Mill true your arbor flanges PERFECTLY

[John Blazy]

First fact, no matter what they say and how much you paid for your table saw, chopsaw, circ saw, body grinder etc, the face of the arbor flange is not likely perfectly ground true to the axis of the shaft, meaning that blades etc. mounted on them will wobble, even if only slightly detectible. Not new info to many of you out there, and many of you like myself simply don't want to know cuz of the amount of work it is finding the high-spot, marking it, hand filing it down, mounting blade again to test new position and still not getting it to run without "runout" or wobble.
Very important on tablesaws when you have 150 buck negative hook melamine blades and don't want bottom tearout, and the knowledge that only half the blades teeth are cutting on each side of the eccentric, which is why I spent half a day truing my arbor twelve years ago the moment I bought my then-new Delta Unisaw (tablesaw) using the above technique.
Seems I only got only a LITTLE smarter after those twelve years, cuz I just discovered a great shop trick that takes a fraction of the time and is FAR more precise. This one ranks up there with discovering diamond hones, PL Premium, and The WoodenBoat Forum. It began when I decided to mill a new step in the flange of my 4" maskita (Makita that stings cuz its arbor was way off) body grinder to accept a 7/8" arbor blade for rough stock removal (don't recommend to novices - very dangerous), and discovered that its flange was way, way off (wondered why my grinding wheels vibrated so much when new) when I milled the new step with a carbide straight bit held in Vise - grips while the machine was running, held in a vise.
I then unscrewed the backing flange to reveal the main shaft flange, and milled that true by holding the carbide edge steady and watching the shavings FLY off the high-spot then smoothly down to true flat across the whole face. Then I re-faced the other flange plates and edge to make it look pretty, and decided to re-do my tablesaw, chopsaw, circ saw and they were ALL way off ('cept the tablesaw cuz I did a good job twelve years ago after half a day's work). They run awesome now, after I fixed their little red wagons.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/pd9c1ea223770102d515cee4b2333bf1b/fccca008.jpg

So, knowing that it is this easy and fast to fix, y'all should reface yer flanges, regardless of how derogatory that sounds.
First, find one of yer old carbide bits that has chips in the carbide cuz y'all know that they are magnetized to attract themselves to concrete floors (cutting edge first) and the strength of said magnetism is proportionate to the cost of the bit.
Then clampit (Jedd) into yer vise-grips like in the pic, and kiss it to the flange of your running arbor, while holding it real steady at a backangle so as to scrape the surface, not cut (chatter potential). Mill the inside part a hair more to create a concave surface so that the contact point on the blade is the outer rim - like where my mind is sometimes. Resharpen bit often with the diamond hone in yer pocket, and it'll cut truer.
Another variation I've used to mill shafts held in drill press and regrind my brake rotors on the car is simply to hold the grinder to the flange face as long as you hold steady - JB

[ 01-10-2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: John Blazy ]

[John Blazy]

First fact, no matter what they say and how much you paid for your table saw, chopsaw, circ saw, body grinder etc, the face of the arbor flange is not likely perfectly ground true to the axis of the shaft, meaning that blades etc. mounted on them will wobble, even if only slightly detectible. Not new info to many of you out there, and many of you like myself simply don't want to know cuz of the amount of work it is finding the high-spot, marking it, hand filing it down, mounting blade again to test new position and still not getting it to run without "runout" or wobble.
Very important on tablesaws when you have 150 buck negative hook melamine blades and don't want bottom tearout, and the knowledge that only half the blades teeth are cutting on each side of the eccentric, which is why I spent half a day truing my arbor twelve years ago the moment I bought my then-new Delta Unisaw (tablesaw) using the above technique.
Seems I only got only a LITTLE smarter after those twelve years, cuz I just discovered a great shop trick that takes a fraction of the time and is FAR more precise. This one ranks up there with discovering diamond hones, PL Premium, and The WoodenBoat Forum. It began when I decided to mill a new step in the flange of my 4" maskita (Makita that stings cuz its arbor was way off) body grinder to accept a 7/8" arbor blade for rough stock removal (don't recommend to novices - very dangerous), and discovered that its flange was way, way off (wondered why my grinding wheels vibrated so much when new) when I milled the new step with a carbide straight bit held in Vise - grips while the machine was running, held in a vise.
I then unscrewed the backing flange to reveal the main shaft flange, and milled that true by holding the carbide edge steady and watching the shavings FLY off the high-spot then smoothly down to true flat across the whole face. Then I re-faced the other flange plates and edge to make it look pretty, and decided to re-do my tablesaw, chopsaw, circ saw and they were ALL way off ('cept the tablesaw cuz I did a good job twelve years ago after half a day's work). They run awesome now, after I fixed their little red wagons.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/pd9c1ea223770102d515cee4b2333bf1b/fccca008.jpg

So, knowing that it is this easy and fast to fix, y'all should reface yer flanges, regardless of how derogatory that sounds.
First, find one of yer old carbide bits that has chips in the carbide cuz y'all know that they are magnetized to attract themselves to concrete floors (cutting edge first) and the strength of said magnetism is proportionate to the cost of the bit.
Then clampit (Jedd) into yer vise-grips like in the pic, and kiss it to the flange of your running arbor, while holding it real steady at a backangle so as to scrape the surface, not cut (chatter potential). Mill the inside part a hair more to create a concave surface so that the contact point on the blade is the outer rim - like where my mind is sometimes. Resharpen bit often with the diamond hone in yer pocket, and it'll cut truer.
Another variation I've used to mill shafts held in drill press and regrind my brake rotors on the car is simply to hold the grinder to the flange face as long as you hold steady - JB

[ 01-10-2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: John Blazy ]

[John Blazy]

First fact, no matter what they say and how much you paid for your table saw, chopsaw, circ saw, body grinder etc, the face of the arbor flange is not likely perfectly ground true to the axis of the shaft, meaning that blades etc. mounted on them will wobble, even if only slightly detectible. Not new info to many of you out there, and many of you like myself simply don't want to know cuz of the amount of work it is finding the high-spot, marking it, hand filing it down, mounting blade again to test new position and still not getting it to run without "runout" or wobble.
Very important on tablesaws when you have 150 buck negative hook melamine blades and don't want bottom tearout, and the knowledge that only half the blades teeth are cutting on each side of the eccentric, which is why I spent half a day truing my arbor twelve years ago the moment I bought my then-new Delta Unisaw (tablesaw) using the above technique.
Seems I only got only a LITTLE smarter after those twelve years, cuz I just discovered a great shop trick that takes a fraction of the time and is FAR more precise. This one ranks up there with discovering diamond hones, PL Premium, and The WoodenBoat Forum. It began when I decided to mill a new step in the flange of my 4" maskita (Makita that stings cuz its arbor was way off) body grinder to accept a 7/8" arbor blade for rough stock removal (don't recommend to novices - very dangerous), and discovered that its flange was way, way off (wondered why my grinding wheels vibrated so much when new) when I milled the new step with a carbide straight bit held in Vise - grips while the machine was running, held in a vise.
I then unscrewed the backing flange to reveal the main shaft flange, and milled that true by holding the carbide edge steady and watching the shavings FLY off the high-spot then smoothly down to true flat across the whole face. Then I re-faced the other flange plates and edge to make it look pretty, and decided to re-do my tablesaw, chopsaw, circ saw and they were ALL way off ('cept the tablesaw cuz I did a good job twelve years ago after half a day's work). They run awesome now, after I fixed their little red wagons.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/pd9c1ea223770102d515cee4b2333bf1b/fccca008.jpg

So, knowing that it is this easy and fast to fix, y'all should reface yer flanges, regardless of how derogatory that sounds.
First, find one of yer old carbide bits that has chips in the carbide cuz y'all know that they are magnetized to attract themselves to concrete floors (cutting edge first) and the strength of said magnetism is proportionate to the cost of the bit.
Then clampit (Jedd) into yer vise-grips like in the pic, and kiss it to the flange of your running arbor, while holding it real steady at a backangle so as to scrape the surface, not cut (chatter potential). Mill the inside part a hair more to create a concave surface so that the contact point on the blade is the outer rim - like where my mind is sometimes. Resharpen bit often with the diamond hone in yer pocket, and it'll cut truer.
Another variation I've used to mill shafts held in drill press and regrind my brake rotors on the car is simply to hold the grinder to the flange face as long as you hold steady - JB

[ 01-10-2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: John Blazy ]

[On Vacation]

Okay, what if you get the whole darm thing unsized on your brandy new 1,500 dollar Delta out of the box?

[On Vacation]

Okay, what if you get the whole darm thing unsized on your brandy new 1,500 dollar Delta out of the box?

[On Vacation]

Okay, what if you get the whole darm thing unsized on your brandy new 1,500 dollar Delta out of the box?

[gary porter]

John, thanks for the good post. I ran into that very problem with a new PowerMatic 66. I removed the arbor and had a machinest friend clean it up. The factory one was horible looking and by that I mean the casting had not been trued up etc. I talked to the factory and they sent me another one. Our plan now is to machine our own one piece arbors, my friend has the same model saw.
Gary

[gary porter]

John, thanks for the good post. I ran into that very problem with a new PowerMatic 66. I removed the arbor and had a machinest friend clean it up. The factory one was horible looking and by that I mean the casting had not been trued up etc. I talked to the factory and they sent me another one. Our plan now is to machine our own one piece arbors, my friend has the same model saw.
Gary

[gary porter]

John, thanks for the good post. I ran into that very problem with a new PowerMatic 66. I removed the arbor and had a machinest friend clean it up. The factory one was horible looking and by that I mean the casting had not been trued up etc. I talked to the factory and they sent me another one. Our plan now is to machine our own one piece arbors, my friend has the same model saw.
Gary

[videoguy]

John I just tried you idea about a half hour ago it was a big help . I still have a little run out on the saw but I think most of that is the blade.Do you have any cool ideas about telling if it is the blade or the arbor. Thanks for the posting it was a big help. ..........Phil

[videoguy]

John I just tried you idea about a half hour ago it was a big help . I still have a little run out on the saw but I think most of that is the blade.Do you have any cool ideas about telling if it is the blade or the arbor. Thanks for the posting it was a big help. ..........Phil

[videoguy]

John I just tried you idea about a half hour ago it was a big help . I still have a little run out on the saw but I think most of that is the blade.Do you have any cool ideas about telling if it is the blade or the arbor. Thanks for the posting it was a big help. ..........Phil

[Tom Lathrop]

You can use a dial indicator on the slowly rotating flange to read the runout. Several outfits including Grizzly sell the dial and magnetic mounting fixture for $20 to $30. Great for truing up bandsaw wheels and other stuff in the shop too.

I use a small grinding wheel on a Dremmel tool to take out the high spots and it works fine as I'm sure the carbide does too. I do the job on the saw with the motor driving the spindle. Never thought of demounting the thing.

[Tom Lathrop]

You can use a dial indicator on the slowly rotating flange to read the runout. Several outfits including Grizzly sell the dial and magnetic mounting fixture for $20 to $30. Great for truing up bandsaw wheels and other stuff in the shop too.

I use a small grinding wheel on a Dremmel tool to take out the high spots and it works fine as I'm sure the carbide does too. I do the job on the saw with the motor driving the spindle. Never thought of demounting the thing.

[Tom Lathrop]

You can use a dial indicator on the slowly rotating flange to read the runout. Several outfits including Grizzly sell the dial and magnetic mounting fixture for $20 to $30. Great for truing up bandsaw wheels and other stuff in the shop too.

I use a small grinding wheel on a Dremmel tool to take out the high spots and it works fine as I'm sure the carbide does too. I do the job on the saw with the motor driving the spindle. Never thought of demounting the thing.

[John Blazy]

To tell the difference between blade and flange runout, (to see if the blade is untrue, i.e. cupped or twisted slightly as would happen after a bad kickback, which, of course never happens to me ;) ) would be to lightly tighten the blade on, check its high spots by rotating it against the guage Tom was talking about, or use a steel bar or something clamped to table just kissing the outer blade area. Then loosen the blade, and rotate the blade (not the arbor) half a turn, re-tighten and check again. If high spot follows the blade as you mount it differently on the flange, then its the blade with a problem - if not, then its the flange that is still off, which absolutely shouldn't be if you do the refacing right. If you hand hold the carbide or even a small dremel against the flange, you may (not likely) be removing material evenly, following the contour of the eccentric, so its best to brace your hand as much as possible. The larger the tool (like mounting the carbide in vise-grips) or using some kind of tool rest like on a lathe, the truer the refacing. -JB

[John Blazy]

To tell the difference between blade and flange runout, (to see if the blade is untrue, i.e. cupped or twisted slightly as would happen after a bad kickback, which, of course never happens to me ;) ) would be to lightly tighten the blade on, check its high spots by rotating it against the guage Tom was talking about, or use a steel bar or something clamped to table just kissing the outer blade area. Then loosen the blade, and rotate the blade (not the arbor) half a turn, re-tighten and check again. If high spot follows the blade as you mount it differently on the flange, then its the blade with a problem - if not, then its the flange that is still off, which absolutely shouldn't be if you do the refacing right. If you hand hold the carbide or even a small dremel against the flange, you may (not likely) be removing material evenly, following the contour of the eccentric, so its best to brace your hand as much as possible. The larger the tool (like mounting the carbide in vise-grips) or using some kind of tool rest like on a lathe, the truer the refacing. -JB

[John Blazy]

To tell the difference between blade and flange runout, (to see if the blade is untrue, i.e. cupped or twisted slightly as would happen after a bad kickback, which, of course never happens to me ;) ) would be to lightly tighten the blade on, check its high spots by rotating it against the guage Tom was talking about, or use a steel bar or something clamped to table just kissing the outer blade area. Then loosen the blade, and rotate the blade (not the arbor) half a turn, re-tighten and check again. If high spot follows the blade as you mount it differently on the flange, then its the blade with a problem - if not, then its the flange that is still off, which absolutely shouldn't be if you do the refacing right. If you hand hold the carbide or even a small dremel against the flange, you may (not likely) be removing material evenly, following the contour of the eccentric, so its best to brace your hand as much as possible. The larger the tool (like mounting the carbide in vise-grips) or using some kind of tool rest like on a lathe, the truer the refacing. -JB