Tuart trees coming down the week after easter!! yep a set back... sigh

[Wild Dingo]

Alrighty the Tuarts at the side of the house are about to come tumbling down... so I think Ive found a fella with a horizontal bandsaw or such who is prepared to come cut the 5mtr lengths that the lopper will drop them at... so Im now asking for some advice here mates

Firstly Im planning on having him cut 3 lengths of 5x6 for keel timbers and 4 at 4x5 for deadwood and such as these sizes seem pretty standard for these timbers... but the rest is bugging me!... what sizes should we go for...

This will all be used in boatbuilding!! I have the go ahead from possumpoop as long as this wood is used and utilized in a boat if not it has to be firewood and thats not flamin well on!... anyway are there general sizes that I can get this fella to cut them to? would just standard sizes do? 1" 2" 3" etc? thickness here as the width will be determined by the trunk!

Anyway any suggestions greatfully accepted! This is just the first step in an amazing adventure/journey!! :cool:

[ 04-10-2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[Mrleft8]

One refers to plank (stock) thickness in quarters. If you want your sawyer to think you know a little bit about what you're doing, have him saw it "in the boule" or "through and through" in 4/4 (four quarter, which equals 1") for planking, until you get near the center.(Decide how thick you want your thick stock to be and stop that far fron the center)then have him flip the log, and continue with 4/4 until you are once again the distance from the center that equals the thickness of your thick stock. Now have him "Box the heart" (cut the pith out of the center), and split the two resulting ultra thick slabs into 4 thick planks. Don't forget to have your stacking base all set up, dead on level. and have a bazillion sticker sticks at hand for stacking. My experience has been that you'll need about 5 times as many stickers as you think you'll need. (stickers should be 3/4x3/4 by as wide as the widest plank kiln dried rippings. DON'T use the edge rippings from the milling process, or you'll get blue stain!)

[Wild Dingo]

Thanks Doug! :cool:

Now I may sound like I know something or other about it all eh?! :rolleyes: always handy!

[Mike Field]

As to boatbuilding uses, it seems like it would be best suited to keel, end-posts, or horn timbers -- too heavy for much else. So I'd stick to large sizes. But check your email for a bit more detail.
.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Shane, what happened with the Tuart trees? And what is a Tuart tree anyway? I thought you had a digital camera. What's up with that? You're leavin' us in the dark here mate! Info! We need info!

Steven

[pjwalsh]

I did this move a few years ago with some surplus red oak - it is great to see the fresh lumber pealing away - feels very thrifty.

A few things I learned about stickering and drying lumber from my cousin who is pro in the sawyering trade:

place the stickers on the ends of the pile within an inch or two of the ends of the planks - the boards will tend to check and split toward the sticker as they dry, usually the splitting will stop when it hit the sticker. It helps if the boards are a consistent length so have your logs cut close to the same length.

I did not do this on the first couple of piles and lost some ends.

[ 04-08-2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: pjwalsh ]

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Hello... Shane, mate. How did it go? Are they down? Are they milled into boards? Don't leave us hangin'. Helloooo!

Steven

[Venchka]

Shane,

Paint the ends of the boards mate!

[Wild Dingo]

The fella with the horizontal bandsaw headed out to Kalgoorlie for a major job so have a week before the buggar gets back... the Kal job pays him better!!!... Anyway will take pics as it all happens! Should be a hoot! :D

From the brain of one TonyH Tuart = Euclayptus gomphocephala he textbook tells me it is a dense, fine-grained timber with noticeably interlocked grain. It's slow to dry and prone to checking (developing surface splits as it dries). Quite strong, its used for general building and flooring. The interlocked grain makes it strong but difficult to dress to a really smooth finish. It's a fairly uncommon timber as Tuart trees have a limited distribution and arent coomonly cut in commercial forestry operations.

>From all of this I'd say it is reasonably similar to Spotted Gum, except not quite as strong (which doesn't really matter, as it's still much, much stronger than American White Oak, which everyone "over there" raves about. So I'd use it for the kinds of things you'd use spotted gum for - keels, frames, deck beams, stringers etc. Even planking if you were building a 50 footer, but it's on the heavy side for planking a small boat (an air dried piece won't float in fresh water).

For sizes, I'd make the keel timbers 5" x as big as you can - say 8" if possible - gives you more scope to trim them later. For the rest 4"x2" and 1"x3" would probably be good for beams, stringers etc. It kinda depends on what you're going to build - if it's a pearling lugger everything is twice the size of what itr would be if it's Sorkust your building.
************************************************** ****

And from other mate Mike of Field... Not a lot I know a lot I know about tuart, old son. But checking out my trusty TEDH, I find that it's right up
there with ironbark, woollybutt, and grey gum for weight. Going from green to 12% moisture content,
expect shrinkage of 3% radially and 7% tangentially. It's classified as Strength Group B
(second-highest,) and its "principal structural uses" are shown (forty years ago) as "heavy
structures, building scantling."

So, taking it all round, I'd say it would be most suited to keel, stem- and stern-post, and horn
timber. Once it's cut, I'd seal the ends and then sticker it to air-dry for at least three years.
(But that's only IMHO, of course.)

I wouldn't know what it would be like to steam, but if you were to use it elsewhere in the hull you
could wind up with a *very* heavy boat. (Think of how heavy the all-jarrah pearling luggers were --
and jarrah's *lighter* than tuart.)

So I wouldn't worry about getting the logs ripped up too small -- 3" minimum I should think.. And
I'd keep some timbers up to 9" or 12" if you can get it that big.( Any boat that sits out on the mud
like Sanderling does likes a nice wide foot to rest on, and you can always rip it up smaller later
if necessary.)
************************************************** *****************

So me resident hexperts have spooken and Im goin with their advice... now we just need this fella to get back and get to work!! Everythings ready this end...

[Wild Dingo]

Update on the trees...

Firstly its p*****g down cats and dogs here lightning thunder and all sorts of real cool stuff happenin in the sky so no ones doin much of anything with them just now... and with Easter just around the corner its been set back to the week after that

The fellas still in Kal but Ive rung and spoken to him he reckons bein Tuarts and him having an alaskan mill {not a flamin HB as we had been told!!} him and another fella would probably take about 2 days to cut them into slabs at... $150per hour! ugghh eeerrr nope! :mad:

So am looking at another fella who Ive been told definantly has a HB {horizontal bandsaw} but again its still looking like after easter... his missus reckons he charges about $70 per hour but it could be cheeper once Ive chased up a mate in Dwellingup who knows him and uses him often to cut trees into slabs {this fella works for CALM and knows where all the good wood is!! :cool: } I guess bringing all this together is turning into a bit of an excersize in strategic planning and Jos favorite subject at present fiscal gymnastics! :D

So at present they remain... bending and moving toooo and frooooo man is that neighbor getting paranoid!! :eek: :D maybe I can just leave em there to annoy the crap out of him? nah I want the timber! :cool:

oohh heres a pic...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p4b1eddddbe5189097fd31005a724155d/fc7ffa72.jpg

and another...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid55/p24e93a47f88b3b0c093a1d4e7a6b6588/fc7ff7b8.jpg

There are 6 that are around 1.5 - 2mtrs circumfrance 30mtrs high straight as a die for about 15 - 20mtrs then slight curve and the canopy a couple of shorter {10mtrs} that are about 8-900cm circ straight for about 5 mtrs... So as you can appreciate I NEED to get someone to cut the slabs!

[ken mcclure]

There are rigs out there (at least in the US, I'd guess they're available in AUS too) which attach to a chainsaw to allow you to mill planks. Could you possibly rent one of those?

Or at $70 per hour would the cost be less to get the logs hauled to a mill and cut up there?

[Paul Scheuer]

It looks like you've a lot more lumber there than you will ever use. You might try to make a deal with a mill to process the wood in exchange for half of it or so.

[seafox61]

Hi Shane
I am terrably bad at estimating the time a job will take. Has your saw friends given any idea how many hours at 70 or 150 they are thinking it will be?

are they going to do the take down cuts? do you have a good spot to lay the trees down, or will they have to be dismantled one 8 or 12 foot piece at a time ( 2 or 3 metres?)

Here in Utah we have a bad habbit or toping trees to say 20 feet tall and letting them go (grow) again you are taking the tees down to keep a neighbor happy? have you asked him to pay half? if they are not decayed or sick any damage they would inflict would be a case of act of god n liability.

Course as you want the wood I was wondering if you have looked around enough. generally a sawyer ( ok talking through my hat here sometimes is a better word; myself for instance have done jobs for the salvage, or for rather low hourly rates) would take the tree and cut them no money charge to you but he might want 70 -80 percent of the wood. funny thing they call it stumpage where an indipendant lumbewr man will actually pay a land owner to cut trees on a property .

a sisterinlaw and brother inlaw are looking at making pine log furnature and the cost of buying from the government is a doller a tree. we used to buy it for 5 dollers a cord ( 4 foot by 4 foot by 8 foot= 128 cubic foot stacked) have not checked it out lately funny thing some friends they were stoped and made to run a cut through the stacked logs so they could only be used for firewood, guess the lumber intrests do not want indipendants competing with them. on the other hand I once bid 10,000 dollers to cut (thin) 120 acres of forest and I would get to keep all the cut trees on top of that ( missed the bid because my partner asked his boss, the forest ranger what he thought of our bid and the ranger told his buddy who bid 9920 dollers)

and heard last year that a forest in new mexico, near where they had real bad fires the year before was simply giving away the already cut trees to any one who wanted them.

funny how value changes

I agree that you should paint the ends of your boards, I belive that some of the old recipess of (?warmed?) wax and??? out preform paint generously applied it can save the wold board from checking. where were you planing to store the wood to dry? inside outside?

btw why wid you ***** the middle of "...pouring down cats and dogs"?
best wishes
jeff

[seafox61]

have you thought of getting or making your own bandsaw mill? likely if you bought used or built one after the job was done you could sell it for near cost of at a profit when you were done?
jeffery

[reddog]

Shane:
Can you get the trees over here to Nova Land?I can have them sawn for around $35/Hr Canadian.Mind you if they rate up there with spotted gum I'm sure they will be hard on blades and the sawing will be slow.Believe me it's not something you want to do with a chain mill.Since they are yard trees your sawyer should be warry of embedded spikes,clothlines,fence wire,old swords,etc.Also hard on blades and the nerves when they break.
In any case you should end up with a fine stack of boat wood.
Keep us posted.
Earl

[Wild Dingo]

Gettin them to your frozen wastes mate would be a nightmare in itself!! :eek:

The fella with the alaskan mill reckoned he would only be able to go a metre or so then have to stop to sharpen the blades so it would be flamin slow as buggary given that! and that would make it bloody expensive...

But Ive not given up yet!! We bought the block when it was virgin bush and so there are no left over spikes etc in the trees... perfectly healthy in fact.

Reasons for pulling them down are...
1) Fear... pure and simple fear from the missus and hoons these things crack and drop boughs without warning or reason just boom crack drop... and with the prospect of storms this year {weve been in the midst of one all last night and its on again today} these things have her worried they are less than 4 mtres from the house...

2) More Fear... the neighbor is scared shiteless cause one has this aweflaminsome lean and tilt over the corner of his house and his fear is that as the law stands here if it drops onto his property its his to remove and the damage done is his... thats his fear not that Id let that happen but its how the law is here... my tree drops over the fence onto his property it aint my tree its his cause its on his property! Never made much flamin sence to me either but there you go.

3) I need a decent sized shed!!!... and this is the only spot Ive got to stick one on... the block next door was sold so thats no longer an option.

4) I need the timber!! for boatwork and for furniture and stuff like that and this is to me one of the best timbers around and hell its here!!

okay adverse side of things... mills here dont do the agreements your talking about... Ive now tried 4 within 50klms of here and none will do it... Tuarts are simply dozered down and mulched for gardens around here and are generally downed before the houses are built... we have one of the very last stands within the Peel area that is on a small block... the mills from what Ive gathered are not interested so Im left with the private fellas who have the strings tied with regard what they charge.

Dropping them will entail the treelopper bringing in a cherry picker and taking down the canopy then mulching or sawing that to manageable lengths for the fireplace... then taking boughs and branches off down the trunks and sawing them to be stacked out the way then the trunks come down in 3 - 5 mtre lengths.

Then after hes done the logs will be laid there until the mill arrives and does his thing... hopefully same day or next... they will be stacked and stickered at the front of the property while the shed is erected where the trees were... as its coming up for our winter and given the present state of storms here Id say shes gonna be a wet one we are thinking of some sort of shelter for them but were working on that.

I think for the paint for the ends Im gonna get some bitumin emulsion from the shire maintenace truck and whack that on... brilliant goop that! its the runny black stuff they throw on the road before they drop the blue metal in as they patch a pothole... anyway I cant think of anything that could seal the ends better.

So anyway back to the phone! :rolleyes:

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Just be sure to take lots of pictures. :D

Steven

[Wild Dingo]

Will do mate! no worries :D

[reddog]

Shane:
Sounds like a plan.I guess if you want the timber you're at the mercy of the independant sawyers.Can you work a beer for time sawing trade?
Frozen wastes indeed!I'll have you know the nightime temperature is up to minus 4C.It's raining here today and we are awaiting the blackflies.Lots of good eating on them.
Take care:
Earl

[Ken Hutchins]

Shane, get a commitment from whoever you can get to do the sawing before cutting the logs to length. You need to know the maximum length of the mill, and make sure his mill can handle the diameter. Not all mills are created equal. As for time to do it with a chainsaw mill that looks like about 3 days of cutting. A good band saw mill should be able to get it done in 1 day.
I speak from experience, I have a Jonsered Mini Mill. (chain saw). You can greatly reduce the time if you are there with a few friends to do all the handling of the wood and logs, refueling the mill etc. Keep the sawyer sawing. The big time comsumer is handling, not sawing.
About cost $70 aud for the bandsaw mill doesn't seem too bad considering the investment assuming it is a descent mill, and a truck to pull it with.
Check for other charges like travel, setup time and blades are they included in the 70?
Have Fun.

[Wild Dingo]

Ken good thoughts! I will give em a hoi tomorrow and see there will probably be a travel component but the set up will probably be included in the cutting time... we will see!

-4???? shite! I said it before and I'll say it again the cold frozen wastes!! ...geeez you fellas would have to kill and skin and tan a couple of bears for their fur for me to wear before I would leave the sanctity of the fireplace! and even then no one in the place would have clothes cause theyd all be on me!!! cold?? man you fellas must have brass gronicles!! :eek:

[Wild Dingo]

Update on the trees...

Finally found two fellas willing to do the sawing... both rang out of the blue yesty having "heard" I was bringing them down... one fella has both horizontal saw and alaskan saw and is prepared to cut them however I want them for either 60 per hour or wood in kind... the other fella was from Dwellingup School of Wood who is apparently ALWAYS after good timbers for the students up there... he rocked up this am and had a good old sticky beak and a yarn they can cut them to the sizes I want plus if I want them quicker they have a kiln which brings the time down from 3 years air drying to 3 months kiln drying... only hiccup then is that I am then restricted to 2.7mtr lengths... bit short for the keel timbers :rolleyes: ...never mind!! :cool:

both will sticker and stack them where I want them all I will have to do is paint the ends... "wood in kind" means 3 trunks for them 2 for me I get the "choice cuts" as they come down... I also get the smaller trunks {3 at about 10 mtrs in total not real big but there you go!

I think it will work out good either way I go with these two fellas... If I go with the school they will do all the work and take away the timbers for drying only hiccup will be I will have to organize myself to bring them back when done... no biggie! ...the other fella although missing out on the Tuart from here will get work from the school as they have no Alaskan Mill and need one so will offer him work... a three way win win I think?

Im a happy chappy by gar! :D Im finalizing the day for the lopper to rock up and the school will attend the day after all things being equal should come down Wednesday Thursday latest... so what next? well Im about to choof of and chase a Shire maintenance truck to try to cadge some emulsion from them... mmmmm half a carton of booze should do the trick eh? :D :cool:

The school apparently does carving as well so maybe I might wander up and do a couple of wee courses?!! He seemed pretty interested in "talking some more later" about canoes ala Mac McCarthy's Wee Lassies for the students... interesting eh?... also they have some sort of deal with some mob in Shamus's country {Tassie} to bring over some of their woods Huon Pine etc and can do a sorta barter for it... I think I may become like a roo tic at this place!! ;)

Next update should include photos of the canopy coming down and the trunks hitting the dirt! :cool: ...lookin good feelin good now watch some buggar come and stuff it up!! ...a pesimisstic outlook ala Yaz! :rolleyes: