London Olympic dinghy classes

[Hwyl]

In 1948 they had : Star, 6 Metre, Dragon, Golondrina (I've never heard of that, I know it translates to Swallow, it was won by Stewart Morris) and of course the Firefly (won by some guy called Elvstrom).

I wonder what they'll have in 2012. I'd like to see all new boats (sorry Bamamick). Maybe a foiling boat as a singlehander. I'd rather have 6 metre's or Dragons as a keelboat. I hope they get rid of the Yngling and the 470 (470's were cutting edge when I was young). I'd like to see a Bethwaite or Morrison design.

If there was to be a wood boat, how would you make it a one design? It could be supplied by the builders like the Firefly or the Finn, certainly be nice.

Will the venue be Cowes or Brighton or Woodbridge?

[rbgarr]

The events will sail out of and off the Weymouth & Portland Sailing Academy facilities in Dorset.

http://www.wpnsa.org.uk/

[Hwyl]

That makes sense. I almost put Lyme bay as a choice, that's the other side of Portland Bill. I'm sure they'll use that too.

http://www.portlandbill.co.uk/images/aerial/ariel_view_north.jpg

[ 07-09-2005, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[bamamick]

I do think that it's interesting that they still carry the two-man keel boat in the Olympics when really the Star and the Tempest, and maybe the Flying 15 are the only two-man international classes around.

You know, if indeed the Olympics continues with sailing as we know it right now, it would not be such a surprise for the Dragon to make a return. Sure, they are incredibly expensive for their size, but the class is active in more countries than any other three-man boat, even though the E22 is much more favored in the US. Their popularity in Europe is unquestioned.

One thing that I would like to see: the inclusion of the J/22 as a woman's keel class. Makes a lot of sense, and the Yngling just does not seem to have the appeal.

We have a local guy who is doing a 470 campaign. Lot of local support. The kid is a really good sailor. I think that they had something like 6 or 7 470's at the last trials (US trials). A new boat like the 49er I can understand, but we've got hundreds (and maybe thousands) of kids racing 420's in this country every summer. If the 470 doesn't have any more appeal than to draw 7 boats to the Olympic trials then it must not be a boat that the masses want to sail.

In short, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of a shake-up in the Games. To be honest with you, I personally wouldn't mind seeing a few 'open classes' like the I-14 or the 5.5 or 6 mR back in. Put some engineering into it. That stuff really does trickle down to the rest of us, and we wind up with all sorts of innovation in the sailing world.

Mickey Lake

[Wild Wassa]

Many over here regret the demise of the Europe. I know a person who bought a Europe especially to try to make it to the Olympics. They were upset when the class was dropped from the programme and haven't been in a boat since.

The Hobbie 16 should also be added to the Olympic Classes, being the planet's most popular racing cat.

How about RC model yachts? They are years ahead and so innovative (as keel boats) and their Skippers are as much the racing sailors ... as the rest of us.

Warren.

[ 07-09-2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
I'd like to see a Bethwaite or Morrison design.

OOps I'd forgotten about the 49er

[John Meachen]

The Olympic classes that just about disappear when de-selected are an illustration that the decision to remve them from the games was probably correct.That the 470 has so few adherents in spite of still being included raises questions.I have always thought the lack of a spinnaker chute made it seem old fashioned.The Europe seemed to be a good boat but when I heard about the cost of the rig for a modern boat,I was staggered.The carbon mast alone cost more than two thirds the price of a new Laser and given the constant development,several masts were needed during a campaign.It is the cost of development that makes me think it unlikely that a development class will ever be chosen as there are meny countries in the world that would be excluded.It also means that the competition involves designers and engineers rather than just an athlete.Not really the Olympic ethos.I could be persuaded that the 470 ought to be replaced by a one design version of the International 10 sq.m canoe as there is no doubt about the athleticism involved.

[Wild Wassa]

Something for the young'uns in Ol' Blighty to think about.

After the Olympics in Sydney all of the boats went to auction. I heard that many boats went for under $3,000AU. Just a tip from a Mate in Oz and I thought that you might like plenty of time to save a few quid and have plenty of time to think about it.

Not often can you get a classy dinghy for just a song.

Warren.

[ 07-10-2005, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[bamamick]

John, I have no idea what a Europe costs, but a new Finn hull, with ONE mast and ONE sail, should run you around $12-14K. I emphasize that this is one rig and sail because you know that Big Ben and the other Finn greats have probably $30K invested in their gear. For a 15' long single hander.

How much does a bloody 49er cost? I couldn't even begin to guess. The Yngling. The Star. Olympic class boats just cost more compared to non-Olympic classes of relative size and character. If I had to guess the reason why I would it's because they ARE Olympic class boats. They've got a captured market.

Oh, by the way. Recently there was a USED Dragon on the IDA web site for around $100K! USED! People always talk about how much wealthy people pay to play with their toys, but man, guys like myself, on the low end of things, are having to pay higher and higher prices, or get into smaller boats, all the time.

Mickey Lake

[Wild Wassa]

I thought that I saw that the 'state of the art' 49er was $58,000AU, exactly the same price as a 'state of the art', 10mm end grain Balsa, Fremantle 505.

Don't hold me to those prices though. I tried to look up a price, but they are in the category of, if you have to ask, they are out of reach. I got that impression from Bethwaite's site.

10 year old boats are only $7,000AU.

Warren.

[ 07-12-2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Meerkat]

London Dinghy classes:

Slightly Dinghy
Mildly Dinghy
Properly Dinghy
Around the bend Dinghy
Member of Parliament
HM Government

[Wild Wassa]

HM Government will be paying for them Meer, so it is a top of the food chain issue.

It seems to me to be very appropriate to include the International Mirror Class in the dinghy classes at the London Olympics. I can't think of a more appropriate British boat. A Heron, that would work well, as well ... and let's not forget an Enterprise.

International 18ft'ers they are big on the World scene. They are slippery enought to be in the Olympics.

Warren.

[ 07-12-2005, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[igatenby]

Then there is the Olympic excitement class...... the Tornado......

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Humm.

The Finn is the only boat that selects itself. BUT I would like to see the class sailed as a strict one design, with boats supplied by the host nation (see below)

I would like to see:

A three man keelboat; ideally a Dragon. The 6 metre, being a development class would be just too expensive. Dragons are expensive but they have a reasonable life expectancy in Club racing. What on earth is a Yngling?

A two man development dinghy, ideally an International 14.

A two man one design, supplied by the host nation (don't really care what - any modern design)

A singlehanded development class, ideally the International 10 sq metre canoe, development wing.

A team racing event, in strict one designs, supplied by the host nation. Team racing has never appeared in Olympic sailing and I think it should - it's something that "less marine-minded" nations" can do. Which class? Fireflies, why not - they are the team racer of choice in the UK.

Team racing puts a premium on manoevrability rather than outright speed and as such it adds a dimension that the very fast but unhandy boats lack.

My idea is to include two strict one design classes, to give sailors from poorer nations a fair crack of the whip, along with two traditional Olympic boats which are photogenic (Finn and Dragon) and two long established "hairy" development classes (I-14 and I-10C) to give something for the advanced sailors to get their teeth into, with some trickle down effect.

Competitors should draw straws each morning for the strict one designs.

[ 07-12-2005, 06:38 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Craig-Bennett ]

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

I'd like to see the International 2.4 included - possibly as a one-design, possibly for team racing.

Photogenic, relatively cheap, suitable for disabled and able-bodied in the same race - head to head competition with no quarter given or asked.

I like the idea of the development versions of the IC10. An aysmetric on one of those just has to be good - at least for the spectators.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

That is a very good idea.

A class where disabled sailors can compete on level terms with the able bodied is a fine notion, and they would indeed make excellent team racers.

Shall we start lobbying?

[Wild Wassa]

Start lobbying? ... start saving to afford the tickets. The price of the tickets will exclude many. $60,000AU bought one, a very good seat at the athletics. $600AU just for the openning ceremony that lasted 3 hours.

It will be closer to this and could possibly include the International Sailing Canoe if the Association keeps up their lobbying. The lobbying for inclusion in Athens was huge but funds were tight.

Women’s Windsurfer - Mistral
Women’s One Person Dinghy - Laser Radial
Women’s Two Person Dinghy - 470
Women’s Keelboat - Yngling
Men’s Windsurfer - Mistral
Men's One Person Dinghy - Laser
Men's Two Person Dinghy - 470
Men’s Keelboat - Star
Multihull - Tornado
Skiff - 49er
Heavyweight Dinghy - Finn

There is no need to change a perfect group of boats that well represents the best of the dinghy classes (except for the Laser). Although I would like to see the 505 included (rather than the Mens 470) as the boat's design and performance is very classy.

As much as we like the Firefly when a boat isn't sailed across the board (or around the world) the boat will not be accepted. Where as the Contender is well sailed Internationally.

I wasn't joking about the RC yachts being included. They are not toys. The RC Skippers do everything bar hop in them.

Warren.

[ 07-12-2005, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Wild Wassa]

These are the classes to be sailed in Beijing. The Mistrals and the Women's single handed Laser Radial have been dropped following Athens. The host nations are the ones who determine what is to be included. I was a bit surprised that the Chinese didn't crucify sailing even more, not being a sailing nation.

Multihull Open: Tornado
Keelboat Women: Yngling
Keelboat Men: Star
Double-handed Dinghy Open: 49er
Double-handed Dinghy Women: 470
Double-handed Dinghy Men: 470
Single-handed Dinghy Open: Finn
Single-handed Dinghy Men: Laser

Warren.

[ 07-12-2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[John Meachen]

My comment earlier in this thread about the cost of a mast for a Europe was intended to hint that for many countries funding a sailing campaign would be prohibitively expensive.I would say that the current cost of a Finn is not too bad considering that the boats last for such a long time and the rig has probably undergone more development that any other class.If the desire to go fast is there,an arms race results unless there are rules to prevent it.It must detract from the value of an Olympic event if the cost of competing excludes a large proportion of the world.
I see the list of boats for China includes the Finn as an open class rather than specifying the gender of the sailor.Has anybody ever seen a female Finn sailor?On the other hand,the likely wind strength at the regatta venue is 5-8mph typically....

[Hwyl]

Remember when they introduced the Women's 470 but forgot to specify the gender of the existing 470 class, so the U.K sent two women's teams. They did not do well though.

The Europe was a snapshot of the Moth, I'd like to see a new snapshot. Take a foiling moth and build a one design out of it.

It would be nice to see a wood boat, there was that skiff featured in WB about a year and a half ago.

[bamamick]

That boat from WBM WAS a pretty cool boat. I think that I saw where they had a clinic/midwinters regatta this past year attended by around ten boats.

Anyone know what we are talking about? Pretty sporty looking little single-hander?

Mickey Lake

[Hwyl]

It's the Swift Solo (AKA 24 1/2 er) http://www.single-handedskiffs.com/pages/453349/index.htm really high content page took about 5 minutes on my DSL link.

http://www.single-handedskiffs.com/images/501_Danielle_best.JPG

[bamamick]

That's it. That's a fine looking boat.

One thing that I did notice, though. Those guys are paying more for their sails than I paid for my new Dragon sails. That main costs a good bit more than a new Finn sail. A lot more.

I'd like to see what one of those little rascals, all-up would cost. But like they say, it's comparable to a 29er and that kind of thing. Cool stuff.

Oh, yeah. Great web site. One of the best I've ever seen.

Mickey Lake

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

ISAF Announcement on 2012 sailing (http://www.sailing.org/default.asp?PID=15381)

No classes promulgated as of yet.