Arch Davis Penobscot 17

[Jerry Weinraub]

Does anyone have any experience with this design? Is it hard to build-how does it sail and take weather.How about stretching it to 19'? Any info will bw appreciated

[Dave Gray]

Hi Jerry, welcome to the forum. There have been a number of people posting here about the Penebscott 17 and 14. You might want to look at the results from the search engine while you await replies - I haven't built one myself.

[almeyer]

Hello, Jerry, you should find a lot of help here. There's a couple of folks on the Forum that have built P17s - some of them just recently launched. And they're all show-pieces! I built a P-14 and launched it two years ago. The plans and instructions are great for a first-timer, Arch Davis tells you exactly how to do every step. It's not difficult to build as far as requiring any special skills, but takes a little patience. But the results are well worth the effort. The Penobscot also handles both rowing and sailing very well. That's convenient. I took some time off and spent a day at a local state park with a small lake. Alas, no wind to speak of. No problem, just bring out the oars. I was still able to have a nice day on the lake instead of keeping the boat on the trailer. I'd be cautious about stretching it to 19' without first consulting Arch Davis. He's easy to talk to, and will give good advice.
Al

[ddeaton]

I have my P17 turned over but not finished yet, have tons of pics. Kiwi and Mike, both are on the forum, have thiers on the water already.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid205/pf9b7db78b85e8a0b46b88e80d5b1a3fe/ef3dfc0b.jpg

[Fnord]

Sweet lookin' boat!

[Paul Girouard]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid205/pf9b7db78b85e8a0b46b88e80d5b1a3fe/ef3dfc0b.jpg

How about that nickel shop tour Danny;)

[David Geiss]

Hi All:

Maybe this question falls into the category of ill-informed but is the P17 in the nature of a traditional wherry or more akin to the Whitehall? The plumb(ish) and full bow reminds me much of the Whitehall.....when I look at the tucked up stern and what I think is a deadwood skeg, I am thinking traditional wherry.

Best,
David

[ddeaton]

David, I kinda agree with you. I picked this as my first boat to build 2 yrs ago. At that time I didnt know what any of these boats were, I just liked the looks of the P17. I still dont know much, but we took a liken to the catboats. I have read so much on the forum about how bad a whitehall or wherry sails. They were designed to row well and sail back after the days fishing. But all that have sailed a P17 say they sail very well. I hope so.

[JimD]

On the subject of sailing whitehalls and other small open boats take a look at the Raid Finland website. I've seen the full length video on tv and these boats really fly.

http://www.whitehallrow.com/articles/raid_finland_2005.php

[David Geiss]

DDeaton:

Yes, it's a smashing looking boat and I hear only good things about Arch. How far along are you? Building glued lap or clenched sans epoxy?

Did you buy the study plans first and, if so, was it a worthy purchase?

I'm clearing out inventory of small boats I am not using with the goal of making room, simplifying so I can focus upon a longer term undertaking like the P17.

I'm going to go through prior threads as I'm betting that there are observations on rig choices and sailing behavior of the P17.

If looks are anything, and usually they are, I'm guessing it's a versatile and capable boat.

Best,
David

[Miami Mike]

Hello,

Just saw this post. I'd like to jump in and add that as a first time builder I found the plans and video for the Penobscot 14 extremely helpful. The fact that there are several completed boats by people who are fairly regular posters to the forum helps immensely too in my opinion.

I would also suggest calling Arch Davis and asking him about stretching the 17.

Good Luck!
(and enjoy yourself)

Mike

[ddeaton]

David, I built glued lapstrake. I think most others did also. I agree with Mike, the book and video were a big help. This was my first build, and I am hooked now. Laying out the planks was a breeze, although I didnt learn to spile with this one.

[David Geiss]

Thanks ddeaton:

Sounds as glued lap is the way to build despite romanticized notions to the contrary.

How is your P17 rigged? I am thinking about a high peaked standing lug fore (boomless but with a whisker pole for running before the wind or perhaps a sprit boom) and a shoulder of mutton for mizzen. Ability to depower by sailing with the fore rig only (raked aft perhaps), sailing with a reefed fore rig and full mizzen, sailing with the fore rig reefed alone, and lastly a dedicated storm sail to be used in the fore position.

In deference to John Leather, recently passed, I'm re-reading "Sail and Oar"....chapter 9 on rigs for smal open boats is definitely worth a read or two or three.......

What are the forum members' recent observations on how the P17 sails and rows? I'm guessing sweeps of around 8'?

Best,
David

[David Geiss]

BTW...John Leather's Ch 16 is also real informative on the topic of oars and rowlocks/DES

[ddeaton]

David,
I am going with the gunter rig. I have all the gear, just looking for more time to finish it.

[David Gilroy]

Dear DDeaton,
I've been sailing my Penobscot 17 for two summers now, usually out of Guilford (CT)Harbor on Long Island Sound. I love her. I hasten to add that I did not build her hull, only made the spars. Those are of white spruce I cut in Maine. I've rigged her with the lug ketch, with the modification suggested in the WoodenBoat Designs article, which is to rig the mizzen as a sprit rather than a regular boomed sail. The lug main has a lot of power, I like how it all stows inside the boat, there's lot's of choices on how much sail to carry, and most importantly, it looks sexy. I've come close a couple times to being knocked down by big gusts, but so far she's come back from the brink each time. I feel safe in her. I have a Honda 2hp that drives her very well. I'm trying to think of some way to rig her seats so I can sleep on them, and I'm trying to figure out how to rig a tent on her. I have visions of the Maine Island Trail some day, which she was expressly designed for, and who knows where else. My one question for you is, what kind of trailer do you have your's on? The trailer I have now is really too big and heavy for her.

[Thorne]

See the other PB thread for trailer info -

http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=51696&highlight=trailer

[ddeaton]

Thanks Thorne, I was going to try to dig up that thread.
Danny

[Tom W.]

I completed my Penob 17 this spring. It was great to build and even more fun to sail. I haven't had it out in a really big blow yet, but up to about 15 knots wind it handles extremely well. I used the gunter rig. The sail pulls hard and when close hauled it sails very close to the wind. About trailers, I have it on a trailex trailer, and am not thrilled wiht the trailer. It is well designed and made, but the boat sits high and it is sometimes hard to launch because it has to go so far into the water to get the boat floating. But as far as the boat goes, you won't be sorry for choosing this boat, I'm pretty sure.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pb1ef5d739aaa4eea1061061b967b2ad3/ee639721.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/p63f4d29aaeb5bee061220fd93e1a9a5f/ee6396f1.jpg

[katiedobe]

Great Photos Tom. Please post more or give us a link to your online folder.
You guys and your finished Penobs are an inspiration to me. Now I need to go out and finish the QE 16 so I can start on the Penobscots. Which should I build first the 14 or the 17? I bought plans and bulkheads for the 17 and plans and station forms for the 14. I am leaning towards the 17.
More photos of completed Arch Davis 14's and 17's please.

[Tom W.]

Jimmy:
the 14 and the 17 are quite different boats in terms of interior layout. I really like the 17 because it can accomodate 4 or even 5 (I had 5 on her yesterday and she handled great) and it is a bit heavier and stable in stronger winds. I haven't sailed the 14 but it has more open space than the 17. Because I know Arch Davis' designs and assume the 14 is as seaworthy as the 17, and having read many really good experiences by other builders of that boat, I am sure the 14 is a great boat, too. It undoubtably is less expensive to build because it's smaller. I figure I spent about $4500 in materials not including the trailer but including the sails on building the 17, and lumber is even more pricey today than last year when I bought the bulk of the materials.
If you already have the bulkheads and plans go build the 17. You will not regret it.
More pictures are here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115788013

PS: I am cuirous about the Maine Island Trail. Any more info on that?

[almeyer]

Jimmy,
Here's a couple of pics of the 14 I built. The plans show several sail rig options, including a gunter sloop which seems to be the most common, but I like the easy set-up and single sheet that the standing lug offers. Admittedly, performance in light air should be better with the gunter sloop, but I'm very pleased with what I've got. A comfortable capacity on the 14 seems to be two adults and a small child when sailing, maybe another adult when rowing. I sail solo a lot of the time, and the rig works well for that - one hand on the sheet, one on the tiller, and leave the cell phone at the dock. The rig also works well when sailing under a reef; I can't tell any difference in helm balance.
Tom's got a nice photo album, and he's right, construction of the interior is very different on the 14 versus the 17. But both result in a nice boat. If I'm smart enough, I'll try to attach a link to my album.
Al
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid175/p87bc1aab6393e6b2341219d75fe638b8/f3839ac3.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid172/paea9d21ecdf6ae85dc0ad8a4dbb070c3/f3cae083.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid172/paea9d21ecdf6ae85dc0ad8a4dbb070c3/f3cae083.jpg

[David Geiss]

Al:

Wee Lass is a jaunty looking vessel and I really like the standing lug.

Somehow I'm drawn to the sleeker P17 (less beam and freeboard proportionate to loa); but as a predominantly solo sailor (weighing under 200lbs) I'm thinking that the PB 17 won't sit on its lines with just me in the bilge. I'm also thinking that the helm position on the PB 17 is pretty far aft for a solo sailor.

Any ideas on which route would make more sense:

-P17 with it rigged as a yawl somehow (along the lines of Welsford's Walkabout...bringing the tiller more amidships), to be sailed solo and occasionally with a total of 2 to 3 aboard, or
- P14, which I'd likely rig with a standing lug and which I think would look too cutesy with fore and aft rigs.

I think I am leaning toward the P17 with the fore rig in that I could rig a tent/rowing top more easily with the fore and aft spars in place.

This will be my first sail/row vessel and I want to get it right.

Best,
David

[Tom W.]

One thing I have come to appreciate is the gunter rig, with the jib smoothing out the air around the mainsail. It may not be the easiest rig to set up but once on the water it is fairly elemental. It pulls very well in light winds, too, which has been the case of late. I put in two positions for the jib sheet on my 17, one for solo sailing and one for more than 1. The forward position gives a fuller jib for running, and the aft position is much easier to manipulate from the helm. I haven't had any experience with the yawl rig. My post previously on this subject shows the two positions in the knees, one forward of the other, where the jib sheet gets pulled through and the clam cleats aft of the knees. Here's a shot of the jib and mainsail from my daughter's point of view, from the forward cockpit where she likes to sit:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid208/pa5ac0fb4adc37dc7bcb8a65cdf7d83d8/ee5dfe5b.jpg
I really love this boat.

[StevenBauer]

Hey Tom, I saw your note briefly before we left this morning. Your 17 would be great for the Maine Island Trail. I'm a member but haven't really done much exploring yet. have you been to their website?

www.mita.org

Steven

[Tom W.]

Steven:
I have visited the website and dream of sailing the length of it. It may happen, but not for a while. I will be out there someday, and maybe we can link up.

[almeyer]

I agree, David, the P17 looks a little sleeker with it's greater loa:beam ratio. I got the study plans for both the P14 and P17 before deciding on the P14. For me, it was the right boat, but that doesn't stop me from admiring the work of Tom and other builders of P17s.
I'll leave it to others to comment on how the P17 handles solo, I simply don't know having not sailed one before. If you're interested in twin-masted rigs, the study plans for the P17 show a ketch rig with a balanced lug main and a schooner rig with two balanced lugs. I'd be hesitant about putting a twin masted rig on the P14, or making any serious rig changes on either boat without consulting Arch first.
Al