How do you handle your plans?!?

[Sailing-Randy]

I started this post over on Designs/Plans, but wasn't getting much response. Sooo...

I received my plans for the Roberts Spray 27. You can see the boat at
http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/HTML/descriptions/spray27_description.htm
Anybody else built one or is building one, or one like it? I am going to strip plank it - why? I'm not sure. smile.gif Anyway, I would enjoy connecting with others working on the same or similar plans.

Now for my question: how do you guys handle the papers the plans are printed on? They are huge!!!! The first sheet is 36w x 56"L. After unrolling them briefly to show people 2-3 times the edges are already starting to get banged up. I have a lot of respect for the young lady who printed these things and rolled them up for mailing! ;)

Is there a way to handle them better, especially to keep them portable? If not, are there designs/ideas for a "desk" or board or something else to permanently attach them too? How does one switch from one sheet to another without rolling up a bunch everytime? How do the architects handle them when they have to go on site in less than ideal situations? :confused:

Of course, I have to finish the trim on my first boat before getting too serious on this one, so there is a little time. :D

[ishmael]

Just keep 'em rolled till you are ready to build, and then have a place to tack the pertinent ones on the shop wall, preferable over a place you can doodle. That's what I've done anyway. The excitement will wear off a bit, until you start.

Tacking the profile drawing up now will give you something to show folks.

[cs]

First of all get copies made of the plans and put the orginals up. You should be able to go to your local copy shop and have this done.

For a plan table I have a solid core wooden door that I made my plan table out of. I hingeded the front of the table so that I could elevate it as needed. I even put a layer of green vinyl on it so it could serve as a drafting table.

It also helps if you roll the plans up backwards for storage. With that I mean when you roll the plans up the printed side will be on the outside. That way when you unroll them the roll will be toward the table and it is easier to hold it down.

Chad

[Dave Fleming]

Usual practice is to have more than one set made up. One to shipwrights, one to electricians. one to plumbers, one to outside machinists. You get the picture I'm thinkin'.

Skip down to the nearest repro shop in your area and get a few made up. You can then take the originals and put them back in the tube. Take one of the repro sets and cut it up into managable pieces to take out to the building site.
Nowadays MYLAR is the preferred medium for prints. Very durable, except near welding splatters, it melts! Not cheap but as is said, ya gets whach'a pays for. ;)

[Leon m]

Sailing Randy
I got copies made,and had my working set
laminated,its cheap,durable,and they roll up
nice.

Good Luck!...Leon M

[Sailing-Randy]

Thanks, Guys,

You amaze me! In minutes I have an answer.

However, where do I get repro's the size I need? Oviously, Bruce Roberts has a machine to handle that size, but does the local copy shop really have something that BIG? Or do I have to go someplace special - I need a lead here as I don't know what to look for.

While I wait, I will go to my local phone book. Now don't laugh, but the yellow pages there covers a good 100+ square miles and is about 3/4" thick. Do I live in the boonies! No, I live in the "good life" Nebraska! Okay, where's that lead I need when I call Omaha, or Minneapolis/St. Paul, or Sioux Falls, or ...

[ishmael]

A local architect, for a bit of a price usually.

A landscape architect might give you a better one.

Not a bad idea to make copies, but not really necessary, if you are a bit careful.

[ 12-12-2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Bill Perkins]

Rolling them up face out as Chad suggested makes a big difference .I'm guessing some are full scale patterns for the station molds ? If so you might want to print a set of those at a reduced scale as well as full size. 25% would produce the patterns at a scale of 3 in.= 1 ft. which is found on scale rulers .This would be a handier size for show and tell plus you might usefully prethink how you're going to lay parts out to minimize waste ,make the building jig , ect.

[ 12-12-2002, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[A. Mason]

Call around to local photocopy shops and blueprint shops. Ask if they do Diazo prints and large format copying. You need a machine that can print a max width of 36 inches and continuous length.

If in doubt, call around to local architects and ask them where they get their work copied. Many architects do not do their own large format copying, the equipment is a bit pricey.

Hope this helps,
Anita

[cs]

The copy shops around here can handle that size. If not look under the yellow pages for "blueprinting". Most blue print shops now days also do "black" line copies.

Chad

[mmd]

As many above have said, get copies made and roll the originals (loosely is better - I use 4" diameter mailing tubes) and store in a tube. Places to check for printing - commercial print shops that do graphics for advertizing and plotting for architects, etc.; engineering offices, architect offices, city/municipal planning offices, local dept. of highways. Expect to pay between $0.50 - $1.25 USD per square foot for whiteprint (Xerox) copies, $0.25 - $0.75 fer sq. ft. for diazo (blueprint) copies. Be warned that diazo prints fade rapidly when exposed to sunlight and heat.

[Bruce Hooke]

One possibility in Souix City is:

Kinko's - Sioux City IA
1801 Hamilton Blvd
Sioux City, IA 51103-3055
(712) 252-2700

Most Kinko's stores have large format copiers that will copy to 36" wide and whatever length you need.

In the phone book look under copying and duplicating services. I think you will find that someone not TOO far away will be able to do it because this is a service architects, builders, landscapers, etc. all have to use.

Rather than getting set down flat on glass like 'regular' copying, large format copying is done by feeding the drawings through a copier that scans it as it goes by.

Two things to check before you go:

1. Check the cost to make sure you can stomach it.

2. Do the plans have a copyright notice on them? If so, then you may need to get permission from the copyright holder before a copy shop will copy them. Note: Kinkos often has the large format copier set up as self-serve, which means they are less likely to give you trouble about the copyright notice.

I have my plans hanging on top of a sheet of MDF on the wall. That way they are handy but out of the way. However, I am building a 14' skiff so all the plans fit on one sheet...

[ion barnes]

I have a set of Roberts 36 plans and have them rolled up in a piece of 4" pvc drain pipe. I found that the ink on mine was water soluable and therefore it would be wise to have a set laminated in plastic (is this the same as printed on Mylar?). My day job is plant maintenance at a hospital and our plans were really suffering till we had them laminated. Now their indestructable.

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by ionbarnes:
...a set laminated in plastic (is this the same as printed on Mylar?).The end result is roughly the same but the process is not. Mylar is basically plastic 'paper' so having the plans printed on Mylar avoids the need to laminate the drawings. Another great thing about Mylar is that, unlike paper, it does not change size with changes in humidity, so the drawing tends to be much more accurate in terms of dimensions and angles.

[mmd]

Mylar is great, but be aware that some printing on mylar is done with water-soluble inks. Ask your printer about this before you commit to the v. high cost of mylar.

[TomRobb]

Some construction sites I've seen have them (copies of course) attached to a dowel and hanging on a rack next to the work table where you lay them out to look at them. They stay flat that way and you don't have to tack tham down to read them. Or make a cabnet of drawers big enough to lay them flat :D The originals in a sealed section of DVW pipe will keep them nice and dry.

[NormMessinger]

Hey, Randy. Wow, that is one heck of a boat you are planning. I'm in awe. I want an invitation to the launching. Omaha may be the nearest Kinko's. Come for lunch.

--Norm

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Sailing-Randy:
Now for my question: how do you guys handle the papers the plans are printed on? They are huge!!!! The first sheet is 36w x 56"L. After unrolling them briefly to show people 2-3 times the edges are already starting to get banged up....Is there a way to handle them better, especially to keep them portable? If not, are there designs/ideas for a "desk" or board or something else to permanently attach them too? How does one switch from one sheet to another without rolling up a bunch everytime? How do the architects handle them when they have to go on site in less than ideal situations?As Ishmael said, have a reprographics/blueprint shop pull a copy for you.

You can have the sheets drymounted on foamcore, too. Any framing shop (or the reprographics place) ought to be able to do that.

To waterproof it, with or without it drymounted on foamcore, you can get a product like AquaSeal's Map-Seal -- http://www.aquaseal.com/map-seal.html Map-Seal also toughens the paper to withstand repeated folding without getting destroyed. Another similar product is Nik-Wax Map-Proof http://www.nikwax-usa.com/

[ 12-12-2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

I wouldn't do this to original plans, but it might be handy with copies.

What I used to do with frequently-used maps and charts (back when I had empty wallspace in my basement) was to staple old broomsticks across the top and bottom.

The broomstick across the top I sawed off and positioned so that it hung over about two inches on each end. I had a couple of nails about seven feet off the floor that these broomstick-ends would sit on when I was using the chart, and the weight of the broomstick on the bottom would keep the whole thing hanging nicely.

Easy to roll up and easy to use.

I don't know why this little system might not work for plans, too.

Alan

[Figment]

why on earth do you folks bother with diazo or mylar or sepia? regular prints to bond paper are a fraction of the cost! around here you can get 6 sets on bond for the cost of a mylar set (that's IF you can find someone who still has a machine set up for mylar). how many sets do you think you'll ruin?

Most of my contractors have begun ordering their construction sets on some newfangled (the trade name escapes me) paper that feels rather like Tyvek. doesn't rip easily, doesn't absorb grime, pencil marks erase cleanly, but ink stays put. cheaper than mylar, and won't cut your finger to the bone. Any repro shop that does regular construction business should have it on hand.

if you can't get the tyvek paper, just have prints made to heavy bond and "home-laminate" the edges with clear packing tape.

[Sailing-Randy]

Okay, guys, I hear you loud and clear. I will have copies made - Kinko's you say, in Omaha I hear, now that is a 3 hour drive, but for protecting my boat plans, hmm, lunch with Norm is probably the biggest attraction there. Thanks, Norm!

In reality, I plan to go back toward the home turf area, [MPLS/STP] for Christmas, though not for much time. So I hope I can find something nearer - like Sioux City. It’s only 1.25 hours away.

I sure like the idea of hanging the plans on "broom sticks." However, I don't think I have that many old brooms in the house, but I can keep my eyes out. I can see the headlines now..."Old Brooms Stolen All Over Wausa NE" with subtitle “No explanation available, bur Rev Randy has been excitedly showing everybody his new boat plans…” tongue.gif

I haven't taken the plans all the way out yet so I don’t know how many sheets there really are. I am guessing at least 10 or more + full size pattern sheets. ;)

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again!

[mark ward]

I agree with copies, but the absolute safest way is to have your local repro shop, perhaps kinkos can too, scan them and burn them to CD at 300 DPI resolution. In fact, when I bought my plans from Alden for my triangle, I had the option to receive the plans burnt onto a CD or Hard copies. As you might expect, I opted for the CD and I can print full size prints any time I need, as well as enlarged shots when I'm examing details.

[ 12-12-2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: mark ward ]

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by Sailing-Randy:
I haven't taken the plans all the way out yet so I don’t know how many sheets there really are. I am guessing at least 10 or more + full size pattern sheets. ;)

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again!YOU FLAMIN WELL WHAT????????? Havent taken them all the way out yet?

WASSAMADDERYOUEH?????????? WASSAMADDERMATE??????? :eek:

Cripes! Take em out stick a tab of sticky tape on each corner and then some blue tack on that and whack em on the flamin walls Randy!!!....

Strewth mate! Flamin well take down those piccies of great aunt fanny and great granpaw billybob and put the plans up!!... PERVE LONG AND HARD... member to stretigically {sp?} place buckets to catch any wayward drool... but mate!!! GETINTERITFELLA!!! :mad: tongue.gif

I dont believe this!!! :rolleyes:

Plans lob up around here theyre out within seconds everything on the table is swiped onto the deck and they gets landed gawked at peerved over and stoked ever so gently as the mighty possumpoop or one of the hoons quickly rushes to find a spittoon of some sort or other to catch the long threads oozin outta my gaping mouth... then I take the next few weeks just redrawing from the offsets... then drool all over again... HAVENT HAD THEM ALL THE WAY FLAMIN OUT???? RANDY MATE!!! COMEON!!!! sheeesh! :rolleyes:

Take it easy
Shane

[Sailing-Randy]

Guilty as charged, Wild Dingo! I feel as guilty as you make me feel. :(

However, I will now let me defense attorney take the stand...

Ladies, Gentlemen and wild dogs of the jury, I would like give you a brief recap of my defendant’s last few days.

* A funeral the local paper called the most moving community event in years (or some such gibberish)
* A Church Annual Meeting
* The annual ending Church board meeting and Christmas party
* A tragic death in the church
* Funeral for tragic event – 358 people come
* Senior High Christmas concert – I stayed home with puking child
I am home again today with puking child
* And, oh yes, Sundays still come with relentless regularity

I rest my case... :D

In all reality, it's just a matter of priorities, family life and peace in the home.

[NormMessinger]

My dad would be shocked at your schedule, Randy. One thing, among many, he would not tollerate was working on Sunday. Hmmm? I wonder what he thought our pastor was doing.

All the same, you are going to appreciate the boat and retirement all the more.

--Norm

[PugetSound]

Randy, keep in mind that if those plans are blue-line plans (most likely) then making a couple of working copies (one half-size and one full size) might be a good idea simply because blue-line prints (like blue-prints before them) are light sensitive and will fade if you leave them out where the sunlight can get at them. Also, do keep in mind that any copies you make are only working copies and should not be sold afterward (copyrights and all that).

As for handling them, making yourself a decent size drawing table out of a door is your best bet as you'll want to spread the plans out. Also, get some leather bean bags or some such weights to hold the sheets down (tape works but can be a pain when you have to flip back and forth). There is nothing sacred about the plans themselves so don't be afraid to mark them up (with pencil).

(my two cents worth......) ;)

[Wild Dingo]

aaahhh geez mate... okay in light of evidence presented...

I was going to say all is forgiven... ah taheckwifit! ALLS FORGIVEN MATE!

Just you gotta get em out!!! they will think you dont wub em... get em out stroke em fondle the lines with your finger... getinneritmate!! :D

Im sure the chur... never mind :rolleyes: ...when yer get a chance mat HAVE A FLAMIN GAWKING STICKY BEAK!!! ;)

Take it easy
Shane

[Sailing-Randy]

You are right, Puget Sound, the plans are not sacred. I was just getting bummed because they were showing wear so soon. I figured there had to be a trick or something I was ignorant of. Making copies seems like such an easy solution. BTW, they are black line copies so that should be no problem. ;)

As for the Full Size patterns, I am beginning to think twice about copying them. 1. for the cost, 2. I will only use them once, and 3. Are the repros guaranteed to be exactly the same? Probably not much difference, but I was thinking...

Shane,
I got them out. They know I love them and, now, I have to admit, I respect them. I actually had a twinge of fear as I looked at 25 sheets of plans and patterns + a folio book full of illustrations. :eek:

The smallest ones are 24x36, which are 3 sheets from the Centennial Spray 34 to show me how to plank the Spray 27. The rest are all 30" wide and anywhere from 43 to 92" long. If I only copy the actual Spray 27 plans there will only be 13 sheets, the longest being 2 at 56" and the rest 43". I think it's still going to be shock at the bill at Kinko's - they quoted me $2.50 US for a 24x36 poster. Gulp!

However, things are moving in the right direction. It will be along trip and I am excited to next step! smile.gif

[NormMessinger]

"Are the repros guaranteed to be exactly the same? Probably not much difference, but I was thinking..."

Thinking, eh? That can get us amateurs in trouble. Common sense in the minds if the ignorant is a dangerous thing.

Ah, but I digress....

Some will say the copies will not be accurate but how accruate do you expect to cut your patterns? Within a few ten thousanths? A few thousanths? Nay, within 1/32" if you are very good. A 1/16" if you are good and an eighth if you are good enough. Many tables of offsets are only to the eighth. Besides in our climate there is not great changes in humidity as a rule.

How many of the sheets will you use much. I got five for Prairie Islander but only one had to live in the shop.

Kinkos copies seemed to be exact and are on bond paper so it does not age badly in the shop enviornment. The black on white plans Iain sent yellow rapidly even when exposed to living room light.

Go for it Randy.

--Norm

[ 12-17-2002, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[Sailing-Randy]

Okay, fellas,

This is what I ended up doing as I haven't visited Kinko's yet.

I bought a 32" length of 4" pvc and caped the ends with wood plugs. However, when it came to handling the plans, I laid them all out on a table, brought two edges all together and clamped the end to be rolled between two fender washers in two places. Now I can unroll and roll at will without banging the edges - they all stay in line! I may replace the fender washers with two strips of wooden batting to relieve the stress around the washers.

Thanks for the help!

[Ross Faneuf]

OK: dissenting voice here. I'm still working with the original plans for Ceol Mor, now about 25 years old.

I unrolled them and pressed them under a sheet of plywood to get them flat. Then I cut a piece of decent ply to the same size; laid the plans on top (rather like a clipboard); put a protective sheet of mylar over it; and clipped it all together with 3 jumbo document clips (the black steel clips with 2 folding wire handles - Staples or any office supply place).

Everything is flat, easy to see, and well-behaved. It can store it flat or standing up. I can put any sheet (of 12) on top I like by undoing the clips and shuffling the order. I've added other sheets of my own over the years as I've redisigned things or elaborated the original design. About all that's happened in all those years is the sheets have yellowed.