Looking for best book on modern strip planking

[bloggs68]

Hi all,

Looking for a good book on modern strip planking methods. Any suggestions?

TIA

Andrew

[mmd]

Ian Nicolson's "Cold-Moulded and Strip-Planked Wood Boatbuilding" is quite good, and Gougeon's "Boat Construction" seems to be the defacto standard text.

[JimConlin]

For small boats, the methods of the strip canoe builders work well. See Ted Moores 'Canoecraft'.

[RonW]

Also Selway Fisher out of england has a book on strip planking.

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Stripplank.htm

And there is my favorite, for free.

http://www.sredmond.com/strip_plank.htm

[Venchka]

Michael,

Is the Nicholson book biased one way or the other? I recall somebody on the forum saying it was weighted toward one of the methods in the title, but I can't remember which way. I would like more information on strip planking than what is mentioned in Gardner and Steward.

I was all set to buy the Gougeon's book last srpring. A new edition was slated to be out about now. Is the latest edition on the market?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 11-28-2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Eric Villarreal]

Wayne, I spoke with the Gougeon Brothers tech support, last week, on the strip planking subject and the content hasn't changed since the 2nd edition. I was considering buying the latest revision just to learn more on strip planking but I think I will hold off since it hasn't been changed (I bought the second edition for $14). You may be better off getting a used copy if you just want strip planking information.

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

Wayne

In response to your question above, the Nicholson book is biased towards cold-moulded, but I think it's still pretty good on principles of strip planking.

Rgds

Andrew

[RonW]

Strip planking. What is it? How many variations are there?
Wayne brings up a good question, on which variation does the book lean to?

I know of 4 entirely different methods of building with strips that all are called strip planking.But yet they are so far apart, they should not be called by the same name.

You have the method used on canoes, then stepping up in size one example would be a 20 foot ocean pointer, a larger and edge nailed variation using epoxy between the joints as a sealant.And the 3rd. method as by gougeon is where the strips serve as a core for laminates of cloth and or veneers or both. All of these 3 methods use epoxy and cloth. Maybe these 3 methods ought to be called MODERN STRIP PLANKING, and then somehow dividing these 3 into seperate headings.

The 4th. method generally is referred to as traditional, with it's roots reaching back to approx. 1895.Where square stock is edge nailed.No epoxy inside or out, only paint. There where some good threads on this method back around 2000. Hope they have not fallen off. But among those then that praised it,one guy had a 45 footer out of 1& 1/2in square strips, the other guy had a 50 footer out of 1& 9/16 square stock,both boats where built in the late 50's and early 60's as I recall, and both where in excellent condition as certified by marine surveys.You can build as small as a 18 footer out of 3/4 inch stock.

The traditional method is a method that I think is being far overlooked.The article I posted above by Steve Redmond may be some of the best information available on strip planking.

[Venchka]

Thanks, everyone. The plans I have fall into the 3rd category-strips + veneer over the strips. I have several books with both methods mentioned. A used copy of the Gugeons' book might be in order.

Then there is the debate over why use strips at all. We'll leave that to another thread. :D

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[Murray Campbell]

Ron, thanks for mentioning the trad strip building technique...i had no idea that such a thing existed.

I've been daydreaming a bit about the D18 Myst but i can't get over my aversion to working with epoxy (and it seems like everyone designs for epoxy now) I'll see if i can find that thread in the archives.

[JimConlin]

One of he plusses of strip planking of any type is that with just station molds, the strips do a decent job of taking a fair shape. All-veneer cold-molded methods require a more elaborate setup.

[Gary Dierking]

I think one of the prime advantages of strip planking is the smooth stringerless interior. It not only saves a lot of labor when fitting the interior but also adds to the longevity of the structure by eliminating places for water and dirt to collect.

[jaapk.]

I would definitely recommend Paul Fishers stripplanking manual. A bonus are his calculations, about the amount of epoxy and types of glass cloth needed with stripplanking.

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

Originally posted by Murray Campbell:
...i can't get over my aversion to working with epoxy (and it seems like everyone designs for epoxy now)...My 42 foot "Rocquette" was built in 1964 with two very thin (total less than 1 inch) layers of carvel planking resourcinol glued and mechanically screwed. Inner skin spruce, outer mahogany. She is effectively cold-moulded (or double-strip-planked, depending on your viewpoint!) but with both layers of planking spiled fore-and-aft planking in the traditional manner. Problem with her is the outer seams (originally glued) have, over 40 years, split and cracked through the inner planking. The restoration will include adding 2 diagonal layers of veneer (and yes, this has been discussed with Peter Nicholson of C&N who designed and built her!).

Point being - how about using resourcinol - you can build an "epoxy" design without using epoxy. http://www.yacht.ro/raceboat/2_on_the_road_again.gif

[ 11-29-2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Andrew S/Y Rocquette ]

[maa. melee]

John Gardner briefly talks about bead and cove traditional strip planking for his yankee skiff. The only thing i've stripped planked was a deck and it worked amazingly well. No glue, no epoxy, no steaming, little fairing, and NO LEAKS. Very very strong too with minimal beams. Looks amazing with a coat of varnish. I hope to build a boat in the future using traditional strip planking. Something along the lines of a 30 foot cruiser. We'll see though! For cheap, easy-build, leakproof boat construction go with trad. strip planking. Did I mention no beveling or spiling??? :D :D

[ 11-29-2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: maa. melee ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by maa. melee:
...For cheap, easy-build, leakproof boat construction go with trad. strip planking. Did I mention no beveling or spiling??? :D :D Not so fast there. If a body already has a band or table saw up to the task and if a body has access to quality western red cedar or equal stock and if that same body has the inclination to rip up a bunch of strips and edge nail them all together...well, maybe you're right.

As Norm might say, "It depends and Bob's your uncle."

Wayne
In the Samp. :D

[RodB]

I just looked over Ian Nichelson's book and he has a complete chapter devoted to strip-planking...which offers quite a bit of information, by far the best I've seen. I need to get the Selway-Fisher book if it offers good details on the process. I certainly would be interested in any other good sources of detailed information on this process.

I have tried to compile everything I could find on strip-planking plus have collected sequential photos of the process. Most of the books I acquired on modern boatbuilding with epoxy were mainly on cold molded construction and barely mentioned strip-planking. I have verbally run through the process with a couple of experts and I'm quite comfortable with taking on this type of job.

I also bought Macnaughton's Sheathed-strip Scantling Rules and his essay "The Sheathed Strip Alternative" which is pretty much the standard for this method.

The following website shows a Smalders design (32' Kahuna) being strip-planked (step by step) plus an additional two layers of veneer being cold molded on the exterior with fiberglass sheathing on the outside. NOTE: According to Macnaughton, a properly sheathed-stripped hull will be plenty strong without adding additional layers of veneer on the exterior...just sheath her properly with fiberglass and epoxy.
Strip-planked boat construction (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290272927) Note: This builder used the plastic staples to edge nail the strips which is a great idea and he has built a really strong hull.

The following photos are of a cutter in the UK that is strip-planked then also layers of veneer are applied...A Burnett Design.... Lots of folks seem to like the veneer layers atop the strip-planking for a really tough hull, but they do build the hull several times...ie., overbuild somewhat according to the scantling rules.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid148/p0214ee489990deda718c2adf8343137a/f6156458.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid148/p197238c66782fce25a3c5caf33376536/f6156455.jpg

RB

[ 11-29-2004, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[Venchka]

...and then there is the fairing. Turning that umpteen sided approximation of a curve into a real, fair curve.

I didn't know that Janetess had veener AND fiberglass cloth over the strips. That does seem like overkill. But, she is an ocean boat. The 'glass will keep the worms out!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[RonW]

Here is a picture of one that is planked with square stock. If you look close at about the middle of the transom on the left side, you can see that the stock is square. It should take very little sanding to make a reasonably fair boat, unless of course you want it to look slick and shiny like a glass boat.

This boat was obviously planked from the sheer line up with square stock. This leaves the football shape to fill in over the keel. When the stock is half again as wide as it is thick,as a lot of the modern methods are, then you have a area at the chime where you have to square things up and start the planking over. I think this is a better method.Square stock can bend into a compound curve.

Again the best info I have seen on traditional strip planking is in Steve Redmonds article, link above.

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/special/special-images/dsn-harc.jpg

[ 11-30-2004, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: RonW ]

[RodB]

In addition to Macnaughton's "Scantling Rules for Sheathed-strip Construction" you should definitely get his essay called "The Sheathed Strip Alternative". I reread this last night and it really covers alot of ground with lots of details on the process, plus the pros and cons. It also covers the early methods of construction related to this and describes the state of the art using this method.

I think this essay would be invaluable to anyone considering this method of construction. I think he has updated it by now with some illustrations and photos of some of the process. I plan to contact Macnaughton and Associaties to get any updates. I think he charges less than $10 for it and it is well worth that. I would post some of it for you but he does charge for the 6 page article.

RB

[ 12-01-2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[cbob]

Rod and Ron, Noting the UK cutter has no football and Ron's picture, assumeing he means squaring up at the "chime" refers to accuratly fitting the interface between the planking strips from the sheer down (hull inverted) to the planking strips in the football. In the photo it would appear to be impossible to either edge nail the football strips to the keel, or to the already installed planking strips from the "chime" down. I have always assumed that the football planks (coved and beaded) on my boat were edge nailed and glued up (hull rightside up) to then form the football, and then with some very deft and clever boatright magic measuring, caused the strips above the football to come out right at the sheer. I can't imagine another way of doing it. Also pilot hole driling, and nailing would have been done downhand.
One of the disadvantages of strip planking is the repair of a, (assuming stove in or such) area when replacing strips, how do you nail in the last closing strips, or open up from the sheer down?
For scantling information this is a 36'x 9'6" sloop, Philipine mahogany planking, 1.5 x 1", finished, sanded and beaded and coved to a net of about 1.3" x 7/8", on steam bent white oak frames, 12" centers, 1 3/8 square, no stringers. Evidure(sp) ring shank nailed, 3/16 x 4" every plank on 6 inch spacing, thus these nails form a matrix of 3/16" nails every 2", each being through three planks, Resorcinol glue used between planks, and the dribbles sanded off prior to framing. There still is no working whatsoever or rot after 45 years and there is no type of sheathing, cold moulding strips or whathaveyou. Frames breaking in tension is not uncommon however, and haulouts should be short, as the opposite of tension frame fracturing, excessive drying out might open some glued seams. cbob

[RonW]

Good info cbob.- Your boat is traditionally strip planked with no veneers or glass and is still solid and sound with no sign of rot after 45 years. Good solid info, glad you joined in. Thanks.

[RodB]

Another anecdotal extremely positive experience with Resorcinal.... That stuff really lasts!... Two of the best of boatbuilding materials... Resourcinal and P/ Mahagany.... No sheathing...45 years... its amazing.

Following Macnaughton's rule today you could have minimum bulkheads, no frames, and strip-plank her and glass her both inside and out... you would have a pretty much empty hull with total freedom to layout the interior any way you wanted. She would be light and strong with the maintenance of a fiberglass boat...

BUT ITS HARD TO SAY ANYTHING IN PROMOTING SUCH A BUILDING METHOD WHEN CONSIDERING WHAT YOUR BOAT HAS WITHSTOOD!

When I build my mast in the future, I am definitely going to consider Resourcinal...

RB

[ 12-04-2004, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: RodB ]

[bheys]

My apologies for being a bit off topic. However, we've been in the strip cutting mode this morning and thought I'd share a couple of pictures. Each time I've done this I always think that I'm cutting way too many strips. Later in the project I find myself having to re-erect the infeed and outfeed tables to cut more. Hopefully this time there will be enough strips to carry us through. It is a challenge in our small shop to deal with the 20' boards.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid149/pef48502efff8d8449d937554c8ba4f7a/f605e10e.jpg

We try to keep the supervisor happy. I think she feel asleep despite the noise.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid149/pa67d601858d5b7f81c3bfba01ed3d27b/f605e0ba.jpg

[Venchka]

bheys,

Show off! :cool:

What size strips? Red cedar? You should not complain about having to cut 20' boards. :D Many of us have never seen 20' boards of clear stock. I don't see any knots. Is that real lumber? :eek: :cool: :confused:

Whatcha buildin? Another skinny, decked over double-ender, a.k.a. kayak?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 12-04-2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[slacker]

Right down the road from me is an outfit that stocks clear 20'+ WRC. Sweet huh??? I thought so until I was quoted $5 + change per lin ft. for 20'x 1" x 6".

At 10 bucks per bd ft I think I'll have to keep shopping.That said, I've been sifting through the homeDepot 2x (max 16') WRC stacks from time to time and walking out with a keeper or two at a much more reasonable price. I really should try to find a mom and pop mill.

BTW: I really like Ian Nicolson's Coldmolding/stripping book although much more emphasis is given to CM.

Darren

[JimConlin]

At those prices, fellas, Core-Cell foam begins to make sense on a cost basis for some boats. Use the same methods.
Yes, i know the heavens may part at any moment and...

[Venchka]

This thread prompted me to pull Steward's Boatbuilding Manual, 4th Edition, off the shelf.

There are some interesting ideas in the brief section on strip planking. A way to eliminate the "football" at the keel. Another thought deals with varying the width of the garboard and sheer strake to compensate for changes in girth.

Might be worth buying for those ideas and a wealth of other good boatbuilding information.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[bheys]

Wayne - Your certainly correct about not having to do the "football" in stripping the bottom of the hull. I suppose the arguement would be a continuous symmetry across the hull (no football) vs simpicity and ease of construction (football). I like the no football method. Afterall the wood is cedar and is extremely easy to work. If you make a mistake on a strip, you can use it as a shorter strip as you move toward the center. Surely the cost of clear WRC is high. And I like to use nice boards for the long strips near the sheer. However, with careful color matching butt joints are acceptable. Cheaper grades and shorter stock can work well. The bottom line is that a kayak doesn't use very much wood anyway. The strips we cut today are going into a design called the "King" by Redfish Kayaks.

[brian.cunningham]

:cool: thread.
I've seen a lot of strip planking use on the www.kayakforum.com (http://www.kayakforum.com)

[Venchka]

bheys,

I could never describe what Steward put forth in a few paragraphs and illustrations, but the gist of it is starting the strips at the keel and working out to near the turn of the bilge. At that point, the strips are cut in an arc to fit the strips coming from the sheer.

Hey, boats deserve the best wood right? You would just blow any savings on non-critical items like electricity, food, baby's new shoes.

Keep the pictures of the new kayak coming!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[alteran]

bheys, have you ever set up your saw as a gang saw to rip 2 strips in one pass? If so any tips?I'll be sawing strips again in a few weeks and I was thinking about trying it but I'de prefer not to waste wood experimenting.

Al.

[bheys]

Al - I've never tried mounting more than 1 blade to the tablesaw (except for dado work). Speeding up the process would indeed be nice. Ripping the strips is pretty mindless. I use a blade stabilizer on the outboard side of the blade and I wonder if you could still do that and maintain the proper strip thickness with 2 blades. I have had good luck in the past with using cheaper hollow-ground blades (not carbide-tipped). There weren't any locally this past week so I used a standard thin kerf combo blade.
What is necessary for me is to have long infeed and outfeed tables plus roller stands; a solid and easily adjustable featherboard that doesn't rely on the miter slot; some means of jointing an edge of long boards. Despite all that, I still find myself running the strips through the planer and removing the last/1/32 - 1/16". Dust collection is ovbiously a pretty big deal as well. I know it sounds insignificant, but I really like to use those work gloves with the rubberized coating. They're real grippy and not having to be concerned about those pesky WRC slivers in a plus. A motorized feeder would really be delux.

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

there are basically 4 methods of strip planking:

1) start at the sheer and run out at the keel ("football" effect)

2) start at the keel and run out at the sheer

3) start around the waterline (depending on hull curvature) and run out both ways)

4) start at the sheer, stop around the waterline, then start again at the keel and you end up with a "reverse football" on the waterline.

Choice depends on hull curvature, strip thickness and preference!

[RonW]

In method #1.above that Andrew exsplains,(football shape) no one ever mentions that a big benefit of this, is that the planking forms a arch, not only at the bottom but also along the sheer. Double arches back to back, much stronger then straight planking, which dramatically increases the hull strength. And you have double arches from one side to the other side meeting over the keel.
It is only the last 3 strips over the keel that can't be edge nailed, but then the exterior keel fits over them, locking everything down and together.
But this can only be achieved by using square strips. Modern variations, such as in the ocaen pointer for one example, use strips 3/4 thick by 1 & 3/8 wide, which will not bend in a compound curve, but results in method #4 where you have to square the planking up, and start again.Another advantage of square strips is that they are edged nailed together through or almost through 3 planks, where the wide variation is only edged nailed plank to plank.
Personally I think that traditional strip planking in 20 foot and larger boats is being very much overlooked. And there is plenty of examples of traditional strip planked boats with no veneering and or fiberglass cloth. Yet these boats are solid and dry 30, 40 and 50 years later.
Of course you have to size the strips accordingly.

[JimConlin]

Another possibility, which i'll try one day, is to taper the strips in proportion to the girth of the boat. It could save a lot of fussy 'football' fitting. I'm thinking that jointing the taper in the planks before ripping into strips is a good way to do this. If you don't get the taper right, the wobbles could look funny.

[htom]

Another way is to start at the sheer and work towards the keel (say until the waterline), then from the keel to the strips already laid, and then fill in the two football shapes.

[TimothyB]

Earlier in the thread, someone asked "how do you repair a strip plank hull? How do you nail in the last piece?"

According to several references, you cut out the damaged area, bevel the edges, and then fit the new wood. You then put the new, glue coated wood in place with nails driven in using a flat bar inserted into the notch. The last plank is toe nailed in from both sides and well glued.

If you really didn't want to glue, you could use small copper rivets to hold the new planks to the old ones, with nibbed scarfs, and trust the nails. I'd toe nail the last plank in from top and bottom as well and I'd make very sure my joinery was excellent.

Not really a complicated process, as far as I can tell. If you got too many repairs in one section, you could just remove the whole section and replace the wood.

[JimD]

Has it been mentioned that resourcinal could be quite tricky for the amateur due to its lack of gap filling properties? Thickened epoxy ought to be much more user friendly for those of us who's joined surfaces are not always perfectly flush. I've heard it can also be quite tempermental regarding temp, humidity, and pressure.

[Puka]

TimothyB
Any chance of an url for repairing strip planking?
Also,with glue lines that have opened up owing to shrinkage drying,can you suggest a way of removing delaminated glue without cutting the edge nailing? The hull is 20x30mm strip,with laminated ribs at 300 centres.
I would prefer to double diagonal wood sheath, but time, budget & weight consraints suggest 2 x 1100 gm triaxial/epoxy sheathing. With this consideration,and refastening to the ribs in the troubled areas,perhaps cutting the edge nailing would not be significant? Lifes a risk! :confused:

[TimothyB]

Wooden Boat Renovation (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=300-298&variation=&aitem=1&mitem=1) by Jim Trefethan has info in it about repairing strippers. And lots of other good info about getting your boat on the water quickly, soundly, and without breaking the bank account.

I also got some info from 'The Boatowners Companion' which has gone out of print.

If you are in need of repairing frames, stem, keel or deadwood, this (http://www.woodenboatstore.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=325-105&variation=&aitem=12&mitem=13) book is also handy to have.

As far as repairing cracks and delamination in a stripper goes, without cutting the nails or cold molding, I would either:

(a) Let her dry out a LOT (use heat blowers, inside and out), trowel a flexible sealant that is epoxy compatible over all the cracks, fair her and then cover her over with epoxy/glass or epoxy/Xynole, and epoxy coat her inside too. Do NOT put -thickened- epoxy between the strips. Bad Mojo as if the wood swells at all, epoxy is very stiff and you might have big trouble with fasteners popping. Might.. but I don't like the odds. ;)

(b) Rout out the cracks with a thin bit, or even just a thin saw, down to the point where the nails are then glue in wedges with epoxy or your choice of waterproof glues. Note, here epoxy is being used as a glue, not a filler! Also I would inspect the hull from the inside and wedge the same way. Sand, fair and paint.

With method (a) It's a total thing, more expensive in terms of materials, but you'll be pretty much guaranteed not to have troubles with cracks. With method (b) it is cheaper, materials wise but will take more time and unless you take care of the hull you will have new cracks opening up in her down the line. In fact, it may be unavoidable depending on how she was built to begin with. However you will still have essentially a Traditionally built stripper.

It's up to you. I would buy Jim Trefethan's book before I undertook any such project.

[ 01-14-2005, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: TimothyB ]

[Puka]

Thanks! I have ordered Jim's book.