U-571

[brian.cunningham]

The movie is on USA network right now.

Is that actually how they captured the German enigma coding machine?

[yorgie]

I've never seen the movie but if you were to swap the U.S. Navy for the Royal Navy you'd be seeing a much more accurate account.

[Phillip Allen]

It was depth-charged to the surface (break enough stuff in a sub and they would either surface or submerge permanently),it was then strafed with anti-personal ammo in an attempt not to sink it or set it on fire while keeping its sailors from mounting a defense with deck guns. A boarding party with specific instructions was then sent to try to recover the sub.

[WindHawk]

Well, it's close, but I think the Brit's were pretty mad about the film, since it was they, and not the US who captured the enigma. I guess Hollywood doesn't think the British make for good war-movie box office. I dunno about that, we had a pretty young British lass come to work in our office a few weeks ago, and the men are all swooning over her (on edit: self included). I think the accent has something to do with it. Nice to see them all bathin' regular again though! ;)

[ 12-06-2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: WindHawk ]

[martin schulz]

...crappy movie.

Just think about that huge swastika-emblem on the U-Boot Tower - Hollywood :mad:

And then having the enigma was only half the work.

[ 12-06-2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: martin schulz ]

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The whole story of "ultra" is complex and fascinating. Very briefly, the Enigma coding machine was built in several versions.

The Polish interrgence service had infiltrated the design team before the invasion of Poland; they passed their information to Britain and to France. It became necessary to eliminate knowledge of Enigma from France in the summer of 1940 and this was quite sucessful.

The Naval Enigma machine was more complex and it very fortunately a complete, intact, Naval Enigma machine was captured from a German submarine which surrendered to the Royal Navy in the summer of 1941. The submarine had scuttling charges set by the crew but these failed to detonate at once and an RN boarding team were able to secure the machine, fortunately un-observed by the U-boat's crew. These events took place before the United States entered the war.

[JeffH]

Originally posted by brian.cunningham:

Is that actually how they captured the German enigma coding machine?No. Not even close. It took several captures of several U-boats (all by Brits) and some very, very clever codebreakers (one brilliant Pole and many Brits) to fully break Enigma. Even then, it wouldn't stay broken, as the Germans changed things up frequently (whatever else you could say about them, they weren't fools).

For a fascinating account, read this (http://uboat.net/technical/enigma_breaking.htm)

The movie is "dedicated to those who risked their lives to capture Enigma (or some such thing)", otherwise complete fiction.

Jeff

[ 12-06-2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: JeffH ]

[Art Read]

Aw, we were just getting even with you Brits for claiming credit for breaking the sound barrier in your own movie! ;)

(Just "reverse" the controls, nothing to it...)

[ion barnes]

Some of the deciphering was with the aide of German army groups that were in the N Afica desrert, and did not maintain the rules for transmission, hence certain combinations turned up and fitted the puzzele

[martin schulz]

There was also the common practise of sending weather conditions first. So knowing this practise and getting the weather condition of a U-Boot in a known area helped to decipher the code as well.

I heard that although Konrad Zuse is considered to be the first one who built a computer (with air gap switches) the decoding of the enigma codes helped a lot in creating modern computers.

[bamamick]

I believe that there has been a British movie made in the last couple of years about the enigma machine. Kate Winslet is in it, which probably makes it worth the price.

Anyway, I didn't like U-571 very much, and I do remember that there was an outcry in Britain about the release of the film. As I recall, the publicist for the studio's comment was 'hey, it's just a movie'. Pretty intelligent remark, eh? I guess they figured no one remembered WWII?

Mickey Lake

[Don Z.]

Yeah, I mean, I can't believe they'd actually mess with Hollywood's tradition of faith to historical accuracies!

[Magwitch]

Did you see the one where Jack Hawkins plays General Montgomery in command of the 8th Army at Iwo Jima? I really liked the flag scene when the Union Flag (ours) was raised by a Sikh, a Gurkha, a Scot and Tony Newley.

IanW

[martin schulz]

Originally posted by martin schulz:
Just think about that huge swastika-emblem on the U-Boot Tower

[Don Z.]

Originally posted by martin schulz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by martin schulz:
Just think about that huge swastika-emblem on the U-Boot Tower</font>[/QUOTE]http://uboat.net/allies/personnel/photos//gallery2.jpg

Yeah, see... the real crests were much smaller, and offset to Starboard.

[martin schulz]

Originally posted by Don Z.:
Yeah, see... the real crests were much smaller, and offset to Starboard.And except the "Reichskriegsflagge" (Warflag) the Navy never used the Svastika. The Svastika as a symbol was never a traditional symbol for the armed forces anyway. And the Navy was even more traditional than other parts of the armed forces.