Tops'l spar....

[NormMessinger]

Okay, now that I have one, what the heck do I do with it? Which is to ask, how does one stow a 12.5' spar on a 20' boat when the tops'l is not raised?

[J. Dillon]

You'll probably get a lot of answers to that question Norm but how about lashing it up and down to one of the shrouds. It will be out of the way for sure and ready at hand when needed ?

Will the sail be attached ?

JD

[L.W. Baxter]

You could cast a number of bronze accessories to screw onto the end.

A hook. For pulling people off the dock as you sail away.

A sharp point. For poking holes in those awful looking Zodiacs.

A scythe. For cutting your way through the reeds. Bogart needed one of these.

A pizza cutter. This one is obvious.

A little saw. For reducing the height of your mast when passing under low bridges.

I'll let you know when I think of some more. As for where to stow it, with all these handy accessories, you won't want to put it away.

Glad I could help.

--Lee

[NormMessinger]

Thanks JD. Yes I think the sail will remain attached but I have not started to think that question out. If the sail stays attached I'll have to make a sleave out of sunbarella to protect it. That might work.

I read L.W.'s suggestions to Phyllis. She asked, "Who was that? I like him." Harrumph!

tongue.gif

[L.W. Baxter]

A bottle opener. Make friends with the guys on the other side of the dock.

Pincher claws. Steal a beer from the guys on the other side of the dock.

A flare-launching tube. Defend yourself from the guys on the other side of the dock.

G'night.

[Thad]

Many are lashed to a shroud as JD suggests. I have SEA HARMONY's in a tube lashed to the cabin top extending out beside the foredeck hatch (16'+, the whole is such a thing that I didn't like the idea of it standing on the deck for windage and all).

[Venchka]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Okay, now that I have one, what the heck do I do with it? Which is to ask, how does one stow a 12.5' spar on a 20' boat when the tops'l is not raised?Only one spar? How long is your boom?

[NormMessinger]

The boom is 12' 3". Ah ha!!! I can hang the tops'l under the boom perhaps. Oh goodie, I get to build yet another gallows and sew up another cover for when the mast is down and all is stowed for a road trip.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
The boom is 12' 3". Ah ha!!! I can hang the tops'l under the boom perhaps. Oh goodie, I get to build yet another gallows and sew up another cover for when the mast is down and all is stowed for a road trip.Is that a good thing?

Quoting from plans at hand: "Sail stows alongside boom, rolled on spars. Provide hoops on boom." Maybe a lot of bother when there could be easier solutions. Let us know what works.

[ 04-11-2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[NormMessinger]

Well, about as good as trying to install extremely reinforced deck cleets half in the lazerette and half in the quarter bearth after the deck has been put on. Next boat I build....

[Venchka]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Well, about as good as trying to install extremely reinforced deck cleets half in the lazerette and half in the quarter bearth after the deck has been put on. Next boat I build....That doesn't sound like any fun at all.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

If someone can help me post a photo I have one of Mirelle with her topsail stowed on its spars in a bag along the port aft shroud. (Come to think of it the chap at the helm in the photo is one Ian Wright!)

This is probably the commonest solution, but not perhaps the best. The time taken to get the sail out of its sausage shaped bag (and worse, into it again) is enough to deter use of the sail when one otherwise might set it.

If you have a points reefing sail with lazyjacks you can leave the topsail, on its spar, along the boom in the lazyjacks. This is often done by people who use their topsail all the time.

On the whole, I am getting so fed up with my topmast spars that I am seriously considering (against the advice of Ed Burnett!) a topmast.

[NormMessinger]

You could email the picture to me and I'll post it. Or:

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[Ian Wright]

Norm,
Yours is a common problem, if you find a common solution that works PLEASE let me know.

IanW

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Stowing stuff up the shrouds is a bad habit. It adds windage and raises the C of G.

On the other hand, it is wonderfully convenient - make a hole through the end of the boathook pole or whatever, splice a loop of small stuff through it long enough to go round a shroud and over the end of the pole loop round shroud and over end of pole, shove up shroud, drop end into chock on deck, all done.

Mirelle carries her topsail, on its spars, and her boathook thus, with the accomodation ladder hooked over a rung of the ratlines, and the danbuoy for the lifebuoy shoved through a bit of tube seized to the shroud...don't do as I do, do as I say...

[J. Dillon]

Norm,

Would you consider a two part spar for your topsail ? How many sq ft. is it ?

It would be put together by a quick assembly and dis assembly scarf( 5 seconds) and still retain adaquate strength to do the job.(subject to forth coming tests). Such a shorened 2 part spar lends it self to all sorts of storage possibilites. Like a back rest P& S located on the edge of the cockpit etc.
Check out this thread. http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003046. Oyster posted images in this thread shows the topmast I'm considering ....only in two equal length pieces.

Somewhere in WBF I posted a mock up of this scarf and since refined it. I could take some images of the finished untested scarf for my 18' 2 part topmast to carry the topsail.

This summer will answer it's feasibility.

JD

[NormMessinger]

Mirelle: http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4da32b3127ccebcf6cbabe4190000003610
I'll put Andrew's picture in ImageStation later so we can see it full size in all it's glory.

Besides all the good suggestions L.W. offered there are several to try. What ever works, eh.

The Tops'l is 30 sq. ft. on a 12 1/2 foot spar. A two piece stick is worth considering. We are unlikely to push Prairie Islander very hard. "Pop open the window and see how the flame do blow..."

[L.W. Baxter]

Norm, if you do go with a two-piece spar, make sure you fit a pool cue tip on each end.

When you go ashore, keep the spar in one piece. Make a big show coming through the door of the bar. Take the long way around to the pool table, casually goosing the fattest guy at the bar with the back end.

Then take the spar apart, give your wife her half, chalk your tip, and rack 'em.

The lady breaks first, by the way.

--Lee

[John B]

My yard and jackyard live, with the sail, on the boom on chocks.all season. It works fine.
The only possible problems are that it's dedicated to one side.I hoist it and douse it the same side every time( which hasn't actually been a problem to date). and another potential problem is that you have to watch for chafe on a run.I'm just conscious that I can't let the thing touch a shroud.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The weather conditions in the above photo would not cause much trouble to a candle flame...which, considering the topsail is still in its bag, and Ian had just told me not to bother with it, is a pretty good argument for John's way of doing things. I cannot, because I have roller reefing. ;)

[Ian Wright]

Originally posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett:
The weather conditions in the above photo would not cause much trouble to a candle flame...which, considering the topsail is still in its bag, and Ian had just told me not to bother with it, is a pretty good argument for John's way of doing things. I cannot, because I have roller reefing. ;) Was that before or after the combination of no wind and ebb tide pushed us, oh so gently, into a Sigma on it's mooring? Oops! Perhaps you should have insisted on the tops'l,,,,,,,,,,,,, :cool:
For the record Patience keeps her spar on deck when under way and on the boom when not, mostly .
IanW

[Jeremy Burnett]

Andrew,nice photo.It would appear from this that all you have to do is scarf 2 or 3 feet on the top and bingo pole top mast and thimble headed topsl.Troubles over!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Jeremy - can I hijack Norm's thread to ask you two supplementaries?

1. Doing as you suggest, would you bother with the "Dyarchy" system, or would you use a leader?

2. I reckon she could well take at least a ton more ballast. She looks too high sided and floaty altogether - from the photo, what do you think?

[Jeremy Burnett]

Andrew,I have not used the Dyarchy system,but did have a plain wire leader attached to the mast about halfway between the throat and the top,on a previous boat.It was a soft eye over the mast with a thumb cleat on the forward side of the mast to stop it slipping down,It all worked very well,the sail could be kept in a bag at the bottom and was easy to get up and down single handed.The drawback, if it is one, is that you have an extra bit of wire running down the mast that has to be kept tensioned.The Dyarchy method looks very neat but personally I'm a bit wary of grooves especially at the top of the mast! But this may be an unwarranted predudice, especially as it is not experience based.With regard to Mirelle's freeboard and ballast. She looks just fine to me ,so whether more ballast is needed depends on performance, is she tender? If not why lug extra weight.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Jeremy, many thanks. I definitely like the sound of:

It all worked very well,the sail could be kept in a bag at the bottom and was easy to get up and down single handed

and I think I will do just that.

Is she tender? Well, a lot of people think so, notably Mark Butler of Jimmy Lawrence sails in Brightlingsea, and every smack owner I know, but I have sailed her for 20 years and I don't really notice. She is about 3" higher out of the water than her scribed waterline suggests she should be, and I think this is because I reduced a lot of weight when I rebuilt everything below deck, removing heavy galvanised iron water tanks, oak panelling, etc.

[Ian Wright]

Originally posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett:
.

Is she tender? Well, a lot of people think so, notably Mark Butler of Jimmy Lawrence sails in Brightlingsea, and every smack owner I know, but I have sailed her for 20 years and I don't really notice. She is about 3" higher out of the water than her scribed waterline .Load her up Andrew, a big 'fridge and a few cases of beer would be my choice.
Patience is over her waterline now, and that's without me in the cockpit. ;) She will be a few pounds lighter when I return Mirelle's Blake tool kit and spares,,,,,,,, soon, honestly!

IanW

[Phil Young]

Try using the topsail a couple of times, then think about storage up in the rafters of your shed. :rolleyes: tongue.gif

[John B]

aww Phil, you know you don't mean that.

we set one on saturday on a 54ft edwardian yacht which entailed sending a man( not me) up to the spreaders to lash the heel of the yard in to the mast. and the same to get it down. It was about 250 ft by the looks too. :eek: