vacuum pump

[jrandy]

can anyone recomend a vacuum pump for vacuum baging veneer and dare i say it here a14'by 16' foam core glass panel. i'm sad to say that there isn't enough woodwork in this area to not have to do glasswork also . thanks, randy

[jrandy]

can anyone recomend a vacuum pump for vacuum baging veneer and dare i say it here a14'by 16' foam core glass panel. i'm sad to say that there isn't enough woodwork in this area to not have to do glasswork also . thanks, randy

[jrandy]

can anyone recomend a vacuum pump for vacuum baging veneer and dare i say it here a14'by 16' foam core glass panel. i'm sad to say that there isn't enough woodwork in this area to not have to do glasswork also . thanks, randy

[gashmore]

If you have a fairly good air compressor, I would recommend a venturi vacuum generator. If you have an old 1750 RPM motor sitting around, Arbee Sales has a bunch of surplus Gast vane type pumps for about $50 each.

I have two rigs. A venturi system and a frame with 3 of the pumps belt driven from an old pool filter motor. The pump system gets used for really big bags like the whole hull.

The venturi system gets used for everything else. It will easily pull a 9'x14' bag to about 20"Hg. I rigged a solenoid to a vacuum switch and added a check valve on the vacuum line so it is self tending. With a tight bag it cuts on about 10 seconds every minute or so and uses very little compressed air. Last month I added a 3 gallon air can as a reservoir. Now it runs about 30 seconds every 3 or 4 minutes. The compressor with a 60 gallon tank cuts on about every half hour. I have about $200 total in it.

[gashmore]

If you have a fairly good air compressor, I would recommend a venturi vacuum generator. If you have an old 1750 RPM motor sitting around, Arbee Sales has a bunch of surplus Gast vane type pumps for about $50 each.

I have two rigs. A venturi system and a frame with 3 of the pumps belt driven from an old pool filter motor. The pump system gets used for really big bags like the whole hull.

The venturi system gets used for everything else. It will easily pull a 9'x14' bag to about 20"Hg. I rigged a solenoid to a vacuum switch and added a check valve on the vacuum line so it is self tending. With a tight bag it cuts on about 10 seconds every minute or so and uses very little compressed air. Last month I added a 3 gallon air can as a reservoir. Now it runs about 30 seconds every 3 or 4 minutes. The compressor with a 60 gallon tank cuts on about every half hour. I have about $200 total in it.

[gashmore]

If you have a fairly good air compressor, I would recommend a venturi vacuum generator. If you have an old 1750 RPM motor sitting around, Arbee Sales has a bunch of surplus Gast vane type pumps for about $50 each.

I have two rigs. A venturi system and a frame with 3 of the pumps belt driven from an old pool filter motor. The pump system gets used for really big bags like the whole hull.

The venturi system gets used for everything else. It will easily pull a 9'x14' bag to about 20"Hg. I rigged a solenoid to a vacuum switch and added a check valve on the vacuum line so it is self tending. With a tight bag it cuts on about 10 seconds every minute or so and uses very little compressed air. Last month I added a 3 gallon air can as a reservoir. Now it runs about 30 seconds every 3 or 4 minutes. The compressor with a 60 gallon tank cuts on about every half hour. I have about $200 total in it.

[TomRobb]

I hear that the compressor from an old refrigerator will do it and as salvage it ought to be cheap if not free. Don't, of course, just dump the freon. My Celt skin isn't fond of UV.

[TomRobb]

I hear that the compressor from an old refrigerator will do it and as salvage it ought to be cheap if not free. Don't, of course, just dump the freon. My Celt skin isn't fond of UV.

[TomRobb]

I hear that the compressor from an old refrigerator will do it and as salvage it ought to be cheap if not free. Don't, of course, just dump the freon. My Celt skin isn't fond of UV.

[Andrew]

Put a fan blowing on the old fridge pump. Without freon to take away the heat, it will overheat.

[Andrew]

Put a fan blowing on the old fridge pump. Without freon to take away the heat, it will overheat.

[Andrew]

Put a fan blowing on the old fridge pump. Without freon to take away the heat, it will overheat.

[gashmore]

The other problem with refrigerator compressors is that the refrigerant also carries the lubrication. You have to rig a way to introduce some WD40 on a regular basis or it will be very short lived. You also have to make sure the bag does not vent back throught the compressor or it will suck oil back onto your veneer.

If you are going to try it, get the oldest model you can find. My first vacuum pump was out of a 1950's model Frigidare that I put into a high vacuum system ala CL Stong of Scientific American fame. It ran for several years doing science projects an some light bagging. I tried to replace it with a 1980's model GE and it burned up in a matter of hours.

[gashmore]

The other problem with refrigerator compressors is that the refrigerant also carries the lubrication. You have to rig a way to introduce some WD40 on a regular basis or it will be very short lived. You also have to make sure the bag does not vent back throught the compressor or it will suck oil back onto your veneer.

If you are going to try it, get the oldest model you can find. My first vacuum pump was out of a 1950's model Frigidare that I put into a high vacuum system ala CL Stong of Scientific American fame. It ran for several years doing science projects an some light bagging. I tried to replace it with a 1980's model GE and it burned up in a matter of hours.

[gashmore]

The other problem with refrigerator compressors is that the refrigerant also carries the lubrication. You have to rig a way to introduce some WD40 on a regular basis or it will be very short lived. You also have to make sure the bag does not vent back throught the compressor or it will suck oil back onto your veneer.

If you are going to try it, get the oldest model you can find. My first vacuum pump was out of a 1950's model Frigidare that I put into a high vacuum system ala CL Stong of Scientific American fame. It ran for several years doing science projects an some light bagging. I tried to replace it with a 1980's model GE and it burned up in a matter of hours.

[Ed Harrow]

As the probable resident expert on "nothing", may I suggest you take a look here for your vacuum pump needs: http://www.helixtechnology.com/ To bad you live so far away, I could fix you up with just about any kind of vacuum pump you'd like to try.

Venturi types likely will do a fine job, as gashmore says. Refrigerator compressors are possible, but beware both the lubrication problem and the backstreaming problem (oil migrating from compressor pump to item being evacuated. If you could get yourself an old copeland recip compressor that might do the job.

GE lost a ton of money when they decided they could make refrig compressors cheaper than they could by them. Pretty hysterical, but oh so typical. The unit was designed, and they were being tested in a lab. The lab techs said to their boss the thing was a piece of junk. Their boss said to his boss, "We're having some issues, but my boys are on top of it." And so it went, up the chain of command, until it got to Jack, where the reports were glowing about their new design. GE called their suppliers and cancelled all outstanding orders; introduced the new compressor with a ten-year warranty. If I recollect correctly the first one failed in less than one year. GE had to go back, tail between legs, to their old vendors who all, interestingly, had to raise their prices... This was a front page story in the WSJ.

Remember, vacuum pumps don't suck, vacuum chambers (bags) blow...

[Ed Harrow]

As the probable resident expert on "nothing", may I suggest you take a look here for your vacuum pump needs: http://www.helixtechnology.com/ To bad you live so far away, I could fix you up with just about any kind of vacuum pump you'd like to try.

Venturi types likely will do a fine job, as gashmore says. Refrigerator compressors are possible, but beware both the lubrication problem and the backstreaming problem (oil migrating from compressor pump to item being evacuated. If you could get yourself an old copeland recip compressor that might do the job.

GE lost a ton of money when they decided they could make refrig compressors cheaper than they could by them. Pretty hysterical, but oh so typical. The unit was designed, and they were being tested in a lab. The lab techs said to their boss the thing was a piece of junk. Their boss said to his boss, "We're having some issues, but my boys are on top of it." And so it went, up the chain of command, until it got to Jack, where the reports were glowing about their new design. GE called their suppliers and cancelled all outstanding orders; introduced the new compressor with a ten-year warranty. If I recollect correctly the first one failed in less than one year. GE had to go back, tail between legs, to their old vendors who all, interestingly, had to raise their prices... This was a front page story in the WSJ.

Remember, vacuum pumps don't suck, vacuum chambers (bags) blow...

[Ed Harrow]

As the probable resident expert on "nothing", may I suggest you take a look here for your vacuum pump needs: http://www.helixtechnology.com/ To bad you live so far away, I could fix you up with just about any kind of vacuum pump you'd like to try.

Venturi types likely will do a fine job, as gashmore says. Refrigerator compressors are possible, but beware both the lubrication problem and the backstreaming problem (oil migrating from compressor pump to item being evacuated. If you could get yourself an old copeland recip compressor that might do the job.

GE lost a ton of money when they decided they could make refrig compressors cheaper than they could by them. Pretty hysterical, but oh so typical. The unit was designed, and they were being tested in a lab. The lab techs said to their boss the thing was a piece of junk. Their boss said to his boss, "We're having some issues, but my boys are on top of it." And so it went, up the chain of command, until it got to Jack, where the reports were glowing about their new design. GE called their suppliers and cancelled all outstanding orders; introduced the new compressor with a ten-year warranty. If I recollect correctly the first one failed in less than one year. GE had to go back, tail between legs, to their old vendors who all, interestingly, had to raise their prices... This was a front page story in the WSJ.

Remember, vacuum pumps don't suck, vacuum chambers (bags) blow...

[Will]

Gashmore, where might I buy a venturi vacuum generator ? I have access to small construction site compressers . They have small tanks ,but I didn't understand the functional difference between the machine turning on for 10 sec. every minute or 30 sec. every 3 min.

I'll be bagging the deck of a 14 ft. sailboat .

[Will]

Gashmore, where might I buy a venturi vacuum generator ? I have access to small construction site compressers . They have small tanks ,but I didn't understand the functional difference between the machine turning on for 10 sec. every minute or 30 sec. every 3 min.

I'll be bagging the deck of a 14 ft. sailboat .

[Will]

Gashmore, where might I buy a venturi vacuum generator ? I have access to small construction site compressers . They have small tanks ,but I didn't understand the functional difference between the machine turning on for 10 sec. every minute or 30 sec. every 3 min.

I'll be bagging the deck of a 14 ft. sailboat .

[gashmore]

I have bought 3 venturi units over the years. One from West, an over priced toy, one from Thomas that I got at Grainger and a Vaccon. The Vaccon is far superior but I have not seen them sold directly in the Web. Find a distributor in your area by going to http://www.vaccon.com/WorldWideDistribution.htm
Contact them and explain what you are doing. They can give you a recommendation based on the vacuum level desired (about 12"Hg max for glass ), compressor size and FPM required. I am using the standard J series. They can also provide the check valve and switch.

The reason for the reservour is to cut down on cycling. Without it, the only buffer you have is the volume of the tubing so it does not take much of a leak to trigger the switch. I am using a 110V switch and solenoid. The switch is good for a few hundred thousand cycles but if there is a slow leak and no reservour the system will cycle very rapidly using up the cycles pretty fast.

The key to a tight bag is the vacuum port. You can use the clear suction
cups with the center drilled out to a tight fit of a short length of copper
tube that fits into the hose. You can get a more perminant port and a case of vacuum tape from
http://tmi-slc.com/ (they call them valves) or you can get smaller amounts
of tape and ports from
http://www.fibreglast.com/fiberglass_composites_catalog.htm but if you
search the web you can probably beat the prices at Fiberglast.

Keep in mind that bagging composites usually don't get over about 12" Hg but
if you are laying up a veneer part you want as high a vacuum as you can get.

[gashmore]

I have bought 3 venturi units over the years. One from West, an over priced toy, one from Thomas that I got at Grainger and a Vaccon. The Vaccon is far superior but I have not seen them sold directly in the Web. Find a distributor in your area by going to http://www.vaccon.com/WorldWideDistribution.htm
Contact them and explain what you are doing. They can give you a recommendation based on the vacuum level desired (about 12"Hg max for glass ), compressor size and FPM required. I am using the standard J series. They can also provide the check valve and switch.

The reason for the reservour is to cut down on cycling. Without it, the only buffer you have is the volume of the tubing so it does not take much of a leak to trigger the switch. I am using a 110V switch and solenoid. The switch is good for a few hundred thousand cycles but if there is a slow leak and no reservour the system will cycle very rapidly using up the cycles pretty fast.

The key to a tight bag is the vacuum port. You can use the clear suction
cups with the center drilled out to a tight fit of a short length of copper
tube that fits into the hose. You can get a more perminant port and a case of vacuum tape from
http://tmi-slc.com/ (they call them valves) or you can get smaller amounts
of tape and ports from
http://www.fibreglast.com/fiberglass_composites_catalog.htm but if you
search the web you can probably beat the prices at Fiberglast.

Keep in mind that bagging composites usually don't get over about 12" Hg but
if you are laying up a veneer part you want as high a vacuum as you can get.

[gashmore]

I have bought 3 venturi units over the years. One from West, an over priced toy, one from Thomas that I got at Grainger and a Vaccon. The Vaccon is far superior but I have not seen them sold directly in the Web. Find a distributor in your area by going to http://www.vaccon.com/WorldWideDistribution.htm
Contact them and explain what you are doing. They can give you a recommendation based on the vacuum level desired (about 12"Hg max for glass ), compressor size and FPM required. I am using the standard J series. They can also provide the check valve and switch.

The reason for the reservour is to cut down on cycling. Without it, the only buffer you have is the volume of the tubing so it does not take much of a leak to trigger the switch. I am using a 110V switch and solenoid. The switch is good for a few hundred thousand cycles but if there is a slow leak and no reservour the system will cycle very rapidly using up the cycles pretty fast.

The key to a tight bag is the vacuum port. You can use the clear suction
cups with the center drilled out to a tight fit of a short length of copper
tube that fits into the hose. You can get a more perminant port and a case of vacuum tape from
http://tmi-slc.com/ (they call them valves) or you can get smaller amounts
of tape and ports from
http://www.fibreglast.com/fiberglass_composites_catalog.htm but if you
search the web you can probably beat the prices at Fiberglast.

Keep in mind that bagging composites usually don't get over about 12" Hg but
if you are laying up a veneer part you want as high a vacuum as you can get.

[Will]

Thanks . I'm going to be laying 1/8th in. cedar veneer over worn out mahogony ply . I thought the vacumm pump equipment offered by Highland Hardware was more expensive than neccesary since I can borrow or rent a good compressor. We'll see.

[Will]

Thanks . I'm going to be laying 1/8th in. cedar veneer over worn out mahogony ply . I thought the vacumm pump equipment offered by Highland Hardware was more expensive than neccesary since I can borrow or rent a good compressor. We'll see.

[Will]

Thanks . I'm going to be laying 1/8th in. cedar veneer over worn out mahogony ply . I thought the vacumm pump equipment offered by Highland Hardware was more expensive than neccesary since I can borrow or rent a good compressor. We'll see.

[Keith Wilson]

You might want to check out Piab also; they make very nice venturi vacuum generators. I've used a lot of them over the years (not for vacuum bagging, usually for picking things up). See: http://piabna.piab.com/ The site has lots of information about applications and selection - check the air consumption figures though; some of these things use an astounding amount of compressed air.

[This message has been edited by Keith Wilson (edited 06-14-2001).]

[Keith Wilson]

You might want to check out Piab also; they make very nice venturi vacuum generators. I've used a lot of them over the years (not for vacuum bagging, usually for picking things up). See: http://piabna.piab.com/ The site has lots of information about applications and selection - check the air consumption figures though; some of these things use an astounding amount of compressed air.

[This message has been edited by Keith Wilson (edited 06-14-2001).]

[Keith Wilson]

You might want to check out Piab also; they make very nice venturi vacuum generators. I've used a lot of them over the years (not for vacuum bagging, usually for picking things up). See: http://piabna.piab.com/ The site has lots of information about applications and selection - check the air consumption figures though; some of these things use an astounding amount of compressed air.

[This message has been edited by Keith Wilson (edited 06-14-2001).]

[BradW]

I second the pneumatic venturi vacuum pump. McMaster-Carr, www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) , carries several different makes in stock. The idea of a vacuum switch is pretty good, as they can be a bit noisy in operation. They also carry various compressors and dual purpose compressor/vacuum pumps. They carry all kinds of industrial stuff, have a very handy catalog (if you can get one) in addition to the website, and generally excellent service in my experience.

[BradW]

I second the pneumatic venturi vacuum pump. McMaster-Carr, www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) , carries several different makes in stock. The idea of a vacuum switch is pretty good, as they can be a bit noisy in operation. They also carry various compressors and dual purpose compressor/vacuum pumps. They carry all kinds of industrial stuff, have a very handy catalog (if you can get one) in addition to the website, and generally excellent service in my experience.

[BradW]

I second the pneumatic venturi vacuum pump. McMaster-Carr, www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) , carries several different makes in stock. The idea of a vacuum switch is pretty good, as they can be a bit noisy in operation. They also carry various compressors and dual purpose compressor/vacuum pumps. They carry all kinds of industrial stuff, have a very handy catalog (if you can get one) in addition to the website, and generally excellent service in my experience.

[Frank Wentzel]

Gashmore -
Do you have a website for Arbee Sales? I haven't been able to find them on the web.

Thanks

/// Frank ///

[Frank Wentzel]

Gashmore -
Do you have a website for Arbee Sales? I haven't been able to find them on the web.

Thanks

/// Frank ///

[Frank Wentzel]

Gashmore -
Do you have a website for Arbee Sales? I haven't been able to find them on the web.

Thanks

/// Frank ///

[gashmore]

Arbee is still in the stone age. Family operation out of Chicago that specializes in hydraulics but they evidently have a bunch of these pumps in inventory. No web site. No 800 number. They don't even take plastic. Prefer to ship COD.

You can reach them at (312)829-1468

[gashmore]

Arbee is still in the stone age. Family operation out of Chicago that specializes in hydraulics but they evidently have a bunch of these pumps in inventory. No web site. No 800 number. They don't even take plastic. Prefer to ship COD.

You can reach them at (312)829-1468

[gashmore]

Arbee is still in the stone age. Family operation out of Chicago that specializes in hydraulics but they evidently have a bunch of these pumps in inventory. No web site. No 800 number. They don't even take plastic. Prefer to ship COD.

You can reach them at (312)829-1468