Butcher Boy - A San Diego Boat

[Paul Pless]

I just read an article about this boat in an old issue of ClassicBoat. I've found these pictures, does anybody have any others or info about this boat. Apparently she was a turn of the century delivery boat that was extremely fast and became the star of the San Diego yacht club for many years. A fascinating story.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/sandiego/butcher3.jpg

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/sandiego/butcher1.jpg

[kc8pql]

Jay Greer knows quite a lot about Butcher Boy. He'll probably chime in here shortly.

[bholderman]

Crud, I was just down there myself yesterday as well sailing on the Californian. She is in better shape than that know having gone through a restoration.

[Tanbark Spanker]

It's a nice boat. I walk by it daily.

[bholderman]

The Museum is working pretty hard at the samll craft side of things. 2 Monterey craft were added in just the past few months with a lot of the restoriation occurring right there on the Embarcadero.

Getting the Suprise's anchor onto the Emarcadero, that was the hard part.

[Paul Pless]

It's a nice boat. I walk by it daily.


DAILY!!!

I'll be expecting more pictures tomorrow then...;) :)


BTW, does she still get wet or has the boat been relegated to being a static display?

[Tanbark Spanker]

It was sailed after the restoration, not too long ago. The fellows at Downwind Marine have sailed aboard her.

[Jay Greer]

Butcher Boy is based on the hull form of a traditional Italian feluca. She is some 100 years old and was built from a half model by a local San Diego Butcher to sail out to the square riggers that arrived in the harbor in need of fresh provisions. The first boat to arrive got the contract. The boat was never beaten!

Butcher Boy once belonged to my mentor and friend Rolly Kalyjian.
Rolly and Matt Walsh took the lines off her and Built Butcher BoyII
for Frank Pedder who intended to race the new boat in the Transpac.
Unfortunatly Frank passed away shortly before the race. #II was then purchased by my father's friend Roy Riley. I was able to sail the boat in many S. Cal. races. Butcher Boy II regularly match raced against Cotton Blossom II and more often than not ran away and hid from the Q Boat!
This is one hell of a fast boat! In fact they both are. Additionaly the boats are very deceptive to look at. The tremendus speed they can achive is not readily apparant to the casual observer.
When launced, after the current restoration, Butcher Boy took part in a giant regatta in San Diego. Not wanting to place the old antique boat at a disadvantage, the race committee gave Butcher Boy a half hour handycap against the fleet. Basicly it was no contest as she sailed through the lee of modern boats that were three times her size and lapped the fleet! I have pictures of Butcher Boy I on the "Common Sense Boats" web site at <Yahoo! Groups> if you would care to take a look.
Jay Greer

[bholderman]

Tanbark,

Chris the owner of Downwind is another, more experienced than I, volunteer at the Maritime Museum. I'll have to ask him about sailing her.

Jay,

Do you have a direct link to the yahoo group, my search for it didn't turn up anything.

[kc8pql]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/commonsenseboats/

[JimM]

Hi guys.
Buther Boy is a wonderful example of west coast working boats at the turn of the 1900's. It would be a service to this boating community if someone would write an article for Wooden Boat Magazine documenting Butcher Boys with pictures, lines and table of offsets. Also maybe the maritime museum can convince a model company to develop a model kit of Butcher Boy the museum can sell.

I woulkd hate to see this boat die drying out in the sun.

[Alan D. Hyde]

Beautiful lines--- SHOULD be fast...

Alan

[bholderman]

Hi guys.
Buther Boy is a wonderful example of west coast working boats at the turn of the 1900's. It would be a service to this boating community if someone would write an article for Wooden Boat Magazine documenting Butcher Boys with pictures, lines and table of offsets. Also maybe the maritime museum can convince a model company to develop a model kit of Butcher Boy the museum can sell.

I woulkd hate to see this boat die drying out in the sun.

Jim,

I've been researching several different aspects of sail in San DIego bay hoping to write something. Although, Butcher Boy wasn't one of them, you idea turned a heck of a light bulb on.

Brian,

I have a meeting at the museum tomorrow night, I'll ask around about the hull and bolts.

Cheers,
Brad

[StevenBauer]

I've read a magazine article about her(him?). I thought it was Maritime Life and Traditions, but maybe not.

Steven

[Jay Greer]

I have the lines of "Butcher Boy" as taken by Rolly Kalayjian and Matt Walsh.
Jay

[Paul Pless]

Jay, is it possible to get a copy of those? Do they include the offsets?

[bholderman]

The maritime museum has quite a few drawings available. You may want to contact them directly to see if they have some for Butcher Boy.

Cheers,
Brad

[Jay Greer]

Jay, is it possible to get a copy of those? Do they include the offsets?

I think that the San Diego Maritime Museum might have a copy of Rolly's lines.
I plan to draw up a full set of plans for the "Butcher Boy" this winter
This would include the rig and construction drawings.
Jay

[bholderman]

I think that the San Diego Maritime Museum might have a copy of Rolly's lines.
I plan to draw up a full set of plans for the "Butcher Boy" this winter
This would include the rig and construction drawings.
Jay

Brian,

This would be the boat I want to build, hehehe.

Cheers,
Brad

[skylark]

Does anyone have the overall deminsions of Butcher Boy. I am curious how she compares to the feluccas in American small sailing craft by Chapelle, particulatly the New Orleans oyster luggers.

[JimM]

I found this short piece this morning. It may help you search for dementions of feluccas. You may want to contact the San Francisco Maritime museum for information.

Americans are largely unaware of the fleet of lateen-rigged feluccas that thronged San Francisco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco)'s docks even before the construction of the state-owned Fisherman's Wharf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherman%27s_Wharf) in 1884. They were built by southern Italian immigrants (who called them "silene"). The light small maneuverable feluccas were the mainstay of the fishing fleet of San Francisco Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay). "These workhorses featured a mast that angled, or raked, forward sharply, and a large triangular sail hanging down from a long, two-piece yard" John Muir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Muir) described them.

[Thorne]

Chapelle gives a good description of the SF Feluccas in _American Small Sailing Craft_, don't know about the New Orleans boats or how they compare.

My favorite part of Chapelle's writeup is the bit about how small boats got around before small motors were available. He describes the construction of the metal chains and hooks that these fishermen would use to hook onto the rudder chains of the first steam ferries, so that they could get a 'free ride'.

The crew of the ferries couldn't reach the chains to dislodge them, and would often throw things at the fishermen -- who retaliated in kind, of course. What a scene, eh?

;0 )

FYI, the Monterey Bay Aquarium has a SF felucca hanging from the ceiling in the lobby, so that might be another source of info on that design.

[JimM]

I wonder if the San Francisco feluccas influence the Sacramento River gillnet boats and later the Columbia River gillnet boats?

[Dave Fleming]

Here's my take on the Butcher Boy....


I was told it was built not by Italian boatbuilders but Portugese boatbuilders. Not too far from where it now sits slowly drying out in the hot semi-dessert sun on the blacktop pierhead.

At one time, say in the late 1800's or early 1900's there was a large community of Portugese fishermen living in what is now the Point Loma area they moored or beached their boats on the shore along La Playa.
La Playa shore is now covered with multi-million dollar homes with the anchorage used by some transient cruisers.
Photos of the Point Loma area including the beached, moored fishing vessels are available from the SD Historical Society in Balboa Park.

I too have a set of the lines of Butcher Boy and to me there is reason to belive that the heritiage of the boat is from the Azorian whaleboats.
That heritage would account for the speed and seaworthyness of Butcher Boy.

Heresay has it that the same Portugese yard that built Butcher Boy was later to build Pilot #1 for the San Diego Pilots Association.


If memory serves, Dean Stephens built a SF Felucca for the SF Maritime Museum when Harry Dring was Director and it was suprisingly slow as a sailor. Not what had been expected.

[skylark]

I found this article which atests to its azores ancestry. It also mentions boats of the Sacramento and Columbia Rivers. Am I right in saying that it has a centerboard? Dave, do the drawings you have have offsets? I am interested in buiding a felucca that due to the local New orleans luggers that are pretty much extinct. This is not identicle but I think that it has the pedigree I am looking for. thanks

"Butcher Boy, which had similarly named counterparts up and down the West Coast, was conceived by Charles S. Hardy, owner of the Bay City Market on Fifth and Broadway downtown.

'Boss Hardy,' as he was known, needed a boat sturdy enough to handle any weather and fast enough to beat competitors out to the big ships anchored offshore, off what was commonly known as Spanish Bight and Dutch Flats.

Hardy turned to boatyard owner Manuel Goularte, a native of the Portuguese Azores. The model was the double-ended salmon boat sailed so successfully on the Sacramento and Columbia rivers.

A boat-building style that originated in Italy and the Mediterranean can also be seen in Butcher Boy, said Ashley, a style then favored by first-generation Italian fishermen in San Francisco Bay.

'The gaff rig originated with the 15th-century Dutch,' Ashley said. 'Even though she was built as a work boat, she was beautiful, really special even in her own time.'

'Everybody around the bay stops to look at her now. It's like she's sailing out of a Winslow Homer painting.'

Framed in oak and planked in cedar, Butcher Boy is 29 feet, 11 inches long, with an 81/2-foot beam. The mainsail and jib carry 604 square feet of sail."

[Jay Greer]

Skylark,
Thanks for the great info. Rolly Kalayjian was starting to build a model of her but unfortunaly he passed on before it was completed.
His model of "White Wings" is on display in the Newport Beach Maritime Museum (on the Ruben E. Lee). It won the international competition as the worlds best and most accurate model several years ago. They may also have the "Butcher Boy" there as well.
JG

[skylark]

Jay, If you ever produce those lines and construction drawings please let me know. I sure would appreciate that.

[bholderman]

Greetings,

I took a time out before leaving the museum yesterday to grab a few shots of Butcher Boy. I uploaded at Jay Greer's Common Sense Boats group at yahoo. I am currently struggling with the time to sit down and figure out thefree image hosting sites.

So if anyone wants to head over, grab the shot and link to here, it would save me a headache.

But to answer one question, no Butcher Boy is not bolted down, and its hull isn't compromised in any way.

[Dave Fleming]

and its hull isn't compromised in any way.

Until some drunk wanders out of Anthony's Fish Grotto at closing time and carves his initials into the stem or stern post.

As I have said before, sitting on that concrete in the hot summer sun ain't doin' the hull any good either.:mad:

[Uncle Duke]

skylark asks:
Am I right in saying that it has a centerboard?
Any comments on this issue? Centerboard vs. fixed keel?
Just curious.....

[Dave Fleming]

If my foggy memory serves, Centerboard.

[skylark]

The photos posted on common sense boatbuilding specifically show the centerboard. Skylark

[bholderman]

The photos posted on common sense boatbuilding specifically show the centerboard. Skylark

Again, my apologies about not posting the photos here.

Being pretty naive about small craft construction, is the centerboard that upside-down shark fin?

Brad

[Dave Fleming]

is the centerboard that upside-down shark fin?


Ayup.;)

[cs]

I'm going to bump this. Thanks Paul.

Chad

[JimD]

That's it for photos?

[outofthenorm]

I think that the San Diego Maritime Museum might have a copy of Rolly's lines.
I plan to draw up a full set of plans for the "Butcher Boy" this winter
This would include the rig and construction drawings.
Jay

Jay, as others have said, if you go ahead with developing these plans, consider this a pre-publication order for a set. That's my kind of boat all over. - Norm

[Wes White]

Paul,
There was an article in Messing About in Boats about Butcher Boy a few years ago. If you like, I can dive into my unsorted stack and try to find it for you.

[bholderman]

Greetings,

There were a few articles mentioned by a few of you in this thread. Can anyone caough up the exact references for me, it would be greatly appreciated.