NZ classic racing in feb. pro photographer.

[John B]

Chris Camerons site. I had forgotten about it. we were at the Classic yacht assn prizegiving last night and his photos reminded me. Well worth a look if you like seeing old boats get thrashed around a racetrack.
http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/albums/races/lindauerclassic120205/c15003.jpg

web page (http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/thumbnails.php?album=search&type=full&search=Lindauer+Classic+Yacht+Regatta+11%2F2 %2F2005)
and
web page (http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/thumbnails.php?album=search&type=full&search=Race+Two+of+the+Lindauer+Classic+Yach t+Regatta.+12%2F2%2F2005)

danged if I know. the url button given up the ghost has it?

http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/thumbnails.php?album=search&type=full&search=Race+Two+of+the+Lindauer+Classic+Yacht+Reg atta.+12%2F2%2F2005

http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/thumbnails.php?album=search&type=full&search=Lindauer+Classic+Yacht+Regatta+11%2F2%2F20 05

[ 05-25-2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Jase]

hehe a smidge over powered there perhaps smile.gif

[John B]

or under ballasted heh heh.

[TR]

Hi John,

Nice bunch of photos, I just ran through the first group.

What is Freedom of Leigh? Okay,... an interesting looking schooner, but what else can you tell us?

Tad

[John B]

She's an Alan Mummery design of about 48 ft Tad. I say about because she had a scoop added. the other one to the design is 'Ponsonby Scow'.
Both glass. ponsonby scow was up late last season getting her bustle faired and a new balance rudder fitted. It was an interesting job because the removal of some of the bustle was affecting displacement and that had to be accounted for in the trim.
F O L is for sale so there might be a broker listing with extra data. I'll have a look for you.

no pic. says here 53 ft so thats about as I recall it( after modification)
http://www.boatpoin t.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBoatID=424470&TabID=200976&Alias=boatpointnz (http://www.boatpoint.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBoatID=424470&TabID=200976&Alias=boatpointnz)

but check this out.. you like Spencer

Phantom is for sale too.
http://www.boatpoin t.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBoatID=845256&TabID=200976&Alias=boatpointnz (http://www.boatpoint.co.nz/DesktopDefault.aspx?UsedBoatID=845256&TabID=200976&Alias=boatpointnz)

In the Bay of Islands tall ships race in january ( in about 20 to 25 knots)we came 7th around the course. First over the line was Lion NZ the maxi, Then Phantom and I think Freedom was about 5th around.

better pics of F.O.L but now she's 58 ft.
http://www.boatbroker.co.nz/58__mummery_schooner.htm

oh I get it. both are f/s PS is 53 and F O L is 58

[ 05-25-2005, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Brahm Thexton]

Thanks, Nice pictures. Makes me want to get out sailing. Makes me want to go back to New Zealand...

[TR]

Humm...Thanks John, very interesting.

(Is it Alan?) Mummery is another designer for which there is almost no information available, at least in the northern hemisphere. Is he still alive and/or working? Anything published that you know of?

The 53' is $350k NZD and the 58' Freedom O L is $495k. The shallow draft (4'6") of the 58' is somewhat unusual in NZ?

Now tell me what you know about Phantom? I have never come across this boat before, or heard mention of her. Is she something new based on Infidel?

Thanks again, and take care.

Tad

[John B]

I think its probabably like any region Tad.... lots of locals with high prestige because of their designs yet little or no international exposure.Alan Mummery is one of them. He lives on waiheke Island I believe.To name some "recent" designers say from the 50's on .You will have heard of some of them. The sort of boats I'm used to sailng alongside or on.

Bob Stewart. patiki or stewart 34 class used in the citizen cup match races here up until the 90's. Frank Pelin,Beau Birdsall, John Spencer, Laurie Davidson,Bruce Farr, Ron Holland.Des Townson, Jim Young,Allan Warwick, Alan Wright, Murray Ross, Greg Elliot.Brett Bakewell-White.More will come to mind no doubt.
Some of these guys are responsible for extensive classes and evolutionary boats. Allan Wright for example, everything from 20ft to 40ft with multiple classes and size ranges in between. Des Townson is the designer of a most refined and modern classic style of boat. Bakewell-White came out of Davidsons design 'house' and it was some time before I realised that the boats I was looking at weren't Davidsons LOL.Familial look. Zana/Konica Minolta.
Jim Young Boats.. remember the NZ37 class exported to california? Did you know he built a Herreshoff 'sailing Machine'? Canting keel and all.. some time in the late 50's..60s I think. Of course she was illegal for racing and they didn't know about canards then so she was converted to a fixed keel. 48 ft long and about 7 ft wide. LOL. I'd love a Young 11 ( 1990's design)for a few seasons yeehaw! Do you remember his Rocket 31 boats? Geez, I never forget the first one of those I saw on the plane. Greg Elliot did time with him I believe, and followed on that style/generation of boat. Now look at Mari Cha and Maximus.

Phantom! Yes, there's a boat I know nothing about. She's always been in the Bay Of Islands 120 miles from here and she existed for many years before I even heard about her. Spencer lived up there for many years so I'm assuming that a local had her commissioned and built under his supervision. But she's well after infidel/new world/buccaneer.
I have a poor photo of her somewhere. I'll look for it for you. I gather she's been a working charter boat but as I say, not too knowledgable about her.
Stiletto might have some insight?

[ 05-26-2005, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

This is the only photo I've taken of Phantom.
We came into the bay just she was leaving ( in January)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid170/pa9684bae57b5f94efda14f89cce56cda/f3f7df2e.jpg

[TR]

My first thought was no..NZ surely has the highest concentration of most internationally influential yacht designers of any country. And that may be correct per capita :D

But in thinking about it further I suppose you are right. You could almost say the same about the Calkins/Lapworth to Peterson/Mull to Reichel/Pugh & Schumacher evolution/design family tree, not to mention Lee/Moore, here on the West Coast of NA. Of course the Peterson/Mull and Lee line is closely related or crossed up with the Spencer/Holland NZ line!!

Bob Stewart is the only one on your list that I'm completely unfamiliar with. The others have all made some small or large international mark. Except perhaps Des Townson, who I learned about in an issue of Boating NZ which came into my possession a few years back.

Was the Young machine called Fiery Cross? There is continuous mention of her in various canting keel patent debates that rage here and there.

There is an amazing Elliot vs. Elliot battle going on in the North Atlantic at the moment. To everyone’s surprise except the individual crews, a 100' sloop is actually faster than a 140' schooner, maybe? Let’s hope damage doesn’t put MC III out of the race.

Phantom - swept spreaders, short rig, 15/16ths fore triangle? Perhaps very narrow?

Tad

[Ed Harrow]

Good grief, that's one hell of long gaff for only one peak halyard! :eek:

[John B]

Fiery Cross she is Tad. I've heard that there is legal trouble. they bought the patent off LFH did they? :rolleyes: don't you just hate semantics. Still .. keeps the lawyers excited.

Des Townson made a decision to not go into the new generation planing hulls. His designs are typically 1970's boats of 32 to 36 ft but he also has some fine chine ply boats like the pied piper and Townson 28 and 30. He makes his money now building RC models. says hes made more doing that than building or designing boats.! you should see his dinghies. Mistral! Gorgeous things.

Bob Stewart is from the 40's and 50's really. The sort of man who would have influenced the others. the Stewart 34 as I said , was used for international match racing here.

http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/albums/races/lindauerclassic120205/c14978.jpg
I thought of it reading Noahs rig tuning thread because they have a masthead rig ,300 ft main and typically run their cap shrouds completely slack. So slack they need bungy cords to stop them waking you up at night. I asked Roy Dickson why they do it. IIRC its a combination of mast bend causing the slot to open but also enabling them to carry their sail longer. you never see one with a #2 genoa. Their other name is Patiki which means flat. flat run in 1950 frozen stiff. I saw Chris Dickson planing one down the harbour in a good 30 knotter one race series. UN.REAL.
Stewarts biggest boat is Northerner. 49 ft. we race him all the time. Mike always waves as he goes past.
John G raced Iorangi in a 40 knotter and logged 15 knots on the broad reach. Northerner overtook him at least a couple of knots faster. Not bad for a 49ft 1960's boat with 2 on board. Sheesh!

The very day.
http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/albums/classics/c13013.jpg

more pics of Northerner that day ,feb 2004.
http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/thumbnails.php?album=search&type=full&search=Northerner

[ 05-27-2005, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John B]

Ed.....que?

Moi , you mean?

[Stiletto]

The owner of Fiery Cross is a member of the yacht club I belong to and she is for sale, (if not recently sold). You would feel at home on her John B, as she is very slim. ;)

I know nothing about Phantom, I sail out of Mangonui, the Bay of Islands is a good part of a day's sail south from there.

[John B]

right. I always make that misunderestimextion.
D'ya know Jo. at the restaurant.?

[martin schulz]

What a nice boat. Does anybody here know the name, or the owner? :D

http://www.chriscameron.co.nz/db/albums/races/lindauerclassic110205/c14923.jpg
I guess that's what Ed was talking about. Benefits of modern yarns, I'd say!

[ 05-27-2005, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: martin schulz ]

[John B]

I experimented with the placement of the span until I got consistent and progressive bend over different wind ranges. and with 2:1 on both peak and throat halyards, there's something between 60 and 120 ft less halyard to coil down.

[AlanL]

I sail out of Mangonui Hey Stiletto, that's where I grew up smile.gif Lived at Coopers Beach, Chucks Cove and Taipa. Our family had the Seabreeze Restaurant back in the 70's and a number of businesses in Kaitaia.

Most of our boats, or those we had interests in, we moored in the Taipa River, or over at Awanui or Kaimaumau on the Awanui Harbour (great spot for water spouts :eek: )

Doubtless Bay is still one of the best places I have ever experienced for boating. Especially in late summer.

Alan

[ 05-28-2005, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Stiletto]

You are so right about Doubtless Bay and the end of summer/autumn. This is the first weekend since the end of feb that I havent been out.(lots of weekdays too :rolleyes: ).The fishing has been good this year.

Looking back at the shore from the bay, one can see how much building development has gone on in recent years.

Being a humble working man, I live in Kaitaia and travel over to the boat. The only property I can afford there has my mooring sunk into it. ;)

[AlanL]

Originally posted by Stiletto:
The fishing has been good this year.

:cool:

Looking back at the shore from the bay, one can see how much building development has gone on in recent years. Hmm. Yes. It is odd going there now. The house we were in at Coopers Beach was in the back row of houses overlooking the bay at the western end of the beach. Now there are two subdivisions behind it :rolleyes:

Living in Taipa as a teenager in the 70's I rebuilt my old boat with the help of our neighbour, the harbour master for Taipa. His name was Bertie Adamson. Bertie had the most wonderous workshop in which he built dinghies and launches. One of his philosophies was that you buy tools in bulk when they are cheap because you never know when they might break (in those days places like Taipa were very remote and to get replacements often required significant delays). Like, he showed me nail boxes of bits and files wrapped in grease proof that he had bought in the 50's and 60's. They were like new. Bertie left many good impressions on me, he was generous with his time (having little else), he was a real gentleman, he stood his ground on important issues and disregarded others and he had a love of wooden vessels of all kinds.

The last boat he built is still in Mangonui I think. It is/was called the Rona, a bridge decker with raked back dodger. He and his best friend, Peter Wilkinson, would burn all the paint off to the wood about every five years. Put new orange undercoat on and repaint. They would have this completed in the space of two weeks.

My little boat was a triple skin kauri launch that was built some 80 years before in Totara North, Whangaroa. I think she was built originally as a log tender, she was very, very strong and drew about 2'6" (only 18' long). With the three layers of carvel planking the combined skin thickness was 1.5". She had been through a hard working life when I got her at 15 years old (me that is) and needed a fair amount of repair. I had to replace a large part of the deadwood because of worm, etc. I also replaced the old engine, a Standard 10, complete with car gearbox and clutch :D I replaced that with a single cylinder Petter diesel.

Original purchase price? $250.00

While rebuilding all the topsides and removing worm infested parts I learned so much about boats in general. Now that is how the young should grow up in my estimation. Nearly every morning I would get up and clear the fishing nets up the River for breakfast. In the afternoons I would explore amongst the mangroves in a dinghy or the canoe :cool:

Alan

[ 05-28-2005, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Stiletto]

For a while, I had a launch that had been built in Totara North by Lanes. I bought it with a plank missing from the side , from a guy at Karikari Beach , never got it going as my house burned down in the interim and other priorities took over. I sold it and it was repaired and put into daily service in the Hokianga where I lived at the time. It came with a ford 105e marine anglia motor.

I always imagined that I would retire and live like the old guy you mentioned, only the rich can retire to the seaside these days.

[AlanL]

Originally posted by Stiletto:
never got it going as my house burned down in the interim.Ouch. Sorry to hear that.

I always imagined that I would retire and live like the old guy you mentioned, only the rich can retire to the seaside these days.Have you read the thread If I'da done it sooner (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004244). Some interesting viewpoints, but I thought the story about want-less was most thought provoking. Perhaps it is not so much a question of what you have that prevents, but what you are prepared to sacrifice to get it. Bertie was never a wealthy man, and we never got rich at the Seabreeze, but we all managed to live right by the river. Most of his income came from running the little holiday batches that are still there, beside the garage.

Admittedly if one were to live in Cable Bay, etc. then yes you would need some moolah to get in there.

[ 05-28-2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Stiletto]

Yes indeed, want less. That's pretty much how I do it these days. By the way, the seabreeze is still there, I buy my lunch there when I am working on the east coast.