Boat motor

[cs]

Whenever I start building my Friendship I'm going to need a motor for it. I'm getting ready to take the V-6 out of my truck and put in a V-8.

So here is my question. What would be involved getting this engine ready for a boat? I know one of the issues that comes up is the fact that is a gas burner. Would it be feasible to convert to alcohol?

Chad

[brad9798]

... yea, then you'd have a top-fuel Friendship! ;)

Personally, I wouldn't bother trying to do ANYTHING with that engine in water setting ...

By the time you marinized it (heads, etc.) it would be cheaper to buy one ready-made ... unless you do it yourself.

[huisjen]

I don't know the details, but MIZ BURNS (WB115, p.68), Katey's grandfather's ~33' lobster boat, had a former pick-up truck motor. They may not be ideal from a marine engineer's point of view, but they have been commonly used.

edit: On the other hand, there's a big difference between a traditional Friendship Sloop, and a Friendship, Maine built and operated lobster boat of about 40 years ago. Do you really want that heavy of engine in there? Friendship Sloops were traditionally run without engines, after all.

Dan

[ 01-30-2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: huisjen ]

[mmd]

Chad, it is a bit of a complicated subject of torque curves, cooling issues, gearboxes (do you shift in 2nd before achieving plane or after? ;) ), etc., but the primary worry with installing a land motor in a boat is risk of explosion and fire. Forty years ago a truck engine fitted in a lobsterboat was placed in an engine box that was about as airtight as a fishing net, and consequently any gasoline fumes were readily disappated. Even so, many such boats burned at the most inappropriate times.

These days, especially in pleasure boats, owners want the engine to be so quiet and odourless as to be almost unnoticable, and to achieve this they put them in hermetically sealed compartments liberally covered with acoustic insulation. This creates an ideal place for the build-up of gasoline fumes and the introduction of a stray spark from non-marinzed carburetors, alternators, ignition coils, or whatever, and KA-BOOM! A major explosion on-board can seriously dampen the fun of an outing on the boat.

I'd suggest hauling your v6 out of the truck, tarting it up a bit so that it looks nice, and selling it at your nearest auto swap-meet. Take the money realized and go shopping for a rebuilt small Yanmar or Volvo diesel and live safely ever after. A Friendship sloop shouldn't need more than a dozen or so horsepower, anyway.

[psk125]

Guess who wrote a whole article about this - specifically installing a Nissan or Mazda engine into a launch, I believe. The article covers a lot of the points raised above, with explainations about why (or why not) they're important. Check the Woodenboat index/archives for it. It must have been at least four or five years ago.

[J. Dillon]

Chad,

If it were up to me I'd forget about any inboard engine for the boat you're considering. More trouble then their worth. An inboard engine takes up more room and has all it's surporting stuff with the potential of fire. :eek: BUT a good bracket and an outboard motor makes more sense. If it has any problems ya can take it home in your cozy shop and work on it.

That's my two cents ;)

JD

[Jack Heinlen]

Others have been either kind or ignorant. A six cylinder, OF ANY KIND , doesn't belong in this boat. I'm rather amazed you didn't get jumpted all over. What a bonehead idea!

If you put a motor in this boat it needs to be the smallest Sabb, or a single cylinder gas like an old Palmer.

Come'on boy, learn some dynamics. Imagine your six truck motor in the bilge of the Roth Friendship(Imagine if you can, I'm sure the measurements don't measure! Ha!). What a disaster! I'm almost tempted to say you were making a joke, but will leave that to the gods. I really can't imagine one, especially Michael, didn't call you on it. Your proposal is absurd. Nuff said. Go learn.

[JimD]

Ya, but a Freindship that can do zero to sixy in 12 seconds? Now that's a lobster boat! :cool:

[Jack Heinlen]

I think I've been had.

I don't mind being taken in the mind, taken for a ride sometimes. I'm clearly a gullible fool. One imagines, and is broken. Chad has to tell us.

Come'on Chad, you were making this up?

[cs]

Jack that tone don't suit you. I'm not pulling any chains so maybe you can be a little more civil in your tone.

My experiance with boats is from what I've read in books and the one I've built. I was raised in the hill and mountains of East Tennessee and have never had the privilage of being raised around boats like most of you. So I ask my question out of ignorance wanting to expand my knowledge base.

Chad

[cs]

Sorry for my tone Jack.

Thanks for your input guys. I wouldn't have thought that an outboard would be what you would want. I will have to pull the plans out when I get home, but I was thinking that they called for an inboard motor, or at least had a specific place for it.

Chad

[Buddy]

I believe we're all clear now on how little weight, room, and power that friendship sloop is going to need and tolerate. What's got me curious is your truck. Can you really swap from the six to an eight on your truck ( same engine mounts and transmission holes etc?) and come out ahead of simply selling your truck outright and buying a similar, but factory issued 8 cylinder vehicle?

[Jack Heinlen]

Chad,

I apoligize for offense, but the notion is so absurd I had to wonder, but I shouldn't have, you are a straight shooter and I apologize.

The idea of putting a six cylinder gas engine in this boat is completely absurd.

A friend calls you when you make no sense. I'm calling you. This is worse than absurd, ridiculous.

Jack

[Bob Smalser]

Youse guys experience is too modern and too sophisticated.

Old Uncle Paul built a dozen or so commercial Garveys for coastal watermen during my childhood during the late '40's-early '60's.

All of them had auto engines straight out of the junkyard with fresh rings and bearings...all raw-water cooled and dry stacks. Cheapest way to do it, I guess. I don't remember what he did for transmissions, tho...but it was some sort of simple reduction gear with cone clutch, as I remember. School generally started by the time he got to the engines at the end of the summer and I was gone.

Problem was you needed easy access, because those water jackets rusted through in a few short years...with spectacular results at the finale ala "Jaws". Wouldn't be my choice for your yacht.

[ 02-02-2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[nedL]

I believe LOTS of working boat on the Chesepeake (& even down east) pulled engines (w/ manual transmission) right out of the car & dropped it in the boat. Run dry stacks straight up. No need for the clutch, just throw it in 2nd for forward (close to a 1:1 ratio), & rev. for rev. After 2-3 years, by the time the transmission was shot from no thrust bearing it was time to replace the engine anyway.
As the others said, for a Friendshop sloop you want just a nice little one or two cylinder guy.

[ 02-02-2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: nedL ]

[cs]

Thanks for the help guys. So I reckon a V-6 is to big for my boat.

Jack I don't think that the notion is "absurb" although to you it may be. I've always been told that there is no such thing as a stupid question, the only stupid question is the one not asked.

Buddy about my conversion. It will be no problem dropping in a V-8 in my truck. The V-6 coming out is the same block as the V-8 going in (minus the front two cylinders). The chevy V-6 block is of the same family and all pariphells will bolt straight up and even the motor mounts are in the same location. And besides the Chevy 1500 series truck is better off with a V-8.

As far as cost, I'm not sure. I will have next to nothing in this new engine and I got a whale of a deal on the truck. This truck had everything I was looking for in a truck except the V-8. Other than that it was perfect and I will keep it for a long time. When it is all said and done I will come out ahead of the curve in money and value.

Chad

[John Bell]

Chad, you'll only need 12-15 horsepower (if that much!) for a little boat like that Friendship. Save the 150 or so horses in the V-6 for something that can use them, like a jetski! :D

[ 02-02-2004, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: John Bell ]

[cs]

Hey John, could you imagine the surpised looked on the jetskier face, who just splashed you with his wake, when that full keeled friendship sloop comes up on a plane and tracks him down. :D

Chad

[J. Dillon]

Hey guys we're talking about a SAILBOAT. :cool: a 6 hp outboard will power it just fine in smooth water. When it pipes up you sail the boat with what ever reefing it needs.
;)
Learn to handle the boat under sail with little reliance on any motor. :eek: The only justification for a motor is to get back home in a calm or working through a crowded anchorage and even the second reason can be done under sail only in that size boat with a little experience under your belt. ;)

JD

[Figment]

Originally posted by cs:
Hey John, could you imagine the surpised looked on the jetskier face, who just splashed you with his wake, when that full keeled friendship sloop comes up on a plane and tracks him down. :D

ChadDoes anyone here remember the end of the movie One Crazy Summer??? with the Ferrari/boat....

[John Bell]

Originally posted by cs:
Hey John, could you imagine the surpised looked on the jetskier face, who just splashed you with his wake, when that full keeled friendship sloop comes up on a plane and tracks him down. :D

ChadGonna need a lot more than 150 horses to get that boat on plane. Here's what you need, a 4000 HP 42 cylinder radial engine:

http://www.yachtboutique.com/images/BM_Engines.jpg

[J. Dillon]

Looks like it would make a good permanment mooring. ;)

JD

[Jack Heinlen]

Chad,

Reviewing my posts, I was a bit heated on the topic, but if it keeps you from staying awake at night planning how to do this I've done my part. ;)

A look at the sections where a motor will go, and a quick measurement of your V-6 will kill the image as nicely. Plus, as others have said, you need six horses, not 150.

If you want to put an inboard in the boat start looking and asking now for an old either Sabb or Volvo one lunger diesel. I can't remember the numbers, but the smallest ones they made. They have a way of turning up, gifts of a sort from one sailor to another in time of need. They are slow turning hunks of cast iron, and with a little care last forever. They would fit the boat's character, can probably still be had for under a grand(not needing a rebuild), and would do the job quite nicely.

Sadly, I don't believe either are available new, what with the infusion of fast, light Japanese diesels. But with the dollar at all time lows, a new one would cost half the materials in the boat anyway, so it's a blessing of sorts.

Again, sorry to launch into you like that. I had a Cleek moment. smile.gif It's good you are asking questions.

Best,

Jack

[cs]

Not a problem Jack.

John, you reckon I could fit that in my truck? :D

Chad

[JeffH]

A couple years ago one enterprising lobsterman installed a V-12 Merlin aircraft engine for the races. Just about sank his boat, but at around 1,500 horsepower she was fast :D

Jeff