Ceiling......

[WRB]

Okay, so you have done the right thing and used copper rivits to fasten your planking to the frames and your about to start installing ceiling boards to the cabin area...
no literature I have read on boat building mentions what to do about all those peened over rivits sticking up through the frames that are going to foul the fit of the ceiling. Should I dig holes in the back of the boards (water trap)
Any suggestions......

Cheers
Warren

[Mike Field]

Warren, in Sanderling (which is not plank-on-frame but strip-planked,) the ceiling consists of battens a couple of inches wide with gaps between for ventilation. Could you arrange something similar for yourself so that most rivets are in the gaps?

If you then make recesses, as you suggest, for those that aren't, the added ventilation will probably remove any risk of water gathering there.

The downside is that there are a lot of screws to drive,,,,,


http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1231924&a=9316678&p=30429257

[Rich VanValkenburg]

Our Sonja originally had a set of four, false ceiling-ribs that the ceiling was attached to. These stood a little proud of the frames so the rivets didn't get in the way. The ceiling ribs were installed first by attaching them to structural frames, and the ceiling attached to the ribs. They left the screws for the ceiling ribs in strategic places so the whole thing was removable (in one piece) to get at the planks and frames for inspection.

[This message has been edited by Rich VanValkenburg (edited 10-02-2001).]

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

I do just that, drill little holes in hardwood soles and ceilings. cedar, however, is soft enough that they rivets just kind of indent themselves into the wood.

[Dale Genther]

On my boat, Boreal, there are thin strips (<1/8" thick) of flexible wood about as wide as the frames, these are lightly attached to the frames with copper tacks. These strips "bridge" the rivet heads and provide a smooth curved surface for the ceiling to be attached to. The ceiling is screwed thru these wood strips into the frames using no. 6 bronze screws about 3/4 in long. Works fine.

[Andrew]

In all these cases, is the ceiling just for aesthetics?

[Ian McColgin]

The ceiling does two nice things:

Keeps stuff away from the potentially damp hull; and

Provides a venting pathway up along the hull - there should be a space at the shelf and clamp - allowing good air circulation along the inside of the hull.

Some believe that the venting is inhibited by spacing between the ceiling strips while others imagine its improved. Only we heavey pipe smokers who have done scientific studies know for certain but those data are classified.

[Steve Souther]

I was under the impression that a ceiling was intended mainly to strengthen the hull.

Steve

[Ian McColgin]

On ships and some smaller vessels built for hard service the ceiling does indeed strengthen essential double hull the boat. For yachts, that concern is less common.

[Peter Jacobs]

Mike, tell us more about "Sanderling". That interior looks beautiful!!

-Peter-

[WRB]

Mike, Sanderling does look great, but I thing the rivits will still be a problem. I like the sound of the removable ceiling units in "Sonja" and that is the way I will probably go. The Boat (A Sallee Rover by Sam Crocker... not yet started!) is only twenty foot so the extra work won't add up to much. I am just finishing up a Catspaw dinghy and then I will be lofting her

Thanks for the replies
and just a reminder to the Americans... our thoughts and best wishes are with you (we are all still in shock down here)

Warren

[Mike Field]

Warren, I liked the sound of Sonja too. In a post that clearly sprained a fetlock before completing the course, I asked Rich why he said "originally had," and asked what had happened since. I'd still like to know.

Peter, Sanderling's a YM 3-tonner, built here in Melbourne in 1972/73. There are some more photos of her at --

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1231924&a=9316678&f=0

and yes, I like her too. Thank you.

[Rich VanValkenburg]

Mike, this might explain a little. We replaced 28 pairs of frames and after getting the new cabin and cockpit on, we still haven't decided what to do about what little space there is inside of her. The original ceiling was mahogany and it made the inside too dark and cave-like. I told SWMBO I wanted white cedar ceiling, SWMBO said "I like it without the ceiling." We'll see who wins, but the point being is that we just haven't gotten around to that part of the rebuild yet. Another nice thing about the removable ceilings is fewer holes in the frames.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1526934&a=13508261&p=54848689&Sequence=0&res=high


[This message has been edited by Rich VanValkenburg (edited 10-04-2001).]

[Mike Field]

Thanks, Rich. I'd forgotten, if I knew, that you were being industrious like that with her.

I suppose a key factor for you, given the somewhat limited internal space, is how much would be lost to the ceiling -- especially if you used the same stand-off design again. But I do like that idea, and it's been filed for future reference.

What a lovely boat. And as for those deck reflections,,,,,

[Rich VanValkenburg]

The old ceilings with their own ribs only ate up maybe 3/8" on each side. The slats were 2" x 1/4" and the seperate ribs stood just barely proud of the rivets.