wiring 220v

[win_wood]

I am adding a subpanel to my shop and was wondering, if my 220v outlets don't have a ground wire attachment is there any need for one or is it grounded at the machine? I also just discovered that I need to remove the bonding strap between the neutral and ground terminals in the subpanel. Correct?

[win_wood]

I am adding a subpanel to my shop and was wondering, if my 220v outlets don't have a ground wire attachment is there any need for one or is it grounded at the machine? I also just discovered that I need to remove the bonding strap between the neutral and ground terminals in the subpanel. Correct?

[win_wood]

I am adding a subpanel to my shop and was wondering, if my 220v outlets don't have a ground wire attachment is there any need for one or is it grounded at the machine? I also just discovered that I need to remove the bonding strap between the neutral and ground terminals in the subpanel. Correct?

[Stiletto]

If you have to ask you need an electrician. Possibly just to check it over once completed.

[Stiletto]

If you have to ask you need an electrician. Possibly just to check it over once completed.

[Stiletto]

If you have to ask you need an electrician. Possibly just to check it over once completed.

[Tom Lathrop]

No ground wire on 220 volt outlets? Hard to believe. In that case there will be no ground on the metal case of any tool attached to that outlet. I would use rubber gloves and thick rubber soled shoes to use any tool connected to that circuit.

As for removing the neutral/ground strap at the panel, I'm not sure I understand you. Feed each side of the 220 input to the box to separate breakers and the green wire goes to ground along with the "neutral" from the 110 circuits. There will be no "neutral" wire on the 220 circuits other than the green ground wire.

Seriously, a ground on 220 circuits is even more important than on 110 volts. Any leakage current on whatever device you are using will have only one path back to ground. Right through you!! My advice is to get some new properly grounded outlets before you think about using that 220 volts.

[ 02-19-2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[Tom Lathrop]

No ground wire on 220 volt outlets? Hard to believe. In that case there will be no ground on the metal case of any tool attached to that outlet. I would use rubber gloves and thick rubber soled shoes to use any tool connected to that circuit.

As for removing the neutral/ground strap at the panel, I'm not sure I understand you. Feed each side of the 220 input to the box to separate breakers and the green wire goes to ground along with the "neutral" from the 110 circuits. There will be no "neutral" wire on the 220 circuits other than the green ground wire.

Seriously, a ground on 220 circuits is even more important than on 110 volts. Any leakage current on whatever device you are using will have only one path back to ground. Right through you!! My advice is to get some new properly grounded outlets before you think about using that 220 volts.

[ 02-19-2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[Tom Lathrop]

No ground wire on 220 volt outlets? Hard to believe. In that case there will be no ground on the metal case of any tool attached to that outlet. I would use rubber gloves and thick rubber soled shoes to use any tool connected to that circuit.

As for removing the neutral/ground strap at the panel, I'm not sure I understand you. Feed each side of the 220 input to the box to separate breakers and the green wire goes to ground along with the "neutral" from the 110 circuits. There will be no "neutral" wire on the 220 circuits other than the green ground wire.

Seriously, a ground on 220 circuits is even more important than on 110 volts. Any leakage current on whatever device you are using will have only one path back to ground. Right through you!! My advice is to get some new properly grounded outlets before you think about using that 220 volts.

[ 02-19-2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[Ed Harrow]

Can I have your tools? Pretty please...

If you insist on doing the install yourself (and I would) get yourself down to your local source of the National Electrical Code book and read up on what you are doing. All my 220V stuff is grounded (three-prong plug). As was mentioned, a screwed up 220 install can ruin your survivors' day.

:eek:

[Ed Harrow]

Can I have your tools? Pretty please...

If you insist on doing the install yourself (and I would) get yourself down to your local source of the National Electrical Code book and read up on what you are doing. All my 220V stuff is grounded (three-prong plug). As was mentioned, a screwed up 220 install can ruin your survivors' day.

:eek:

[Ed Harrow]

Can I have your tools? Pretty please...

If you insist on doing the install yourself (and I would) get yourself down to your local source of the National Electrical Code book and read up on what you are doing. All my 220V stuff is grounded (three-prong plug). As was mentioned, a screwed up 220 install can ruin your survivors' day.

:eek:

[Stiletto]

In fairness, a lot (most?)modern tools are double insulated and not grounded, but sawbeches and the like would be.

[Stiletto]

In fairness, a lot (most?)modern tools are double insulated and not grounded, but sawbeches and the like would be.

[Stiletto]

In fairness, a lot (most?)modern tools are double insulated and not grounded, but sawbeches and the like would be.

[htom]

What most of them said; you need a ggod book or an electrician or both (and I've never seen a double-insulated 220 V tool.)

[htom]

What most of them said; you need a ggod book or an electrician or both (and I've never seen a double-insulated 220 V tool.)

[htom]

What most of them said; you need a ggod book or an electrician or both (and I've never seen a double-insulated 220 V tool.)

[win_wood]

Maybe I should better explain myself. I am running 10-3 wire w/ground from the new outlet to my new subpanel into a double pole (220v) 30 amp breaker. I have removed the strap between the nuetral and ground terminals in the panel because I know now that they should onlt be bonded together at the main panel. I have wired this same outlet at my previous workshop but it has been a while. My question was if I am wiring a 3-prong outlet for a 3-prong plug there are only 2 hot and 1 neutral screw on the outlet. The 2 (red,black) hot wires run to the breaker and the white neutral wire runs to the neutral bar. Do I have any need for the ground wire or could I just use 10-3 w/o ground wire. From what I understand the machine is grounded to the cabinet of the machine on these big tools or the neutral acts as the ground? Just looking for some affirmation. Thanks for the help. By the way the components I am using are all brand new.

[win_wood]

Maybe I should better explain myself. I am running 10-3 wire w/ground from the new outlet to my new subpanel into a double pole (220v) 30 amp breaker. I have removed the strap between the nuetral and ground terminals in the panel because I know now that they should onlt be bonded together at the main panel. I have wired this same outlet at my previous workshop but it has been a while. My question was if I am wiring a 3-prong outlet for a 3-prong plug there are only 2 hot and 1 neutral screw on the outlet. The 2 (red,black) hot wires run to the breaker and the white neutral wire runs to the neutral bar. Do I have any need for the ground wire or could I just use 10-3 w/o ground wire. From what I understand the machine is grounded to the cabinet of the machine on these big tools or the neutral acts as the ground? Just looking for some affirmation. Thanks for the help. By the way the components I am using are all brand new.

[win_wood]

Maybe I should better explain myself. I am running 10-3 wire w/ground from the new outlet to my new subpanel into a double pole (220v) 30 amp breaker. I have removed the strap between the nuetral and ground terminals in the panel because I know now that they should onlt be bonded together at the main panel. I have wired this same outlet at my previous workshop but it has been a while. My question was if I am wiring a 3-prong outlet for a 3-prong plug there are only 2 hot and 1 neutral screw on the outlet. The 2 (red,black) hot wires run to the breaker and the white neutral wire runs to the neutral bar. Do I have any need for the ground wire or could I just use 10-3 w/o ground wire. From what I understand the machine is grounded to the cabinet of the machine on these big tools or the neutral acts as the ground? Just looking for some affirmation. Thanks for the help. By the way the components I am using are all brand new.

[Del Lansing]

Yes you need the ground. With 220v there is no neutral. If you never plan on expanding this new box to deliver 110v you can forget the neutral; but if_maybe_later you want 110 you will need the neutral. On a 220v outlet the the pins are: 2 in the shape of a "V", hots, other pin is_ground_. Don't use the ground wire as neutral. If you_never_plan on using 110v at that outlet you can use 10-2 w/ground.

[Del Lansing]

Yes you need the ground. With 220v there is no neutral. If you never plan on expanding this new box to deliver 110v you can forget the neutral; but if_maybe_later you want 110 you will need the neutral. On a 220v outlet the the pins are: 2 in the shape of a "V", hots, other pin is_ground_. Don't use the ground wire as neutral. If you_never_plan on using 110v at that outlet you can use 10-2 w/ground.

[Del Lansing]

Yes you need the ground. With 220v there is no neutral. If you never plan on expanding this new box to deliver 110v you can forget the neutral; but if_maybe_later you want 110 you will need the neutral. On a 220v outlet the the pins are: 2 in the shape of a "V", hots, other pin is_ground_. Don't use the ground wire as neutral. If you_never_plan on using 110v at that outlet you can use 10-2 w/ground.

[Bob Smalser]

Consult your machine's manuals, too....some have a 110v light or other doodad that require all 4 wires....red and black hots, white neutral and bare ground. The latest NEC requires 4 prong outlets for such machines, I believe.

And subpanels do not have the neutral bonded to ground at the box....that is done only on the main or service panel. And make sure any metal receptacle boxes are grounded.

[ 02-20-2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bob Smalser]

Consult your machine's manuals, too....some have a 110v light or other doodad that require all 4 wires....red and black hots, white neutral and bare ground. The latest NEC requires 4 prong outlets for such machines, I believe.

And subpanels do not have the neutral bonded to ground at the box....that is done only on the main or service panel. And make sure any metal receptacle boxes are grounded.

[ 02-20-2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bob Smalser]

Consult your machine's manuals, too....some have a 110v light or other doodad that require all 4 wires....red and black hots, white neutral and bare ground. The latest NEC requires 4 prong outlets for such machines, I believe.

And subpanels do not have the neutral bonded to ground at the box....that is done only on the main or service panel. And make sure any metal receptacle boxes are grounded.

[ 02-20-2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[George Roberts]

win_wood ---

(I really don't want to get involved in this but I also don't want you or others reading this thread to get hurt.)

You should follow the manufacturer's directions for a plug and recept.

If your machine uses just 220v, it only needs the 2 hots and a ground (you can lose the white wire).

If your machine uses 110v as well as 220v, it needs all 4 wires and a different plug and recept.

As Stiletto said the ground is unnecessary for the machines operation (except to comply with the code.)

[George Roberts]

win_wood ---

(I really don't want to get involved in this but I also don't want you or others reading this thread to get hurt.)

You should follow the manufacturer's directions for a plug and recept.

If your machine uses just 220v, it only needs the 2 hots and a ground (you can lose the white wire).

If your machine uses 110v as well as 220v, it needs all 4 wires and a different plug and recept.

As Stiletto said the ground is unnecessary for the machines operation (except to comply with the code.)

[George Roberts]

win_wood ---

(I really don't want to get involved in this but I also don't want you or others reading this thread to get hurt.)

You should follow the manufacturer's directions for a plug and recept.

If your machine uses just 220v, it only needs the 2 hots and a ground (you can lose the white wire).

If your machine uses 110v as well as 220v, it needs all 4 wires and a different plug and recept.

As Stiletto said the ground is unnecessary for the machines operation (except to comply with the code.)

[leon bee]

Confusion on this began to arise with newer clothes dryers. Dryers were always straight 240, 2 hots and a ground. Then newer dryers began to have some 120 parts, buzzers, LEDs, etc., so codes had to require a nuetral. Many new dryers are using the ground for nuetral, but it ain't right. As was posted above. If your subpanel is in a different structure from main panel, a new set of rules kicks in.

[leon bee]

Confusion on this began to arise with newer clothes dryers. Dryers were always straight 240, 2 hots and a ground. Then newer dryers began to have some 120 parts, buzzers, LEDs, etc., so codes had to require a nuetral. Many new dryers are using the ground for nuetral, but it ain't right. As was posted above. If your subpanel is in a different structure from main panel, a new set of rules kicks in.

[leon bee]

Confusion on this began to arise with newer clothes dryers. Dryers were always straight 240, 2 hots and a ground. Then newer dryers began to have some 120 parts, buzzers, LEDs, etc., so codes had to require a nuetral. Many new dryers are using the ground for nuetral, but it ain't right. As was posted above. If your subpanel is in a different structure from main panel, a new set of rules kicks in.

[htom]

Document what you're intending to do, and leave that documentation at the box to help the next guy figure it out when you're hit by a truck.

[htom]

Document what you're intending to do, and leave that documentation at the box to help the next guy figure it out when you're hit by a truck.

[htom]

Document what you're intending to do, and leave that documentation at the box to help the next guy figure it out when you're hit by a truck.

[gary porter]

As I think some have said here or perhaps have approached. The 220v circuit for your machines needs two hot leads and a ground that must connect to the outlet as well. Sounds like your using a dryer or stove outlet,,,not the best thing. They do use a neutral but thats because ,as said here, they have a 110 component. If your plug only has three prongs then the center one should be a ground. You might consider replaceing the plugs and outlets to be more straight forward. One cenario that works well is to, if your using conduit, install a 4x4 box with one 220v outlet and one 110 duplex outlet. Then run the two hots , one neutral, and a ground. Don't use the conduit for the ground. There are many books that might help if you need them. Good Luck and be very Careful.....
Gary

[gary porter]

As I think some have said here or perhaps have approached. The 220v circuit for your machines needs two hot leads and a ground that must connect to the outlet as well. Sounds like your using a dryer or stove outlet,,,not the best thing. They do use a neutral but thats because ,as said here, they have a 110 component. If your plug only has three prongs then the center one should be a ground. You might consider replaceing the plugs and outlets to be more straight forward. One cenario that works well is to, if your using conduit, install a 4x4 box with one 220v outlet and one 110 duplex outlet. Then run the two hots , one neutral, and a ground. Don't use the conduit for the ground. There are many books that might help if you need them. Good Luck and be very Careful.....
Gary

[gary porter]

As I think some have said here or perhaps have approached. The 220v circuit for your machines needs two hot leads and a ground that must connect to the outlet as well. Sounds like your using a dryer or stove outlet,,,not the best thing. They do use a neutral but thats because ,as said here, they have a 110 component. If your plug only has three prongs then the center one should be a ground. You might consider replaceing the plugs and outlets to be more straight forward. One cenario that works well is to, if your using conduit, install a 4x4 box with one 220v outlet and one 110 duplex outlet. Then run the two hots , one neutral, and a ground. Don't use the conduit for the ground. There are many books that might help if you need them. Good Luck and be very Careful.....
Gary

[Stiletto]

My apologies , Here in NZ 220/240v is standard and all new power tools are double insulated whereas stationary equipment isnt neccesarily so.

[Stiletto]

My apologies , Here in NZ 220/240v is standard and all new power tools are double insulated whereas stationary equipment isnt neccesarily so.

[Stiletto]

My apologies , Here in NZ 220/240v is standard and all new power tools are double insulated whereas stationary equipment isnt neccesarily so.