Help I have fallen for a F@#$*GLASS boat

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Been doing a little reading about the Nor'Sea 27
LOA 27', 31' with bowsprit
LWL 25'
Beam 8'
Draft 3'10"
Displacement 8,100 IBS.
Ballast 3,100 IBS.
Sail Area 394 so. ft
Man this little boat sounds like the perfect DREAM boat for me. Blue water capable Trailer Sailor with many cirumnavigations in her history to quiet my wander lust. She is beautifully made sweet lines great cabin layout, Tabernacle mast to go anywhere, nice Yanmar 2GM 20-hp diesel. Extremely stable in rough seas. Then it hit me even though the hull LOOKED like a fine lapstrake wooden hull and the cabin is filled with enough mahogany to make a Lexus owner envious its a Freaking GLASS boat. NOT ONLY IS SHE F@#$*GLASS SHE IS EXPENSIVE !!!!! $120 K :eek: Is there a compatible Wooden vessel that has all theses wonderful qualities and can be built by me as beautiful I especially like the Aft Cabin layout

http://www.norseayachts.com/images/Photo03a-500x384.jpg

http://www.norseayachts.com/images/Photo51-500x358.jpg
http://www.norseayachts.com/images/Photo47-500x718.jpg

[ 12-14-2002, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Donn]

Hang it in your ear, Jose. You don't need it.

[Memphis Mike]

Joe, have you ever read Michael Ruhlman's
"Wooden Boats?" You should and pay close
attention to what Gannon and Benjamin have
to say about the performance of wood vs. the
performance of fiberglass on the high seas.
Concerning fiberglass, their comments are
not very favorable.

BTW, if you want to see a thing of beauty,
check out Rebecca in WB168.

If you would like to know how she was built,
read the book I suggested.

[ 12-14-2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Mike This Nor'Sea is one OVER BUILT little glass boat

The Nor'Sea hull is hand laminated in one piece -- not two halves glued together. The lamination schedule calls for a minimum of seven layers of alternating 1 1/2 oz, mat and 18 oz. roving on the sides, increasing to nine layers at the waterline, 11 layers at the garboard and 22 layers at the stem, keel, and stern. Thicknesses vary from 5/16" on the side to 3/4" at the keel. Chainplate areas are heavily reinforced. This is approximately the same layup schedule as used on much larger "cruising" boats, i.e., Columbia 41, Tartan 50, Valiant 40, etc.

The lapstrake construction requires approximately 40% more labor hours in layup than a smooth hull. The benefits obtained -- much greater rigidity and strength, and a dryer ride in a choppy sea --· are well worth the extra cost and effort.

Nor'Sea owners can take pride and comfort in knowing they are staking their safety on one-of the strongest hulls ever built.

THE BALLAST

Nor'Sea ballast is all lead, not iron or iron punchings cast in resin as is most common. Lead is much more dense than iron, resulting in a more stable, stiffer sailing boat.

THE DECK

At Nor'Sea, the designers and builders (and most customers) are aware that more than a few cruising boats have come to heavy-weather grief due to weaknesses in the deck and cabin structure. At Nor'Sea, we believe the deck and house must be immensely strong. Using a fiberglass and wood composite construction, the cabin top is 1 1/4" thick; the decks are 1" thick; and the cabin sides are 3/4" thick.

The Nor'Sea's cockpit is expressly designed for offshore safety. It will not hold enough water to cripple the boat's sailing ability. In addition, two 1 1/2" drains are built in. All deck hardware and ports are solid bronze or stainless, NOT plastic or diecast aluminum alloy. All cleats, rails, etc, are through bolted with stainless backing blocks.

[ishmael]

Joe,

Though I've never seen one these boats in the flesh, I've always thought they were really nice -- for glass. I'm no purist. I own both glass and wood boats, and have most of my life. This one is truly finast kind. At 120 K it ought to be!

A few questions (and we all know you're dreaming at this point, but that's okay), do you really want to trailer a boat like this, and how much? Major tow vehicle!, and not something you'll likely want to trailer for a daysail. Though offshore capable, is it really what you want for the coastal cruise, with the family?

As with any boat, what is the intended use? There are lots of boats, both wood and glass, that are easier to trailer, or that could be kept at a mooring, that might do what you imagine, for a bunch less money.

In answer to your original question, I'm not familiar with any designs in wood that are similar.

Jack

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ish I got a Nissan Xterra with 7,000 lbs towing capacity so that's not the problem.
http://www.norseayachts.com/images/photo36-500x360.jpg
I think the this boat is the PERFECT boat for me since I can store her in the barn and moor her for 8 months or longer. The small size and being trailerable, single hand sailing and spacious cabin layout and the blue water capable is just the perfect size boat for me. I have a lot of wanderlust in my heart and the dream of sailing down to the islands or further or even just sailing up the Hudson KNOWING she is just as capable of sailing to Fiji is the boat for me. The idea that I could either sail up to my friends home in Nuburryport, MA, OR trailer her up there and Then sail her WITH my friend makes for many options. I just think she is the perfect size and ability for me as a DREAM boat and I just love e her lines and the aft cabin layout. Just Christmas wishing that's all but its nice to know that this particular Glass boat fulfills most of my requirements hmmm now to figure out where to get $120 K LOL and Still pay all my bills LOL

[ 12-14-2002, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Todd Bradshaw]

I love wooden boats, but firmly believe that the "If it ain"t wood, it's no good" mentality is just plain ignorant. I've known a couple of people who own N.S. 27s over the years and they are indeed very nice boats.

[Mike Vogdes]

If you are serious about this boat then check out yachtworld.com , there are two of them for sale for a lot less than 120k.

I managed to weasel my way onboard one a couple years ago on the Chesapeake and was very impressed. A young couple from Fla. owned her and they where spending there summer vacation on the Chesapeake and trailering back home. They where in love with that boat.

BTW there's more wood on that boat than on some wood boats...

[Wild Dingo]

BUT... Joe... whaddabouddamountain???...

you LIVE on a flamin mountain mate!!! gettin that sucker UP there when your done muckin about is gonna cause some seriassheartstoppinheartpumpinflaminpuppymakin moments for all three of yer :eek:

Take it easy
Shane

[ishmael]

And to tow this sucker much, it's gonna take something other than an X-terra, even a souped one with towing package. It's gonna need a torquey v-8, with good brakes. Unless I haven't been following the x-terra adds too close -- which is definately true.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

The Xterra will get the boat up in 4WD LOW very SLOW up my mountain The Nissan Super Charged V-6 is probably the best V-6 ever made. But this is still a pipe dream trust me if I had the $120K + the $7,000 for the trailer I don't think I would worry about buying a good used V-8 Pick up hell Donn's van would work. Is it for sale :D

[Gary Bergman]

way overpriced boats...

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Gary Bergman:
way overpriced boats...So give me an appropriate priced boat of similar construction. Even better if I could build it out of wood?

[ 12-14-2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Wild Dingo]

Can we please have a bit of a reality check here??!!! :rolleyes:

Displacement 8,100 IBS and your gonna drag it UP A FLAMIN MOUNTAIN BEHIND A WHAT??... Xterra? Nissan Super Charged V-6????? ...not flamin likely sunshine!! unless that mountain is only a mountain in name and not a mountain as I know a mountain... sorta steep gradients gravel road/track incline of 45 to 60 degrees or better trees along tight width of road/track bends yarda yarda... nope aint gonna happen in that while draggin that!! :eek:

Joe mate?? Hello Joe?? Yer there buddy??? Earth to Joe??? :rolleyes: tongue.gif

Doncha jest luv dreams?!! ayup!! :D ;)

Take it easy
Shane

[ 12-14-2002, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

SHHHHHHHH Dingo, Be quiet don't wake me up

[Wild Dingo]

I feel in the mood :D ... okay revised the above...

Lets see 8000lb boat dragged behind Nissan superduperwhaptidoo V6... okay can see that... gettin the thing UP a mountain side... mmmm on yer own I can see yer having a go... shite I would!! your car your boat your flamin mountain? Bloody oath mate let me at er!! :D

BUT with the lovely missus and hoon abourd? nope... I can just hear it now at the bottom of the mountain track/driveway... "oh honey just grab the littlun and walk up will yer?"... yeah right she and the hoon is ratty p****d and tired and your askin her to take the hoon and walk UP A MOUNTAIN???

Or better yet!!... "Honey get out an push will yer we need some more traction... yeah yeah littun can get out an help too no worries sweets... now DONT let her slide... whatever yer do dont let her slide... yer hear me woman?!!" after a day sailin?? HA!!!

Strewth Id love to see her face!!! :eek: WHAT A FLAMIN HOOT!!!. :D .. long as its your missus that is... mine? cripes mate if I suggested anythin like that Id be deader than a dead dogs donger in a flash!! And my possumpoop is the gentlest easiest goin sheila a fella could find... this would turn ever her into a raving spittle flying wild eyed maniacal screemin banshee!!

Ohhh I can see some sparks aflyin aroun the old Joeboy Mountain tonight!! :D

Take it easy
Shane

[Bruce Taylor]

Fine-looking boat, Joe. Who cares what it's made of? Well, for 120k, I guess I care...you can get a lot of wood for that money! But it's a nice boat, alright. As the others have said, you wouldn't want to launch it for a Sunday outing, but if you knew, going in, that this would be trailerable "with difficulty," as the WoodenBoat designs books put it, and you're o.k. with that...what's the problem?

But, just as an exercise, let's try to think of a wooden alternative. Give us your wish list...capabilities, trailer-weight, LOA, preferred displacement, rig, # of berths, appearance etc. As long as we're daydreaming...

[Chris Coose]

Joe,
If your world is open to FG cruisers, you will find that you can get a lot of boat for a little money.
It can become more like shopping for a used car of any type(FG)as opposed to shopping for a specific classic(wood).
How are those fiberglass planks fastened anyways?

[Ron Williamson]

Bayfield 25
1/10 the money(trailer included)and you can tow it.
Solid,seaworthy,single-hander.
R

[Mrleft8]

Why do people build glass boats with faux lapstrakes? Seems kinda like painting tiger stripes on a cow....

[Donn]

Originally posted by Mrleft8:
Why do people build glass boats with faux lapstrakes? Seems kinda like painting tiger stripes on a cow....Because it looks better

http://www.stur-deeboat.com/images/doryhome.jpg

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

But, just as an exercise, let's try to think of a wooden alternative. Give us your wish list...capabilities, trailer-weight, LOA, preferred displacement, rig, # of berths, appearance etc. As long as we're daydreaming I want the Nor'Sea 27 in wood - all her specs are perfect and she is built dam well. Have I mentioned I love her cabin layout and the details built in especially the aft cabin smile.gif

Mrleft8
Why do people build glass boats with faux lapstrakes? Seems kinda like painting tiger stripes on a cow... Why do wooden boats have lapstrakes ??- some people believe that the lapstrakes provide a better wetted surface for better handling that lapstrakes provide a stronger boat - I think the same can be said for fiberglass lapstrakes. This boat is built so well that if lapstrakes were not needed they wouldn't. The lapstrake construction requires approximately 40% more labor hours in layup than a smooth hull. The benefits obtained -- much greater rigidity and strength, and a dryer ride in a choppy sea --· are well worth the extra cost and effort.

[ 12-15-2002, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Bruce Taylor]

Why do people build glass boats with faux lapstrakesIf we'd accept plastic for the great material it is, then maybe it wouldn't be embarassed to be itself. I've got a Furpy-Gurp powerboat with the pseudo-lapstrake look, and the poor thing is just ashamed of what it is. It reminds me of Michael Jackson.

[Gary Bergman]

Basically, you are in love with what is known as a 'cult' boat. Nor'seas,Baba's, flying Dutchman,Tashiba,Pandas, all cult boats. prices stay inflated by cult interest and fascination.Many more, still the same

[stan v]

Thought I'd jump in here since you scabs have invaded my domain, that would be fibergl***. Joe, you're not gonna be trailering this beast. You will find a marina with storage for the winter. Boats this size should remain in her slip, ready to sail at a moments notice, then stored inside during the off season. You don't want to deal with the "I've got to hook, then trailor, then launch...sail, then hook, load boat, then trailor drill every time. Or, you do what you really want to do, and move to Texas. We have no off season here. Let me know when you're coming, I'll help you find a place on the other side of Houston. :D

[Gary Bergman]

due to the fact that there is squat for wood and just fiberglass here, take this to non-boat related....better yet, take it to good old boat magazine, this is exactly what they are in business about :rolleyes:

[ 12-15-2002, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Gary Bergman ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Oyster & Dingo - The goal here is not the trailer ability of this boat but the fact that it IS Trailerable. As I said I would more than likely if I had the fortune to have such a boat keep her moored. I'm not thinking of such a boat as a day sailor in the water and out the same day - that would be dumb. But for the rare occasion I need to trailer her I could. Lets say God forbid smile.gif I have to move to Stans land of big egos, big hair and big boobs. I wouldn't have to either sell the boat, as many people do, or pay $$$ for a rigger to transport the vessel. With this type of boat all I would have to do is RENT a big V8 Pick up truck and haul her to my new home. The big selling point to me is not just the ability if I had to - to trailer her its all the options. So lets get off the trailer hitch and someone come up with a similar wooden boat built as well and laid out as well as this beauty smile.gif .

Ron Williamson The posted 12-15-2002 08:57 AM *** ** ** ** * * **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bayfield 25

Nice boat but no whereas nice as the Nor no aft cabin and ewwww the 1970 prefab salon and V berth yuck no wonder its 1/10 the price it shows.

Gary Bergman if the Nor'seas a cult being built as well as she is then dam it that's one cult I want to belong to. You still have yet to come up with a suitable wooden boat or set of plans that would suit the same needs

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Gary Bergman:
due to the fact that there is squat for wood and just fiberglass here, take this to non-boat related....better yet, take it to good old boat magazine, this is exactly what they are in business about :rolleyes: No offense ahh what the hell a little offense coming your way Gary - But what have you added to this thread?? It is the very concept that this is such a well designed fiberglass ( there I said it smile.gif ) boat that I asked the question - IS THERE ANYTHING COMPARABLE IN A WOODEN HULL. I say hull because that's just about all that is glass on this boat the interior is all wood the rail is wood a lot of the deck bright work is wood. As it was said before there is more wood in this fiberglass boat than most wooden boats. So unless you have something of value to add to this thread - LIKE A COMPARABLE WOODEN BOAT then maybe you don't need to respond. By the way it was an article in good old boat magazine which made me want to look into this particular vessel - so there

Gary last time I checked this section was Misc Boat related not Misc NON FIBERGLASS boat related tongue.gif

[On Vacation]

I am sorry, Joe. I didn't comment on the boat at all but only commented on the ability to trailer it with what you had said about your vehicle. I am truely sorry to have mispoke, Sir. I hope that clears up my reply. I will go back and reword my response.

[imported_Krueg]

Hi Joe,

I have a little bit of experience with this boat as my dad owns one. I've sailed her many times out of Dana Point, Ca. They are very well built boats. It is the aft cockpit model, as opposed to the one with the small (maybe two kids) aft cabin model. She sails pretty nicely. Not a speed demon, but can be quite fun. She's a initially a little bit tender, due to the narrow beam necessary for trailering, but stiffens up quite a bit after she heels a bit. Of course, too much heel does no good and one reef in the main does wonders. The Norsea does have the feel of a bigger boat being heavily built. As for the faux lapstrake looks, it's of course a matter of opinion.

There's another Norsea slipped right next to my little fishing boat out here in Dana Point which has the aft cabin. I think you give up a lot of fore cabin space for little benefit, my opinion.

As for the trailering aspect, If you had planned on launching just for a day sail I don't think this is the boat for you. Admittedly, I've never set her up launching, but from what I understand it's not the easiest thing. Also, the X-terra is not enough to tow this boat, it is heavy. You could pull it on level ground, maybe even up a slight grade, but it would beat the hell out of your SUV, and would you be able to stop it? Especially going downhill. I think you would need at least a 3/4 ton and better yet a 1 ton truck to pull it well.

Oh yeah, there is a book about a guy with a wife, two kids and the mother-in-law who sailed one through the caribbean and across the Atlantic. I'll try to remember the title, but it was an interesting read.

My Dad bought his a few years ago. It's 20 years old or more, but it was impeccably maintained and looks almost new. I believe he paid well south of $100k, so look around.

I do like these boats, and if you ever had the hankering to go to say... England, you could. My opinion, take it for what it's worth (that is to say, what you paid for it).

Eric

[Bruce Taylor]

IS THERE ANYTHING COMPARABLE IN A WOODEN HULLNot that I've found. It's the aft cabin that's got me stumped (that and the 8' beam). I've been through my stack of study plans and found nothing similar. I've seen several other small furpygurp cruisers with aft cabins, but nothing in wood. (Even the other furpies fall short in several departments).

If I were paying that kind of money for a boat I think I'd get something a little bigger and keep it at the slip. Then, when I move to Texas to sleep on Stan's sofa-bed and guzzle Lone Star while watch his big-screen TV in my undershirt, I just hire somebody to sail the boat down (assuming I don't do it myself).

But I certainly see the appeal of this boat. There is a lot to be said for transporting overland to a desirable launch site (drive down to Florida, and then it's off to the Bahamas).

[stan v]

Bruce, I hope you don't mind while you're here my wife walking around in her t-shirt, she does have large boobs. tongue.gif

[Donn]

Yes...one of them is especially large...and drives a pickup. :D

[stan v]

A wife with 3 large boobs? Life is good. ;)

[Bruce Taylor]

:D

[Gary Bergman]

norsea's price is the problem, not its ability for the dollar. As for the rest, I still maintain that this is a wooden boat forum. Plastic boat manufacturers have nothing to do with your ability to use this forum, Wooden Boat does.This forum has culturally went to shit with a lot of newer members topic matter in the last year. See ya, luv yer fiberglass.... :D

[ 12-15-2002, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Gary Bergman ]

[stan v]

I disagree. A comparison between wood and glass, or aluminum/steel can only benefit the forum. Informed decisions should be based on all the facts that can be gathered. You'd be surprised how many glass boats are owned by the members of this forum. Simply discussing a boat building material that is not wood does not diminish this board's contribution to wooden boats.

[Chris Coose]

This thread has had no wood boat value.
I'm kind of surprised that Joe brought it here.
It may have boat value and worthy of discussion but preferably on the FGBoat Forum.
I don't give a rat's ass if you think I am a wood snob.
I'll bring further discussion to the argument thread if you'd like.

[Dave Fleming]

Hmmm, 8000 lbs total boat weight? I don't think so. And Dhowman that one in the photo is being towed bye a dually, that is a one ton pickup, dollars to donuts.
And heavens not an auto and better yet with 4 wheel drive for the slippery grassy ramps. So perhaps you need first, a newer pickup with stick and 4 wheel drive and then the boat and trailer.
Any real specs from the boat maker on approx. tongue weight too? I live within walking distance from a boat ramp into San Diego Bay and if you want some spontaneous chuckles just walk or drive down to the parking lot bye the ramp and watch the antics of the folks loading and unloading their various types of boats. From smallish sail types to the big towering things that scare the shite out of me when I am behind one on the freeway and he's doing 70 plus ( yeah right the speed limit is supposed to be 55 for trailers and big rigs), and I am waiting my chance to pull out and pass this nimrod before some other nimrod decides that the speed limit of 65 should be followed and slows down and the cloud of bluish smoke comes off the boat haulers tires as he slams on his brakes and that damn 3 story Bayliner fishtails all over 2 lanes of freeway!

[ken mcclure]

Second on the Bayfield.

And you may want to look around for a Flicka. Trailerable (around 6,000 lbs), and blue-water capable.

[holzbt]

Joe- In "The Nature Of Boats" pgs. 58-64 Dave Gerr writes about some double enders that are quite similar to your dream boat (minus the aft cabin). One is 19' and another is 30'. It is possible that he has other similar designs available.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

WOW never thought I would get a bunch of wild hairs up peoples butt in this post. For the record I have 2 wooden boats and 2 fiberglass I prefer wooden OBVIOUSLY. I truly was interested in anyone knowing of a comparable wooden vessel that met this particular boats criteria BECAUSE I WOULD PREFER A WOODEN BOAT. I also would prefer a dream boat that I could build or one that cost way less than this one - Although trying not to be a snob here because financially I have had to eat a lot of crow lately - 3-4 years ago an investment of this type of boat would have been within my means.

It strikes me as odd that such a well thought out and crafted boat dose not exist in wood or wooden plan form. It leads me to question why hasn't someone designed one yet. Hello mmd ??

Chris Coose writes
This thread has had no wood boat value.
I'm kind of surprised that Joe brought it here.
It may have boat value and worthy of discussion but preferably on the FGBoat Forum.
I don't give a rat's ass if you think I am a wood snob.
I'll bring further discussion to the argument thread if you'd like. DUDE I want it in WOOD don't ya get it :eek: :confused: Its ignorant for you to say that it has no boat value. Think about if a vessel of this type could be designed cold molded, carvel or strip in wood would it be a good design I think so. I think the idea that it hasn't been done warrants investigation I would buy the wooden plans to such a craft.

And Gary Bergman you wrote
norsea's price is the problem, not its ability for the dollar. As for the rest, I still maintain that this is a wooden boat forum. Plastic boat manufacturers have nothing to do with your ability to use this forum, Wooden Boat does. This forum has culturally went to shit with a lot of newer members topic matter in the last year. See ya, luv yer fiberglass....
Well, that just close minded and dumb. Geeze and you took the time to edit that WOW :eek:

[whb]

For what its worth, I own a aluminum boat. It is the only boat I own. It is presently the only boat I can afford, because I already own it.

Now the dream... ah that's another question.

I like wood and I like boats. If I can put them together I will be happy. But I like them separate too and regardless of what stuff my future boats are made of I am learning so much from this forum. I have trouble with stepping on someone's dream because it may not fit a set of rules. Other than common sense and politeness (themselves rules) I hate it when someone suggests more rules or limitations.

Howard

[Wild Dingo]

Fully agree Howard! too flamin right! enough with imposing more rules!... we can {if we choose of course} possibly maybe even learn something by having these sorts of discussions here... even if its a bit about fibreglass {egad! I said the f word!!! well shoot me buttons!} boats... still worth reading and looking at for edumakashum I mean

Joe... mate the idea of someone trying to tow that thing with a nissan xterra scared the shite out of me! let alone going up and down a mountain... anyway you seem... but Im not sure about yer sincerity Joeboy on the mountaintop but you appear to be muttering something about... maybe wanting the same thing in wood right?... no sweat!! :cool:

Now why the blazes didnt yer say so? sheesh you fellas are always muckin about! :rolleyes:

Betwinxt all us fellas and sheilas here we should be able to come up with something!!

Okay what about Paul Gartside?

Design #103
http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/27cut.jpg

Stats are as follows...
Specifications for 27 ft cutter, Design #103 Length on deck 27 ft 0 in Beam 9 ft 4 in
Length waterline 24 ft 3 in Draft 4 ft 11 in
Displacement 12,500 Ballast 3900 lbs
Sailing rig Cutter Sail area 475 sq. ft
Fresh water 68 litres Fuel capacity 125 litres
Building time 5000 hours Skill level High
Price $550 Canadian funds Design #103 6 Sheets

Okay fails the trailer test I guess... displacement up to 12500... yeeech imagine tryin to trailer that sucker!!! beautiful but not for a trailer...

next?... Okay same designer

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/27canoe.jpg

stats...
Specifications for 27 ft cruising canoe, Design #102 Length on deck 27 ft 1 in Beam 7 ft 1 in
Length waterline 22 ft 9½ in Draft 4 ft 3 in
Displacement 3323 lbs Ballast 1400 lbs
Sailing rig Sloop Sail area 266 sq. ft
Fresh water 90 litres Fuel capacity 50 litres
Building time 2000 hours Skill level Intermediate
Price $400 Canadian funds Design #102 6 Sheets

fits in most areas but smaller beam at 7ft 1in? lets try again shall we?

Flamin eck mate look yerself at Gartsides homepage catalogue (http://www.gartsideboats.com/cat.php)

I have a personal penchant for some of Pauls designs... beautiful!!

Okay so where else shall we wander?...

SCRUFFIE!!! (http://www.scruffie.com/) ...yeah an Aussie one! :D cheep as chips for yous fellas!!

http://www.scruffie.com/graphics/rought/scintilla_cabin_draw.gif

Thats the Scintilla
Scintilla Voyager
Full Cabin
Version

Hull kit with full cabin Including ballasted keel $ 9416 thats what Joe?... 4600US?? frieght may add a few more bob but cheeper than $120000!!!

Okay the blurbs long... so you will just have to read it for yerself... end story we miss on the length... damnation sunshine!... lets go again shall we??

Try Dudley Dix (http://http://www.dixdesign.com/designs.htm) ... damn Im gettin blurrry in me old age...

Anyway could always contact a designer personally... numerous on this board and see what they can concoct for you... Im sure given the perameters they will come up with something! Just try to remember Joeboy on the mountain all boats are a compromise! :D

Actually I cant remeber is David or Alan Payne have a web site but theyre probably at the forfront of some of Aussies best designers... Mike Field may know

Now you fellas stop teasin ol JoeBoy on the mountain he caint elp it!!... an thats why ol Stan offered to bunk im down on his couch and feed im his chips and share is beer an all that... Joeboys really a texan from texarse he was just surplanted in New York as a babe in arms...sorta like what happened to superbaby zapped from Krypton to Earth that sorta thing... deep down hes texan all the way through and Stans his long lost bro!! :D

Take it easy
Shane

[ 12-16-2002, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[Meerkat]

I love Nor'Sea 27's. I've been aboard a few; would dearly love to own one. If you think they're expensive, price a Bristol Channel cutter - nearly $200,000 for 1' longer and about 4,000# heavier IIRC. Aft cabin outsells aft cockpit versions 8:1. The aft cabin was good enough for me when I was in one, would sleep two comfortably, and if one of the two is short, transversely even. The aft companionway also is a nice place to be sheltered from the weather while at the tiller. Also nice at anchor if you have small kids - put them in the stern and then the adults can stay up later up forward without disturbing them.

Nor'Sea hull/deck/ballast kits are available at _very_ nice prices reflecting the high cost of labor on interior fit out (1/3 the "sail-away" price?). (BCC hull/deck/ballast kits are a good value too, probably for much the same reason.)

The only real flaw in the Nor'Sea I'm aware of is that there's no place to put a propane locker. One of the ones I was on solved that problem by creating a locker for 2 tall bottles above deck to one side of the forward companionway. Very nice. He changed from kerosene to propane after the kerosene stove sooted up his overhead something fierce.

Factory recommends a vehicle capable of towing 10,000# They used to show a pic of a customized cadillac pulling one out of their factory though. Don't forget that that 8100# doesn't include fuel, water, spares, tools, clothes and the groceries. The factory trailer is (last time I looked) an ez-loader with brakes.

The faux lapstrake is said to make a difference in that the boats are claimed to be drier, track better and stiffer.

Bob Eeg, the proprietor of Nor'Sea Marine/Nor'Sea Yachts has a reputation (along with the court documents to prove it, which I have seen online) of questionable dealings with his customers some years back, so if you're serious, BE CAREFUL.

Nor'Sea also has the Montgomery brand now. Also well respected Lyle Hess designs in faux lapstrake.

FWIW, if you like Lyle Hess designs, his daughter still sells them I've heard. There was an article some years back in WB of a Talesian (sp?) class (29') done in CM by a woman carpenter.

[ 12-16-2002, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

Fiberglass vs. wood? Excuse me, but for some of us, it's not the material, it's the boating - you know, the reason you have the boat in the first place? There are days like today, when I've just reread "Trekka Around the World" again, when I would consider skin on frame or a hollowed out log if it would do the job!

Don't get me wrong, I like wooden boats. I think, for many people like me, that a wooden boat represents a way to incrementally build a boat rather then plunk down a large chunk of cash all at once for the 'glass one. Having said that, if I where to find a used 'glass or wood boat in good condition that would fulfill my dreams at a price I could aford, then it's "bon voyage" and i'll drop y'all an email from time to time. (Right now, I could afford $14.95, but only if I could make payments!)

For some, it's the building and the craftmanship and for others, it's the boating.

[Bruce Taylor]

Some good replies, here. Meerkat, you're making a lot of sense.

Dingo, you're turning into a living encyclopedia of designs...now, find the poor lad a sea-going boat with an aft cabin and 8' beam (8' being the limit for trailering w/out a permit). I tried, yesterday, thumbing through my small collection of study plans, but I fetched up on the aft cabin requirement.

As for the faux lap...Dave Gerr (who regards wood as the best all-round material for making boats -- and supplies the data to back up his opinion) writes about moulding laps in furpygurp:

"A nifty trick that can be played with single-skin glass hulls is to mold in stringers. All this means is that they build the hull with ridges or joggles to make it more resistant to bending, just like corrugated cardboard. One of the most pleasing ways to do this is to mold a fiberglass hull that looks like lapstrake wood planking. Obviously, there's no reason a glass hull has to be built to look lapstrake, but this approach will make the hull much stronger and stiffer in one shebang--no adding frames or stringers, no sandwich, and no high-tech fibers. It is, however, more difficult for the builder to lay up..."

[ 12-16-2002, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[gunnar I am]

Originally posted by Gary Bergman:
This forum has culturally went to shit with a lot of newer members topic matter in the last year. :D Basil!! Come quick!! This looks like a job for Shitbusters!! :D

[mmd]

No problem, Joe. I can whip up a custom design for you whenever you are ready. Figure about 10% of the cost of building and you will be in the right ballpark. Market the design for me and make your new boat available for interested parties to look at and I'll kick back a commission for every set of plans sold. I can design it for CM, strip, lapstrake, carvel, FRP, aluminium; hell, I'll even design it for concrete though I won't like it.

Just don't let anyone take the lines off'n it! :D

[ 12-16-2002, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: mmd ]

[DaBoss]

Emily from George Buehler is 30 feet, some 10,000 lbs displacement and 8'2" beam and 4'6" draft. And she's made of wood. Not built to trailer, but a nice boat. Mr. B is not known for his attempts to save weight. It might could be built lighter and with thoughts and modifications to trailer more easily...........at 8'2" you might need a permit.

http://www.georgebuehler.com/georgeimages/Emily2by%20Henrik.jpg

Incidentally, that Nor'Sea is a great looking boat. Right now, If I came across an affordable non-wood sailboat that I could afford to get on the water with..............well, I'm with you Meerkat!

[ 12-16-2002, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: DaBoss ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Dingo there ya go mate some nice designs there not perfect but a good efforts having a blast looking at them I may even order a plan smile.gif

[ 12-16-2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Wild Dingo]

WHO SAYS GEORGES DESIGNS ARE S***??? ... WOULD YER LOOKIT THAT!!!... would yer just look at that fine little lady??!!... gorgeous... :cool:

oh errr whatwasat Joeboy on the mountaintop? :eek: ... well lookeere hes agonna go lookit some otherns!! an lookeere Joeboy Michael of the great frozen wastes has offered yer a great bargain on a seriassly personal custom design ...and Im bettin it will end up bein some seriassly cheeper than that one yer showed afor! :D {just gettin some practace in afor ah spek to anotha of me Hamerican mates! :cool: anyone ever tell you fellas that you talk weird as heck??!! :D }

Okay Paul Gartsides would have to be one of my favorite designers and I hope hes blushin like heck right about now!! :D

I reckon I could rustle up some more purdy designs for yer if I was of a mind to...

But ah aint so there!! tongue.gif

Take it easy
Shane

[stan v]

Hey WD 50, did you hear Joe is moving to Texas?

[Dave Fleming]

Dhowman, this is another one to perhaps think about.
I realize the photo could be bigger but if you d/l it and play with it in an image software package I am sure you can increase the size and pick out the numbers.
It is definitely narrow enough in the Beam O/A to be trailerable and the length is acceptable too.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid42/p019113b86a55466e258a806399e1a64e/fced2109.jpg

I have not checked the Motor Boating index at the Mother of all Maritime Links site for the volume it was published in but I'm thinkin' ye can do that just fine. Ya folla? ;)

PS: Site with some photos of one sailing. I have NO idea what language the site is in. It sure as hell ain't Brooklyese! :D
Maid of Endor (http://www.val-navtika.net/val43/RubrikeNovDec.htm#Maid)
And our host has the plans avaiable for $120.00 USD also.

[ 12-16-2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Matt Middleton]

Hey Joe- have you ever seen Fred & Bruce Bingham's designs? Here's Allegra, at length 24' and beam 8'.
http://www.boatdesigns.com/store/Html/Products/images/sail3.jpg
There's also Flicka at 20', and another 28' version that's too big to trailer (9'6" beam.)

You can see them all at Ken Hankinson's website: Allegra page (http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=allegra24.html&&cart_id=4221937_8890)

Have fun looking!
Matt Middleton

[Alan D. Hyde]

Two things, in addition to structural strength, are added by the "faux lapstrakes."

One would be improved rough water ability, just as with an actual lapstrake vessel. The other would be the air-cushion effect already mentioned above, that should work to minimize drag.

When Ray Hunt designed Brave Moppie, he was essentially using a similar design feature to obtain similar results.

Alan

[Bruce Taylor]

Hmm. Still no aft cabin.

Well, so much the better. It clutters up the cockpit. Joe, if you delete that little item from your wish list, all sorts of wooden possibilities open up.

Matt's contribtuion, Allegra24, comes pretty close, doesn't it?

Length on deck 24'0"
Length waterline 21'0"
Beam 8'0"
Draft 3'6"
Displacement 6,500 lbs.
Ballast 2,400 lbs.
Sail area (Masthead cutter) 374 sq.ft
Sail area (Gaff w/topsail) 422 sq.ft.
Headroom 6'3"
Fuel capacity 12 gals.
Water capacity 30-50 gals.
Sleeping capacity 4

[Meerkat]

I'd build an Allegra 24, but I keep hearing horror stories about how much work all that strip planking would be. OTOH, there's a guy up in Ontario, Canada who builds hulls for the Allegra to order, strip planked and epoxy sheathed... <sigh>

[sck1]

If trailering is only for very rare occasions, why limit yourself to an 8ft beam? Buy or rent a BIG truck with a diesel or V-10 to pull it with and get the permits if you ever want to move it overland. It seems to me that the number of suitable designs would be much larger.

Steve