Ship Cruises can be dangerous.

[Norske3]

Don't walk the decks alone...especially at night. :eek: web page (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article333240.ece)

[ 12-15-2005, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

see my post re SS United States

[WindHawk]

Just watched the Court TV coverage of the testimony before Congress today. They really do have a credibility problem. Remember when they got caught red-handed dumping waste in US waters, and then continued to deny it? Looks like the same group of PR guys are working on this.

The treatment of the wife in the latest case is unbelievable, and then they just sailed off with 2,000 passengers and one or more likely murderers aboard. They left her & her baggage on the dock in Turkey. Yep, I sure trust the Turkish Police; but on second thought, much more so than the Captain of this particular Royal Carib. ship.

Responsability is drilled into every seaman from day one, and then the bean counters corrupt the whole concept for the sake of a schedule. :mad:

Likely, most often, someone falling overboard is their own damn fault; but hey, they need to be watched like the children they are encoureged to act like, "another drink, anyone?"

[Billy Bones]

Although I really enjoyed seeing the Alaskan inside passage this sept, we will NEVER set foot on a cruise ship again. The veneer of luxury, even on the line we took which has a superb reputation, is paper thin and rubs through all too often to reveal a corporate monster beneath.

Never.

Ever.

Shudder.

[Meerkat]

Details?

[J. Dillon]

Did a passage around S.A and Cape Horn last winter. If ya like lines for EVERYTHING then a cruise ship is the way to go. Even getting aboard is a line enduring experience with all kinds of papers to sign, ID photo's to take etc. etc. Some of the places we pulled into there were other cruise ships already tied up. Ya have to wait on line to sign up for a tour, a line to get on one of the 60 buses lined up to go to what ever you signed up for then when you get there (often a 2 to 3 hr bus ride) , you have to line up to get to the spot a picture is worth taking from. Chow the same. It reminded me of my Navy days. Besides all of the above I got sick the 4 th day out not from the weather but a respiratory ailment that was going around the ship. Sneeze and cough, sniff from just about everybody aboard despite all the "sanitizing" all around you . We heard if you go to the ships Doc he will confine you to your cabin.

By contrast a small barge trip to the Netherlands and canals was a delight no lines any where and the food was great . Only 14 people aboard.

Oh yea since 9/11 no body gets a tour of the bridge on a large cruise ship but on the barge the skipper would let you take the wheel for a bit.

A large cruise ship, never again. Small is better IMHO.

JD

[Norske3]

Details...Mr. Bones...please.

[High C]

Pffhht... :rolleyes:

14 people out of 20 million manage to fall overboard. I'm amazed it's that low.

I've been on one of the ships mentioned in the article, and I'm going again in May. Woohoo!

[Ken Hutchins]

Billy Although I really enjoyed seeing the Alaskan inside passage this sept, we will NEVER set foot on a cruise ship again. IMO the best way to travel the Alaska inside passage is on the Alaske state ferry system, not on the tour ships.

[WindHawk]

20 million passengers??? The Conn. Senator laughed about that one. Best guess for US passengers is 200,000/year. This just goes to show you how amaturish the PR guys are. They really should just sit down, shut up, take thier lumps & promise to do better.

[John Turpin]

Originally posted by Billy Bones:
The veneer of luxury, even on the line we took which has a superb reputation, is paper thin and rubs through all too often to reveal a corporate monster beneath.A guy I work with told me a funny story about his recent Alaskan cruise. They stopped at some popular hiking/exploring area and were putting people ashore. Evidently, it was a spectacular day. The entire ship headed to land to explore and enjoy the scenery and beautiful day.

Larry realized that his camera's memory card was about full, so he raced back to his cabin for his spare card. His through ship short-cut required him to dash through the exercise facility. As he raced through the empty room, there was one guy walking on a treadmill. As he plodded along, exercise guy was intently staring at the TV in front of him. The TV was set to a camera that was pointed at the scenery outside. Here was a guy pretending to be walking in nature, in lieu of actually walking in nature.

I guess his heart got exercise, but I'm betting his soul didn't.

[Billy Bones]

Chances are good he got more exercise on the treadmill than most of the other excursionists combined. We begged the excursion director for activities which involved walking. Even our 5yo daughter is game for long walks and since so much of the trip is at sea (unlike here in the caribbean where each destination is a short jaunt from the next) we really wanted to stretch our legs. The final stop in Ketchikan boasted an excursion which offered a reasonable chance at seeing bears, as well as old forest, an old sawmill, and some totem pole carving. The director assured us there was good hiking on this one.

We got nervous as we boarded the bus. A lady with a walker also booked this one. When we arrived, sure enough the walker lady was welcomed, wasn't the least bit taxed on the hike, and we were pretty disappointed. The port call was seven hours long, and wehiked for about 20 minutes, spent another 25 touring the mill and seeing the carver (pretty cool, but he had the cynicism you might expect of someone past whom cruisies wander all day, every day). We were then deposited in the (cruise company owned, it turns out) gift shop for an HOUR waiting for the bus to come ("It'll be along shortly....PLEASE don't wander away from the gift shop and miss the bus....You know the difference between a tourist and a hitchiker?....two minutes...Ha ha ha ha!")

In short, we spent more time in line going through the metal detectors back aboard ship than we did hiking.

And don't wear hiking boots on a cruise. Mine have lightweight steel shanks for support, which meant I got "special attention" from the cute but all-too-businesslike security lady. Didn't Ian once say they were usually Ghurkas? Wouldn't be surprised.

On our other two ports of call we ended up having the same tour bus operator, he having been flown from Juneau to Skagway overnight while we cruised. Turns out he works for a wholly owned subsidiary of the cruise line too. His speil was good, but he himself was from southern california.

In short we met 4 Alaskans the entire time. One was an exasperated USFS lady who was trying to direct herds of busses while carrying on a conversation with us. One was a gypsy tour operator with horses and carriages in Ketchikan, and two were actually our dinner tablemates who lived in seattle but were cruising back home for the fun of it.

Their technique at each stop was inspired. He is an engineer and she is a political functionary, yet they would put on slumming duds and get off the ship as early as possible, take the shortest route away from the throngs, and hitch hike wherever they wanted to go. They saw more of AK before lunch in Juneau, our first stop, than we saw in all three ports of call combined. And it was free.

They said, (and my experience here in the caribbean bears this out completely) that the best way to see your destination is to jump on a taxi tour as early as possible. They usually only charge $20/pp for at least half a day, or often just $65-$80 for the whole van for the whole tour. (as opposed to $100-$500 pp for each excursion through the cruise company.)

There you go with some examples. Daily life on the ship is also replete with examples of how the cruise line tries and succeeds at being on the receiving end of every cent you spend on your trip. The prices aren't as inflated as you often hear, or weren't at least on our trip, yet the company is masterful at making sure that it gets all the money, wherever you end up spending it.

[Billy Bones]

Oh yes, forgot to mention that the lady in the walker was actually quite nice and game for anything within reason. It was actally the lady who was still in her pajamas and smoked the whole time that hacked us off the most.

Still, it was a fun trip all in all.

The best part, though, was that we went to seattle 5 days early and spent them on Vancouver island, mostly in Tofino, which I HEARTILY recommend to any vacationing family. The drive across the island alone is worth the price of the rental car.

[Meerkat]

Billy; You might find "Europe Through the Backdoor" interesting. Their whole premise is to not do the highly structured tour thing.

They do do "bus and hotel" tours, but much of the free time is yours. Hiking/walking is virtually required, as they will clearly mention before you get on the plane (to Europe).

http://www.ricksteves.com

[willmarsh3]

I have a Windjammer cruise on my short list of vacation ideas - very small compared to Royal Caribbean, Carnival, etc.

Will.

[brian.cunningham]

A wouldn't mind a cruise on one of these
http://www.cruiseserver.net/images/ships/wj_poly.jpg

The Windjammer Fan Club Webring (http://u.webring.com/hub?ring=windjammering)

I think you'll like thier sense of humor ;)
http://burke.joybuzzer.com/windjammer/images/Sinking.jpg
NEWS FLASH!:
AP St. Maarten: The Windjammer Barefoot Curise Lines' ship Polynesia sank the unarmed Royal Caribbean ship Fascination in a brief skirmish off of St. Maarten yesterday. When asked why he ordered the sinking, Capt. Neil of the Polynesia replied "Because I could." Much to the dismay of the passengers and crew of Fascination the only reaction from Polynesia was a round of cheers, and 50 or so naked behinds aimed at the sinking ship. Capt. Neil immediately ordered open bar, and set sail for Nevis to play a round of golf.


[ 12-16-2005, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: brian.cunningham ]

[willmarsh3]

LOL! :D

Will

[High C]

Originally posted by WindHawk:
20 million passengers???... Best guess for US passengers is 200,000/year. This just goes to show you how amaturish the PR guys are....Well let's run those numbers.

The average large cruise ships carries maybe 2,200 passengers at a time.

Average cruise length, maybe 6 days. That's 60 cruises a year x 2200 passengers = 132,000 passengers.

And that's only one ship. How many are there? There are well over a hundred just counting the really big lines.

That's 13.2 million already, plus the small lines and those that cruise in distant waters.

Those PR guys sound like pros to me.

[Billy Bones]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
Billy; You might find "Europe Through the Backdoor" interesting. Their whole premise is to not do the highly structured tour thing.

They do do "bus and hotel" tours, but much of the free time is yours. Hiking/walking is virtually required, as they will clearly mention before you get on the plane (to Europe).

http://www.ricksteves.comThanks Meer,

Our plans went through many itterations. We planned to go to Europe next spring and bought many guides, including the excellent rick steves one you mention. My finger was poised over the purchase button for the tickets when my wife came home after a bad day and said 'We're going, and NOW'. A friend of hers had just returned from an Alaska IP trip and raved about it, so we checked it out and got a last minute cabin on cancellation.

Next time prolly in 3 years or so, we're both agreed, it's Europe, and hiking, and kneejerk decisions be damned.

[Norske3]

Mr. Bones....I enjoyed Europe...many moons ago....Uncle Samuel paid for all expenses (almost)...if you like warm balmy air(late Spring to early Fall) then Northern Italy ..the whole area is gorgeous!...(Lake Como a MUST SEE!)...its a garden of Eden)...Tuscany...Florence...drives to the Med Coast for a swim...blue water....just like you have in the Carrib. :cool: ...I give the area 8 stars. ++++++++

After a few days there you will want to do nothing but sit on the high hills...take in the scenery ...drink wine...eat fresh bread/cheese and forget your travel itinerary. :cool: :cool:
p.s. Avoid Southern Italy...to many Italianos. :D

[ 12-18-2005, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[WindHawk]

If they can get 360 days a year/ship cruising they're doing a great job on turn around for maintainence. I wonder what the true figure is, two days out for one day in? Three days out. for one day in? In any event, you're counting passenger days, not passengers.

That's the same trick the airlines use to describe their safty records: "We fly 17 gadzillion passenger miles between fatal crashes!!!" Yeah well, they only fly several thousands of take off & landings between crashes. They usually fly long distances, so they'd rather count miles rather than take offs & landings. Don't know about you, but I don't consider a flight a "success" 'till I can plant a kiss on the tarmac.

I'm not bashing the airlines, I'm saying that if I take four people out on my boat for a day, I don't think the Coast Guard is going to count it as four days worth of experience...

[ 12-18-2005, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: WindHawk ]

[Norske3]

Throwing a fan blade thru the cabin...(I prefer not to sit inline with the engines)...and electrical fire while far out over the ocean is what scares me. :eek:

[WindHawk]

If the people who got so upset about the Air Marshall shooting last week get thier way, the scariest part of flying for me is going to be the warning shot they put through the cabin top before thay shoot to kill... :rolleyes:

[High C]

Originally posted by WindHawk:
...In any event, you're counting passenger days, not passengers.... No I'm not. Check your math.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I went on a Holland America Cruise quite a few years back for a week.. it left out of Tampa, and cruised down to Jamaica stopping twice in Mexico at Cancun and Chixinitze (I know that's wrong). The boat was the Neiuw Amsterdam, and it carried 1200 passengers and 900 crew I believe. Great food, a relaxing time, but the money was all controlled by the line... altho I suspect they control the experience to control some of the propective liability. In Jamaica, they announced before leaving the boat that if we were caught with drugs or illegal substances, the ship would sail without us. ;)

As for cruising time, those boats would not be able to cruise 360 days a year. They also would not be full all the time either. I supect their down time is at least two months a year, if not more. Updating, maintenance and overhaul not withstanding, you have holidays and shore leave for crew and senior officers. They make money based on the boats ability to last for years.

[ 12-18-2005, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

[Billy Bones]

Originally posted by WindHawk:
I wonder what the true figure is, two days out for one day in? Three days out. for one day in? In any event, you're counting passenger days, not passengers.

Those ships are incredibly efficient. They take about 8 hours to disembark everyone and their luggage and embark a new load, bunker and provision for a week or 10 days. They do not waste a moment of billable time.

[StevenBauer]

Originally posted by Billy Bones:

Next time prolly in 3 years or so, we're both agreed, it's Europe, and hiking, and kneejerk decisions be damned.[/QB]How about the Douarnenez 2006 (or2008) maritime festival?

www.fetesmaritimes.com (http://www.fetesmaritimes.com)
www.douarnenez2004.com (http://www.douarnenez2004.com)

Or the big festival in Brest in 2008, or both?

www.brest2008.fr (http://www.brest2008.fr)

Be careful searching on the second one, though. :D

We're hoping to do a family vacation to Europe and plan to include one of these festivals. See you there! smile.gif

Steven

[ 12-18-2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: StevenBauer ]

[brian.cunningham]

I'm more worried about stuff like this:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/01/22/cruise.virus/

State: Workers disinfect virus-laden Disney cruise ship -- again (http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/01/State/Workers_disinfect_vir.shtml)