Putting A Sail on a Dory????

[Jess Potter]

DO you guys think it would be possible to put a sail on, and sail a 14' South Haven Dory??? Thanks alot, Jess

[Jess Potter]

Also, If I had to buy one kind of stationary saw or or thing what should it be? I already have a jigsaw and a sabresaw and an assortment of files and rasps and other handtools but I was contemplating on whether to buy a table saw or a bandsaw.

[Todd Bradshaw]

I'm sure it's possible, but most of those narrow rowing dories don't make very good sailboats and I'm sure you could find a design for sailing that you liked a lot better.

[JimD]

Like Todd says about the sail idea. There are probably many rowing boats out there with sail plans that would be better not sailed but people demand them. I was reading an old WB article just today about a Bolger rowing design where he caved in and drew up a sail plan against his better judgement.

As for power tools a table saw is a wonderful thing for cutting perfectly straight cuts and bevels. And a cheapo table saw does a reasonably good job for light duty home building. A good investment of $100 or so. On the other hand my inexpensive band saw is quite useless, not much more than a glorified scroll saw.

[ahp]

Jess,

I don't know what a South Haven Dory is. I know what a traditional Banks Dory is. I rowed Sam Manning's Banks Dory once with Sam and a friend along in the Five Mile River. It was very tender. Later I saw Sam sailing it with a very small rig off Rowayton, Connecticut, in a moderate breeze. It was way over on its ear and wasn't sailing worth a damn. Somehow he made it to Maine in that dory but I don't know how.

Swampscots are better, but not great. They have more initial stabilty and were developed into the Town Class. My Dad had a 21 foot Swampscot which he decked over and rigged as a gaff rigged yawl. He was young and wanted a lot of strings to pull and the price was right.

[Jess Potter]

What I'm looking for is something really easy to build, seeing this will be my first larger boat, and sailable. The South Haven Dory looks easy enough.

P.S. I would also like a lot of strings to pull. I'm only 21 :D

[wudnbotluvr]

You have touched a few nerve endings with your posts, I have a surf dory that I want to convert to a sailing dory. I may get it done. The sail well but don't carry much sail. (I am told, but if you look at Gardner's book on dories you see that they really were pretty good for sailing.)

Table saw vs. band saw. I have had a table saw that I bought years ago used for $250 and a band saw that I paid $50 for. The table saw I have used so many times that it has easily paid for itself many times over. (It's an old Rockwell with a 2+ h.p. motor.) The band saw is seldom used but when I want it, it's there. I have lusted over a big band saw to really get me into the boat building but alas I have succumbed to the temptation yet.

I would get a table saw since you can do most everything that calls for a straight line with it. Although most of think that we will do boatbuilding (and such) which would require the big bandsaw, the reality is not. The table saw will be used for builing furniture, shelves, children's toys, etc.

The only other point is to buy the best you can afford. Shxxty tools are no fun at all.

wudn

[John Bell]

Originally posted by Jess Potter:
What I'm looking for is something really easy to build, seeing this will be my first larger boat, and sailable. The South Haven Dory looks easy enough.

P.S. I would also like a lot of strings to pull. I'm only 21 :D The South Haven seems a bit narrow on the bottom to be a good sailboat. Also, a lot of strings and a narrow, skittish hull may be more exciting than you want. That is unless you want the ultimate narrow, fun boat - the International Moth!

I' suggest a Swampscott style hull if you want to sail it.

I always thought another boat I drew (see my web page link above), the 11' Blackberry dory, could handle a sail of about 50-60 sq. feet. I've tossed around the idea of sticking a Bolger/Payson 59 sq. ft. leg o'mutton rig on it, but I never took it any further than some doodles.

[Todd Bradshaw]

The South Haven is another Glouster Gull-type design where you sit slightly above a narrow rockered bottom. It's not really in the same category as larger traditional dories which were sometimes outfitted with sail rigs. Stability-wise, this would be like putting a sail rig on a hard-chined, un-decked kayak, thus my suggestion that it might not be a good idea. These little narrow dories are really fun boats to row, simple to build and often extremely good looking, but they aren't sailboats.

As for pulling strings, on small boats the key to having lots of strings is a stayed Marconi sloop rig with a bendy mast, where all those strings can actually do something. Most small boat rigs aren't that complex and only really have a use for three to five strings at most.

[Venchka]

Arch Davis's SAND DOLLAR. Easy build. Good looks. Arch has already worked out the sail arrangement. Rows nicely too. Listen to Todd & John. They know.

http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/sand1.JPG

SAND DOLLAR (http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_sanddollar.html)

Save all those strings for your second boat, Grasshopper. The one you build after you learn how to sail.

[ 03-10-2004, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Dave Hadfield]

What I've read about Banks Dories is that they didn't sail very well until they had 500 lbs of Cod in the bottom for ballast. Even then, with not much lateral resistance, they didn't go upwind very well.

They were designed to nest in stacks on the deck of the schooner, fish well, row well, and provide a good chance for survival if the schooner disappeared. Sailing peformance was nothing like the prime design consideration.

There are lots better sailboats -- thousands.

[nedL]

Not a rocket, but she did pretty well & I could stay out in a breeze that chased everyone else in. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid14/pa4107b1f75df0c85a6a05523069ea45e/fde2bd28.jpg
16' banks dory that was older than the hills when I got her. She had a centerboard (original), & natural grown one piece frames (Canadian maritime style), not the typical dory clamps at the chine like American dorys. I made the rig (scaled down off plans for a 17' Swampscott dory) The sails were cut down from the main of an Alden 'Barnacle' (50' leach). She was also very heavy! I'd go with her again anytime.
I'm afraid 14' & lightly built would be a different story though .

[ 03-10-2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[Venchka]

The South Haven Dory is a row boat. End of story.

There are too many easily built SAILBOAT designs in the market place to waste good time and money trying to cobble up a boat to do something it was never meant to do.

If you want a nice simple row boat, build the South Haven dory. If you want a sailboat, build a sailboat!

Sorry to be blunt. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Jess Potter]

Easy Buddy. All I was trying to get here was a simple yes or no question and more than obviously the answer is no. So Thank you. Jess

[Venchka]

I'm sorry. Bad day here. Keep asking. You're learning. I'll go hide.

[JimD]

Originally posted by Venchka:
I'm sorry. Bad day here. Keep asking. You're learning. I'll go hide.Venchka; start a new thread. Tell us about your day :D

[Venchka]

Originally posted by JimD:
...Venchka; start a new thread. Tell us about your day :D Here you go.

Idle (http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002268#000002)

[Ken Buck]

Just a comment to agree that the South Haven design doesn't seem well-suited to sail. Banks dories (aka "straight-sided" dories) in general aren't great in the sailing department, unless well-loaded. Dories are tender and tend to heel over in a breeze, but a lightly-loaded Banks-type dory can tip over a little too easily. Old-time fishermen would sometimes add a sail for downwind sailing, generally a smallish sail and probably with a loaded boat.

However...

Surf or Swampscott (aka "round-sided") type dories do make quite decent sailing craft. As they heel over, they become more stable. Not high performance, but safe, seaworthy, and lots of fun. If you want ultimate speed, pick something else, because the dory shape isn't designed to be the ideal sailing craft, but don't discount dories altogether if you want to be doing both rowing and sailing, especially if you're likely to encounter rough water. Just make sure to pick the right kind of dory. Lapstrake round-sided dories aren't that much more complicated to build. If you're thinking of sailing, I'd suggest going at least 15' or 16' in length.

Here are a couple of links to sailing dory pics:

Sprit rigged Surf dory (http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/wbs2003/gallery/images/16_mikedory5.jpg)

Leg-o-mutton rigged Surf Dory (http://tuckershobbies.com/lowellsboatshop/wbs2003/gallery/images/25_kendory1.jpg)

[TomHaven12]

Glen-L has plans for a nice sailing dory:
http://kerchevalave.com/alpha2/sail2001a1.jpg
.
See more at:
http://kerchevalave.com/alpha2/index.html