Malabar Jr. laminated frames?

[gvido]

After agonizing decision making I finally broke down and ordered a set of plans for Alden's Malabar Jr. Not overdetailed must admit.

Would you consider laminating anly or all of these:

keel (6x8") laminated using 1.5" thick oak or elm
stem (6x 8") laminated using 1" thick elm
frames (1.5x2") laminated using 1/4" or so thick fir or spruc.

All laminations would be done using resorcinol (severe allergy to epoxy).

regards,

Gvido

[Jay Greer]

I spent a happy decade sailing a 36' Alden Schooner perported to be a Baby Malabar, "Wanderlure II" also her sister ship "Medley". I would not hesitate to use laminated timbers as you mention. However, if you decide to use Elm, I would make sure to use White Elm. Ulmus americana L. or English Wych Elm, Ulmus glabra as they have proven to be harder and more rot resistant than other of the Elms.
JG

[paladin]

actually, some folks will groan a bit, but the entire boat could be fir...keel sections no more than 1/2 inch laminations, frames and stem no more than 1/4 inch laminations..
Lyle Hess' boats were designed to be all fir....

[Northernguy59]

Douglas fir??

[JimD]

Yes, Douglas fir. Makes for very strong laminates, has decent rot resistance and is very compatable with epoxy. My upcoming pocket cruiser project will be made almost entirely from it. Solid stock for sawn frames epoxy laminated if required, and df plywood for the planking.

[Northernguy59]

actually, some folks will groan a bit, but the entire boat could be fir...keel sections no more than 1/2 inch laminations, frames and stem no more than 1/4 inch laminations..
Lyle Hess' boats were designed to be all fir....

Hess ment for his designs to be doug fir??

[paladin]

Yes....I have two sets of his plans on file....ALL Douglas fir, even to the planking....the 39 footer really surprised me....

[gvido]

No Douglas fir where I come from (Slovenia). Spruce abound however, and white oak can be found at a reasonable price.

Gvido

[Don Z.]

I spent a happy decade sailing a 36' Alden Schooner perported to be a Baby Malabar, "Wanderlure II" also her sister ship "Medley". JG

Jay,
Do you have a design number for this boat? The only one I know of near 36 feet is Tyhee... I'm interested in something similar. Thanks.

[Jay Greer]

Don,
As a matter of fact, I have a full set of plans for the 36' Alden "Baby Malabar". They are in my office in Port townsend and I am in California so I can't look up the number. Only two boats were ever built to the design. Wanderlure II was built in City Island NY in 1927. And "Medley" was built during WWII by Dr. John G. Langton and his father in Los Angeles. Alden told the Langtons that he had made a few changes that would make "Medely" faster than "Wanderlure II".
But this did not prove to be true because we match raced the boats on many occasions and "Wanderlure" is faster on all points of sail and also foots much better.
"Wanderlure" has just undergone an extensive three year rebuild and now hails out of Poulsbo WA. I might add that this boat is the fastest schooner for it's size that I have ever sailed. We won many a race with her. "Wanderlure II" also brought her owner and family safely back from Catalina Island during the height of the California Hurricane of 1939.
Fair Winds,
Jay

[Don Z.]

Jay,
Thanks... I understand you're out of the office, I'll check my book again to see what's listed in the index, and then contact the Alden office. It sounds like a nice boat, if you ever post a photo I'd love to see it.
Z

[emichaels]

Interesting comments on the Hess plans calling out fir. I have the 30 foot cutter plans and there is no mention of fir anywhere. Its all oakin the backbone and on the sheet specifically drawn for the Pardey's Taleisin they specified teak for the keel and frames, etc.

I would not be suprised to see fir speced on a Hess boat as he was on the west coast where fir is plentiful. But it is not in my plans.

Eric

[Lucky Luke]

Hi Gvido,

I don't know how long ago you posted your questions (it does not show on this "new" forum), and any comments may now be obsolete, but just in case:

Lamination for all the parts you mention is OK, but you will have to be extremely careful in laminating with resorcinol glue. First, the glue you will buy needs to be "freshly made". This is rarely mentionned, but this glue has a rather short shelf life.
Then, unlike epoxy which is very forgiving (but much more expensive too!), this glue needs a perfect fit (wood on wood: thickness of glue after gluing = 0) and pressure of course.
It glues specially badly with oak. You will need to scar (coarse sanding across grain) each plank (or veneer) of your lamination, apply glue both side....and hurry up!
It is specially difficult when you do short radius laminations using thin veneer (a few millimeters), and you will probably need to have a steel strip each side in order to avoid lack of pressure between clamps. Hope you have enough of them. Otherwise, for a one boat construction, and if you have enough people to help you tightening then, two pieces of wood and two threaded rods works really fine and they can be very close to each other!

Elm ranges from best to worse (ref. Jay's indication: WHITE elm only, not ay of the greyish ones!)

Concerning douglas fir, it's a pity you don't have any (only America has good one, actually!), but you have many other fir trees that were commonly used for boat building. Avoid wood with too much resin for gluing. Spruce: for deck planking (and spars): very good...other applications..???
At least, elm and fir glue very well with resorcinol.

While at it: your lead ballast: very easy to do yourself, and often comes out cheaper in the end than iron! no hesitation!

All my best wishes for your project.