What To Do With a Thistle ?

[Leon m]

Late last summer I purchased a 1968 Thistle
on a whim, at the time I knew nothing about
Thistles but it looked like a fun, fast boat,the
price was right,and if nothing else I could
use the trailer for the Sharpie that I am
currently building.
After educating myself about the Thistle
design I have learned that a previous owner
added a mahogony foredeck and a floatation
seat at the stern.Someone from a local sailing
club said as he got older he wanted a drier
safer boat.Even though it's been messed with
I must say he did a nice job,it looks good
anyway.
So now here I sit with a Thistle that
probably doesn't have much value to someone
interested in Thistles.My wife thinks its
a bit too tender to make a practicle daysailer
with our young children,etc, etc.
So my questions to you are:
(1)Can I put a sail rig with a lower center
of effort(gaff or ?) on it to make it less
tender?
(2)should I try to part it out?
(3)or should I just give it away(without the
trailer).

Last thing I want to do is haul It to the
dump. I think it has potential to be a fun
boat.
And hey! all is not lost...I got a nice trailer for my Sharpie.

[Scott Rosen]

I assume it's a wood hull?

What is the hull number?

[Dan McCosh]

The "old" wood Thistles are still raced actively, in fact are regarded as faster and stiffer than the 'glass hulls. I would think even a modified hull could be restored to competitive condition. Since the wood hulls are no longer made, it would be a shame to take this one out of racing. There is a Thistle web site, where someone might be interested.

[Leon m]

Scott & Dan
I'm sorry to report, the hull is glass,everything
else is wood. It was built during the time
when they were going from wood to glass,the
hull is still very stiff though.I don't
remember the hull # off hand but I think it
was something like 1875...?

[Ian McColgin]

I've not started sailing Il Pipi but a couple of thoughts:

I doubt that the foredeck really keeps much water out. Maybe sail for a summer and then if you want a winter project, take it out. It's just weight but probably is light enough that unless you want the Thistle to be really authentic, it may be just one of those things . . .

For safety, try to have at least 400# positive flotation. This is about 6 1/4 cubic feet for salt water sailors.

I've not checked with other Thistle sailors so I don't know if anyone puts in any kind of self bailers, but it seems to me a good idea and I am investigating both elvstrom types maybe a tad ahead of that under the stern sheets flotation and a tad above the water line. I don't think a Finn style transom flapper would work too well.

When I was young and before the days of good flotation, we did without and self-rescue from a complete swamping would have been hard - as with all boats of that era. But I don't recollect it as being such a big deal. You really only take risks racing and it's easy enough to stay conservative.

Thistle's have roller reefing that's designed to be operated from a wire over a drum on the boom so you can reef underway. I'm tempted to either go to slab reefing or to shape the boom to get a better shape in the reefed sail. I don't think that enough sailors know enough about reefing. Practice a lot and you'll get comfortable.

I sailed a Thistle as a 12 year old with another (girl) 12 year old in moderate (under 15kt) weather and don't remember anything that was more than thrilling. With adults we got into winds up to about 20kt.

I expect to get used to reefing Il Pipi as we frequently have stiffer breezes up here, but I'd say that the Thistle is a potentially hot boat but her highly bouyant shape makes it really easy to power down and stay dry enough that a little pumping will keep up with the splash.

Sandy Douglas claimed that Thistles are dry boats but maybe he always sailed in the rain. They are not any wetter than similar sized boats for a given speed. Since they can go really fast if you want to, you can get as wet as you choose.

Anyway, I'll start remarking on the sailing once I fix the three holes and the mast and get her working.

G'luck

[Leon m]

Ian
Thanks for the good advice.It does have a
self bailer in the bottom next to the center-
board trunk(not sure what its called).
Currently the rig has no accomadations
for reafing,but it does come with a smaller
main.

If I do keep this boat.something has to be done
to the sail rig.You have to raise the main and
jib with a ratchet style winch and to lower
sails you have to stick your finger in the mast
and trip a lever,wich I find very strange.
Further more my wife thinks it has way more sail area for a boat of its size than she is
comfortable with.

So if a wanted to make it more of an easy going daysailer would it help to change it to a gaff
rig?

this wouldn't be a sin would it? considering
how its been messed with already.

TODD BRADSHAW I would like to hear
your thought on the gaff rig Idea...thanks!

[Ian McColgin]

That whacky looking triple diamond is the lightest easiest to step and unstep mast you'll ever find.

Work on creating a good reefing system. If your boom is not shaped, any roller won't set well anyway. The Thistle folk I've spoken with (rather like the Wianno crowd??) simply don't reef.

But I remember little Kathy Rowe and I being able to reef easily

[John Gearing]

A couple of years ago I got the idea of taking an old Thistle and turning it into a "fast camp cruiser". To that end I had some good email conversations with Thistel owners who said that it was quite feasible to rig the boat to only require one crew member. Reef points on the sail, smaller (i.e. less height) sail, ballast bags, were all things that should work.

[Todd Bradshaw]

I've put reef lines on a couple Thistle mains for local sailors, though I can't remember whether the local club allows reefing during racing and think they were probably just added to depower for daysailing on windy days.

I'm sure the boat could be re-rigged with a gaff main, but am not at all sure that it would be any kind of improvement. It doesn't automatically lower the CE, it increases weight aloft and twist, may sacrifice pointing angle and speed and certainly doesn't make rigging or sail handling any easier. Fitting a Thistle with a low-aspect gaff rig to reduce heeling strikes me about like cutting the feet off of a thoroughbred horse so that he's shorter and easier to climb aboard.

In addition, I would suspect that it would be tough to change rigs and do it properly for less than at least $1,000. That's a pretty expensive gamble and you would still be left with that round-bottomed hull, which is one of the major factors in the boat's sailing characteristics and it's "spirited" performance. There aren't many boats that look as good as a Thistle, rolled up on a high heel with the crew up on the rail. Seems kind of a shame to cut it's feet off.

My advice would be to either keep it and work up to sailing it as a Thistle, or sell it and put your money and energy into something that is closer to what you are really looking for.

[Leon m]

Todd
Perfect advice as always!
Thank you !

[TomRobb]

If you think your wife is concerned now just wait until you take her and the kids out on a breeze day :D
You and SWMBO sound like you have rather different ideas as to what fun sailing is.
Sell it. Novices will find Thistles way too twitchy and wet.
I can hear her screaming now :rolleyes:

[Ian McColgin]

Again, to disagree, my memories from a tad over 40 years ago are that the Thistle was handelable by a couple of 12 year olds.

With all the foam and self-bailers you can self-rescue and sail out of the rare knockdown if you take the trouble to learn how first.

Take it easy and you'll learn.

[Leon m]

All good advice!
I do really like the boat,its fun spirited...
but my yard is starting to look like a marina
and one has got to go.Anything over ten knots
and my wife won't get on the Thistle(there
goes the crew).So I think the Thistle and
I will have to part.