McGruer Lorne Class 28' Sloop

[KAIROS]

Hello. I own a wood 28 ft. McGruer designed and built Lorne Class Sloop (1964, Scotland). There were 8 of these built in the 1960's per the register of boats on the McGruer website (http://www.mcgruer-boats.co.uk/html/company.html), bottom of page. There is one shown on the cover photo of the February 2002 Cruising World also (Malindi).

Does anyone know of any others? I am scouring the various sources for more information. I mainly want to make contact, but also look forward to sharing knowledge on everything to do with the boat.

Ours is ABLE (ex KAIROS, built as NYMPH of Lorne), previously sailed out of Scotland and British Columbia. Photos at http://www.yachtflyers.com/ABLE/.

Thanks.

[SkipperTom]

Wow you have a nice looking boat. Looks almost like a Contessa 26 in wood.

[roybeeby@tiscali.co.uk]

Hi,
I was browsing the web the other week and came across your boat Kairos which I knew back in the 70s as Nymph of Lorne.
I was a student at the time and worked in my Easter and Summer holidays for Colin Tindal, a well known yachtsman in the Oban area who was then the owner of Nymph. She was his personal boat but he also owned a second Lorne called Teko which was the hotel charter boat, although Nymph was also used for this. Colin sold Nymph in 1976 to a member of the Royal Yacht Squadron at Cowes, Isle of Wight for the princely sum of 3,500 pounds.
I also sailed on Phaselus of Lorne which was jointly owned by an ex-naval officer called Commander Kekowitch[ I never found out his christian name as he was always called Kek for short] and a retired Guards officer whose name I can't remember. I last saw Phaselus in the storage compound at Troon marina, Ayrshire, Scotland in very poor condition, with rot beginning to appear in the hull and the splines working loose between the planks. It was, unfortunately the usual story of an owner not prepared to sell but not able to afford the upkeep. That would be about five years ago now and heaven alone knows what state she is in now- hopefully someone has made the owner an offer he couldn't refuse and started to fettle her!
Melindi of Lorne for many years was kept in storage at the Crinan Boatyard, and just recently was advertised for sale in the Crinan area[at Ardfern actually] and was only in one issue of Classic Boat so I presume someone with good taste snapped her up.
The only other Lorne class boat that I know of sadly is no more. Wind of Lorne, which in the 70s was based in Mull was by the time of her demise in Northern Ireland and broke free from her moorings in Carrickfergus in a gale, drifted the 21 miles across the North Channel and came ashore on the Scottish coast in Galloway. Only the keel and engine were recovered. This happened on the night of September 19th, 1983.
I'm sorry I don't have any up to date information on any of the boats but I hope the info I've given will help to fill in some gaps in the history.
You can probably imagine how thrilled I was to see the photographs of Nymph- sorry Kairos, and all the memories of many happy hours sailing in her came flooding back. You certainly keep her looking well and I can only assume that you love her as much as I did - and still do!

[KAIROS]

Thanks, Roy! I just noticed your reply here. What a wealth of information you have on these boats. We recognized the sweetness of this boat right away, yet it has a certain northern European character (maybe McGruer's challenge to the Folkboat) which takes some getting used to. I grew up with a New England designed, Maine built boat. My experience is that most people find her interesting, and then she grows on them.

We are doing a pretty complete restoration and refit. Stripped everything, renewed the teak deck seams and bungs, new deck fittings, new engine, new sails, new cockpit, new windlass, etc. etc. We did sail her for a summer before we got into it, and the memory of what a well performing boat she is keeps us going.

The man who you mentioned bought her for 3500 lbs, sailed her from Britain to British Columbia via the Panama Canal and Hawaii. George passed on, and a Vancouver BC family owned her before we found her 2 years ago. She is such a marvelous sailing boat, and well built. We've been over every centimeter of her inside and out now, and found issues only with modifications that occurred after McGruer's built her.

Glad to make your acquaintance, and we look forward to more exchanges. Here' a link to some recent photos during the restoration:

http://www.yachtflyers.com/ABLE/

Jack & Deb & ABLE

[roybeeby@tiscali.co.uk]

Hello again from Roy. Got your reply today. I was interested to hear that Kairos made it across "the pond" on her own bottom- it just proves what a fine little ship she really is. You're not the first person to make the link with the folkboat. I had an amusing little incident when I was sailing with Kek in Phaselus. We were lying in Phuladobhrain [pronounced Puldorran] anchorage just south of Oban when a chap went past in a rubber dinghy and commented that she looked just like a big folkboat. I agreed and the next I knew was this annoyed voice from the heads saying " do you want to walk back to the b****y hotel?" Obviously I had put my foot in it big time! Skipper Tom I note makes the link to the Contessa 26. In my opinion the Contessa WAS influenced by the Folkboat but in later years I encountered Kim Holman's Twister design and I think the Lornes have more of an affinity with them, so much so that if you saw the two designs out of the water you would be hard put to tell them apart. The photos of the refit were interesting, especially the one of the engine. It looked like the Volvo Penta MD 1 that was in the boat when I was sailing her.
As a matter of interest, when you were scraping the hull back to bare wood did you notice the dowels covering the copper nails? The grain of every single dowel followed exactly the line of the grain of the planks. This was because Nymph was McGruer's Earls Court Boat Show exhibit in 1964/5 [I think] and they went to a great deal of trouble over getting her as near perfect as possible and I think that is attention to detail over and above the call of duty!! I see you've decided to paint her white. The only other boat to be painted originally was Wind, all the others being varnished. Whilst I personally prefer varnish, their such good looking boats that they look just as good painted- and a lot less hassle to keep looking good of course. As a matter of interest, when you've been on the McGruer website did you notice the photos of Talisker of Lorne? She was Colin Tindal's replacement for Nymph and I was privileged to go down to Clynder to see her while she was being built. It was the first and so far only time I've been in a traditional boatyard and it was a fascinating experience.
It has just come to me that I have some photo slides of Nymph that I took when I was with her and, of course, show the area in which she sailed. You might be interested to see these, so if you are, let me know and I will get my tame computer geek [my daughter-in-law's brother] to help me post them. Looking forward to hearing fom you.
Roy.

[rread]

Interested in your correspondence on the Lorne class. I was a student living in Scotland at the time they were built and sailed frequently over a couple of summers on Wind of Lorne. She was built for an Edinburgh merchant , Alistair Campbell, who's family I knew well. As I recall ( and contrary to another posting) it was "Wind " that was the London showboat not "Nymph", and I think that I may be able to verify that when I get home to Australia in a couple of weeks.
"Wind" spent most of her summers sailing out of Tayvallich Bay , about 15 miles or so south of Colin Tyndall's hotel , where "Nymph" was based.

The output from McGruer's yard was prolific in those days , with Lorne class yacht building interspersed with the 8CR class , which was booming at that time also

[elfin]

Hi Jack

We're now registered with the Forum, so at the risk of repeating what I put in my e-mail to you I reprint below for other McGruer fans:

Hi Kairos

I discovered the thread on Lorne class McGruer boats only yesterday, joined the WoodenBoats forum today but remain unable to fully join in.

In the meantime, you may be pleased to know that a friend and I recently bought Elfin of Lorne and are currently carrying out extensive repair work to her with the plan to have her back in the water at Crinan, near Oban, at the end of next month. It's our first boat, so wish us luck ...!

Elfin was in the water until 2006 when she was taken out and put up for sale by her then owners when they bought a bigger McGruer boat, Talisker.

Will keep in touch and post photos in due course.

Elfin

[goodbasil]

There was one at the Vancouver Wooden Boat Show for the last 2 or 3 years anyway. May well be there again this year. (August) Or is yours the one I'm talking about?

[KAIROS]

There was one at the Vancouver Wooden Boat Show for the last 2 or 3 years anyway. May well be there again this year. (August) Or is yours the one I'm talking about?


That was our boat ABLE, then named Kairos (ex Nymph). At the time she was owned by a Vancouver-ite. We bought her from him. It must have been 4 or 5 years ago......time flies.

We are nearing the end of a long, thorough restoration project. Thanks, Roy! I just noticed your reply here. What a wealth of information you have on these boats. We recognized the sweetness of this boat right away, yet it has a certain northern European character (maybe McGruer's challenge to the Folkboat) which takes some getting used to. I grew up with a New England designed, Maine built boat. My experience is that most people find her interesting, and then she grows on them.

We are doing a pretty complete restoration and refit. Stripped everything, renewed the teak deck seams and bungs, new deck fittings, new engine, new sails, new cockpit, new windlass, etc. etc. We did sail her for a summer before we got into it, and the memory of what a well performing boat she is keeps us going.

The man who you mentioned bought her for 3500 lbs, sailed her from Britain to British Columbia via the Panama Canal and Hawaii. George passed on, and a Vancouver BC family owned her before we found her 2 years ago. She is such a marvelous sailing boat, and well built. We've been over every centimeter of her inside and out now, and found issues only with modifications that occurred after McGruer's built her.

Glad to make your acquaintance, and we look forward to more exchanges. Here' a link to some recent photos during the restoration:

Thanks, Roy! I just noticed your reply here. What a wealth of information you have on these boats. We recognized the sweetness of this boat right away, yet it has a certain northern European character (maybe McGruer's challenge to the Folkboat) which takes some getting used to. I grew up with a New England designed, Maine built boat. My experience is that most people find her interesting, and then she grows on them.

We are doing a pretty complete restoration and refit. Stripped everything, renewed the teak deck seams and bungs, new deck fittings, new engine, new sails, new cockpit, new windlass, etc. etc. We did sail her for a summer before we got into it, and the memory of what a well performing boat she is keeps us going.

The man who you mentioned bought her for 3500 lbs, sailed her from Britain to British Columbia via the Panama Canal and Hawaii. George passed on, and a Vancouver BC family owned her before we found her 2 years ago. She is such a marvelous sailing boat, and well built. We've been over every centimeter of her inside and out now, and found issues only with modifications that occurred after McGruer's built her.

Glad to make your acquaintance, and we look forward to more exchanges. Here' a link to some recent photos during the restoration:

http://www.yachtflyers.com/ABLE/

[KAIROS]

....... in later years I encountered Kim Holman's Twister design and I think the Lornes have more of an affinity with them, so much so that if you saw the two designs out of the water you would be hard put to tell them apart. .....Roy.

It is likely that the Lorne class design inspired the Twister, no? I think the Lorne drawings came first. James McGruer designed the Lorne Class in 1960 I think the Twister is mid-60s. Anyway, people around here think she looks like a larger folkboat......they have never seen a Twister.

[elfin]

Hey again,

We went up to Crinan this weekend to see her. We discovered that she probably needed about 3 more weeks of work on her before she can go into the water. So... a little disapointing, but it will be worth the wait! We saw that new that new hand rails had been ordered and were waiting to be put in and that the rebuilding of the starboard side lockers had been completed! She is getting there!

Elfin

[elfin]

:D Yes! She is in the water and we have been in for your first sail. Unfotunetly i can t show you the pics but she looks great!

[KAIROS]

We're finally sailing again!!! THANKS for all the advice from you all here. There's more to do though, of course, so I'll still be pestering you....

Here's a summary of the boat and how the restoration has gone so far (the website was created for the Port Townsend Festival):

http://www.yachtflyers.com/ABLE/

Jack

[KAIROS]

This is a long post...at least there are a couple of photos at the end if my ramblings are too tedious. The photos are compliments of the owners of two sisterships.

---------------------------

I have made contact with 3 other of the 8 sisterships. That's 4 including my boat. We are already sharing valuable information which should help these boats continue to sail indefinitely. It is worth finding sisterships. Two of them, ELFIN and TEKO are shown in recent photos, below. Both are in Scottish waters still.

It is also worth tracking down the original drawings. I have a copy of ABLE's drawings. Over time, as I compared the drawings to ABLE sitting in the water, I became convinced that her trim and waterline had been changed since launching. She looked somewhat down-by-the-stern in real life and her mast looked overly raked.

First I thought that maybe the trim and mast rake were adjusted when the first of her class was launched, to balance the boat (a design rarely sails as perfectly on the water as in a designer's head). This might account for the difference between the drawings and the actual boat. Then I noticed that ABLE's past owners (probably) had drilled small drain holes through the toe-rail farther aft than, and in addition to, the original scuppers (also shown in the construction plan).

Then I thought, how can I verify what I'm thinking? Sure, her deck had not been draining correctly and she looked down-by-the-stern, but I didn't have enough confidence in my assessment....and the thought of changing her waterline, after we had just completely refinished the hull (using the same waterline she had when we bought her) was a bit nauseating. Much easier to just go sailing.

But, at least I had to know how much the waterline might have been changed. If the change was gross and was required for the boat to sail well, I would have thought less of her design and her designer.

Luckily, even though ABLE is a sailboat, there is one straight line in her profile drawing (lines and sailplan) besides the waterline. In the drawings, her transom is flat and raked aft exactly 45 degrees from the waterline. Since 45 is an easy angle to reproduce in the building shed, I bet the boat was actually built just so.

We made a raft with a batten sticking up at 45 degrees from one end, and floated it so it almost touched the transom. We trimmed ABLE by ballasting her down forward until her transom formed the 45-degree angle with the waterline indicated in the drawings.

The (freshly scribed, wooded, and) painted waterline at the transom was about 8" above the water. And, the waterline at the stem was submerged 3". In a displacement boat of this length (9500 lbs., 22' waterline length) this seemed worth worrying about, for performance reasons and since in this more down-by-the-head trim the deck drained properly through the original scuppers. Deck leaks are the death of most wood boats. Even small pools of water on deck are trouble.

Then, photos sent to me from owners of other Lorne Class boats verified what I was finding. The other Lorne's were trimmed about like the drawings. We felt we were beginning to really understand the boat. As we rebuild ABLE's interior we'll keep her trim in mind.

More confident now, when we stepped the mast anew we positioned it so the rake was as specified by the designer. To do this, we stood the mast more upright to the extent that the backstays (doubles) were 6" inches too short. Luckily I had not replaced the standing rig yet!

We went sailing with this (vastly) different trim and rake than she had when we bought her. Beyond reason, she was beautifully balanced under sail just as she had been before any changes. I can imagine that ABLE may perform better now than she has in years too, but maybe more important for her longevity is that her deck drains properly.

That the balance remained near-perfect initially seemed amazing, but then I remembered: when moving a sailboat's center of lateral resistance forward (trim) you must also move the center of effort forward (mast rake)....if you want to maintain balance.

Now ABLE has a trim and mast rake very close to the design and other Lorne's, and perfect balance in a broad range of conditions, even with ridiculous combinations of sails (I can almost always steer holding the tiller between two fingers).

I can also explain her old trim, probably, because past owners have passed along ABLE's history. In 1979 she was refit and loaded down for the crossing from Britain to British Columbia. A heavy custom windvane (likely near 85 lbs.) was hung off her transom, and other cruising gear and supplies stuffed into every space including cockpit lockers and quarter-berths.

Painting a new waterline was, maybe, simpler than figuring out how to make her trim more reasonable. When the stern settled 8", they stepped the mast with much more rake to keep her balanced under sail. The standing rig on her now, with the backstays 6" short, is the rig put on new for the ocean crossings.

Only conjecture. The refit in 1979 was done at Mashford's Boatyard (Britain). They were famous then for their work in preparing ocean racers for sea (Chichester, etc). Given their reputation I am surprised they made significant changes in waterline and mast rake. Maybe the owner insisted or it was done by a previous owner. Maybe ABLE's relatively tiny size made her too sensitive to get the trim worked out for extensive cruising.

This is one example of how valuable it is to have the drawings, have access to information about sisterships, and to know a boat's history. They've shed light on dozens of other mysteries or issues, and helped us feel that we know our wonderful wood sailboat intimately. The Forum here has contributed much too.

And, what a mess of fun! What an education! Stimulating! We would be having a very different experience if we owned a Catalina 30. Hurray for old wood boats!

ELFIN of Lorne below........
http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/elfin_email.jpg

TEKO below, on Loch Eribol......


http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/Teko_LochEribol_email.jpg

[Alan H]

Oh, dear lord, she's ruddy gorgeous.