Why do I need a boating license?

[ion barnes]

"Woman killed in boating incident"

A 47-year-old woman was thrown head-first into a rock cliff and killed when her boat ran agound on an island near Pender Harbour Saturday night.

A seven-meter pleasure craft called Strike 1 radioed the coast guard in Comox for help just before 10pm, saying had hit land on Hodgson Island about 2 km west of Pender Harbour on the Sunshine Coast.

"The woman was on the bow of the boat with a flashlight when the vessel sturck the cliff at full speed," said the marine commander at the Joint Rescue Co-ordination, "the accident appears to have been a navigational error. The boat had a Global Positioning System unit. They were en route on a very short trip from Pender Island to Nelson Island and this group of islands are in between them," he said.
center in Victoria, BC.

"It appeared she struck head-first into a rockwall, bounced off, and ended up in the water and drifted ashore. It took rescuers two hours to find the woman's body.

Sunshine Coast RCMP said the male who was steering the boat received minor injuries and another male suffered broken ribs.

[mmd]

Duck and cover...!

[Billy Bones]

A seven-meter pleasure craft called Strike 1... I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

[Victor]

People like this provide some good laughs at the fuel dock. Full speed? When she's in the bow with a flashlight?

[ 10-25-2005, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Victor ]

[ssor]

The wrong one was killed!

[Ken Hutchins]

I'm working part time in the local marine supply emporium, and I can tell you for sure that I have met a lot of flaming idiots in the store who go out there and run around in boats.

[Gary E]

You dont "need" a license, having one will not help. What is needed is common sense, that guy would put his wife out front on the car fender if it didnt have headlights...

[JimD]

Apparently distances are hard to judge over the water, at full speed, at night, with a flashlight.

[ 10-25-2005, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[Alan Peck]

This brings up a topic I have been thinking about lately. Seems like when I was a kid (50's) most everyone who had a boat knew something about boating. There was no GPS and you had to be pretty self reliant and know the local waters, weather, etc. etc.

Today, seems like most people who own boats (the plastic tennis shoe shaped ones) have no clue about boating in general. A lot of them don't even have an anchor on the boat. They just think it's just another form of a car to get in and drive. I guess if you make things too easy, too many unqualified people get involved.

Which brings up another subject: I went to a local boat dealers' show recently. I was amazed at the size of the outboards. Two 250 HP engines on an 19' boat.There wasn't a single boat (and these were all trailer boats) with less than 150 HP. If all they want to do is go fast why not just stay in their air condtioned cars?

[Victor]

Good point Alan. That's the result of the marketing: it's just like driving a car. Anchors are not required by the CG if you're under 20 feet, right?

Thank God those harebrained schemes for everyone FLYING never materialized.

So why is she out there with a flashlight if he doesn't know there are rocks ahead?

Reminds me of a Dear Ann letter I read once: Dear Ann, I think my husband's trying to kill me - he just tried to drop a toolbox on my head from the roof. What should I do? Ann's answer: If he asks you to go hunting with him, say no!

[ 10-25-2005, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Victor ]

[Frank Wentzel]

Around here the weekend fishermen think the ultimate in safe boating is a cell phone and a Sea-tow membership. I tried to explain to one of them that depending on someone else to get your chesnuts out of the fire was not a good idea. He couldn't comprehend that there might be a problem with that plan! :rolleyes:

/// Frank ///

[Victor]

I resemble that remark! That's exactly how I got back to shore last time I went out! 5 miles on 6 gallons was not part of the plan!

Whatever else you do, these days those ARE critical components of prudent boating! Unless you want to pay $400 for 5 gallons of gas or a one-mile tow.

[ 10-25-2005, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Victor ]

[ishmael]

Weird, shite. Up in the eyes on deck with a flashlight at full throttle? What, exactly, was she looking for? Presumably they were a little bit lost, and she was up there trying to souse out their position? Put that throttle down Myrtle, we don't know where we are, so faster, faster! Weird. I'm sorry she died, but that's an odd report.

I'm not sure licensing would make much difference. Look around at some of your fellow automobile drivers!

And Alan makes an interesting point. I learned to read a compass, the rules of the road, long before I drove a car. Nowadays anyone with five hundred down and a clean credit rating is out on the water. The sentiment is a bit elitist, but that's as it should be. In an ideal world idiots aren't running boats. That cliff they hit could as well have been the boat I was in, from the sound of it.

If licensing would help, I'd, reluctantly, submit. More taxes, dammit! But I seriously doubt it would.

And one wonders if alcohol was involved. Hmm? Sigh.

[Don Z.]

Originally posted by Victor:


Whatever else you do, these days those ARE critical components of prudent boating! Unless you want to pay $400 for 5 gallons of gas or a one-mile tow.Critical components, yes. But I would submit they should not be the alpha and the omega of the plan.

[Bruce Hooke]

I'm not all-together in favor of licensing, but one result could be that people who do really dumb things would get their license revoked, which might cut down a bit on the number of idiots on the water...

In any case, what a sad story...

[Alan D. Hyde]

A ten-million candlepower, 2-mile beam rechargable searchlight can be had for under $30.

Why would they go out at night without one?

Why would they move faster than their ability to stop allowed? Out-driving one's headlights can be as bad or worse on water than it is on land...

Alan

[ 10-25-2005, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[ishmael]

One of the first things I learned about running a power boat at night in close water you don't know, was SLOW DOWN! To an idle if need be. If you hit something then, it will be a minor encounter.

This story may be about too much reliance on GPS, but ya still gotta wonder what she was doing.

Bruce may be right, about licenses. At least they are revocable. I hate to see it, but something...

A recession/higher gas prices will get some of the idiots off the water.

[notwoodbut...]

Originally posted by Bruce Hooke:
one result could be that people who do really dumb things would get their license revoked, which might cut down a bit on the number of idiots on the water...
Bruce,
I know this is a kind of light-hearted thread but do you or does anyone else think that the above comment would be true? I mean, unless a reckless boat operator seriously injures someone or does serious damage to another vessel and is caught in the act, there would be no enforcement. I think licensing would just be another source of revenue for the state etc. with no real benefit to any prudent operator. Education should be encouraged, which it is, but that's about as far as you can go I think.
Jim

[mmd]

I am in favour of licensure providing that it includes required education and testing as a prerequisite prior to licensing. It won't stop idiots from going boating but, like licensing automobile drivers, it will (mostly) ensure a minimum operator age and mandatory competency testing.

[Rick Tyler]

I don't know about Canada, and I know Germany is way ahead of the US on this, but "driver's education" in the US is an oxymoron. Real driver's schools last a week or more and include time in the classroom, a closed driving circuit, and a skidpad. It's a miracle any teenage driver in the US lives long enough to become competent through experience.

As for "things aren't what they used to be," I remember a story in the newspapers and on television of a motorboat full of drunks that hit a big steel bouy in Anaheim Bay about 30 years ago. IIRC, everyone died. The boat was going full speed in a 5mph zone at the time. Idiots have always gone boating -- I just think that today's idiots either have more money or better credit.

- Rick

[Terry Etapa]

I had to get training before I could get insurance on my boat.

The conversions between me, and the insurance agent, went something like this, " how much experience do you have with a wooden, 48 foot, single screw, commercial fishing boat". When I said none, but I've got experience on a 30 foot sailboat. They basically said go away.

I got a trainer, who basically taught me very little, and I got insurance with no questions asked.

It was a real pain, but I can see the good in having people trained before they hurt someone else, or cost us a fortune when the coasties have to come out to rescue them.

Back to the accident. I dive in those waters. There are places near Pender Harbour I wouldn't want to be running full speed on a bright sunny day!

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by notwoodbut...:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bruce Hooke:
one result could be that people who do really dumb things would get their license revoked, which might cut down a bit on the number of idiots on the water...
Bruce,
I know this is a kind of light-hearted thread but do you or does anyone else think that the above comment would be true? I mean, unless a reckless boat operator seriously injures someone or does serious damage to another vessel and is caught in the act, there would be no enforcement. I think licensing would just be another source of revenue for the state etc. with no real benefit to any prudent operator. Education should be encouraged, which it is, but that's about as far as you can go I think.
Jim</font>[/QUOTE]As with driving, I'm sure there would still be a lot of idiots on the water. Also as with driving, I expect that most common reason for a license to be revoked would be drunk "driving."

I could see a good argument being made for only requiring licenses for over a certain horsepower motor. Realistically, someone on a sailboat or a slow motorboat is mostly going to be a danger to themselves and their passengers, whereas someone on a high-speed motorboat is clearly much more of a threat to others on the water.

Also, as others have said, for it to be really meaningful there would need to be a good educational component.

[notwoodbut...]

Bruce,
I agree with your assumption about operating under the influence. However, there are already laws on the books in Massachusetts and I assume in other states/provinces etc. I hate to add another law and layer of legislation and pay more taxes to do it by the way when we already have the means to enforce the law and punish offenders. I also cannot beleive that any state or jurisdiction has the manpower to enforce a licensing requirement. There are many times more police officers on the road than there are harbormasters and I dare say there are plenty of unlicensed auto drivers out there.

Interesting that in MA, if convicted of BUI, you can lose your automobile driver's license.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90b-8.htm
(changed link)
Jim

[ 10-25-2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: notwoodbut... ]

[Bruce Hooke]

Those are certainly valid issues, and I would also be concerned about the issue of who would actually be available to do the enforcing. Enforcement would probably be focused around the really busy boating areas, with little or no enforcement in more remote areas, but most of the stupid boating I've seen has also been concentrated in the high-traffic areas like the Jersey shore and many lakes and ponds in suburban areas, rather than in remote places like downeast Maine.

The fact that boating while intoxicated can cause you to loose your drivers license is one way of going at the problem, but it is a rather ironic solution. The challenge is how to stop someone from boating while intoxicated in the future once they have been caught doing it multiple times.

Do note that I am undecided on the boating license idea and I certainly do not think it should apply to every boat on the water...after all, kids should still be able to paddle around the pond in a canoe!

There would be some big logistical challanges, like wouldn't all the states have to do it at once so that people traveling to another state to boat could do so legally, and doesn't that raise problems in as much as it forces states that do not see a lot of boating (are there any!?) to put in place a lot of government infrastructure that doesn't really make that much sense for them.

[Rick Tyler]

While we are at it, what should the penalty be for ski boats and PWC that "strafe" small rowboats, paddle craft, and sailboats? Confiscation of the offending boat is a good start. So is dismemberment, but some might think that is too strict. Is it technically illegal to shoot PWC operators within 100 yards of a canoe?

[Ric_Bergstrom]

Please include any idiot who circles a raft up at slow (i/e not on a plane pushing a HUGE wake) speed.

Ric

[Phillip Allen]

Licensing would be policed by putting hundreds of cops on the water and handing out speeding-like tickets at $300 a pop...a real Boss-Hog operation. I once watched a single cop car make $1200 before noon on a stretch of deserted (shortcut) road near a construction project.

[paladin]

Un fortunately...when I came back to the U.S., the customs folks placed my M-79 in "protective storage".....I had my own cure for PWCs.....

[ishmael]

Alan said,

A ten-million candlepower, 2-mile beam rechargable searchlight can be had for under $30

Ya got an 800 number there Alan? I know, you mispoke, it's a million candle power, eh? I still want one! Rechargable! smile.gif

Back when I used to night fish lakes in Michigan one of them airplane landing lights would have come in handy for finding my way home at two in the morning. Residents along the shore might-a thought the ETs had landed, but they'd get over it.

Back to licensing and such. Different states need to enact their own legislation. One, rarely, hears of a boating accident like the one described here in Maine. It just don't have the traffic in idiots like some other locales do. And I'd be all for such licensure being dependent on horsepower, though a ten horse on a skiff can kill almost as effectively as 300 HP on a bigger skiff if you run into the right cliff or person.

I know, let's tax 'em by size! tongue.gif ;) Putting on my best state legislator's hat I see hope here. Like with smoking tobacco, I see all manner of possibilities for new revenue streams.

I'm, constitutionally agin it. The water once was free, and then they registered power boats, and then they registered all boats. But the times they are a changing.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Today, seems like most people who own boats (the plastic tennis shoe shaped ones) have no clue about boating in general. A lot of them don't even have an anchor on the boat. They just think it's just another form of a car to get in and drive. I guess if you make things too easy, too many unqualified people get involved. Well said Alan. :( The waterways are crowded with people who just want to go fast, burn gas, and get somewhere in a helluva hurry.

I learned the old way. I have tools, plywood panels, lots of line, wire, spark plugs, gasket material, more fire extinguishers than required, oil, transmission fluid, A search light, a portable search light, all the CG stuff, extra life jackets, a serious first aid kit, etc etc... I run at night when I need to, but I don't go fast. I always keep an eye on small boats, windsurfers, and swimmers. The water can be fun, but it can be equally dangerous.

[Gary E]

Idiots is a good species to have around...

They provide J O B S for plenty of others, maybe even you...

Autobody repair...
EMT's...
Doc's...
Nurses...
Ambulance Drivers...
Boat salvage people...
Undertakers...
Lawyers...
Cops...
Jailers...

And without them idiots.....the rest of us would not look so smart.. smile.gif

PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS....NO LICENCES...EVER !!!!

[Wild Wassa]

With the Sea Scouts here in the ACT, parents aren't allowed to take kids out in boats, even on sheltered waters, even when there is a safety boat in attendance, unless the parent holds an Australian Yachting Federation Certificate and keeps consistent with their hours. Which I think is a minimum of 20 hrs per year on the water. No one is allowed in a boat without a PFD on either.

So when I read things like this accident happening ... I can't relate, me being a safety Nazi and all.

Warren.

[ 10-25-2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[ishmael]

From the picture you draw, Warren, I don't want that kind of stricture here. Why do you put up with it?

It's like everything else, you delegate your responsibility to some faceless agency, as if that will provide security. Well, having encountered a few faceless agencies over the course of fifty years I ain't buying. Have it your way, but keep it downunder. ;)

What they turn into, mostly, is more idiots you need to go through and PAY in order to do what you want. Ever heard of liberty?

[ 10-25-2005, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[George Roberts]

Since we all agree that a flashlight provides too little light, perhaps we should consider that the lady had a different purpose for being on the bow.

[mmd]

The possession of a valid boater’s license predicated on successful passing of a boating safety course of study and subsequent test will in no way guarantee that a boater is a better boater, but it will ensure that the actions of an asshole boater will be rightly attributed to, and be actionable upon, being an asshole who happens to be boating rather than to a decent citizen merely ignorant of safe boating rules and practices. Not freedom versus tyranny, just legislated compliance to a minimum level of education for the betterment of the common weal.

[Bob Cleek]

While we are at it, consider that years ago in the days of wooden boats and iron men, everybody was pretty much like us. They worked on their own boats, or had enough money to keep a whole industry going doing it for them. Today, the "no maintenance" fibreglass boat "swipe the card and go!" mentality often means no maintenance whatsoever. And if any, we're talking about mop and glow and fibreglass wax and that's about the extent of it. Just look at how much shelf space WasteMarine gives to soaps and waxes and how much to stuff that really needs to be on hand for repairs! Those fools go out and wonder why everything breaks down on them. Of course, the solution these days seems to be a towing insurance policy! Maybe if they outlawed commercial marine tow trucks, those idiots would move into something else.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Absolutely true Bob. Beyond that, these guys couldn't fix anything if they had the parts. The marina takes care of their boats, or nobody does.

I'm really amazed at the CAA attitude on the water. It really doesn't work that way. On channel 16, all you hear in the thousand islands is the CG looking for boats who haven't been seen etc.

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by ishmael:
"Why do you put up with it?"

Jack, because it is what I expect and want from the Sea Scouts as a parent. When my children were small and learning to sail and do other water activities with the Scouts, I was happy to know that my children were with people who had not just walked in off the streets to help and that those involved were safety conscious. I presume this is what every parent expects, a high level of safety when their children are involved with others. It is a very good way to learn water activities with lots of safety first involved, it will stand you in good stead for life.

I wonder if the three involved in the accident had had a good grounding. With the reported speed involved, the driver was panicking and none were thinking clearly?

Warren.

[ 10-25-2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[ishmael]

Warren said,

Jack, because it is what I expect and want from the Sea Scouts as a parent. When my children were small and learning to sail and do other water activities with the Scouts, I was happy to know that my children were with people who had not just walked in off the streets to help and that those involved were safety conscious.

All very good, applause, but you don't need the state to tell you it, do you?

[notwoodbut...]

Warren,
Could you please clarify?
Are you saying that the rules of the Sea Scouts are voluntary and exclusive to the "club"?
In that case, Ish, I have no issues with the rules just as I have no issues with a particular race requiring PFD's at the start or carrying a life raft.
Jim

[Phillip Allen]

would a valid boating license be acceptable as ID? (just like driver's license)

[Chris Stewart]

Originally posted by Rick Tyler:
Is it technically illegal to shoot PWC operators within 100 yards of a canoe?A license is not required for PWC's.
(Not sure about the bag limit, though.)

[JimD]

A license is not required for PWC's.
(Not sure about the bag limit, though.) How about a bounty?

[Alan D. Hyde]

Ten million, Jack.

At Costco.

Most at Lowe's, Home Depot, or Menards are now two million candlepower. Under $30. :D

Alan

[ishmael]

Really, ten million? Shows what I know. Last I followed a million was a pretty good portable lamp. That's a bloody lot of bright! smile.gif

[Katherine]

I thought most power boats were required to have some sort of spot light.

[ishmael]

I thought most power boats were required to have some sort of spot light.

Not unless it's a new rule.

[Invader]

My heart goes out to the family for there loss.

Every year I am surprised at how many people do not die on the water.

Lack of training from the simple task of putting on a PFD to knowing how to read a chart and plot a course.

Experience takes time a simple course and a license will never change that.

We as boaters need to step up to the plate and be accountable. Its easy to say who or they then point a finger but the next time you see a 5 year old running down the dock with no PFD say something.

The next time you walk by a boat that has its boarding ladder broken say something.

I can go on and on but I find its only like the 10 percent that will not listen. The other 90 are more than willing to take advise from us old salts < grin>. We can help and be helped giving and recieving a better safer experience on the water.

I truly doubt that goverment intervention will change anything other than creating more jobs to administer a new revinue source.

My oppinion for what its worth , teach by example and by sharing your knowledge. These forums are a great resource for such. I have made my share of mistakes over the years and am happy to still be here.

So search and or docking lights are not part of your approved required nav lights. Use these for search and or docking not as "Head Lights". When running at night these not only blind you but any other vessel running around you. These can even hide your nav lights making it confusing for others.

Plot a course for night runs be familiar with nav lights and aids to nav refrenced on your charts. Use your GPS as back up. Remember a GPS gives you historical data so be carefull when using for navigation on confined water ways with limited visabilty. Or at least be aware of that.

Also or a heads up on this coast be prepared to run without GPS or VHF or Cell, coverage can be disrupted or simply non exsistant. There are also some areas that your compass will not be reliable. It is not advisable to run this coast blind on auto pilot keep watch all the time. Inside passage BC.

Runnung at night takes good sound navigational skills along with a solid course plan. Fly by wire is not a sound choice.

Just my oppinions

Willy