A Cutter?

[cs]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1574091247.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

I know this image isn't the best so look closely and I will try and describe it. The photo shows a one masted ship that has a large fore-and-aft sail (gaff) and a large jib. Above the Gaff is a square tops'l. All of this is not unusual and could fall under the heading of being a cutter. As far as I know a cutter is a single masted fore-and-aft rigged boat with more than one jib, whereas a sloop has only one jib.

What bothers me about this photo is below the tops'l and near but below the top of the gaff there is a yard crossed across the mast in square rig fashion that has nothing attached or seems to be holding nothing. Can anyone help with this?

Chad

[JeffH]

It's just the lower yard of the square topsail gone cockeyed. The upper and lower yards of square sails aren't rigidly connected, and it's possible, say when dumping them in a hurry, to have them swing around all over the place.

This might be a bigger picture:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1574091247.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The definition of a cutter depends a lot on who you ask. Your description is the more-or-less accepted modern version, but classically it had a lot more to do with hull shape and mast placement than the number of headsails. In the early days of yacht racing, the English had a fondness for cutters, which were narrow and deep (this had to do with the tax structure of the time, which penalized beam). American sloops, on the other hand, followed local working boat trends and were relatively wide and shallow. After some time, there was some cross-polinization, resulting in compormises that could go either way, and the definition got muddled.

Jeff

[ 02-02-2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: JeffH ]

[Otter]

In Germany the term cutter has (or had) more to do with hull shape than rig. Because most fishermen prior to ca. 1900 sailed in flat-bottom boats, a fishing boat with a keel was called a cutter.

The boat I sail and work on is called a "high seas cutter" even though it is ketch rigged.

Just another tid-bit of informaton for your files. :D

[John B]

Like a lot of words, its meaning is time sensitive. A cutter in 1800 is different from a cutter in 1900 is different from a cutter in 2000.

[ 02-02-2004, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

[John E Hardiman]

A "cutter" when used as a naval term, refers to a small inshore vessel used for patrol and interdiction. A cutter is also the smallest ship's boat able to take a gun

The book cover shows a standard gun cutter circa 1800 in the british navy. Single masted with course,topsail,spanker,staysail and jib (which is the headsail arrangement that makes a modern "cutter" a cutter BTW) ; bluff bowed and fine sterned. With too shallow depth of hold and over canvased, they killed a lot of men and became known as coffins.

Just to muddy the water; here is painting of the US Revenue Service Cutter Vigilant taking the British Letter of Marque "Dart", which is also a cutter, off Block Island on 4 October 1813.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/gifs/WAR_Vigilant_sm.jpg

[cs]

Jeez, with all these changing definitions how is a fella supposed to keep 'em straight?

Chad

[ahp]

There was a time when sloops had standing (fixed) bowsprits. Cutters, considered a lesser vessel, were distinguished by a bowsprit that could be run in.

[ahp]

CS, if you think this a bad, trace back the evolution and transmorgification of the ketch over the centuries.

[Ian McColgin]

Careful ahp. 'Transmorgification' may be ok but your Georgia Department of Education has just banned the use of the word 'evolution' from the curriculum.

[Meerkat]

Methinks that perhaps, at one time, the term "cutter" was descriptive of the purpose: "cutting out" or bringing away from shore? If that was true, than any vessel suitable for the purpose might be so described? I do recall reading in one or the other of various fact-based nautical fictions discussions about prizes along the lines of "She'd make a fine cutter" when talking about a well found shallow draught vessel that was captured while working as a cargo vessel.

[ahp]

Ian, it hasn't happened yet. It is only a proposal. Who knows? It might pass. People down here frighten easy. Some time ago a Southern legislature defined pi = 3.0. I can't remember which state.

[ahp]

The Great State of Georgia has backed off from removing "evolution" from the public school curiculum. Former President Jimmy Carter (a Baptist I believe) said, with others, that he didn't want Georgia to become the laughing stock of the Nation.

[rbgarr]

Speaking as someone who lives here in Georgia, I'm afraid it's too late. Just the contemplation of removing the word and the flapdoodle over the state flag has consigned us to laughingstock status.

[tidmarsh]

Originally posted by ahp:
Ian, it hasn't happened yet. It is only a proposal. Who knows? It might pass. People down here frighten easy. Some time ago a Southern legislature defined pi = 3.0. I can't remember which state.Turns out that's just an urban legend, but Indiana came close: "In 1897 the Indiana House of Representatives unanimously passed a measure redefining the area of a circle and the value of pi. (House Bill no. 246, introduced by Rep. Taylor I. Record.) The bill died in the state Senate."
Urban Legends page (http://www.snopes.com/religion/pi.htm)

[Frank E. Price]

If anyone's counting, I prefer the cutter/sloop definitions that are based on mast placement, not number of headsails. Number of headsails would not seem to me to have as much to do with a boat's expected handling, performance or expense as would mast placement, not to mention accommodation. Mast placement more or less determines mainsail area as a portion of total area, and that's got to be the major deal, no?

Frank

[John E Hardiman]

Originally posted by Frank E. Price:
I prefer the cutter/sloop definitions that are based on mast placement, not number of headsails. The problem with that is that most modern knockabouts (i.e. what is called a sloop) and modern cutters have the main mast set about the same place. And realisticly, you couldn't tell if it wasn't in the right place unless you could also see or infer the hull form. So the staysail, jib, and jib boom (retractable or not) combination is a good place to start.

Note that setting a flying jib, does not change a knockabout to a cutter, as we are talking about sails set from standing rigging. Like wise, a cutter that sets an inner and outer jib along with a staysail (3 head sails total set from standing rigging) does not make it some sort of super cutter. ;)

[Frank E. Price]

John, I thought a knockabout was a boat without a bowsprit, as American fishing schooners were called when they started coming out without sprits.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that a more function driven definition would be desirable, as in defining cutter/sloop by mast placement. The "modern cutter" would thereby be known as a double headsail sloop, which is what some of us have called them for some time. A boat with its mast noticably in the bow would be a sloop and a boat with its mast noticably nearer the midsection would be a cutter, regardless of headsails.

This reminds me of caprail vs. railcap.

Frank