The Twizzle Rig for downhill sailing

[Smacksman]

I've at last got my info on the twizzle rig online at:-

http://www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/index.htm

complete with pics and mpg video clips.

What is a twizzle rig? Well it looks like this -

http://www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/pics/sail200.jpg

- twin running jibs sewn into a common luff tape and hoisted up a furling gear foil. Poled out with the poles joined inboard to a universal joint suspended in front of the mast and allowed to swing, or twizzle, athwartships.

It is a great downwind cruising rig which has -

a] low chafe

b] easy to reef from the cockpit

c] can be trimmed for winds through 60 degrees each side of astern

d] damps rolling

e] can be adapted to sail close hauled

After sailing from Cape Town to Tobago earlier this year using the twizzle rig for most of the 5,000 plus miles I can recommend it.

I would really like to hear from others who have sailed with a twizzle to compare notes and form a knowledge base for the benefit of all.

Any questions? smile.gif

[Hwyl]

I sailed a French boat that had a similar rig, it was called a "Booster" some differences: Seperate poles, you could set it as a genoa by "closing the book" and tying the clews together.

[John B]

How critical is the universal joint Smacksman.
can you not just clip the parrots beaks on seperate rings as with a normal pole.?

[Smacksman]

John,

I wonder if I understood you correctly?

The universal joint is the key to the rig and the fact that the poles are not clipped to the mast. It ends up as a cruciform because it needs to have an uphaul and downhaul to the bows.

In use, the uj is in constant motion trying to correct the roll - fascinating to watch - bit like an autopilot. It is crucial for the poles not to be clipped to the mast as in a regular twin jib setup.

The rope uj worked best because of it was soft and pliable and let the jaws of the pole end fittings take up their natural angle.

Well worth the effort to set up.

Roger

[Ian McColgin]

Roger, you may have seen my e-mail. Sometimes people read them in the notification in their own e-mail without opening the WBForum version so it forever looks unread.

I'm interested in your rope U-joint. I did one as a pure lash-up but was not convinced of it's longevity. For my real version I've been considering simply a fixed ring at the end of each pole and connecting by a stout shackle. Maybe some double hole rubber or rawhide washers stacked on each leg of the shackle to keep the rings from capsizing the shackle.

The sail I used was an old 'gennaker.' One of those ideas that did not quite work as planned, the gennaker was a two ply genney that could then be spread as a twin down wind. Without proper poling, especially on something with three masts like Granna, it was hopeless. But it was a good test bed of the twizler idea, even though it was much too large and the clews were too low.

one very nice part of the gennaker was that it had a luffstay sewn in as it was meant to go up on the old time Merriman roller-furler. I moved the tack ahead of the head stay and hoisted it on a hallyard that, like a spinnaker hallyard, rode outside everything. That way I could roll it up downwind without a tangle.

Your plan of putting it up a luff foil will also work. And, as with the gennaker idea, you could use the rig to weather.

I had trouble with the gennaker pieces lieing together when going to weather. After each tack, the inner clew needed to be pulled back. If I was shorthanded and doing lots of tacking, I'd sometimes just use a bit of light line to bind the clews.

In my own final job I will consider carrying two different rigs: A common luff roller rig that's fairly large; and a hank on alternatly rig that uses the #1 jib and the yet to be made #2.

If my poles are long enough to the big rig, they will ride ok with the smaller one, just have the apex with the U-joint a bit more inboard.

I want to work on emergency proceedures in the event of an over-board. The fact that the rig can fly to weather once the poles are dropped is of some comfort.

I am very much a fan of this rig for ocean cruising.

[Smacksman]

Ian, my humble apologies for not reading your email. I have just gone to 'my profile' for the first time EVER and read your letter. I didn't realise the facility was there :blush:

Believe me, the rope universal is best imho. Ours did two legs of about 10 days and ~1400 miles each with no serious chafe at all.

If you had a ring at the end of each pole then a strop of rope say 300mm / 12" dia. linking the rings and the up- and down-hauls bent on to the strop would do fine.

The thing to bear in mind is the violent motion on the foredeck when the sails are off her so the more handsomely you can rig the gear the better.

I would quite like to see a sea proof version of a car seat belt beside the mast so you can strap yourself in and use both hands.

Don't worry too much about getting back to pick someone overboard. Whatever the rig, the chances of finding someone off a yacht is tiny. Two swells and 30 secs. away and they are invisible. Just stay with the boat! I think it would be a case of roll up the twizzle, get all ropes aboard and start the engine for the plug into wind to get back.

Using the twizzle jibs to windward, as I described, is a reserve method and not really a substitute for a dedicated genoa.

The low height of genniker clews does allow you to reach the clews to bend on the sheets and so on, but may well pick up the seas as you roll.

I would go for it Ian and try it out on a local cruise. We set the rig up inside Knysna lagoon to demonstrate how the gear worked and beat back with the twin jibs doubled so it doesn't take much room.

[John B]

I haven't had a chance to look at the link yet Roger, but I see its a lot more than twin sails on poles so I'll try to grasp the details a bit later.
Should have left 5 minutes ago for a race... gale warning today.25 to 35 and 35 to 45 forecast a bit later today. we'll see if we can drive the old girl ( Not Waione)over the sports boats today!!

ciao!

soon to be wet john.

Just got back. we were a bit knocked around. flattened a stanchion right up against the cabin coaming in a broach with the kite up. We ended up poling the jib for the other 2 runs. I suggested a twizzel rig. LOL.

[ 08-08-2004, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Smacksman]

Wow! The bag up in an autumnal Force 8! You must be a red hot crew to handle that.

Me - I'm off to 7 hours or so for a village cricket match. Cloudless sky, 27C, SE 4 sea breeze starting to kick in and thunderstorms forecast later.

Like all simple things, there is more to a twizzle rig than meets the eye.

What are peoples thoughts on the dymanics of the downwind death roll? I know from sailing a Laser, Fin and Contender dinghies that a single main right out on a run can get into a catastrophic pendulum when a puff hits but never really got to the bottom of the 'whys and wherefores' of why it did it.

The twizzle rig is able to dampen the rolling tendencies but I'm not 100% sure why or how.

Hi, Hwyl ( a good Welsh name)

Can you tell me more about the experience of the French 'booster' rig? Any pictures? Were the poles on a universal joint in front of the mast?

Roger

[Ian McColgin]

It dampens the death roll because the out from the bow V gives resisting surface both ways while the older twins ^ leaves a venturi right across both luffs that can lead to 'self-excitation' rolling. Font too small but you get the idea. If the bow of the boat points right then the twizzler sets < while conventional twins set >.

I think the twizzler sets up not exactly a smooth venturi like you expect on a wing surface but a massive low pressure between the sails so that it has more power than simply a flat surface area windpressure push.

[John B]

Thats a great job you've done of the site there Roger. I think I grasp it now. I’ll run one of your videos later.

We broached yesterday because of mistakes so despite sailing together for the last 5 years it was a cock up that caused the problem. We had a new small 2.2 oz kite which we hadn’t set before .We didn’t get it fully hoisted before we broke it out. Thats what caused the broach and some more near misses with the death rolls after we got it set again. Took us forever to get the thing up the last 2 or 3 feet. It was about 30 most of the time they say so it didn’t get as bad as the forecast said.

Love to hear more about the trip sometime.

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Smacksman:
Hi, Hwyl ( a good Welsh name)

Can you tell me more about the experience of the French 'booster' rig? Any pictures? Were the poles on a universal joint in front of the mast?

RogerIt was almost before the age of photography, actually I misread your post--the Booster is just what Ian (so eloquently) described, the poles wer attached to the mast, just a double sail with a single luff. It was on a mini trantsat (now transat 6.5) boat, and the skipper prefered the booster to his masthead spinnaker (fractional rig). It was blowing 20 to 25 if I remember.

I am a Welshman, my real name Gareth Hughes is more Welsh--you probably know that "Hwyl" means both "sail" and "fun" in Welsh.

Hope the cricket was good and you saved me some cucumber sandwiches. I took the kids to an international music festival (not an eisteddfod)

[Smacksman]

Originally posted by Ian McColgin:
If the bow of the boat points right then the twizzler sets < while conventional twins set >.
Ian, to use your excellent analogy, our twizzle poles veed forward like < but the clews of the jibs set aft of the luff like > . Only when the twizzle was heavily reefed and also when getting furled up prior to stowing were the leaches of the jibs forward of the luff ( like < ). I think that heavily reefed in a big blow, the < shape must help steer the boat down wind - although we never had winds above 35 gusting to 40 knots the whole trip and about half a reef coped with that easily. She had a nice feeling of stability; security; comfortably working within herself; that sort of feeling hard to describe but a nice feeling. We just knocked the Autohelm 7000 up and down 10 degrees to adjust her course to the setting of the sails as the puffs came through with big wind shifts. No problem.

I like the idea of a massive low pressure 'pulling' her along but our poles aren't long enough for that when fully unfurled.

John, The kite breaking out early is a curse but happens often. My friend the other day was hauling up the bag with commendable speed when a rogue puff sneaked round the back of the main, caught an edge, ripped all the stops and filled. He held on grimly as the halyard burned through his hands 'cos he knew it would result in the kite flying 60 foot from the mast head if he let go. His hands were a MESS.

Gareth, The mini Transat is an amazing development class with many ideas adopted by bigger boats in later years. It reminds me of the ingenuity of designers of model yachts and the ideas they have handed down. If the boat in question had clipped his poles to a universal joint instead of his mast he would have been amazed at the difference. And yes, hwyl is one of the few words I know in Welsh but I didn't know it also meant 'sail'. And the cricket was fun but the tea was outstanding!

[Ian McColgin]

I got my first Twizzler info from an article. Don't remember by whom or when but his point was that the polls were definatly long enough to get the sorta reverse plough shape with the clews definatly and well forward of the tack.

I thing this results in some higher loading at the U-joint and it may be that the fibre U-joint you made would not work as well.

It would be interesting to compare how your flatter rig works against the more distinctly V'd rig. I think with longer poles you'll have more power and more roll dampening, but maybe the twizzler has evolved, as have so many things, since I first read of it and did some very modest not tried out to sea experiments.

[skuthorp]

So that's what you callit! Tod Bradshaw put me on to essentially the same thing as a storm jib for my Macgreggor to get me ashore safely in the sort of changes we get on Westernport. Split boom and a rope yoke, tows the boat home safely where the regular sail becomes a handfull and risks broaching.

[Smacksman]

hi skuthorp,

Three questions;

a] did your setup have a name?

b] did you use it much and how did you get on with it?

c] what's special about your winds other than being fresh?