

My 2HP Honda 4-stroke pushes my Penobscot 17 very well. Always starts. smile.gif

[Zane Lewis]

Well I'll push for the 3.3 with clutch and the 360 mount for reverse. We have one on an 8' RIB and it will do 10 knts (GPS) 1 up but won't plane 2 up. That slightly larger prop and bigger reduction gear box gives a lot more push when you need it. As stated before the 3.3's are often just 2.2's that are alloweed to rev higher to develop more power. Think about pushing home into 30 kts and a slopy sea. You will get wet but will a 2.2 push an inflatible into this?. Anyway the only penalty to go from a 2.2 to 3.3 is cost not weight

[Zane Lewis]

Well I'll push for the 3.3 with clutch and the 360 mount for reverse. We have one on an 8' RIB and it will do 10 knts (GPS) 1 up but won't plane 2 up. That slightly larger prop and bigger reduction gear box gives a lot more push when you need it. As stated before the 3.3's are often just 2.2's that are alloweed to rev higher to develop more power. Think about pushing home into 30 kts and a slopy sea. You will get wet but will a 2.2 push an inflatible into this?. Anyway the only penalty to go from a 2.2 to 3.3 is cost not weight

[Zane Lewis]

Well I'll push for the 3.3 with clutch and the 360 mount for reverse. We have one on an 8' RIB and it will do 10 knts (GPS) 1 up but won't plane 2 up. That slightly larger prop and bigger reduction gear box gives a lot more push when you need it. As stated before the 3.3's are often just 2.2's that are alloweed to rev higher to develop more power. Think about pushing home into 30 kts and a slopy sea. You will get wet but will a 2.2 push an inflatible into this?. Anyway the only penalty to go from a 2.2 to 3.3 is cost not weight

[John Hastie]

Good old Evinrude Lightwin 3.

[John Hastie]

Good old Evinrude Lightwin 3.

[John Hastie]

Good old Evinrude Lightwin 3.

[High C]

What Zane and Paul said. i have the nissan version of this same (Tohatsu) motor, a 3.5 hp with forward and neutral.

It's a fine machine, light, starts easily, and has never faltered.

[High C]

What Zane and Paul said. i have the nissan version of this same (Tohatsu) motor, a 3.5 hp with forward and neutral.

It's a fine machine, light, starts easily, and has never faltered.

[High C]

What Zane and Paul said. i have the nissan version of this same (Tohatsu) motor, a 3.5 hp with forward and neutral.

It's a fine machine, light, starts easily, and has never faltered.

[sbsbw]

Get a four Stroke, you won't regret it

[sbsbw]

Get a four Stroke, you won't regret it

[sbsbw]

Get a four Stroke, you won't regret it

[paladin]

SACRILEGE.....only a SEAGULL will do.....

[paladin]

SACRILEGE.....only a SEAGULL will do.....

[paladin]

SACRILEGE.....only a SEAGULL will do.....

[Mike Vogdes]

I knew the Seagull would sneak in this thread sooner or later... faster than a pregnant turtle more powerfull than a man with two broken oars, they will definetly hear you comin no doubt about it...

I vote for a Honda followed close second by the Yamaha.. 4 stroke for sure.

[Mike Vogdes]

I knew the Seagull would sneak in this thread sooner or later... faster than a pregnant turtle more powerfull than a man with two broken oars, they will definetly hear you comin no doubt about it...

I vote for a Honda followed close second by the Yamaha.. 4 stroke for sure.

[Mike Vogdes]

I knew the Seagull would sneak in this thread sooner or later... faster than a pregnant turtle more powerfull than a man with two broken oars, they will definetly hear you comin no doubt about it...

I vote for a Honda followed close second by the Yamaha.. 4 stroke for sure.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Four strokes are just peachy when they are new. But they have not been around long enough for all to hear about what it takes to rehab one.
All that jiggery-pokery that goes on in a 4-stroke means that there are an aweful lot of pieces that can wear and break and cost BIG bucks to replace.
One of the reasons that there are still Johnnyrudes from the '50's and '60's still doing sterling service is that they are 2-STROKES. A bore job, a piston and ring set to match, a gasket set and you've just done an overhaul.
The most common failing that ruins an outboard is waterpump failure and overheating. Do that on a 4-stoke and the hardened steel valve seats may fall out, bend valves, break pistons, yadda, yadda , yadda.
To all you 4-stroke acholytes, "gather ye rosebuds while ye may", your first 4-stroke overhaul may give you a coronary.
Charlie

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Four strokes are just peachy when they are new. But they have not been around long enough for all to hear about what it takes to rehab one.
All that jiggery-pokery that goes on in a 4-stroke means that there are an aweful lot of pieces that can wear and break and cost BIG bucks to replace.
One of the reasons that there are still Johnnyrudes from the '50's and '60's still doing sterling service is that they are 2-STROKES. A bore job, a piston and ring set to match, a gasket set and you've just done an overhaul.
The most common failing that ruins an outboard is waterpump failure and overheating. Do that on a 4-stoke and the hardened steel valve seats may fall out, bend valves, break pistons, yadda, yadda , yadda.
To all you 4-stroke acholytes, "gather ye rosebuds while ye may", your first 4-stroke overhaul may give you a coronary.
Charlie

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Four strokes are just peachy when they are new. But they have not been around long enough for all to hear about what it takes to rehab one.
All that jiggery-pokery that goes on in a 4-stroke means that there are an aweful lot of pieces that can wear and break and cost BIG bucks to replace.
One of the reasons that there are still Johnnyrudes from the '50's and '60's still doing sterling service is that they are 2-STROKES. A bore job, a piston and ring set to match, a gasket set and you've just done an overhaul.
The most common failing that ruins an outboard is waterpump failure and overheating. Do that on a 4-stoke and the hardened steel valve seats may fall out, bend valves, break pistons, yadda, yadda , yadda.
To all you 4-stroke acholytes, "gather ye rosebuds while ye may", your first 4-stroke overhaul may give you a coronary.
Charlie

[Mike Vogdes]

Yes it sure is hard to argue that its a cheap rebuilt, and 2 strokes are reliable if properly maintained. Its a shame someone could'nt come up with a device to get the emissions under control. Theres gonna be a pretty big scrap pile of 2 strokes when they are fazed out.

[Mike Vogdes]

Yes it sure is hard to argue that its a cheap rebuilt, and 2 strokes are reliable if properly maintained. Its a shame someone could'nt come up with a device to get the emissions under control. Theres gonna be a pretty big scrap pile of 2 strokes when they are fazed out.

[Mike Vogdes]

Yes it sure is hard to argue that its a cheap rebuilt, and 2 strokes are reliable if properly maintained. Its a shame someone could'nt come up with a device to get the emissions under control. Theres gonna be a pretty big scrap pile of 2 strokes when they are fazed out.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Mike Vogdes:
...Theres gonna be a pretty big scrap pile of 2 strokes when they are fazed out.Do you have a specific date when that will happen?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Mike Vogdes:
...Theres gonna be a pretty big scrap pile of 2 strokes when they are fazed out.Do you have a specific date when that will happen?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Mike Vogdes:
...Theres gonna be a pretty big scrap pile of 2 strokes when they are fazed out.Do you have a specific date when that will happen?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Stiletto]

On very small motors 2stroke is an advantage in that they are pretty tolerant of the way they are stored/carried. My fourstroke yamaha had to be laid the proper way for transport. One more thing to worry about.

[Stiletto]

On very small motors 2stroke is an advantage in that they are pretty tolerant of the way they are stored/carried. My fourstroke yamaha had to be laid the proper way for transport. One more thing to worry about.

[Stiletto]

On very small motors 2stroke is an advantage in that they are pretty tolerant of the way they are stored/carried. My fourstroke yamaha had to be laid the proper way for transport. One more thing to worry about.

[paladin]

aw c'mon Mike.....us ald pharts manage to keep our stuff runnin' fer ever....canna afford new stuff all the time.

[paladin]

aw c'mon Mike.....us ald pharts manage to keep our stuff runnin' fer ever....canna afford new stuff all the time.

[paladin]

aw c'mon Mike.....us ald pharts manage to keep our stuff runnin' fer ever....canna afford new stuff all the time.

[Mike Vogdes]

In 2006 the EPA requires that all manufactures have cleaner burning engines, fuel injected basicly, maybe there will be a big surge in after market fuel injection kits..
As far as a ban, I don't know. But the clock will start ticking on Jan 2 and I'm sure there will be a spot on your registration for the make and year of your outboard. Whats the penalty? fee maybe??

[Mike Vogdes]

In 2006 the EPA requires that all manufactures have cleaner burning engines, fuel injected basicly, maybe there will be a big surge in after market fuel injection kits..
As far as a ban, I don't know. But the clock will start ticking on Jan 2 and I'm sure there will be a spot on your registration for the make and year of your outboard. Whats the penalty? fee maybe??

[Mike Vogdes]

In 2006 the EPA requires that all manufactures have cleaner burning engines, fuel injected basicly, maybe there will be a big surge in after market fuel injection kits..
As far as a ban, I don't know. But the clock will start ticking on Jan 2 and I'm sure there will be a spot on your registration for the make and year of your outboard. Whats the penalty? fee maybe??

[Nick C]

If you plan to travel with the boat, check out some of the lakes you think you might go to. Some lakes require 4 stroke motors to motor on them.

Yes, a 4 stroke is a little heavier, but they are quieter and get better gas mileage.

[Nick C]

If you plan to travel with the boat, check out some of the lakes you think you might go to. Some lakes require 4 stroke motors to motor on them.

Yes, a 4 stroke is a little heavier, but they are quieter and get better gas mileage.

[Nick C]

If you plan to travel with the boat, check out some of the lakes you think you might go to. Some lakes require 4 stroke motors to motor on them.

Yes, a 4 stroke is a little heavier, but they are quieter and get better gas mileage.

[John Hastie]

I saw the nonsense about the EPA and it is like the FCC...

Marketers are lobbying for changes. The problem with the old 2 strokes is that they built them too damn well!

Jeez, isn't there some way we can get them to trade in every 3 years like cars?

I know, let's make them more complex and remove one cylinder so that it won't get them back to shore - that will make them want a new one. Duh!

Why the FCC slam - because they want to take away the analog TV's and make them buy new ones. Then Congress can sell the bandwidth for Billions.

I guess this qualifies as my first rant.

[John Hastie]

I saw the nonsense about the EPA and it is like the FCC...

Marketers are lobbying for changes. The problem with the old 2 strokes is that they built them too damn well!

Jeez, isn't there some way we can get them to trade in every 3 years like cars?

I know, let's make them more complex and remove one cylinder so that it won't get them back to shore - that will make them want a new one. Duh!

Why the FCC slam - because they want to take away the analog TV's and make them buy new ones. Then Congress can sell the bandwidth for Billions.

I guess this qualifies as my first rant.

[John Hastie]

I saw the nonsense about the EPA and it is like the FCC...

Marketers are lobbying for changes. The problem with the old 2 strokes is that they built them too damn well!

Jeez, isn't there some way we can get them to trade in every 3 years like cars?

I know, let's make them more complex and remove one cylinder so that it won't get them back to shore - that will make them want a new one. Duh!

Why the FCC slam - because they want to take away the analog TV's and make them buy new ones. Then Congress can sell the bandwidth for Billions.

I guess this qualifies as my first rant.

[Nick C]

There a lot of four strokes where I boat and you don't see all those oil slicks on the water. Plus, you don't get those foggy calm mornings with blue haze from smoke filling your lungs. Those are memories I don't care to repeat.

[Nick C]

There a lot of four strokes where I boat and you don't see all those oil slicks on the water. Plus, you don't get those foggy calm mornings with blue haze from smoke filling your lungs. Those are memories I don't care to repeat.

[Nick C]

There a lot of four strokes where I boat and you don't see all those oil slicks on the water. Plus, you don't get those foggy calm mornings with blue haze from smoke filling your lungs. Those are memories I don't care to repeat.

[Leigh]

Thanks for the input, guys.....I'm looking at the Tohatsu 3.5 or the Yamaha as the final contenders....2 stroke for the lightnes and cost factor.....a little bit of care and should last a long time.

[Leigh]

Thanks for the input, guys.....I'm looking at the Tohatsu 3.5 or the Yamaha as the final contenders....2 stroke for the lightnes and cost factor.....a little bit of care and should last a long time.

[Leigh]

Thanks for the input, guys.....I'm looking at the Tohatsu 3.5 or the Yamaha as the final contenders....2 stroke for the lightnes and cost factor.....a little bit of care and should last a long time.

[John B]

You know when you sit in the boat for 3 days while it pours with rain and you start to go a little stir crazy with cabin fever, you and your wife and the 3 kids.. and then the first break in the weather comes along .

well, whats a fellow to do except stick three outboards on the dinghy and do some trials.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pbcdfe9c08b87b62ad4ba1965bbef2ebb/fcb80b8a.jpg
2 2hp suzukis( I think, or was it a yamaha and a suzuki?) and my 3 hp merc.

the Merc has lasted about 11 years so far, won't die. I'm a bit annoyed that I'll have to buy the next one with that forward/neutral g/box. just extra weight ,something to go wrong and not really of any value that I can see. The thing starts first pull anyway.

[ 08-11-2005, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

You know when you sit in the boat for 3 days while it pours with rain and you start to go a little stir crazy with cabin fever, you and your wife and the 3 kids.. and then the first break in the weather comes along .

well, whats a fellow to do except stick three outboards on the dinghy and do some trials.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pbcdfe9c08b87b62ad4ba1965bbef2ebb/fcb80b8a.jpg
2 2hp suzukis( I think, or was it a yamaha and a suzuki?) and my 3 hp merc.

the Merc has lasted about 11 years so far, won't die. I'm a bit annoyed that I'll have to buy the next one with that forward/neutral g/box. just extra weight ,something to go wrong and not really of any value that I can see. The thing starts first pull anyway.

[ 08-11-2005, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

You know when you sit in the boat for 3 days while it pours with rain and you start to go a little stir crazy with cabin fever, you and your wife and the 3 kids.. and then the first break in the weather comes along .

well, whats a fellow to do except stick three outboards on the dinghy and do some trials.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pbcdfe9c08b87b62ad4ba1965bbef2ebb/fcb80b8a.jpg
2 2hp suzukis( I think, or was it a yamaha and a suzuki?) and my 3 hp merc.

the Merc has lasted about 11 years so far, won't die. I'm a bit annoyed that I'll have to buy the next one with that forward/neutral g/box. just extra weight ,something to go wrong and not really of any value that I can see. The thing starts first pull anyway.

[ 08-11-2005, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Originally posted by paladin:
SACRILEGE.....only a SEAGULL will do.....Seagull Forty Featherweight.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Originally posted by paladin:
SACRILEGE.....only a SEAGULL will do.....Seagull Forty Featherweight.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Originally posted by paladin:
SACRILEGE.....only a SEAGULL will do.....Seagull Forty Featherweight.

[Ellis Rowe]

Seagull fans are like old Harley riders. They're to darn stubborn to admit that they aren't near as reliable as the Japanese motors. I think misery loves company.

[Ellis Rowe]

Seagull fans are like old Harley riders. They're to darn stubborn to admit that they aren't near as reliable as the Japanese motors. I think misery loves company.

[Ellis Rowe]

Seagull fans are like old Harley riders. They're to darn stubborn to admit that they aren't near as reliable as the Japanese motors. I think misery loves company.

[Don Z.]

http://www.seagullrestoration.com/images/seagullengine.jpg

OK, so the others beat me to it!

Seriously though... See, one day, I took my dinghy to the dock and went to get coffee... The lass with the pierced eybrow and lip was pouring me a cup when I realized I had left the Seagull there out in public where anyone could see her and get at her... I raced back to the dinghy, but it was too late.

Four other people had tossed their seagulls into the dink as well!

[Don Z.]

http://www.seagullrestoration.com/images/seagullengine.jpg

OK, so the others beat me to it!

Seriously though... See, one day, I took my dinghy to the dock and went to get coffee... The lass with the pierced eybrow and lip was pouring me a cup when I realized I had left the Seagull there out in public where anyone could see her and get at her... I raced back to the dinghy, but it was too late.

Four other people had tossed their seagulls into the dink as well!

[Don Z.]

http://www.seagullrestoration.com/images/seagullengine.jpg

OK, so the others beat me to it!

Seriously though... See, one day, I took my dinghy to the dock and went to get coffee... The lass with the pierced eybrow and lip was pouring me a cup when I realized I had left the Seagull there out in public where anyone could see her and get at her... I raced back to the dinghy, but it was too late.

Four other people had tossed their seagulls into the dink as well!

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

You want light?
Why not get the lightest.
air cooled too. ;)

http://www.honda-marine.com/images/BF2_engine.jpg

http://www.honda-marine.com/modelDetail.aspx?modelGroup=bf2

[ 08-27-2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

You want light?
Why not get the lightest.
air cooled too. ;)

http://www.honda-marine.com/images/BF2_engine.jpg

http://www.honda-marine.com/modelDetail.aspx?modelGroup=bf2

[ 08-27-2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

You want light?
Why not get the lightest.
air cooled too. ;)

http://www.honda-marine.com/images/BF2_engine.jpg

http://www.honda-marine.com/modelDetail.aspx?modelGroup=bf2

[ 08-27-2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[paladin]

My old Seagull izz nearly 35 years old and runs just fine......and will push an Avon Redcrest a helluva lot better than one of those puny rice grinder high speed mixmasters.....

[paladin]

My old Seagull izz nearly 35 years old and runs just fine......and will push an Avon Redcrest a helluva lot better than one of those puny rice grinder high speed mixmasters.....

[paladin]

My old Seagull izz nearly 35 years old and runs just fine......and will push an Avon Redcrest a helluva lot better than one of those puny rice grinder high speed mixmasters.....

[Keith Wilson]

Leaving a dandy oil slick in the wake, and warning anyone within several miles that you're coming. ;)

[Keith Wilson]

Leaving a dandy oil slick in the wake, and warning anyone within several miles that you're coming. ;)

[Keith Wilson]

Leaving a dandy oil slick in the wake, and warning anyone within several miles that you're coming. ;)

[paladin]

whyizzzit some fellers gotta be NEGATIVE.... :D

[paladin]

whyizzzit some fellers gotta be NEGATIVE.... :D

[paladin]

whyizzzit some fellers gotta be NEGATIVE.... :D

[Thad Van Gilder]

There's only one outboard... The British Seagull!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

There's only one outboard... The British Seagull!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

There's only one outboard... The British Seagull!

-Thad

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
There's only one outboard... The British Seagull!

-ThadIf thats the only outboard you can find, it's no wonder you cant find that scrap yard. Do you know where the Delaware river is?

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
There's only one outboard... The British Seagull!

-ThadIf thats the only outboard you can find, it's no wonder you cant find that scrap yard. Do you know where the Delaware river is?

[Gary E]

Originally posted by Thad Van Gilder:
There's only one outboard... The British Seagull!

-ThadIf thats the only outboard you can find, it's no wonder you cant find that scrap yard. Do you know where the Delaware river is?

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hmm... yup, it's that big wet thing between my house and my shop!!!!!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hmm... yup, it's that big wet thing between my house and my shop!!!!!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hmm... yup, it's that big wet thing between my house and my shop!!!!!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hmm... yup, it's that big wet thing between my house and my shop!!!!!

-Thad

By the way, doesn't anyone like the old cruis n carry's?

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hmm... yup, it's that big wet thing between my house and my shop!!!!!

-Thad

By the way, doesn't anyone like the old cruis n carry's?

[Thad Van Gilder]

Hmm... yup, it's that big wet thing between my house and my shop!!!!!

-Thad

By the way, doesn't anyone like the old cruis n carry's?

[Gary E]

I see your from Downingtown, is Mickey Rooney still tied to the Downingtown Inn's entertainment?

[Gary E]

I see your from Downingtown, is Mickey Rooney still tied to the Downingtown Inn's entertainment?

[Gary E]

I see your from Downingtown, is Mickey Rooney still tied to the Downingtown Inn's entertainment?

[sbsbw]

personally i like oars

[sbsbw]

personally i like oars

[sbsbw]

personally i like oars

[Wes Kisting]

For what it's worth, as far as environmental conditions are concerned, there are a lot of myths about 2-strokes being notoriously pollutant. It's true that very old 2-stroke motors can be found on lakes leaving an oil slick in their wake, but the newer 2-strokes don't actually deposit oil into the water... the oil is combusted and released with the fuel, and this release is accounted for in its emissions rating.

The advantage of 2-strokes is the weight savings and torque. It's a myth that 4-strokes develop more torque (actually, they put out less). In a bang-for-the-buck/weight scenario, I'd always choose a 2-stroke. Stricter emissions standards are making it less cost effective to invest in 2-stroke technology, which is why 4-strokes are starting to become the standard as 2006 approaches. Johnson has just discontinued several of its 2-stroke models, so I bought a 2004 8hp 2-stroke while I could... they're going to be a hot item when people with smaller to moderate-size boats go looking for "a bit more power" only to find that a 4-stroke is awfully heavy on the transom.

Here's an interesting link that sums up what you'll come across if you read around on a number of outboard-related sites:

http://www.randlmarine.com/true%20story.htm

[Wes Kisting]

For what it's worth, as far as environmental conditions are concerned, there are a lot of myths about 2-strokes being notoriously pollutant. It's true that very old 2-stroke motors can be found on lakes leaving an oil slick in their wake, but the newer 2-strokes don't actually deposit oil into the water... the oil is combusted and released with the fuel, and this release is accounted for in its emissions rating.

The advantage of 2-strokes is the weight savings and torque. It's a myth that 4-strokes develop more torque (actually, they put out less). In a bang-for-the-buck/weight scenario, I'd always choose a 2-stroke. Stricter emissions standards are making it less cost effective to invest in 2-stroke technology, which is why 4-strokes are starting to become the standard as 2006 approaches. Johnson has just discontinued several of its 2-stroke models, so I bought a 2004 8hp 2-stroke while I could... they're going to be a hot item when people with smaller to moderate-size boats go looking for "a bit more power" only to find that a 4-stroke is awfully heavy on the transom.

Here's an interesting link that sums up what you'll come across if you read around on a number of outboard-related sites:

http://www.randlmarine.com/true%20story.htm

[Wes Kisting]

For what it's worth, as far as environmental conditions are concerned, there are a lot of myths about 2-strokes being notoriously pollutant. It's true that very old 2-stroke motors can be found on lakes leaving an oil slick in their wake, but the newer 2-strokes don't actually deposit oil into the water... the oil is combusted and released with the fuel, and this release is accounted for in its emissions rating.

The advantage of 2-strokes is the weight savings and torque. It's a myth that 4-strokes develop more torque (actually, they put out less). In a bang-for-the-buck/weight scenario, I'd always choose a 2-stroke. Stricter emissions standards are making it less cost effective to invest in 2-stroke technology, which is why 4-strokes are starting to become the standard as 2006 approaches. Johnson has just discontinued several of its 2-stroke models, so I bought a 2004 8hp 2-stroke while I could... they're going to be a hot item when people with smaller to moderate-size boats go looking for "a bit more power" only to find that a 4-stroke is awfully heavy on the transom.

Here's an interesting link that sums up what you'll come across if you read around on a number of outboard-related sites:

http://www.randlmarine.com/true%20story.htm

[Thorne]

Wes et al -

What weight savings? The Honda 4-stroke 2hp weighs the same or less (by maker's specs, admittedly questionable) than the Johnson 2 and the Nissan 2.5 2-strokes. As the latter two are also water-cooled, the real weight after some use should be even higher for the 2-strokes.

http://www.outboardmotor.net/cgi-bin/engineSpecs/equery.cgi

I've owned a Seagull myself and certainly got tired of breathing all that partially-burned oil on downwind runs...

;- )

Something else to consider is the possible increase of bans on 2-strokes for some bodies of water, particularly those used for municipal water supplies.

[Thorne]

Wes et al -

What weight savings? The Honda 4-stroke 2hp weighs the same or less (by maker's specs, admittedly questionable) than the Johnson 2 and the Nissan 2.5 2-strokes. As the latter two are also water-cooled, the real weight after some use should be even higher for the 2-strokes.

http://www.outboardmotor.net/cgi-bin/engineSpecs/equery.cgi

I've owned a Seagull myself and certainly got tired of breathing all that partially-burned oil on downwind runs...

;- )

Something else to consider is the possible increase of bans on 2-strokes for some bodies of water, particularly those used for municipal water supplies.

[Thorne]

Wes et al -

What weight savings? The Honda 4-stroke 2hp weighs the same or less (by maker's specs, admittedly questionable) than the Johnson 2 and the Nissan 2.5 2-strokes. As the latter two are also water-cooled, the real weight after some use should be even higher for the 2-strokes.

http://www.outboardmotor.net/cgi-bin/engineSpecs/equery.cgi

I've owned a Seagull myself and certainly got tired of breathing all that partially-burned oil on downwind runs...

;- )

Something else to consider is the possible increase of bans on 2-strokes for some bodies of water, particularly those used for municipal water supplies.

[Wes Kisting]

Thorne,

In the very small hp sizes (1-3), the weight difference might be negligible, but as you begin talking 4, 5, 6 hp and up, the difference becomes very noticeable... 10 - 20 lbs. or more. (4-strokes are typically 15% - 30% heavier than comparable 2-strokes). While this isn't a big deal for large boats that just need a kicker, small boats can suffer a performance penalty or have problems with waterline trim from even these seemingly small additions in weight. That's what I was referring to in the post above.

[Wes Kisting]

Thorne,

In the very small hp sizes (1-3), the weight difference might be negligible, but as you begin talking 4, 5, 6 hp and up, the difference becomes very noticeable... 10 - 20 lbs. or more. (4-strokes are typically 15% - 30% heavier than comparable 2-strokes). While this isn't a big deal for large boats that just need a kicker, small boats can suffer a performance penalty or have problems with waterline trim from even these seemingly small additions in weight. That's what I was referring to in the post above.

[Wes Kisting]

Thorne,

In the very small hp sizes (1-3), the weight difference might be negligible, but as you begin talking 4, 5, 6 hp and up, the difference becomes very noticeable... 10 - 20 lbs. or more. (4-strokes are typically 15% - 30% heavier than comparable 2-strokes). While this isn't a big deal for large boats that just need a kicker, small boats can suffer a performance penalty or have problems with waterline trim from even these seemingly small additions in weight. That's what I was referring to in the post above.

[Thorne]

Wes -

I hear you on the weight issues -- the toll on the back, elbows and other body parts from slinging around outboards can be very high (and painful).

But the poster was asking about power for an 8-ft inflatable, so in my mind, the lighter the better.

More important to me is the issue of storage for 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke -- can a 4-stroke be laid on its side in a small boat, then hoisted to the transom and started quickly? If not then there is a real problem with 4-strokes for those of us with boats too small to leave the outboard on the motor-mount all the time...

[ 09-08-2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Thorne]

Wes -

I hear you on the weight issues -- the toll on the back, elbows and other body parts from slinging around outboards can be very high (and painful).

But the poster was asking about power for an 8-ft inflatable, so in my mind, the lighter the better.

More important to me is the issue of storage for 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke -- can a 4-stroke be laid on its side in a small boat, then hoisted to the transom and started quickly? If not then there is a real problem with 4-strokes for those of us with boats too small to leave the outboard on the motor-mount all the time...

[ 09-08-2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Thorne]

Wes -

I hear you on the weight issues -- the toll on the back, elbows and other body parts from slinging around outboards can be very high (and painful).

But the poster was asking about power for an 8-ft inflatable, so in my mind, the lighter the better.

More important to me is the issue of storage for 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke -- can a 4-stroke be laid on its side in a small boat, then hoisted to the transom and started quickly? If not then there is a real problem with 4-strokes for those of us with boats too small to leave the outboard on the motor-mount all the time...

[ 09-08-2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Thorne ]

[Ian McColgin]

Since a low powered inflatable won't go fast anyway and since you might well want to pull stuff, check out Yamaha's low power big prop units. The 3:1 reduction gives such good bollard pull that you may want to either reinforce the dink's transom or make a tow strap that attaches directly to the engine.

[Ian McColgin]

Since a low powered inflatable won't go fast anyway and since you might well want to pull stuff, check out Yamaha's low power big prop units. The 3:1 reduction gives such good bollard pull that you may want to either reinforce the dink's transom or make a tow strap that attaches directly to the engine.

[Ian McColgin]

Since a low powered inflatable won't go fast anyway and since you might well want to pull stuff, check out Yamaha's low power big prop units. The 3:1 reduction gives such good bollard pull that you may want to either reinforce the dink's transom or make a tow strap that attaches directly to the engine.

[Wes Kisting]

Sorry Thorne... forgot the context of the discussion. Originally, I just meant to correct the assumption (faintly detectable in a few of the posts) that a 2-stroke HAS to be dirty and ultra-pollutant.

You're right... it would make little sense to put a larger hp motor on the watercraft in question. And so the 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke differences probably become negligible in many respsects.

[Wes Kisting]

Sorry Thorne... forgot the context of the discussion. Originally, I just meant to correct the assumption (faintly detectable in a few of the posts) that a 2-stroke HAS to be dirty and ultra-pollutant.

You're right... it would make little sense to put a larger hp motor on the watercraft in question. And so the 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke differences probably become negligible in many respsects.

[Wes Kisting]

Sorry Thorne... forgot the context of the discussion. Originally, I just meant to correct the assumption (faintly detectable in a few of the posts) that a 2-stroke HAS to be dirty and ultra-pollutant.

You're right... it would make little sense to put a larger hp motor on the watercraft in question. And so the 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke differences probably become negligible in many respsects.

[Wes Kisting]

Ooops... submitted that last post before I was finished. In reply to your question, Thorne, I think either a 2-stroke or 4-stroke can be laid on its side, but I also think that all manufacturers recommend that if you lay any outboard motor (2 or 4 stroke) on its side for storage, the head must be kept higher than the gearcase/prop. I THINK the reason for this (not sure, really) is to prevent the possibility of any water that may linger in the lower unit from running (by gravity) up into the head where, if allowed to sit for long, it could cause corrosion problems and create serious maintenance issues down the road.

[Wes Kisting]

Ooops... submitted that last post before I was finished. In reply to your question, Thorne, I think either a 2-stroke or 4-stroke can be laid on its side, but I also think that all manufacturers recommend that if you lay any outboard motor (2 or 4 stroke) on its side for storage, the head must be kept higher than the gearcase/prop. I THINK the reason for this (not sure, really) is to prevent the possibility of any water that may linger in the lower unit from running (by gravity) up into the head where, if allowed to sit for long, it could cause corrosion problems and create serious maintenance issues down the road.

[Wes Kisting]

Ooops... submitted that last post before I was finished. In reply to your question, Thorne, I think either a 2-stroke or 4-stroke can be laid on its side, but I also think that all manufacturers recommend that if you lay any outboard motor (2 or 4 stroke) on its side for storage, the head must be kept higher than the gearcase/prop. I THINK the reason for this (not sure, really) is to prevent the possibility of any water that may linger in the lower unit from running (by gravity) up into the head where, if allowed to sit for long, it could cause corrosion problems and create serious maintenance issues down the road.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/images/40_plus_small.jpg

Seagull Forty Plus.

Mine left the factory in September 1972; starts first pull.

You can get bio-degradable two stroke oil now.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/images/40_plus_small.jpg

Seagull Forty Plus.

Mine left the factory in September 1972; starts first pull.

You can get bio-degradable two stroke oil now.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/images/40_plus_small.jpg

Seagull Forty Plus.

Mine left the factory in September 1972; starts first pull.

You can get bio-degradable two stroke oil now.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Now?
http://www.suntrad.co.jp/others/oil/oil/2stoil_castrolR30.jpg

Castor Oil Plants (http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/c/casoil32.html)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Now?
http://www.suntrad.co.jp/others/oil/oil/2stoil_castrolR30.jpg

Castor Oil Plants (http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/c/casoil32.html)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Now?
http://www.suntrad.co.jp/others/oil/oil/2stoil_castrolR30.jpg

Castor Oil Plants (http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/c/casoil32.html)

[Leon Steyns]

I run my Seagull without any pollution whatsoever (other than the inefficient internal combustion operation), replacing gaskets and sealers at the prescribed intervals, checking nuts and bolts tightness regularly, using the correct mixture (yes, it's 1:10 and no, it doesn't produce blue clouds!) or, in general: I fully comply with the maintenance guidelines as published by the manufacturers.

So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe (and all others who think that Seagulls and other old two-stroke outboards only pollute excessively):

http://www.math.toronto.edu/almgren/fun/seagull.html

And a quote, since lots of you might not bother to click the link:

"Thirteenth Edition

THE BRITISH SEAGULL
"The world of engine owners is divided into two classes . . . the vast majority are those who never get any trouble, and get heaps of pleasure, both for themselves, their families and friends, day in and day out . . . whilst the second class is a very small minority which is always in trouble, causing misery to itself and constantly drawing on the kindness and good fellowship of other people for aid and assistance.

Curiously enough, this minority is always by far the most vociferous, and has no hesitation in blaming the equipment fated for use, verbally and in print.

Frankly, blaming engines and everything to do with them may have had a certain amount of basis in fact twenty or thirty years ago, but today it just doesn't hold water . . . to be in trouble today is seldom the fault of the engine, whatever its make . . . once, or even twice, may be bad luck, but continuous trouble is nothing else but a reflection on the user.

There are hundreds of thousands of engines today operating day in and day out, without any particular attention, and in the most unskilled hands, completely faultlessly, as can be seen by anyone, and it requires no skill nor mechanical ability at all to run a "SEAGULL."

WHETHER YOU JOIN THE HAPPY MAJORITY, OR EXPERIENCE THE IRRITATION AND UNCERTAINTY OF THE TROUBLE BRIGADE, IS ABSOLUTELY UP TO YOU, AND NO ONE ELSE.

The little book is written to ensure that your outboard motoring is 100% pleasure, and if you read it and abide by its advice, you need have nothing to fear, even if you scarcely know a propeller from a connecting rod.

In many ways, a motor is like a human being . . . normally, it is fit and well, but it must have some essential things in life, and if it doesn't get them it falls sick.

It's absolutely essential that the fundamentals in life are provided for a motor, and almost all the ailments attached to outboard motoring can be accounted for by the attitude of "It doesn't matter . . . any old plug will do . . . any old fuel . . . any oil that's available . . . mixed in any proportions . . . no need to read the instructions, I know all about engines . . . never mind about fixing the engine on the boat properly, we're in a hurry . . . this'll do . . . that'll do," etc., etc., ad nauseam.

Let us say at once, this won't do . . . and is asking for trouble. Your "SEAGULL" doesn't ask for very much, and there's no difficulty in giving it what it requires . . . we don't write this book for fun, we do it because it's vital for your own pleasure, security and peace of mind.

SO HERE GOES.

Nothing is simpler, more reliable, and for that matter more popular, than a Model 40 or 100 "SEAGULL", but we'll start off with a few absolute "MUSTS" . . . heed these "MUSTS" and good service will come to you automatically.

1. Carry out meticulously the instructions which follow as regards fuel and oil.

2. Don't use grease in the gearbox, use oil, and oil only.

3. Use the right plug, and absorb completely the special information given hereafter about plugs in general . . . the plug is perhaps the most important item to watch and care for.

4. Don't do your first trip with a new engine under rush conditions, in front of a large audience. For instance, avoid a vital trip, catching the last of the tide, in a small dinghy, laden to the gunwales with gear and people, in half a gale in the pouring rain . . . this sounds silly, but it's exactly what people do only too frequently.

Choose fine weather conditions . . . a useful, and, if possible, seamanlike and mechanical companion . . . a quiet and secluded spot, where success or otherwise doesn't matter much . . . take your time, and see that the engine is fitted exactly as laid down in these instructions, and get set thoroughly with the new mechanism before starting serious business.

Nobody feels entirely happy with a new piece of mechanism . . . you must practise, and get your eye in.

If you are going to run into trouble, it's much more likely to happen on your first trip or two, than at any other time.

The engine is new, and a little stiff . . . you haven't got the knack of pulling the starting cord . . . you're inclined to run the thing gently, when what it actually wants is plenty of hard running . . . and in fact every factor is against you, so put in an hour or two, quietly, under ideal conditions to get the hang of things.

The motor itself, like a human, will require some time to understand its new master . . . after you've worked together for twenty hours, you will be astonished how the whole outfit, you included, really gets down to business.

If you run into trouble, and want any help, write or telephone the manufacturers immediately . . . don't listen to the advice of experts on the spot, or so-called mechanics, because WE can do more to help you by return of post, or within five minutes on the phone, than anyone . . . we should be able to, after specialising for twenty-five years in this class of engine.

If you write, don't just say, "I can't make my engine go."

Give us all the information you can: the type of fuel and oil . . . the type of boat . . . a description of what actually happens, or doesn't happen . . . and particularly let us know if there are any circumstances which are unusual . . . such as a special or unusual boat, etc., etc. . . . give us, especially, the ENGINE NUMBER.

If the engine cuts out suddenly, without warning, whilst running, it's ten chances to one that it's plug trouble.

Now, this is the vital point to remember.

This is the whole crux of the matter . . . if the engine won't start (always supposing that there is fuel in the carburettor, and that it hasn't run out of fuel) and shows no sign of life after three or four pulls of the starting cord, and ONLY three or four, WHIP OUT THE PLUG AT ONCE . . . don't go on pulling the cord.

After two or three attempts, every time you pull the starting cord you render the engine more and more unlikely to start at all.

If it doesn't start after two or three attempts there's something wrong, and pulling the cord makes matters worse and worse.

The cause of the trouble, initially, is more than likely a speck of fouling bridging the points of the plug . . . if the plug is removed at once, and the points cleared, on replacing the plug the engine will start immediately.

But will people do this? . . . No, they won't . . . instead, they go on pulling the starting cord for twenty minutes or so, pumping more and more petrol into the engine, and filling the plug with oil, and then have to row home, and sometimes (if they've got the strength) write a furious letter to the manufacturers.

We have no sympathy with these people at all.

Finally, remember that in any motor boat, however quiet, your voice can be heard much more clearly by surrounding craft than by your own companions . . . a supposedly confidential and innocent comment about people or their boats may well become unknowingly a public broadcast . . . there's probably enough trouble awaiting you when you get ashore without adding to it!!!

Well, good luck, and fair winds and tides, and don't forget the manufacturers are ready to help you with the best of willing advice should you need it . . . and lastly, the wise owner attaches a safety lanyard to any outboard engine as an added precaution to avoid losing it overboard.

THE BRITISH SEAGULL CO. LTD.,
SERVICE ORGANISATION"

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/images/seagull_man_2.gif

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 09-15-2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[Leon Steyns]

I run my Seagull without any pollution whatsoever (other than the inefficient internal combustion operation), replacing gaskets and sealers at the prescribed intervals, checking nuts and bolts tightness regularly, using the correct mixture (yes, it's 1:10 and no, it doesn't produce blue clouds!) or, in general: I fully comply with the maintenance guidelines as published by the manufacturers.

So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe (and all others who think that Seagulls and other old two-stroke outboards only pollute excessively):

http://www.math.toronto.edu/almgren/fun/seagull.html

And a quote, since lots of you might not bother to click the link:

"Thirteenth Edition

THE BRITISH SEAGULL
"The world of engine owners is divided into two classes . . . the vast majority are those who never get any trouble, and get heaps of pleasure, both for themselves, their families and friends, day in and day out . . . whilst the second class is a very small minority which is always in trouble, causing misery to itself and constantly drawing on the kindness and good fellowship of other people for aid and assistance.

Curiously enough, this minority is always by far the most vociferous, and has no hesitation in blaming the equipment fated for use, verbally and in print.

Frankly, blaming engines and everything to do with them may have had a certain amount of basis in fact twenty or thirty years ago, but today it just doesn't hold water . . . to be in trouble today is seldom the fault of the engine, whatever its make . . . once, or even twice, may be bad luck, but continuous trouble is nothing else but a reflection on the user.

There are hundreds of thousands of engines today operating day in and day out, without any particular attention, and in the most unskilled hands, completely faultlessly, as can be seen by anyone, and it requires no skill nor mechanical ability at all to run a "SEAGULL."

WHETHER YOU JOIN THE HAPPY MAJORITY, OR EXPERIENCE THE IRRITATION AND UNCERTAINTY OF THE TROUBLE BRIGADE, IS ABSOLUTELY UP TO YOU, AND NO ONE ELSE.

The little book is written to ensure that your outboard motoring is 100% pleasure, and if you read it and abide by its advice, you need have nothing to fear, even if you scarcely know a propeller from a connecting rod.

In many ways, a motor is like a human being . . . normally, it is fit and well, but it must have some essential things in life, and if it doesn't get them it falls sick.

It's absolutely essential that the fundamentals in life are provided for a motor, and almost all the ailments attached to outboard motoring can be accounted for by the attitude of "It doesn't matter . . . any old plug will do . . . any old fuel . . . any oil that's available . . . mixed in any proportions . . . no need to read the instructions, I know all about engines . . . never mind about fixing the engine on the boat properly, we're in a hurry . . . this'll do . . . that'll do," etc., etc., ad nauseam.

Let us say at once, this won't do . . . and is asking for trouble. Your "SEAGULL" doesn't ask for very much, and there's no difficulty in giving it what it requires . . . we don't write this book for fun, we do it because it's vital for your own pleasure, security and peace of mind.

SO HERE GOES.

Nothing is simpler, more reliable, and for that matter more popular, than a Model 40 or 100 "SEAGULL", but we'll start off with a few absolute "MUSTS" . . . heed these "MUSTS" and good service will come to you automatically.

1. Carry out meticulously the instructions which follow as regards fuel and oil.

2. Don't use grease in the gearbox, use oil, and oil only.

3. Use the right plug, and absorb completely the special information given hereafter about plugs in general . . . the plug is perhaps the most important item to watch and care for.

4. Don't do your first trip with a new engine under rush conditions, in front of a large audience. For instance, avoid a vital trip, catching the last of the tide, in a small dinghy, laden to the gunwales with gear and people, in half a gale in the pouring rain . . . this sounds silly, but it's exactly what people do only too frequently.

Choose fine weather conditions . . . a useful, and, if possible, seamanlike and mechanical companion . . . a quiet and secluded spot, where success or otherwise doesn't matter much . . . take your time, and see that the engine is fitted exactly as laid down in these instructions, and get set thoroughly with the new mechanism before starting serious business.

Nobody feels entirely happy with a new piece of mechanism . . . you must practise, and get your eye in.

If you are going to run into trouble, it's much more likely to happen on your first trip or two, than at any other time.

The engine is new, and a little stiff . . . you haven't got the knack of pulling the starting cord . . . you're inclined to run the thing gently, when what it actually wants is plenty of hard running . . . and in fact every factor is against you, so put in an hour or two, quietly, under ideal conditions to get the hang of things.

The motor itself, like a human, will require some time to understand its new master . . . after you've worked together for twenty hours, you will be astonished how the whole outfit, you included, really gets down to business.

If you run into trouble, and want any help, write or telephone the manufacturers immediately . . . don't listen to the advice of experts on the spot, or so-called mechanics, because WE can do more to help you by return of post, or within five minutes on the phone, than anyone . . . we should be able to, after specialising for twenty-five years in this class of engine.

If you write, don't just say, "I can't make my engine go."

Give us all the information you can: the type of fuel and oil . . . the type of boat . . . a description of what actually happens, or doesn't happen . . . and particularly let us know if there are any circumstances which are unusual . . . such as a special or unusual boat, etc., etc. . . . give us, especially, the ENGINE NUMBER.

If the engine cuts out suddenly, without warning, whilst running, it's ten chances to one that it's plug trouble.

Now, this is the vital point to remember.

This is the whole crux of the matter . . . if the engine won't start (always supposing that there is fuel in the carburettor, and that it hasn't run out of fuel) and shows no sign of life after three or four pulls of the starting cord, and ONLY three or four, WHIP OUT THE PLUG AT ONCE . . . don't go on pulling the cord.

After two or three attempts, every time you pull the starting cord you render the engine more and more unlikely to start at all.

If it doesn't start after two or three attempts there's something wrong, and pulling the cord makes matters worse and worse.

The cause of the trouble, initially, is more than likely a speck of fouling bridging the points of the plug . . . if the plug is removed at once, and the points cleared, on replacing the plug the engine will start immediately.

But will people do this? . . . No, they won't . . . instead, they go on pulling the starting cord for twenty minutes or so, pumping more and more petrol into the engine, and filling the plug with oil, and then have to row home, and sometimes (if they've got the strength) write a furious letter to the manufacturers.

We have no sympathy with these people at all.

Finally, remember that in any motor boat, however quiet, your voice can be heard much more clearly by surrounding craft than by your own companions . . . a supposedly confidential and innocent comment about people or their boats may well become unknowingly a public broadcast . . . there's probably enough trouble awaiting you when you get ashore without adding to it!!!

Well, good luck, and fair winds and tides, and don't forget the manufacturers are ready to help you with the best of willing advice should you need it . . . and lastly, the wise owner attaches a safety lanyard to any outboard engine as an added precaution to avoid losing it overboard.

THE BRITISH SEAGULL CO. LTD.,
SERVICE ORGANISATION"

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/images/seagull_man_2.gif

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 09-15-2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[Leon Steyns]

I run my Seagull without any pollution whatsoever (other than the inefficient internal combustion operation), replacing gaskets and sealers at the prescribed intervals, checking nuts and bolts tightness regularly, using the correct mixture (yes, it's 1:10 and no, it doesn't produce blue clouds!) or, in general: I fully comply with the maintenance guidelines as published by the manufacturers.

So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe (and all others who think that Seagulls and other old two-stroke outboards only pollute excessively):

http://www.math.toronto.edu/almgren/fun/seagull.html

And a quote, since lots of you might not bother to click the link:

"Thirteenth Edition

THE BRITISH SEAGULL
"The world of engine owners is divided into two classes . . . the vast majority are those who never get any trouble, and get heaps of pleasure, both for themselves, their families and friends, day in and day out . . . whilst the second class is a very small minority which is always in trouble, causing misery to itself and constantly drawing on the kindness and good fellowship of other people for aid and assistance.

Curiously enough, this minority is always by far the most vociferous, and has no hesitation in blaming the equipment fated for use, verbally and in print.

Frankly, blaming engines and everything to do with them may have had a certain amount of basis in fact twenty or thirty years ago, but today it just doesn't hold water . . . to be in trouble today is seldom the fault of the engine, whatever its make . . . once, or even twice, may be bad luck, but continuous trouble is nothing else but a reflection on the user.

There are hundreds of thousands of engines today operating day in and day out, without any particular attention, and in the most unskilled hands, completely faultlessly, as can be seen by anyone, and it requires no skill nor mechanical ability at all to run a "SEAGULL."

WHETHER YOU JOIN THE HAPPY MAJORITY, OR EXPERIENCE THE IRRITATION AND UNCERTAINTY OF THE TROUBLE BRIGADE, IS ABSOLUTELY UP TO YOU, AND NO ONE ELSE.

The little book is written to ensure that your outboard motoring is 100% pleasure, and if you read it and abide by its advice, you need have nothing to fear, even if you scarcely know a propeller from a connecting rod.

In many ways, a motor is like a human being . . . normally, it is fit and well, but it must have some essential things in life, and if it doesn't get them it falls sick.

It's absolutely essential that the fundamentals in life are provided for a motor, and almost all the ailments attached to outboard motoring can be accounted for by the attitude of "It doesn't matter . . . any old plug will do . . . any old fuel . . . any oil that's available . . . mixed in any proportions . . . no need to read the instructions, I know all about engines . . . never mind about fixing the engine on the boat properly, we're in a hurry . . . this'll do . . . that'll do," etc., etc., ad nauseam.

Let us say at once, this won't do . . . and is asking for trouble. Your "SEAGULL" doesn't ask for very much, and there's no difficulty in giving it what it requires . . . we don't write this book for fun, we do it because it's vital for your own pleasure, security and peace of mind.

SO HERE GOES.

Nothing is simpler, more reliable, and for that matter more popular, than a Model 40 or 100 "SEAGULL", but we'll start off with a few absolute "MUSTS" . . . heed these "MUSTS" and good service will come to you automatically.

1. Carry out meticulously the instructions which follow as regards fuel and oil.

2. Don't use grease in the gearbox, use oil, and oil only.

3. Use the right plug, and absorb completely the special information given hereafter about plugs in general . . . the plug is perhaps the most important item to watch and care for.

4. Don't do your first trip with a new engine under rush conditions, in front of a large audience. For instance, avoid a vital trip, catching the last of the tide, in a small dinghy, laden to the gunwales with gear and people, in half a gale in the pouring rain . . . this sounds silly, but it's exactly what people do only too frequently.

Choose fine weather conditions . . . a useful, and, if possible, seamanlike and mechanical companion . . . a quiet and secluded spot, where success or otherwise doesn't matter much . . . take your time, and see that the engine is fitted exactly as laid down in these instructions, and get set thoroughly with the new mechanism before starting serious business.

Nobody feels entirely happy with a new piece of mechanism . . . you must practise, and get your eye in.

If you are going to run into trouble, it's much more likely to happen on your first trip or two, than at any other time.

The engine is new, and a little stiff . . . you haven't got the knack of pulling the starting cord . . . you're inclined to run the thing gently, when what it actually wants is plenty of hard running . . . and in fact every factor is against you, so put in an hour or two, quietly, under ideal conditions to get the hang of things.

The motor itself, like a human, will require some time to understand its new master . . . after you've worked together for twenty hours, you will be astonished how the whole outfit, you included, really gets down to business.

If you run into trouble, and want any help, write or telephone the manufacturers immediately . . . don't listen to the advice of experts on the spot, or so-called mechanics, because WE can do more to help you by return of post, or within five minutes on the phone, than anyone . . . we should be able to, after specialising for twenty-five years in this class of engine.

If you write, don't just say, "I can't make my engine go."

Give us all the information you can: the type of fuel and oil . . . the type of boat . . . a description of what actually happens, or doesn't happen . . . and particularly let us know if there are any circumstances which are unusual . . . such as a special or unusual boat, etc., etc. . . . give us, especially, the ENGINE NUMBER.

If the engine cuts out suddenly, without warning, whilst running, it's ten chances to one that it's plug trouble.

Now, this is the vital point to remember.

This is the whole crux of the matter . . . if the engine won't start (always supposing that there is fuel in the carburettor, and that it hasn't run out of fuel) and shows no sign of life after three or four pulls of the starting cord, and ONLY three or four, WHIP OUT THE PLUG AT ONCE . . . don't go on pulling the cord.

After two or three attempts, every time you pull the starting cord you render the engine more and more unlikely to start at all.

If it doesn't start after two or three attempts there's something wrong, and pulling the cord makes matters worse and worse.

The cause of the trouble, initially, is more than likely a speck of fouling bridging the points of the plug . . . if the plug is removed at once, and the points cleared, on replacing the plug the engine will start immediately.

But will people do this? . . . No, they won't . . . instead, they go on pulling the starting cord for twenty minutes or so, pumping more and more petrol into the engine, and filling the plug with oil, and then have to row home, and sometimes (if they've got the strength) write a furious letter to the manufacturers.

We have no sympathy with these people at all.

Finally, remember that in any motor boat, however quiet, your voice can be heard much more clearly by surrounding craft than by your own companions . . . a supposedly confidential and innocent comment about people or their boats may well become unknowingly a public broadcast . . . there's probably enough trouble awaiting you when you get ashore without adding to it!!!

Well, good luck, and fair winds and tides, and don't forget the manufacturers are ready to help you with the best of willing advice should you need it . . . and lastly, the wise owner attaches a safety lanyard to any outboard engine as an added precaution to avoid losing it overboard.

THE BRITISH SEAGULL CO. LTD.,
SERVICE ORGANISATION"

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/images/seagull_man_2.gif

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 09-15-2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

are you suggesting using castor oil in an outboard mr stazzer newt?<hr>
Not seriously - but it has bean available forever, does work well in some situations - and is bio-degradeable.

In the past I have added it (in small quantities) to the tank of my road bike - just for the smell.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

are you suggesting using castor oil in an outboard mr stazzer newt?<hr>
Not seriously - but it has bean available forever, does work well in some situations - and is bio-degradeable.

In the past I have added it (in small quantities) to the tank of my road bike - just for the smell.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

are you suggesting using castor oil in an outboard mr stazzer newt?<hr>
Not seriously - but it has bean available forever, does work well in some situations - and is bio-degradeable.

In the past I have added it (in small quantities) to the tank of my road bike - just for the smell.

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Leon Steyns:
So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe
Leon, I am deeply insulted.

and seagulls are still noisy dangerous and polluting (assuming you can actually start one).

Look pretty good as ornaments however

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Leon Steyns:
So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe
Leon, I am deeply insulted.

and seagulls are still noisy dangerous and polluting (assuming you can actually start one).

Look pretty good as ornaments however

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Leon Steyns:
So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe
Leon, I am deeply insulted.

and seagulls are still noisy dangerous and polluting (assuming you can actually start one).

Look pretty good as ornaments however

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Which bit is dangerous?

I like the flywheel on top where I can see it.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Which bit is dangerous?

I like the flywheel on top where I can see it.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Which bit is dangerous?

I like the flywheel on top where I can see it.

[Hwyl]

The flywheel Andrew. A little girl was drowned in Benllech when the Seagull caught her hair. Everyone in the boat moved to the transom to free her hair. The boat sank by the transom.

Must have been early 70's.

[ 09-16-2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[Hwyl]

The flywheel Andrew. A little girl was drowned in Benllech when the Seagull caught her hair. Everyone in the boat moved to the transom to free her hair. The boat sank by the transom.

Must have been early 70's.

[ 09-16-2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[Hwyl]

The flywheel Andrew. A little girl was drowned in Benllech when the Seagull caught her hair. Everyone in the boat moved to the transom to free her hair. The boat sank by the transom.

Must have been early 70's.

[ 09-16-2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[Keith Wilson]

So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe Hey, give me a break; I'm a reasonably competent mechanic and could certainly keep a Seagull running if I wanted to. Two indisputable points:

Every Seagull I've ever hear running is very noisy, MUCH louder than other outboards of comparable size. I don't like loud motors, whether on my boat or the boats near me.

Old Seagulls use a 10:1 oil gas ratio, and even the newer ones use 25:1. All carbureted two-strokes, particularly old ones, blow a significant amount of the fuel/oil mixture out the exhaust port unburned (something around 25%). Thus, a lot of that gas and oil goes right into the water. The gasoline mostly evaporates, but the oil doesn't. Every old Seagull I've seen running in calm water left a discernable oil slick behind it. If one lives where they put water-soluble MTBE in the gas, that goes right into the water too. Four-strokes, modern direct-injection two-strokes, and even two-strokes that use higher fuel-oil ratios, are all much cleaner.

Now I like Seagulls; they have a lot of virtues, and I have a weakness for unusual machinery. However, the noise and pollution they produce are undeniable, and are excellent reasons to use another kind of motor.

[Keith Wilson]

So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe Hey, give me a break; I'm a reasonably competent mechanic and could certainly keep a Seagull running if I wanted to. Two indisputable points:

Every Seagull I've ever hear running is very noisy, MUCH louder than other outboards of comparable size. I don't like loud motors, whether on my boat or the boats near me.

Old Seagulls use a 10:1 oil gas ratio, and even the newer ones use 25:1. All carbureted two-strokes, particularly old ones, blow a significant amount of the fuel/oil mixture out the exhaust port unburned (something around 25%). Thus, a lot of that gas and oil goes right into the water. The gasoline mostly evaporates, but the oil doesn't. Every old Seagull I've seen running in calm water left a discernable oil slick behind it. If one lives where they put water-soluble MTBE in the gas, that goes right into the water too. Four-strokes, modern direct-injection two-strokes, and even two-strokes that use higher fuel-oil ratios, are all much cleaner.

Now I like Seagulls; they have a lot of virtues, and I have a weakness for unusual machinery. However, the noise and pollution they produce are undeniable, and are excellent reasons to use another kind of motor.

[Keith Wilson]

So, this one is especially for Keith Wilson and Ellis Rowe Hey, give me a break; I'm a reasonably competent mechanic and could certainly keep a Seagull running if I wanted to. Two indisputable points:

Every Seagull I've ever hear running is very noisy, MUCH louder than other outboards of comparable size. I don't like loud motors, whether on my boat or the boats near me.

Old Seagulls use a 10:1 oil gas ratio, and even the newer ones use 25:1. All carbureted two-strokes, particularly old ones, blow a significant amount of the fuel/oil mixture out the exhaust port unburned (something around 25%). Thus, a lot of that gas and oil goes right into the water. The gasoline mostly evaporates, but the oil doesn't. Every old Seagull I've seen running in calm water left a discernable oil slick behind it. If one lives where they put water-soluble MTBE in the gas, that goes right into the water too. Four-strokes, modern direct-injection two-strokes, and even two-strokes that use higher fuel-oil ratios, are all much cleaner.

Now I like Seagulls; they have a lot of virtues, and I have a weakness for unusual machinery. However, the noise and pollution they produce are undeniable, and are excellent reasons to use another kind of motor.

[Thorne]

We are getting out of equipment and into religion when Seagulls come up -- beware!

;- )

I'll agree with the last post. I purchased several older wooden sailboats and was told that I HAD to use a seagull -- so I did.

Lots of problems, lots of smoke and oil, and not a lot of propulsion going on. I had the motor-mount break in heavy swells on a lee shore and just managed to get into shelter.

Not saying they are junk or bad motors, but that a lot of us -- even those who love old wooden boats -- may not find them "environmentally correct" despite their many mechanical advantages over more complex outboards.

[Thorne]

We are getting out of equipment and into religion when Seagulls come up -- beware!

;- )

I'll agree with the last post. I purchased several older wooden sailboats and was told that I HAD to use a seagull -- so I did.

Lots of problems, lots of smoke and oil, and not a lot of propulsion going on. I had the motor-mount break in heavy swells on a lee shore and just managed to get into shelter.

Not saying they are junk or bad motors, but that a lot of us -- even those who love old wooden boats -- may not find them "environmentally correct" despite their many mechanical advantages over more complex outboards.

[Thorne]

We are getting out of equipment and into religion when Seagulls come up -- beware!

;- )

I'll agree with the last post. I purchased several older wooden sailboats and was told that I HAD to use a seagull -- so I did.

Lots of problems, lots of smoke and oil, and not a lot of propulsion going on. I had the motor-mount break in heavy swells on a lee shore and just managed to get into shelter.

Not saying they are junk or bad motors, but that a lot of us -- even those who love old wooden boats -- may not find them "environmentally correct" despite their many mechanical advantages over more complex outboards.

[Leon Steyns]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
The flywheel Andrew. A little girl was drowned in Benllech when the Seagull caught her hair. Everyone in the boat moved to the transom to free her hair. The boat sank by the transom.

Must have been early 70's.It was obviously not my intention to insult anyone! My apologies if you were...

The accident you describe is horrible! But how did her hair get caught in the flywheel? Accidents happen, this is of no comfort to anyone affected, but they do...

A girl was killed this summer swimming on a lake near where I live when a speedboat ran her over, her girlfriend suffered severe injuries - but she survived. I'm sure there are more examples, unfortunately.

What makes me angry is the amount of ignorance and prejudice. I'm not saying that Seagulls are cleaner than modern four-strokes! Just stop comparing the two. It's like saying that a 1952 Chevy is more pollutive than a 2005 Toyota Prius... no brainer, I believe it's called...
Some modern diesel-powered cars have a better mileage and are less pollutive than some petrol counterparts, but some people refuse to believe that.
Some people also refuse to believe that some modern two-strokes are cleaner or as clean as modern four-strokes. Like I say, ignorance and prejudice...
Not to mention political statements on fuel pricing...

For me, I simply can't afford around € 1000 ($1200) for a modern four-stroke right now. But I'll be happy to invite you for a trip and I'll show you how you can operate a Seagull (a Forty Plus in my case) without the blue clouds of smoke, without an oily trail, without any problems running for a period of time, without fuel leaking, starting on the first or second pull...

I'll never get rid of my Seagull, even if it's just for keeps in my backyard shed. If only as an example of simple and effective technology. I think the environment needs protection, but I resent 'holier-than-the-Pope'-attitudes...

I'm going to brush my teeth; this is beginning to sound like bilge stuff... :rolleyes:

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 09-16-2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[Leon Steyns]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
The flywheel Andrew. A little girl was drowned in Benllech when the Seagull caught her hair. Everyone in the boat moved to the transom to free her hair. The boat sank by the transom.

Must have been early 70's.It was obviously not my intention to insult anyone! My apologies if you were...

The accident you describe is horrible! But how did her hair get caught in the flywheel? Accidents happen, this is of no comfort to anyone affected, but they do...

A girl was killed this summer swimming on a lake near where I live when a speedboat ran her over, her girlfriend suffered severe injuries - but she survived. I'm sure there are more examples, unfortunately.

What makes me angry is the amount of ignorance and prejudice. I'm not saying that Seagulls are cleaner than modern four-strokes! Just stop comparing the two. It's like saying that a 1952 Chevy is more pollutive than a 2005 Toyota Prius... no brainer, I believe it's called...
Some modern diesel-powered cars have a better mileage and are less pollutive than some petrol counterparts, but some people refuse to believe that.
Some people also refuse to believe that some modern two-strokes are cleaner or as clean as modern four-strokes. Like I say, ignorance and prejudice...
Not to mention political statements on fuel pricing...

For me, I simply can't afford around € 1000 ($1200) for a modern four-stroke right now. But I'll be happy to invite you for a trip and I'll show you how you can operate a Seagull (a Forty Plus in my case) without the blue clouds of smoke, without an oily trail, without any problems running for a period of time, without fuel leaking, starting on the first or second pull...

I'll never get rid of my Seagull, even if it's just for keeps in my backyard shed. If only as an example of simple and effective technology. I think the environment needs protection, but I resent 'holier-than-the-Pope'-attitudes...

I'm going to brush my teeth; this is beginning to sound like bilge stuff... :rolleyes:

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 09-16-2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[Leon Steyns]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
The flywheel Andrew. A little girl was drowned in Benllech when the Seagull caught her hair. Everyone in the boat moved to the transom to free her hair. The boat sank by the transom.

Must have been early 70's.It was obviously not my intention to insult anyone! My apologies if you were...

The accident you describe is horrible! But how did her hair get caught in the flywheel? Accidents happen, this is of no comfort to anyone affected, but they do...

A girl was killed this summer swimming on a lake near where I live when a speedboat ran her over, her girlfriend suffered severe injuries - but she survived. I'm sure there are more examples, unfortunately.

What makes me angry is the amount of ignorance and prejudice. I'm not saying that Seagulls are cleaner than modern four-strokes! Just stop comparing the two. It's like saying that a 1952 Chevy is more pollutive than a 2005 Toyota Prius... no brainer, I believe it's called...
Some modern diesel-powered cars have a better mileage and are less pollutive than some petrol counterparts, but some people refuse to believe that.
Some people also refuse to believe that some modern two-strokes are cleaner or as clean as modern four-strokes. Like I say, ignorance and prejudice...
Not to mention political statements on fuel pricing...

For me, I simply can't afford around € 1000 ($1200) for a modern four-stroke right now. But I'll be happy to invite you for a trip and I'll show you how you can operate a Seagull (a Forty Plus in my case) without the blue clouds of smoke, without an oily trail, without any problems running for a period of time, without fuel leaking, starting on the first or second pull...

I'll never get rid of my Seagull, even if it's just for keeps in my backyard shed. If only as an example of simple and effective technology. I think the environment needs protection, but I resent 'holier-than-the-Pope'-attitudes...

I'm going to brush my teeth; this is beginning to sound like bilge stuff... :rolleyes:

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[ 09-16-2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Leon Steyns ]

[Hwyl]

Leon, no harm intended. Andrew asked me why they were dangerous. I answered.

I said I was insulted because you and I have always had this ongoing light hearted argument about Seagulls.

Hope your teeth are clean.

Greets Gareth Hughes

[Hwyl]

Leon, no harm intended. Andrew asked me why they were dangerous. I answered.

I said I was insulted because you and I have always had this ongoing light hearted argument about Seagulls.

Hope your teeth are clean.

Greets Gareth Hughes

[Hwyl]

Leon, no harm intended. Andrew asked me why they were dangerous. I answered.

I said I was insulted because you and I have always had this ongoing light hearted argument about Seagulls.

Hope your teeth are clean.

Greets Gareth Hughes

[Leon Steyns]

Gareth,

I do apologize again! I guess Thorne hits the nail here: when it comes to Seagulls, I guess I get way too religious about this... redface.gif redface.gif redface.gif

I'll try to behave next time! :D

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[Leon Steyns]

Gareth,

I do apologize again! I guess Thorne hits the nail here: when it comes to Seagulls, I guess I get way too religious about this... redface.gif redface.gif redface.gif

I'll try to behave next time! :D

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[Leon Steyns]

Gareth,

I do apologize again! I guess Thorne hits the nail here: when it comes to Seagulls, I guess I get way too religious about this... redface.gif redface.gif redface.gif

I'll try to behave next time! :D

Greets, Leon Steyns.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I suppose that was why they brought in the recoil starter models with the covered in flywheel - and, in due course, electronic ignition.

But sailing is a dangerous sport - and I am pretty careful not to let my children sit on the stern thwart with the Seagull running - bad weight distribution anyway.

Yes, "religion" does enter the picture.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I suppose that was why they brought in the recoil starter models with the covered in flywheel - and, in due course, electronic ignition.

But sailing is a dangerous sport - and I am pretty careful not to let my children sit on the stern thwart with the Seagull running - bad weight distribution anyway.

Yes, "religion" does enter the picture.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I suppose that was why they brought in the recoil starter models with the covered in flywheel - and, in due course, electronic ignition.

But sailing is a dangerous sport - and I am pretty careful not to let my children sit on the stern thwart with the Seagull running - bad weight distribution anyway.

Yes, "religion" does enter the picture.