Yet another Titebond post

[LazyJack]

I know, I know, alaphatics are bad, can't reglue, nothing sticks to it...I've read several posts...don't worry, I'm not planning to glue up deadwood with it...I'm just wondering:

With the origional Titebond you spit on it and it turns to cheese. The Titebond II is advertised as highly water resistant (in accordance to whatever that ANSI spec is...who knows what that means) and great for outdoor application. Then there is this tan jelly-like Titebond III which is labeled as WATERPROOF (as long as it is not used below the waterline) and not to be used as a structural adhesive (whatever that means)

So the question is: is the titebond III more water resistant than the Titebond II? Is it as strong structurally as Titebond II? Has anyone used this new stuff for applications in damp or wet environments? Does it form and maintain a rigid bond? Will titebond II last if used to laminate a structure (spruce) that will be covered in several coats of paint and varnish and left outdoors (off the ground)and get splashed with water occasionally?

[ssor]

When I was rebuilding Bietzpadlin I glued scraps of cypress together with Titebond 2, And after they had cured, threw them out in the yard where I would find them occassionally. The pieces were usually about 3/4 inches wide and I would glue them either at right angles on the ends or just overlap the ends an inch or two. I found these pieses for several years after I had finished work on Bietzpadlin and never found any that had come apart. We get about 40 inches on rain each year in Maryland. I have some titebond 3 and haven't seen any real improvement over titebond 2.

[LazyJack]

How many coats of paint were on your test pieces? Was it Kirby paint or linear polyurethane? Certainly not latex! :D Just kidding...Actually that is a very helpful test especially because this 'structure' won't see that kind of abuse. And I sure appreciate the ease of use and clean-up

[kc8pql]

I've used Titebond II since it was introduced for jobs exposed to the weather. Exterior doors, fancy garden furniture and gates, windows, screens and storms... all sorts of things. In probably 20 years and hundreds of projects I've never had a callback for a glue failure.

[ssor]

Lazyjack, No paint, no clamps, just spread the glue, out the pieces together, lay the piece down and throw it outside the next time I saw it. :D

[Jon Curtis]

My boat carpenter used to do the same test with epoxy. The problem with 2 pieces of wood glued together and thrown outside is the pieces are only connected to themselves, ie: there is little stress on the joint. Just food for thought smile.gif

[ssor]

I have considered a test for glue, where you glue together, at right angles, strips of wood 3/4x1/4x6, using a variety of adhesives. When they are cured, drill holes in the outer ends and string them together in a chain of "Vees". Then hang them up outside with a weight on the lower end. It would be easy to calculate the stress on the joint and would yield a qualitative result.

[Mrleft8]

When I was making spars for my Cat's paw dinghy last year, I very carefully glued up a beautifully bookmatched Spruce blank with Resourcinol. I then very carefully cut it 6" too short. A few days later I very carefully glued up a beautiful bookmatched Spruce blank with Tite-bond2. This one I cut properly. I finished it with 3 coats of Benjamin Moore Spar varnish (Val-Spar I think it's called).It was out in the rain and spray all year last year, and on inspection in November, it had not a single sign of failure. It rained about 5 days a week last summer and fall.

[ssor]

Left8, Donchajust hate yourself when you do that? The only people that don't make mistakes are the ones that never do anything. :D

[George Roberts]

LazyJack ---

As I understand the directions for the Titebond glues, they are not suitable for structural applications.

That does not mean you should not use them, but rather that the manufacturer has concerns about how you might use them.

[Billy Bones]

Well, I go through a couple of gallons of both epoxy and TB2 each year, and I've had more failures of epoxy (exactly 1, not the glues fault either) than of TB2 (0). If the Olde Masters had had it Waye Backe Whenn you can bet they'd have used it. Dunno nuttn bout TB3.

[landlocked sailor]

The nicest thing about T3 is its long open time; no more rushing and sweating during complicated glue-ups. I like the tan color too; the glueline is less noticable. There was a nice review of T3 in the last FWW issue. Rick

[Con LanAdo]

any bowyers use these on their bows with as much success as stated here?

[LazyJack]

Thanks for all the helpful insights. It sounds as if Titebond II is just fine so long as you don't try to take it to sea. Here is a small mock-up segment of my proposed sculpture.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p8fc33a5b860b8d8b6e9b285ad0f05357/f4e3c154.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p36667442436211a3af211e45e977a673/f4e3c150.jpg

The curved pieces are laminated using Titebond II and the thin slat-like pieces running perpendicular are actually a double layer with the seam lines offset and West Epoxy in between. I would have used the epoxy for the curvey pieces but It would have been an unspeakable mess! The whole shootin, match is re-inforced with brass screws so they won't rust and the final sculpure will have many coats of varnish over it. It should hold up outdoors just fine... ;)

[ssor]

Quote:[The whole shootin, match is re-inforced with brass screws so they won't rust and the final sculpure will have many coats of varnish over it]

I do hope you meant bronze screws. You do nice work and silicon bronze is far superior to brass in every regard.

[LazyJack]

Hmmmm .... thats food for serious thought...I never considered it because such 'sculptures' in the past had historically been built using brass and copper...but bronze is stronger, more corrosion resistant and would be far easier to work with...I just might do that!

Thanks smile.gif

[LazyJack]

Nope, no such luck...its gotta be brass, Jamestown does not carry bronze #3 nor do they have the lengths I need in #4 bronze...bummer!
Great thought though, thanks again.

[Keith Wilson]

Brass turns to crap when exposed to salt water. Otherwise it doesn't corrode any worse than bronze. It's not as strong, of course, but it's a lot cheaper; depends on the application.

[Paul Maselli]

LazyJack (BTW that was the name of my Dad's First Catboat - 18Ft Crosby circa 1940, Brings back a lot of memories) Call Ron at CC Fasteners (1-608-876-6126). He carries almost every size conceivable on Bronze, SS, and Monel. The Website lists #4's. If they're available he can get them for you.

Themobileboatwright

[kc8pql]

Originally posted by LazyJack:
It sounds as if Titebond II is just fine so long as you don't try to take it to sea. ;) So is brass. No reason to use bronze screws on an outdoor sclupture.

[ 03-09-2005, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: kc8pql ]