A famous English yacht. Claude Worths ,no less.

[John B]

I posted photos of this boat a couple of years ago but I only just'found' her today after she had been sold.
She's 1898 and famous for featuring in 'Yacht Cruising', a seminal English cruising guide and regarded as one of the books that ' kicked it all off'. Quantities of people going sailing/cruising for pleasure, I mean.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/pb6d89c253664424b083fb814761776f0/fc5bdd47.jpg

I had a chat with the owner and snapped a few pics.
She's American , with plans to sail her to Hawaii and then perhaps Seattle. " I know people in Seattle" I said.. LOL.
The boat is pich pine below the WL , teak above on closely spaced Oak frames which double up from amidships. The counter is chopped and she would have been flush decked originally. Still, she's alive as a boat eh.
Neat to see I say.

[John B]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p3145c57b0d79acd34008e5e4524deec9/fc5bdd40.jpg

[mmd]

Thanks for the pics, John. Nice to know that the old girl is still going strong.

[John B]

Bit of a shame that she's leaving though. June or so I'm told .
we have 'Maud' here too.

[martin schulz]

Very nice boat. I don't know - there is something special about those "english" boats. They always semm to look just right. Not too flashy, not too elegant - just right.

No wonder I can't be persuaded to sell mine in favour of a danish built working boat which everybody tells me will fit better in the Museum Harbour.

[TonyH]

Thanks John.

Yes, kinda sad to see yet another classic leaving the Antipodes and heading for the north - not enough boats like that down this way. I nearly cried when I heard Fritha had gone to the States - why oh why is it taking me so long to win the lottery?

By the by, what's happening to that "Toadstool" schooner/ Has she been sold yet?

Cheers

Tony

[John R Smith]

It certainly is good to see Tern II in such good shape. I was re-reading "Yacht Cruising" just last week, and was moved enough to visit Claude Worth's grave in Mawnan churchyard, where his son Tom is also buried.

Mawnan is a beautiful little grey Cornish church with a squat tower, which overlooks the entrance to the Helford River and the feared August Rock, which these days is marked with a buoy. The grave is marked with a plain but massive granite headstone, and it is a fitting resting place for two great sailors.

John

[Scott Rosen]

Thanks for the post and pictures.

[John B]

Interesting book ,isn't it John.

I don't know about Jersey Lily Tony. Haven't seen it about ,but now the subject has come up I'll no doubt have it overtake me on the motorway or some such event. ( it always seems to happen that way)

[Graeme Forrest]

After lurking on this forum for a couple of years and currently building a Golant Gaffer which I hope to launch "next summer" John B putting up this post has finally prompted me to register.
I sailed on this boat several times as a teenager in the late fifties, then had a good look over her about three years ago.In approx 58,59 she looked fairly similar to the photographs in "Yacht Cruising", still yawl rigged and basically flush decked.The end of the counter was cut off by that time and the mizzen was sheeted to a short boomkin. On deck she was pretty much as per the photograph in the book (oposite page 360 in my copy) the aft end of the companionway was about 6 to 8 inches higher, and I think the cockpit coamings may have been higher as well.
Down below in the focsle were two pipe cots and two fixed berths were us kids slept, the galley was aft alongside the companionway. In the saloon were two settee berths with lockers behind, no sign of the folding berths shown by Worth. Behind the companionway steps was a two cylinder Britt petrol/parafin engine,which at that time was quite reliable if you treated it right. The owner wrote to the Britt company in the UK giving a general description and the serial no. and asked if they could supply any information on it, the reply was that most of the company records of early engines were destroyed during WW2 but some of their older staff members thought from the serial no possibly built prior to WW1, was this the engine installed by Worth in 1912? She now has a Perkins 4/107 I think.
All of the ironwork detailed by Worth, reefing gear etc. was still there and worked well, as far as I am aware it is still in use.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Gosh, she does look good - wonderful to see her in proper seagoing condition after all that time -thank you, New Zealand!

I must have re-read "Yacht Cruising" annually since I was a student. 'Mirelle' (I must get round to posting a picture) actually has 'Tern II''s system for getting the dinghy aboard, using the staysail halyard and a handy billy hooked into an eye on the runner pendant, and it works remarkably well.

[John B]

Hello Graeme,
Nice to see you here.
Re Tern, One of the points the owner( Lynn) made to me was that all the ironwork... chainplates gammon band, mast fittings etc, were all original. Good quality stuff eh.

I have only ever seen Tern sailing about 2 or 3 times. the first was in the early 80's when we first got our boat. You know Maud is here too I suppose... ( did I say that earlier?) She was up at Greenhithe .You can see her from Herald Island best. She's sometimes moored at the bay just past Muddy bay at the bottom end of Waiheke so I've been wondering if they might have bought land down there..

PS.Must have another read and discover that dinghy system Andrew. I disconnect my peak halyard and pull the sabot up vertically with it.

[ 04-14-2003, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Graeme Forrest]

Hi John, Where is Tern? May go have a look at her over the weekend, also head for Herald Island to see if I can spot Maud.

[John B]

She's at Colin.... boatyard Totara rd Te Atatu nth. Lynn is the name of the owner. you can't miss her . Turn into Totara rd and the yard is just there on the right. I can't guarantee that Maud is there. It's a while since I was there and as I say I 've seen her at the bottom end more recently.
If you stood on the wharf facing Greenhithe , she's to the left, close to the point that leads to Salthouses.

[Graeme Forrest]

Ok thanks John, will go for a drive over the weekend, see what I can find.

[Stephen]

Anyone know the whereabouts of Tern IV these days?

[Jeremy Burnett]

My friend Ben Pester sailed Tern2 to New Zealand in 1953.We are anxious to connect with the present owner.Can any one give me a name and address.

[John B]

I'll see what I can do tommorrow Jeremy. I'm out that way again and I'll drop in and talk to the owner if she's there.
Graeme,Maud looks like she's permanently at the bottom end of Waiheke. The bay next to Orapiu. I took a photo but not much good. Too far in, king tides and falling tide, a ferry to meet, don't like digital zooms. Geez it shoaled fast. I wondered if she was sitting in her own excavated hole for a bit there.( fast U turn)LOL.
She looked a bit scuffy but they get that way from time to time.

[Graeme Forrest]

Yes I went out to Te Atatu and Greenhithe over Easter, met Lynn and had a good look over Tern(the basic hull and main mast remains but the deck layout and interior are changed considerably from what I remember),unfortunatly for Jeremy I did not get a full name and address.As you said no sign of anythig remotely like Maud at Greenhithe.

[John B]

Jeremy,Got an email address for you. I'll send it through to you direct.

[Jeremy Burnett]

John.Our E mail address is The.burnetts@virgin.net look forward to hearing.Thanks.

[John B]

Well this has been rewarding. Thanks to Jeremy I've now been in email contact with Ben Pester, who sailed this yacht to NZ in the '50's and Dominic, who plans to build a new Tern in America. I've been out and taken 40 photos or so for Dominic so I feel quite useful. Plus I now have a good collection of pics of what a circa 1900 English Yacht looks like. Loads of original fittings on this boat.
Satisfying is what it is.

[John B]

She's in the water. relaunched a week or so ago.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p4ac3a0d82d0c7065da026616e1e699fd/fb999b97.jpg
They're sorting out rigging and some motor problem.

[John B]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p2ba01c4a20fbda697978db89d21fe824/fb999b72.jpg

[Dave Fleming]

***ACES*** thread people but, can anybody tell me why the counter was amputated?
I have my own thoughts but am anxious to hear the real reason.

At your collective convenience, of course.

[ 07-22-2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[John B]

I think it was rotten Dave. and they chopped it off.

[Dave Fleming]

I was concerned about performance with less waterline length sailing on a tack.
Any comments on that?

[John B]

Yes. The boat will be slower than if she had her counter. :D Provided of course, that she used to put it in the water in the first place. I've seen a few counter sterned boats that don't because of the angle of the dangle... I mean counter..
You can tell a lot about a boat's speed when you look at angle of heel against the way the hull wave crests on the stern and it's easier to see on a counter stern boat.

But you know this Dave. What's your theory?

[John B]

a case in point. yes it's light, yes they were still shaking down, but look at this gorgeous boat going slow. All heel and no speed. overtrimmed( sail wise) for the angle they were sailing and the hull doesn't look trimmed properly either. How do I know... we sailed through them in a boat 1/2 their length and beat them over the line by a mile in a 25 mile race. shouldn't have happened.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid50/pb510161af4fd971f5fac98309ad6e865/fca92b10.jpg
every hull I've seen of this general type HATES being trimmed down by the bow. trim them with a sexy tilt to the stern and they put the counter in quick, extend W/L and go like they should.

[Dave Fleming]

Ayup, the answer I was looking for.
So TRIM is the key with those long counterstern types.
I freely admit.
I am not knowledgeable about such things.

Too little time out on *Mother* in sailing vessels,sigh.

So cutting off the supposedly rotten counter served no purpose but to shorten the length O/A.
And by no means helped the vessels performance.
Correct?

[John B]

That's my opinion Dave. It's not the first boat I've heard of it happening to either. You know, a place hard to get at in the ends, a wee deak leak a decade or 6 ago, a bit of rainwater held up at a frame or beam end and Voila! pestilential rot.and a pox on it too arrrrr. then you have all those fashionable short enders appearing in the 50's and 60's. whaddaya do? chop it off. I'd even go so far as to say that it was a common thing to happen around that period.

re the counter performance again, some would argue that a counter is not the sort of stern one should take offshore because of the way they can wag your tail in a following sea... but that's a different sort of performance... not particularly just speed related which is what I've been talking about.

[Dave Fleming]

Agreed about the seaworthiness part. I can see where a big whopping overhang, alone, would not be what I would want in a following sea.
Tracking ability is out of my realm of experience but it does seem as if it could be a hinderance to the helm.
Thanks John for putting up with and, answering with patience my amateurish questions.
It is appreciated.

[Noah]

The counter on my Hinckley isn't huge, but probably around 4-5 ft I would guess. She has lots of free board on her so it's a bit tought to put the rail down and get the stern in the water, but when it was blowing 30 the other day we did no problem. I also had 11 guys of the boat. On a broad reach we were doing around 7.5 knots with the weight forward, and as I moved a few people back we got going to around 8-8.3 knots. I would estimate the water line is around 28-30 ft, but I haven't put a tape on her just yet.

Getting the tail wet is the trick with these boats sometimes.

Thanks for the thread and pictures, they were great!

Noah

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Counter sterns vary:

1. A racer built to the International Rule or the Skerry Cruiser (square metre) or some other rules like that has a low, narrow, counter in order to gain waterline length when heeled.

2. Many fishing smacks in my part of Britain have low, wide counters to handle gear on; their predecessors, a couple of which are still about, had lute sterns for this reason.

3. Other than that, many gaff cutters and schooners have a counter in order to get a long enough boom - one does not want the boom projecting so far over the stern that you cannot reach the reef cringle, if points reefing, and with roller reefing the sheet must come vertically from the end of the boom.

Counters of the first two types may very well slam in a seaway or even at anchor in a swell. Counters of the third type need not do so and can be a very seaworthy type of stern, offering good reserve bouyancy to match a spoon bow. Mirelle for instance has a counter of the third type - looks lovely, allows the mainsheet to be in the right place, but does not slam in a seaway because the horn timber rises reasonably quickly and the counter itself is V shaped rather than U shaped.

It terminates in a massive baulk of teak; there are directions for lofting and shaping this very complex form in Watts and Jurd, but I would not even like to think about it!