Navagation: The Book Way and the Real Way

[NormMessinger]

All that technical talk about the proper pencil to use and John's election of the felt tiped marker brings to mind the difference between the way I was taught to navigate when I got a liscense to fly an airpland and how I do it in real life. In real life it is a felt tiped marker line on the chart with a little box to one side giving distance, mag course and time. Then just go fly. At 170 mile per hour in visual conditions there is generally little need to worry about the wind.

There one advantage when flying at eight or nine thousand feet above the ground that boaters out of sight of land don't have. That is what one sees below in almost identical to what one sees on the chart on ones lap. It's hard to get lost if one pays attention when flying by FOM rules (Finger On Map).

I turned chicken when in Maine so we never strayed far enough from "home" to get any practical experience. We could still see the next check point up ahead.

So I'm wondering. What short cuts do experienced coastal cruisers use or is it by the book all the way?

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
So I'm wondering. What short cuts do experienced coastal cruisers use or is it by the book all the way?Depends. If I'm just out for a daysail in clear weather, then sometimes I don't even take the chart out of the drawer. I always check the tide and weather no matter what.

Most of my cruises are to familiar places, so I've relaxed my navigation practices quite a bit. My charts are already marked with bearing and distance for all of my usual destinations. GPS has made a huge difference. I spend a lot of time programming my GPS, including a cross-check of the chart coordinates for the waypoints with the information published by the Coast Guard. It should go without saying that I program the GPS before a trip, not during. I no longer keep a DR log. Instead, I make mental note every few minutes of distance and bearing to the next mark. I figure if I get into trouble and my GPS units die, then I'll still be able to give a good position. Sometimes I'll write the stuff in the log, but less and less as time goes on.

When I go into unfamiliar waters, I revert to my old ways and pretty much do it by the book, even to the point where I make log entries every half-hour or so.

[Jack Heinlen]

FWIW, the best book I've found for DR, chart work, taking bearings, reading topography from the deck of a small boat etc. is The Practical Pilot , Eyges. He's done and thought about it for a long time. Some of the articles reprinted from 'Small Boat Journal' in Outboard Boater's Handbook , edited by Getchell, are also first rate. Simple, straightforward info for when the fog rolls in and the GPS is dropped overboard.

[ 12-10-2004, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Bruce Hooke]

Especially in familiar waters I will mostly do roughly the equivalent of "finger on the map" -- along the lines of:

"Sheep Island is over there and I'm about halfway between it and Sunshine Neck. I'm headed NW and I can see the can up there. I know (and the chart shows me) that as long as I stay to the right of the can I'm fine until I get up to Toothacher Ledge."

In slightly tighter water I might be checking things like:

"OK, the can is lined up with that point so that means I am on this line so I should be well clear of the ledges off Sheep Island."

I always try to make sure that I know about where I am and what landmarks I am seeing around me, both to keep track of where I am and so that if I sees signs of fog I can quickly take some bearings on known points.

In good weather in unfamiliar waters I do roughly the same thing but I am more careful about identifying what I am looking at -- I know what Toothacher Ledge looks like so I do not need to double check myself. If I was not familiar with Toothacher Ledge then I would look more carefully at the charts to make sure I was not mistaking it for something else.

Even in home waters if I am navigating a tight channel I may well start taking bearings and plotting things on the chart. It is all a matter of judgement as to when you can eyeball it and when you need to be precise.

I know that ships do everything based on compass courses. On the small boats I've sailed on compass courses are largely used just for fog, night sailing, and tight waters. Even on small commercial vessels that I've been on it has been pretty clear that the navigation is by sight rather than compass course.

[Magwitch]

I like to navigate "properly" even though most of the time I know near enough where I am and good enough which way the boat should point. I do exercises like doubling the angle on the bow, horizontal sextant angles, following a contour into a harbour and all like that. I don’t need to, I have gps, but I like to keep my hand in, just in case. Anyway, it's fun .
Now I've mentioned gps let me tell you about the Yeoman plotter. A brilliant bit of kit which lets you use real paper charts interfaced with the gps. Do yourself a favour, have a look at their web site
http://www.yeoman.net/
I've had mine for three or four years and would hate to "navigate" on a 2 1/2 inch screen or even a laptop with electronic charts. You have to have the paper charts anyway, why not use them?
IanW

[ 12-11-2004, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Magwitch ]

[Stu Fyfe]

When single handing off shore,I'll do alot of dead reckoning to see how well I can hold a course. Then I'll check out my actual position and distance traveled to see how I did. It can be amusing to try and take everything into account, tide, current, leeway, wind speed and see if your internal computer can put it all together. Of course I'm talking perfect conditions here. In bad weather or conditions, it's by the book. I find by-the-book to be comforting and reassuring in poor conditions.

[Ian McColgin]

I do lots of piloting both for my own skill-keeping and because I love teaching others. I do use the real small boat stuff. For example, because so few true virgins sail with me anyway and since Grana has no deviation, I in proactice work only with magnetic bearings. Since I've both a hocky puck and Steiner's with compass, even LOP's go straight to mag.

But I always go in order of DR, viz, then GPS just to test how we're doing. So's when the GPS goes down we feel good and when the viz is fog we still feel good.

I also, especially in fog, teach my crews how to use other cues. For example, the high speed ferries with their aquajet drives leave a wake that lasts up to half an hour. It's like finding a highway in the woods.

I was lucky to have a good and enthusiastic teacher in my Dad. He's both very compulsive but also very common sense. Told me how as a cadet in '39 he won a nav prize because he was the only cadet pilot up there who took advantage of the glorious visibility and the fact that Oklahoma fence rows and roads are pretty much cardinal.

Most happily, for astro nav (when I was about 12 and he brought back one of PanAm's surplussed very cool windup averaging sextants) he taught me from the air almanac. On a small boat bouncing about you really won't do better than that anyway.

One thing always galled me. I could take careful bearings and draw a neet mark on the chart with no better accuracy than Dad could just gaze about and then tick it off. He still has an uncanny ability to make reality shrink to the chart. (Hmm. Something metaphysical in that. . .)

It adds interest to keep piloting.

[NormMessinger]

I'm going to have to find a bigger puddle to play in. I hope current gas prices, $1.57 at the near by Fuel Mart, hold in to next summer.

[George Roberts]

Current navigation in new waters should include a GPS.

[Magwitch]

Originally posted by George Roberts:
Current navigation in new waters should include a GPS.But carry on working it out with a pencil until ,when the gps goes tits up, you are not lost and can find your way home.
Gps is great but you do need to be able to navigate without it.
There ought to be a law,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, smile.gif

IanW

[J. Dillon]

Since retiring deep water sailing and navagating is for the most part in the past at least in my own cruising boat. But I still take a keen interest in navigating and establishing ones position even though I can see just where I am.

Especially when the wind is light I take bearings to establish fixes and figure T.S.D. problems.
I always have nav. gear, a decent size compass and a home made pelorus aboard my 18' day sailer I also have aboard home made and enlarged charts all laminated and in their own locker. Sailing in and amongst the numerous rocks and shoals of the Thimbles can be quite challenging. Even the police boat goes aground or on the rocks. Since my charts are enlarged using a pantagroph it is a bit easier. Also having a shoal draft day sailer you can get into nitty gritty areas.

Here is one of my homemade enlarged charts.

JD

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid149/pd52250d30905fd83496ce02acf5c3498/f5ef4aeb.jpg

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by George Roberts:
Current navigation in new waters should include a GPS.This always gets my dander up a bit. I've been sailing for years and I still do not have a GPS. For some conditions a GPS would be very prudent, but I am not convinced that it is a must have, even in new waters -- if the boat is fairly small and the waters are fairly easy it seems perfectly reasonable to me to get along without one. I certainly would not want to see a GPS substituted for the proper tools for non-electric navigation and the skill to use those tools.

[George Roberts]

Nighttime. Fog. Lots of similar terrain.

For some conditions only a GPS works.

[Scott Rosen]

I don't know, George. I've only been using GPS for the past six or seven years. I was sailing for about 40 years before then (if you count my childhood) without GPS, loran or radar.

GPS is a great tool, but as Ian says, you need to be able to navigate without it. Plus, in areas of heavy current, you really need to learn the waters with DR to get a good feel for the current.

If you have a chart, compass, depth sounder, log, tide and current tables, hand-held compass and nav tools, you can make it through fog, darkness and any other conditions of low visibility.

GPS won't help you avoid a collision with another boat in the fog.

BTW, I do not steer from the GPS. I always steer by sight, wind or compass. The GPS is great for checking your set against the current.

[Hwyl]

Norm, there is a British book from the 70's called "Sod's law of the sea" that has a section on Navigation, called Yotigation. The book is dated by now, but one part I liked (and to my shame have used).

Is to sit below and use every means available to be sure of your position (in those days it would have been RDF and DR, these days it'd be DR and GPS) then nonchalantly wander into the cockpit, with your hands thrust in your pockets and inhale the wind. Then say something like "Ah that smell and this reflected wave pattern, means Western pig snout lighthouse should be popping over the horizon at any minute" of course it does because you knew exactly where you are, but it leaves the crew in awe of your powers.

This is useless advice to you, because the legendary Phyllis would see through you immediately.

[ 12-12-2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Now, that is absolutely the best sailing book ever written . It contains all the information that you always wanted to know, but never dared to ask .

Very sound advice.

Personally, for the last 20 years I have poked my head out of the hatch after a yottigation session, breathed deeply, blinked, slowly scanned the horizon, blinked again, smiled and said, in the words of Gilbert as in Sullivan:

"What a pleasant spot! I wonder where we are?"

I have used in good earnest the Yottigator's advice, when sailing in the southern North Sea, to consult the ferry timetable...

[martin schulz]

Hey Andrew - how about some "strange waters"

Since our last meeting didn't really work out, how about comming to next years RumRegatta. I will reserve a place at my little book if you wish!

If my boat is too ludicrous for you taste I can also fix you up with the Willow Wren ;)

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Thank you, Martin.

Prefer your boat, more my sort of size, (but I have to warn you that I snore...)

Will be in touch...

[martin schulz]

Originally posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett:
...but I have to warn you that I snore...)
The Rumregatta is usually not so boring that we all fall asleep during it.

[Art Read]

Read the books... ignore any initial confusion for the time being. Then just go sailing and compare your actual suroundings with what you see on the chart. Use your compass, depth sounder/leadline, and binocculars to square what you actually see outside the boat to what you see on the chart. Take some bearings on obvious, readily identifiable landmarks and see if they make sense according to the chart. Then use some bearings to identify a few "unknown" landmarks. Learn how to find your GPS position QUICKLY on a paper chart. Do some set and drift exersizes in currents. Play with your radar if you have one, and learn how what it shows comapares to the "real world". Most of all, do all this in good, clear weather BEFORE you need to rely on it to get back home safely. Pay less attention to "doing it by the book" than understanding exactly where you are, and where you're going... And if you aren't... STOP until you are.

Then read your books again... once you've actually done it a few times. With a bit of previous experience, you'll KNOW when careful piloting is required, or when "seat of the pants" "eyeball" navigation will suffice...

[ 12-14-2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

[Art Read]

"If you have a chart, compass, depth sounder, log, tide and current tables, hand-held compass and nav tools, you can make it through fog, darkness and any other conditions of low visibility.

GPS won't help you avoid a collision with another boat in the fog."

Uhhmm, Scott... Neither will "chart, compass, depth sounder, log, tide and current tables, hand-held compass and nav tools"...

Radar does help though. And at least a GPS will give you a current position, true speed and course over ground. DR will at best give you a very skilled and knowledgeable "guestimate".

[Bill Perkins]

This is not about fixing position , but one recurring navigational necessity is making out the boats motion relative to other boats ( and to buoyage in areas of strong tidal currents ) . Close inshore the best , most immediate info often comes from observing the apparent motion of the other vessel ( or buoy ) relative to the land behind . If the relative motion of the landscape is in one direction you immediately know the boat will pass astern . If it’s sliding in the opposite direction you immediately , intuitively know the vessel will pass ahead . If the apparent motion between the two is slowing , a change in speed or course on one of the boats is causing a convergence . If there is no apparent motion between the other vessel and the land you’re on a collision course , and need to do something about that .

In open water a hand bearing compass can be used in the same way . Sight the other vessel ; let’s say the reading is 30 degrees . A few minutes later sight again , but not on the vessel : sight 30 degrees . If you’re sighting wide right you’ll immediately know the boat will clear you in one direction , if wide left , she’ll clear in the other direction . A constant bearing means a collision course . None of this requires calculation or plotting .

[ 01-23-2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Bill Perkins ]

[George Roberts]

It was not my intent to say a GPS should be the only tool or that it would solve all problems.

For the most part, your eyes are both sufficient and necesary for navigating.

(Looking at charts in foul weather or in heavy traffic just seems the wrong thing to do.)

[Tristan]

Re. "best books" on navigation, I am reminded of best navigation stories, one in particular, which appeared in, I think "Yachting Monthly" many years ago, one of the famous "Old Harry" stories. To make it short, when Old Harry and his crew were confronted by a terrible storm, raging seas, and were being driven, helpless, onto a lee shore, - - - while the crew watched, with trust in their captain, Old Harry rummaged frantically in a locker, pulled out a bottle of rum, flopped into his bunk, and taking a huge pull at the rum bottle, said, "Wake me when she strikes lads!" Lowell P. Thomas, Naples, FL

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Actually, the very best book on pre-GPS navigation ever written, STS Lecky's "Wrinkles in Practical Navigation", aimed at the top flight of professional navigating officers of the pre-radio, pre-radar, era, contains the following immortal line, quoted by HW Tilman, himself no mean naigator:

"The navigator knows of no sensation more disagreeable than that of running ashore, unless it be accompanied by a doubt as to which continent the shore belongs to."

[Bark]

Interesting ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6720387/

[uncas]

I use the old methods....pencil paper dividers, parallel rules 90% of the time. I do know the Cheaspeake well having spent an entire year puttering around while co-authoring a book. So, obviously landmarks and knowing where you are going and what you should see is of major importance. Also a knowledge of currents and tides.
If I don't know the area...I read everything I can get, review all potential landmarks everyday before heading out and then double check to make sure I was right the first time....This is after sharpening the pencil of course..
I do have a GPS....Used it 3 times this year...I think....primarily to test my own efforts with the pencil...more of a game actually and I had to pull out the manual to re-educate myself as to how it works.
A GPS is great...BUT it is only a tool to improve or support your navigational skills. It should not be used to replace one's basic knowledge...A bit like a calculator...You should know how to add and subtract before you get a toy that does it for you...especially if the batteries die.
Too many people have no idea how to do anything without a GPS.and rely on it entirely for getting from A to B..These are the ones who scare me out there..
jamj

[Scott Rosen]

Well, Norm. In typical WBF fashion, you should now be more confused than when you first asked. ;)

Art,

You're right about avoiding collision in fog. The best tools are your ears, used with your radar, used with a healthy supply of boomerangs.

I got my first radar unit last year. I spent a lot of time practicing in clear conditions. The few times I needed it in fog, it worked great.

Funny, though; the only collision I've been invovled with occurred in bright, clear daylight. I was moored, and group of kids on daddy's big motor yacht lost control in the anchorage and swiped my stern, taking a small chunk out of my transom. Radar wouldn't have helped, but a bazooka would have.

[ 12-16-2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[LandLubber No More]

Interesting topic. IT would be interesting to compare the opinions about GPS to the age of the contributor. I learned how to Navigate prior to GPS. With the Canadian Navy I crossed the Atlantic and covered a lot of Europe without one. When GPS became common place though our training started to include more and more GPS content. Now a'days a lot of Navies (and civilian companies)are starting to use digital charts (all the Navigating officers are getting nervous about their jobs). I bring up the the age thing because it seems that the new breed of Navy guys are relying more and more on the Gadgets that help them navigate and less and less on heads up Visual common sense. Thats not to say we aren't training some competent people but for someone who is Pre-GPS I find it hard to put my trust in a "TV like " display. The concept for the training I have taken recently is to use it as one of your navigation tools but back it up with other methods when possible. The problem lies in the fact that a digital chart with a GPS feed is very accurate an it is easy to get complacent with it. The @#$% only hits the fan when you lose power!!

Scott,

[uncas]

Landlubber No More!
You hit the nail on the head...GPS is a tool. To be used as a tool not as an excuse not to know how to navigate!
Regardling collisions Scott. Mine is similar to yours...No fog..beautiful day...Annapolis...Been anchored for a week plus...during the 2002 Boat Show...Guy comes in on his Bartram...drops anchor...please note I did not say anchored...about 50 feet from me, gathers the wife and the kiddies and throws them in the dinghy to go ashore.
I yell at him that he is goning to drift right into me...His answer...Well, the keys are in it, move it.
Two hours later...had the fenders out...Called the Harbor Master...Not his jurisdicition...DNR was responsible. The harbor master did ask me if I had a stick of dynamite on board...I think he was hinting at a solution. :D DNR finally showed up, towed the boat about 600 feet away and waited for the idiot owner to show up. I hope he got a HUGE ticket.

[LandLubber No More]

Uncas: The guy in your example is just an idiot. Can you imagine that guy in fog, with lots of traffic around? Yikes. GPS as a navigational tool is very valuable, when it comes to collision avoidance though, it takes a good dose of common sense and the ability to get your nose out of the chart table, away from the pretty displays and look out the window. On that topic, the Canadian gov is brining in a system of boat licenses whereby all boat owners will have to take an exam (course optional) in order to be on the waterways. Is there a similar program in the US?

Scott,

[uncas]

Landlubber No More
You are gonna love this...Yes and No.
Supposedly anyone born after 1972 plus or minus a year, is supposed to take a boating course to operate a boat...It may be by state...Enforcement...NIL!
Check with the others though...Not being born after 72, I could be wrong.
I did have to take a test back in the early sixties because I wasn't fifteen to operate a boat...but that was because I was not fifteen. I guess that if I had been, I would not have had to take a course

[LandLubber No More]

Kind of like that here. For now anyone under 16 or anyone operating a vessle under 4m must take the test. By 2009 though all boaters must have taken and passed the exam. Obviously they are aiming at the young kids and people with Jet Skis for now. I have invigulated (bad spelling?!?) a few of these exams, they do not teach any navigation, other than having you recognise bome buoys and markers, but it does get you thinking about some good boating practices and safety issues.

[uncas]

Power Boat Sqadrons. teach GPS Navigation...No basics.
I have yet to hear of a course teaching the basics...
My father did that...Even the good old sextant.RDF etc...Of course, after 30 years of not using a sextant...well, a refresher course would be in order.
Heck, I have had boats come alongside with the pilot ( giving him the doubt. :D ) holds up a triple A road map asking how to get to New London....Lucky there was no fog that day!!!!

[PVanderwaart]

The key to coastwise navigation is to not get lost, by which I mean that you need to keep updating your mental map of where you are, checked against the chart 'often enough.' If you lose track of where you are, it can be much more difficult to reestablish your position.

An navigation instructor told a group I was in some stories of boats running into each other while going waypoint-to-waypoint in poor visibility. A problem aggravated by the accuracy of GPS.

At the same session, one of the attendees told about how much time he spends putting waypoints in his GPS before going out. I wondered why he bothered since Western Long Island Sound has so many easily visible landmarks and mostly clear water (at least in our area). Then it turned out that he couldn't see from the back row!

[Hwyl]

Hmm. I think I'll play at being moderator here. If you read the beginning of this post. It's posted by Norm' who is a licensed pilot and craftsman par exellence. He has also shown himself (at times) to be fairly intelligent. He is asking specifically about navigation from "outside the book" I know threads go off on tangents, and I've been guilty of launching those tangents. I do think in this case, we all ought to respect Norm's experience and knowledge. Some of the posts above are trending to condescension.

[phiil]

Seems to me that I heard, a few years back, that the Navy was going to drop the teaching of Sextant use, being well equipped as well as they are with all the latest high-tech gadgets. (Our tax dollars at work) The Old Guard raised such a Hue and Cry that they quickly said: "Er, um, we didn't really mean we were phasing it out at all."

Phil, mostly using his GPS as a knotmeter and for mountain biking.

[uncas]

Hwyl...
I hope that what I have put here is not condescending.....I use the old methods for navigation first.
The author of the thread has more expereince than I do...most of mine is on the ground...water...
If he is asking how we deal with modern tech...if we deal with it at all, what I have written is what I do..no more no less.
I certainly would look to him for advice.....on navigation..if the need arose!

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by uncas:
Hwyl...
I hope that what I have put here is not condescending.....You put me on a spot here. No Mr Uncas, I don't think you are being condescending---or really that anyone is, I should have been clearer. I think most people read theinitial question as "How does one navigate", whereas I think the initial question is: "I know how to navigate, does anyone have any hands on tricks that they would like to discuss"

[ 12-16-2004, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[NormMessinger]

"He has also shown himself (at times) to be fairly intelligent."

Once, maybe twice. Three at the most. LOL (as Cleek would say) tongue.gif

I appreciate the discussion, all of it.

So far I've had little chance to attempt navigatiing on the water. The GPS goes along for the ride usually just for fun. It is an obsolete unit made for flying but it gives speed which is fun and location.

[uncas]

Check out the article on GPS on the non-boat related forum.
Interesting!
Norm...hopefully, I can show some intelligence some of the time...

[Ian McColgin]

I consider it an absolute disgrace to teach piloting starting with an electronic approach. It's a bit like by-passing the times tables in the belief that all the kids will at all times in their lives have a calculator handy.

On the line of real boat navigation, I like to teach a major section on memorizing the special triangles, often from practice on land.

For example, that class of special triangles formed by 'doubling the angle on the bow.'

If you're on a line of advance and take a bearing on something that's 2 points off the bow and then keep advancing straight till the object is 4 points off the bow, then (assuming the object was not itself in motion) you will now be as far from that object as the distance you moved between the two bearings.

This is one of the easier ways to establish position from two bearings on a single point. I've had twelve year olds grasp it by walking past a tree and counting steps.

The bearings are taken by eye since a point is equal to the angle subtended by the four knuckles of an outstreatched fist. Eight points to 90 degrees and all that.

An "inch" - the angle subtended by outstretched index finger second phalange - is a quarter point. If you tell someone to look on the horizon and spot the wee bouy two inches off the starboard bow, they will find it. Very human measure.

In real life on a small boat, it's nice to get this info at small angles even though any errors in course keeping or induced through leeway and current are porportionally larger. Small angles are hard to measure accuratly by eye but the whole boat can become a sighting vane.

Have standard easily replicated positions for your head such as ear against the weather runner or if steering from the leeward side perhaps head above cockpit combing and between two lifeline stauncheons or whatever. Replicability is the key here.

Some quiet afternoon at anchor then start determining the angle off the bow when sighting the headstay, various lifeline stauncheons or other projections on the boat. Make a table as it may take a while to get them in memory. Especially get a couple of doubling angles, like sighting the headstay is 1 point off and the first lifeline stauncheon is two and sighting to the forward lower shroud is four. Whatever.

G'luck

[Alan D. Hyde]

"Landlubber" has hit on something that DOES worry me.

That's the witchery of the video screen: the way that those in their teens and twenties now seem to get pulled into it, and away from reality.

Last year, we were at our son's house, on a ridge, out in the countryside, surrounded by thousands of acres of cornfields and beanfields.

A magnificent thunderstorm was driving in hard from the West. Splendid lightning, rolling thunder, winds that gusted up to sixty MPH, big trees that swayed and groaned as if in pain, a paintbox of remarkable colors and sunbursts that changed continually: a tremendous show that was well worth watching.

I had to WORK to get the teens and twenties outdoors away from the damn TV, where they were watching it on radar.

"Hey, they're saying there's a tornado warning now!"

"What a surprise. Look at the yellow-green sky over there..."

Alan

[uncas]

Alan...although I agree beeeeee careful...
I mentioned TV, video games on an educational thread...perhaps negatively as I think many of the games and computers do not do much to encourage our youth to be independent and learn...
I got blasted big time...
Cheers
jamj

[Magwitch]

Never use a gps to get you into a situation that you can't get out of with log, lead, lookout and a 2b pencil,,,,,,,,,,

IanW

[Hwyl]

Has anyone actually used tallow on a lead under duress, or even to see if it works. I've used a lead a fair amount, and I do miss the old neon style echo sounders, which gave you an indication of what the bottom is like. But I've never used tallow, or I guess vaseline would be the modern equivalent.

I saw the "Garden on Nantucket" story set to rhyme once --- does anyone have it.

[NormMessinger]

I'd think water pump grease would be as good and easier to come by.

[Meerkat]

Or bacon fat! ;)

[Magwitch]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
Has anyone actually used tallow on a lead under duress, or even to see if it works. .Yes, not often but once or twice.
An anchorage I use has bands of soft mud, sand, and gravel. Depending on conditions I like to chose which I anchor in.
Why not use tallow as tallow? It tastes better than pump grease.

IanW

[Ian McColgin]

I use waterpump grease. Always in a new anchorage. Occasionally navigating in a Nantucket Sound fog.

One Round the Cape Race I navigated for the boat's owner laughed at me for bringing along my lead. But the depthsounder clapped out rounding Monomoy and only constant lead line soundings with every tenth or so armed to look at the bottom change got us around nice and tight.

My arm ached but we did very well so 'twas worth it.

I fall out of practice so at this time of year I could not give the right order but the classic marking of marks and deeps - leather with two tails and leather with hole and bit of string and all that - has a real value as the leadsman can feel it in the dark. Those lead lines marked with plastic number tags are for dweebs.

Nautical trivia: Traditionally lead lines were one of the very few lines on a vessel that were left hand laid. Coiling counterclockwise is a little easier than clockwise for a righthanded person leaning out from the starboard chainplates with left arm crooked around a shroud. The top of the coil is then formed free of the body which, since the lead line is trailing aft at that point, is far easier.

[NormMessinger]

I've never seen left laid rope in the catalouges I have. What diameter line do you use on your lead?

[Hwyl]

I looked up tallow, in the encyclopedia. It seems it's a triglyceride.

Plumbing the depths of my medical knowledge here.

[Ian McColgin]

My lead line is 1/4" dacron right laid three strand. The issues of coiling are different on a small boat and I manage to coil with the sun just fine.

I've used braid also, as a test to see just how much easier it was to coil counterclockwise. It is easier if I'm standing partly outside the lifeline hanging from the shroud. But that's not a wise or normal position on a small boat.

[Magwitch]

Originally posted by Hwyl:
I looked up tallow, in the encyclopedia. It seems it's a triglyceride.

Plumbing the depths of my medical knowledge here.Get hold of some animal fat, beef suet (for choice) or other fat. Mince it. Put it in a pan on the stove and boil until the fat runs clear. Sieve out the solids, keep the liquid. Let the liquid cool. Tallow.
Medical?

IanW

[J. Dillon]

Speaking of depths , lets not forget the sounding pole. Mine doubles as a wisker pole as well. It is maked off in 1' depths. The color red to indicate getting shallow, ( turks head at 3'feet) time to get the board up and green OK for my boat with board down. It is surprising how you can "feel" the bottom with a pole mud, sand. mussels, rocks etc. are quite readily distinguishable. ;)

JD

http://img140.exs.cx/img140/1884/wiskerpolesounder.jpg

[NormMessinger]

I'm told the best tallow comes from the hard fat around the kidneys, beef of course.

Beware of the tiniest of droplets of water in the fat as it is rendered, he says, speaking from practical experience. This little drop, no bigger than the head of a pin, turned into steam so fast it sounded like a .22 went off, blew fat all over the stove and knocked over the coffee can I was using. You'll be pleased to know that whole mess was cleaned up before She got home.

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Magwitch:
[QBMedical?

IanW[/QB]I'd try to explain it Ian but "Bad puns should be left laying where they're cast" Mark Twain.

[ 12-19-2004, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

[NormMessinger]

Wait a minute. There are a couple of us here that do not yet recogonize it as a pun. Come on, you can tell us.

[Tristan]

I think it was Pete Culler who gave instructions for making tallow (for slucing down standing rigging, greasing things that rust). Rendering out animal fat is the first part. Adding several changes of water and boiling, I believe, is the second part. This gets out the salt, which is not what you want on your tools. Piloting at night, using a lead in calm, warm, bays during a leisurely cruise, can be a joy, especially if your soundings tally with where you think you are on a chart. Only done it a few times (in Biscayne Bay), but once anchored on an overnight trip from the Keys, and after anchoring, noticed a day marker close by. Checked the chart and realized 1. that I'd overlooked the marker on the chart, and 2. that i was exactly where I thought i was using the lead. Lowell p. Thomas, occasionally lucky.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Tallow is no good for arming the lead when the water temperature is just above freezing - it is too hard. Use Vaseline or pump grease. Conversely, use tallow when its warm...

[NormMessinger]

" Adding several changes of water and boiling, I believe, is the second part."

But always with more water than tallow.

[George.]

Back to GPS, I don't much fancy using them to find the heading or follow waypoints, but I find them very useful for two things:

1) Estimating leeway and tide or current set when you have nothing ahead or behind to take bearings upon.

2) Keeping accurate track of your average speed when dead reckoning in variable winds.

Neither of these two can be done with much accuracy without a GPS, as far as I know. And neither involve any programming, so there is little risk of operator error.