Bimini

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

So looking at tidbit in the water we are very fond of everything except the color of the bimini. I love the shape and the usefulness and the construction. I have no idea who made it and neither does the previous owner. But Phil and I are thinking of Any other color besides bottom paint Green

So we need some help.
#1 Who is a good bimini manufacture and can they use the existing bimini as a template.

#2 What color keeping in mind things likeDark Red May turn to Light Pink

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid203/p6a4c3886a3eb56997b67f9e62a302a01/ef8df73a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p9faa11da003e62373cee0fd14b739f13/ef8ad835.jpg

[Dan McCosh]

Love this poll! I always wanted to influence public opinion.

[ssor]

Joe, Keep the color but have all family members press their hands in wet paint and place hand prints on the sides. Nice and neat, that way everybody will know that it is your boat, just as a plains indian put his hand print on his horse.

[Doug Wood]

Do you REALLY need a bimini on Tidbit? IMHO, her lines are to sweet to have things like that hanging off her.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

The bimini adds so so much to the function and use of Tidbit for us. It enables us to camp out on her and I have already used it to shelter me from the winds and rain today. I cant imaging NOT having that bimini, so I'm sorry some kind of bimini will stay. Now we just have to choose the color. ;)

[michigangeorge]

Joe- thats a dodger- not a bimini. And if you want a Winnibago- buy one and don't muck up a little yacht with that abortion! That kind of crap belongs on Catalina's and Hunters. And get rid of that stupid whore-house rug while you're at it. Its a F#*^@!G sailboat- SAIL IT!

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Joe- thats a dodger- not a bimini. And if you want a Winnibago- buy one and don't muck up a little yacht with that abortion! That kind of crap belongs on Catalina's and Hunters. And get rid of that stupid whore-house rug while you're at it. Its a F#*^@!G sailboat- SAIL IT!

Whatever the nomenclature bimini or dodger, I like it and and I'm not crazy about the color. It's drab and looks worn and old. I think I might go Hunter green. It's our boat so if we decide to put shag carpet in it it's our choice. You all can paint your boats battleship gray and keep them salty fishing boats with pine tar floorboards for all I care. ;) :D

[Todd Bradshaw]

George is right, it's a dodger. A bimini as a flat-ish sunshade elevated over the cockpit for folks that live in sunny places. A dodger is to keep out spray and weather. Other than the fact that that particular dodger is getting old and baggy-looking, it doesn't really bother me much and I can see where it could be practical to have one - even if it is on a F#*^@!G sailboat (not sure why George finds them so offensive, plenty of really nice, non-fiberglass sailboats have them).

Your builder could use the old one for design inspiration, if desired, but it's almost impossible to make a good, well-fitting dodger using an old saggy, stretched-out one for a pattern. It's a pretty complex construction and new Sunbrella is much stiffer and more stable than the same stuff after it's been out in the weather for a few years. Normal plan of attack for dodger making is to get the builder and the boat together with the dodger frame up and develop a pattern using something like Tyvek. The more time the builder can spend with the boat during the construction of the dodger, the better it will fit and work. Sending off measurements to somebody who will never actually work with the real boat (unless it happens to be a very common boat which they might already have a pattern for) is pretty risky, fit-wise.

I don't mind green, but that light seafoam green gets tired-looking pretty fast. If I use green, it's usually the rich dark weave called "Hemlock Tweed" (actually made up of very tiny green and black stripes) which looks good from the start and weathers very well.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid167/pacc8eaf2af31975d4612a3c64aa2883f/f433c946.jpg

Reds, yellows and some browns tend to fade pretty quickly and many of the ligher shades (creams, tans, light blues, light greens, etc.) often get dirty and tired-looking in a couple of seasons. The darker greens, medium to dark blues and burgundy shades usually look the best five years down the road.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Hey Todd would this be something you would be into doing ????? Even though you cant do the on sight fitting like you said would be better. There are no guys that I know of around me :(

[paladin]

use any natural earth colors and they will wear and fade well...harder colors fade quickly and look like hell....

[michigangeorge]

Todd, I agree that many, nice woodenboats have dodgers but , in general, they only look right on much larger boats. Some very husky smaller (30') can pull it off but most are just add- ons put there by people who should not own a traditional yacht. Wink Warner would would cringe if he saw this on Tid-Bit; I'm sure it's not shown on the plans! And although I'm certain Joe's response is partly due to my somewhat abrasive lack of tact, his "whatever" dimissiveness of proper nomenclature is indicative of a society that says " I can afford it and to hell with how it came to be ". Just as "yachtsmen" became "boaters" so will "starboard" become "the right side", "lines" are "ropes" and epoxy poured into the bilge is a "west system rebuild".

[JimConlin]

While Sunbrella is available in an enormous range of colors, I favor those which mimic the traditional pre-sunbrella canvas colors, particularly for a boat of an old design. These are the green color you have and the dark tan which is now called 'toast'.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I think it would really set off the varnish work.

So it fades... get a new one. Besides, Burgundy would go with Joe's rug!!

[Kim Whitmyre]

I think it would really set off the varnish work.

So it fades... get a new one. Besides, Burgundy would go with Joe's rug!!

Get a new one?:rolleyes: I've got a Sunbrella dodger, very well made with leather at the stress points. The shot below is of just the top, but there is a windscreen and side curtains as well. It came with the boat, but I have the receipt for it: I don't want to get a new one for a very long time. . .:p

http://www.dslextreme.com/users/kwhitmyre/Vaea/slides/frontramp.jpg

BTW Joe, I voted to keep it the same :), but as you say, it's your boat! But wait until you get the estimates for a well-made new one. . .

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Ya know michigangeorge I can be just as abrasive as the next crusty sailor ;)

The boat came with the bimini and if you think that Alfred B. Scofield was some lame boater you are mistaken he was an avid yachtsman and had his own marina in CT.

I know I might piss some purists off, with my carpet folly and my decorator choices of color, but rest assured I can be as grizzled a sailor as anyone. I stepped that mast myself the day before just to check the rigging and I shoved that boat off the trailer and jumped on as it floated, and ask anyone, I can hold my own at the helm and crew, I can out haul lines with the best of them. I can be as an aggressive a sailor as I am concerned about how things look. But lets get this strait Tidbit was designed by Wink Warner for a rich CT yachtsman not as a work boat to haul lobster pots on a pine tar deck. This is as much a boat of beauty and grace and yachtyness as Dove is not a traditional Dory. These two boats have a lot of class, and even a little bit of tart in them. So get over it.

I may make a mistake or two when I type with the correct word but Im always willing to learn and ya know what I used the word Bimini because that is what the last owner called it. Now looking at it its obviously a dodger. I also know how to tell port from starboard and I can tie a bowline with one hand. Does that make me gnarly enough.

I like the damn dodger and what's more important is my daughter who I'm teaching how to sail likes it. So guess what the dodger is gonna stay. You go out in some chop and wind and get soaked and be gnarly Ill enjoy a day sail with my daughter in comfort just like Alfred B. Scofield did when he owned and commissioned Tidbit from Wink Warner ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p00d1d7a503986c1d509ddad4c812dbcf/ef888ec9.jpg

Cause ya know what she may be the next person to inherit Tidbit

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/pf066c55e0714632b57a7997e436478b1/ef888eab.jpg

[Todd Bradshaw]

George, you're certainly welcome to your opinion on the subject, as are the rest of us. You're way of stating it certainly doesn't lend it much credibility though and I doubt you will change anybody's mind. I think there is enough room on the water for everybody.

Joe - No I wouldn't even attempt to build a dodger long distance and strongly suggest that you avoid anyone who would. I don't mind seeing a dodger on that design, but only as long as it's a good one, in good shape and one that really fits well. The rest of the boat deserves it. If you don't know a good local builder, you might want to limp through this season with that one and then drop the boat off in the fall or winter for a couple weeks on the front door of somebody good. Otherwise, you're looking at someone having to make five or six trips out to the boat at various stages of the design and construction process for test fitting. For a one-off dodger, there really isn't any good way around that if you really want it to fit well and look good.

The "Toast" Sunbrella that Jim mentioned might be interesting. It's a tan color, like a pair of khaki pants, but a strong, solid color. Some of the lighter tweedy colors they make, where they alternate white yarns with colored yarns to get a lighter shade, look rich up close but tend to look like they're already faded from a few yards away. Toast might be cool, though I haven't ever built a cover or dodger in that color, so I can't say for sure.

[Canoeyawl]

Light Gray Sunbrella has good reflective qualities. I have used it on traditional boats, it does not draw the eye from the boat like an “unnatural” color and you won’t see it among the Tupperware crowd!
I have used the tan color but I like the gray better, they are both similar to traditional canvas colors. Good old natural canvas would turn gray in a year or two. Might not match the rug though! LOL

[Todd Bradshaw]

...and if you want to spring rather big bucks for it, there is a fairly new window material called "Strataglass" that is amazing stuff with much better clarity and durability than the typical plastipane clear vinyl. It's also worth looking at having the thing sewn with Tenara (Gore-Tex) thread as it will outlast the fabric where regular Dacron thread will sun rot about twice as fast as the Sunbrella and eventually need restitching.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Thanks a lot Todd. Trust me just as I learned how stupid is was to fill the boat with all sorts of crap, we are going to sail her plain with what she came with and let her tell us what she needs. ;) So if anything this would be more than likely something we would do next winter.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

That picture of Tess in the cockpit may be the cutest one of her yet Joe. :)

[John B]

For whats its worth, I think that its a good spray dodger and the colour is fine Joe. We have one and it tranformed the way we use our boat. You see, when the fair weather sailors are sitting home on the couch, we're often out there beating through a nasty chop in a low freeboard wet boat and we're comfortable. 'We' is myself, my wife and three kids.Of course first opportunity ... nice day , a run or a reach, the dodger is folded flat,and on regatta day it takes about 4 maybe 5 minutes to take it off altogether and stow it.
Joe, leave it. do a season . If you still dislike the colour after that and haven't found anything else to spend money on , then change it.

[Hwyl]

Exactly what John B said. Dodgers are great. The colour suits the boat.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Its fine Joe.

[ingo]

I like mine:

http://www.bm-jolle.de/stock1.jpg

[marsbar]

Hi Joe,

I'm sure you would do a great job at recovering the dodger yourself! I took an interest in sewing small items for my boats a few years ago, and even sewed a couple of small sails. The best resource is Sailrite.com. I purchased a book titled Complete Canvasworkers Guide, by Jim Grant, the owner of Sailrite. There is a great chapter on building a dodger. Jim's instructions are very good. (You can even purchase a download set of instructions for a dodger on the Sailrite web site.) I followed the chapter on sewing boat covers and made this for my dingy "LILLI". Its sunbrella, and enjoyed making it. It even works well! You don't have to purchase a "walking foot" sewingmachine...just use what you have. Give it a try, I know you would be very pleased and do a first class job.

Best regards,

Mark

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p6c68f9190bfd33f1824aa7d24addc413/ef876636.jpg

[crawdaddyjim50]

I would put up a tan color quite close to Kahki. And would switch to the tanbark sails. Just my thought. You do what you like cause I can't see it from my house.:D

[Todd Bradshaw]

Keep in mind though, that even using Jim Grant's instructions (which are quite good, by the way) good dodgers are a real bitch to build. If you go out to buy one they're pretty expensive and for good reason. You end up sewing odd shaped pieces at strange angles, sewing in zippers and webbing and if you use the proper weight of window material, it's two or three times the thickness of the vinyl in a sail window and you will need some sort of modified foot (walking or roller) to sew it. I suppose it might be possible to make one on some high-end home sewing machines, but the proper thread weight is awfully heavy for most of them and you well may find places where your machine just isn't up to the job.

I have no problem suggesting that someone try building their own boat cover, boom covers or most other canvas projects, but a home-built dodger should be looked at as about as difficult a canvas project as you can possibly attempt - especially considering that it really needs to fit well to look good and work well. It's just not a great choice as a beginner's project, especially without a machine specifically designed to handle such work.

[pipefitter]

The dodger you show in the pictures is well done. That is not one you see made by the hack shops. The angle is correct for the boat lines and it makes it look and is saltier than it would be without. All that does is say that you are not stuck to sailing in mild conditions. The color matches the bottom too which gives it the accented look more than the after thought.We have a canvas shop within our company and it is right to say that it needs a custom fitting. Also,sunbrella done cold will expand and relax in the sun so it is better to have it fit on the boat for that reason alone.We don't totally tension the canvas on our tee tops until they have sat outside for a couple days.After that,you can still bounce a quarter off of them a year later.I think there is a spray conditioner you can get from sunbrella that helps to keep the UV from weathering it so fast.
And for what it's worth,even the most salty sailor you will find not minding sharing that dodger with you when it gets nasty out there :)

[Lew Barrett]

Joe,
I haven't congratulated you as yet. Your boat looks fabulous dahling!
I weigh in with the others who caution you to leave the canvas as is for the time being. I offer the same advice I've been given from time to time. Enjoy your boat and make changes when they become clearly needed. You know what they say about design by committee.....
Lew

[ddeaton]

Keep it the way it is. It looks fine. I am planning on the off white Sunbrella that looks like canvas for my boom tent on my 14' cat

[Scott Rosen]

I like the color you have. It's close to the traditional canvas we used to see years ago.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

WHOA if Scott Rosen say's keep it Im gonna keep it ;)
Obviously I'm going to have to consult with my partner and direct him to this thread. By the way where is Phil ? Phil ? ???

Oh and good to see you on the new forum Scott. ;)

[sv Lorelei]

we are going to sail her plain with what she came with and let her tell us what she needs. ;) So if anything this would be more than likely something we would do next winter.

I think that here, you've given yourself some of the best advice you've gotten so far. When we bought Lorelei, she'd been owned for close to thirty years by the same couple and I immediately thought, well, we'll have to change some stuff....run lines back to the cockpit...yada yada yada.

It was late in the season and we ended up just sailing her as is until we hauled her out. The more I sailed her, the more I realised why things were the way they were, and that mostly they worked really well the way they were. Not that we haven't made some changes in the years we've owned her but I'm glad we didn't jump into making things different until we used them the way they were.

[Shortman]

Boat I bought 1-1/2 years ago came w/a dodger from Island Nautical, City Island, NY. When I e-mailed a question about the bows, they were prompt, courteous, and informative in reply. Based on that, I would judge them a quality outfit. I recall seeing a similar comment on another forum thread.

[Mrleft8]

Ditch the dodger. It makes Tidbit look like a power boat with a boner.

[dmede]

Couldn't vote twice so I gotta qualify my vote here ;)

I say leave it as is, biut since I know you won't do that my second vote is for the color, I like dark red to match her bootstripe.

[rbgarr]

I vote for the Toast color Sunbrella. It would go well with the deck/coaming and red boot top.