Enlarged Shearwater

[Clinton B Chase]

I just learned that the skin-on-frame double ender in the current issue is based on an "enlarged sheawater" design. Is there such a set of plans? I have thought about doing the Sheatwater and stretching her a foot but if there are plans for an enlarged version I'd like to see them. What's the word?

Cheers,
Clint

[gert]

Do a search on this; there is indeed a "stretched" Shearwater, she surfaces periodicaly here. I think some one actualy managed to get plans...

[almeyer]

Get out your high-powered reading glasses with the telephoto lens. At the end of the article, in small italic print, it says that plans are available at Brooklin Boat Yard, PO Box 143, Brooklin, ME 04616. That makes sense, the Shearwater is a Joel White design.

I enjoyed the article too. The biography on Joel White (available from our host) gave me the impression that the original Shearwater is a little tender under sail, primarily designed for rowing. But the WB article leads me to think that the 18-footer sails fine. The skin-on-frame construction seems interesting as well. I went googling, and the reference book for this type of construction seems to be "Building Skin-on-Frame Boats" by Robert Morris. Gonna have to borrow that book from the library.

Al

[htom]

Not so much stretched (although longer); the greater Shearwater is flat-bottomed (well, plank on side.) Joel White "rethought" the Shearwater.

Search isn't bringing it up. :(

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002682

cached at

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:H9oSaQmQGOsJ:media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%3Bf%3D2%3Bt%3D002 682+shearwater+htom&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

[Clinton B Chase]

I never did read the article...too excited to search the forum for info on this bigger Shearwater...this looks to be a nice boat but isn't as beautiful as the original Shearwater lines-wise...but sur would be a fun all around boat. Dias's Harrier and this enlarged Shearwater are very close in design...it would be neat to take both out and compare...thanks for the links above htom, very helpful. So has anybody done the big Shearwater after all that discussion?

Clint

[David Geiss]

Skip Snaith's "Umiak" is also a good reference for skin on frame open boat design/construction. Not technical but very inspiring.
Very good drawings and frame construction insights.



Best,
David

[Hwyl]

Clint, at the end of the article it says "Plans for the 18' Shearwater are available from Brooklin Boatyard, P.O. Box 143 Brooklin, Maine 04146.

Congrats on the job at compass BTW, is this boat going to be for them?

[Steve Paskey]

This information was lost in the transition to the new BB, so here it is again.

Some time ago (late last year or early this year?) I personally spoke to Robert Stevens, the chief designer at the Brooklin Boat Yard. Plans are available from BBY at the address above. Send a check for $75 to Robert's attention.

[htom]

Text of the previous thread, part 1 of 2.

Topic: "stretched" Shearwater? Anyone seen it/read about it?
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ErikH 06-16-2003 03:02 PM

I hear that Joel White designed a slightly larger Shearwater, 18' in length... I assume it's also good looking, but probably faster and a tad more carrying capacity. Has anybody seen one? Seen plans for one? Were I to build a Shearwater, I might go for the extra 2' if it wasn't much harder to do...
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Ben Fuller 06-16-2003 05:16 PM

He did, it's nice and lives up here in midcoast Maine somewhere. Designed for two people and their small kids. Original couple sold the boat as kids were getting larger. Two people row. Single lug sail. Joel lengthened the boat, widened it a bit by giving it a flat bottom board. A better boat than the smaller one, certainly faster and more generally useful. It's Joel's real last design.
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ErikH 06-16-2003 05:19 PM

Hmm. How would one find plans, I wonder? Anyone know?
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htom 06-16-2003 05:59 PM

The 18' Shearwater is flat bottomed?

Oh joy! Dreams DO come true.

Please, please, where?
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ErikH 06-16-2003 06:56 PM

I found this on yahoo searching "joel white shearwater 18":

Joel White's last design was an expansion of his popular rowing and sailing 16' Shearwater. Commissioned by Gary Fogg and built by Eric Dow, the result is an 18' double-ender with a single standing lug sail, and a beaching weight of 200 pounds. A small plank keel makes rolling her up easy, while removable thwarts and a dagger board give plenty of room for sleeping. "A very able rowing, sailing vessel for short excursions, and for protected and semi-protected waters. The spars and sail stow in the bow when rowing, or the mast can be left standing and the sail rolled up while rowing in a calm. Hoisting and lowering sail with the standing lug on open ocean with swells and even moderate winds (15 knots or so) is dangerous. We prefer to hoist and lower the sail in protected sides of the islands before sailing out. The vessel is better for a crew of two than four because of space limitations, especially with camping equipment. Under a knockdown, the vessel rolls over on her sides comfortably and then comes back up again without terrifying movements, since her hull is essentially round in correction and her center of effort is low. Still, I don't recommend getting into a knockdown in big waves or open ocean." Gary recommends a little mizzen to help hold an open boat into the wind when sail handling in rough seas. She is wetter than their Whitehall and provides a bouncier ride while being faster and easier to row.

mmm... sounds nice. Plank keel not flat bottom exactly... that's all I can find. I heard somewhere (here?) that a WB had an above-the-waterline drawing of her a while back.
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Steve Paskey 06-16-2003 07:35 PM

I've never seen the plans offered for sale, or any reference as to where one might get the plans. Best bet might be to call Steve White or Bob Stevens at the Brooklyn Boat Yard.
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Ben Fuller 06-16-2003 11:06 PM

What was found on the internet was what I wrote up about the boat in an article I did on beach cruisers. Like all of Joel's designs they are available by contacting Steve White / Rob Stevens in Brooklin Maine.

If you look through your classifieds in WB maybe two years ago, you will find pics. I think that the profile was in one of the articles about Joel, check WB index on this site.
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ErikH 06-17-2003 07:47 AM

I emailed the brooklin boat yard. I'll post again when I get a reply.
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htom 06-18-2003 05:26 PM

Eagerly awaiting a response.

Ok, not flat bottomed, like double-ended Pooduck Skiff; I can live with a plank rather than the plank-on-edge of the original. Enough flat that she'll rest upright on a beach.
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ErikH 06-19-2003 09:46 PM

1) Emailed Brooklin BY. Got response from Steve White which basically said "never heard of it"

2) called up original owner and he said "yup, it sure existed". He told me all about it. Swore plans existed.

3) Emailed Steve White again, with new ex-owner-supplied information to help in finding the plans.

No response yet, hopefully next week sometime...
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Venchka 06-20-2003 10:33 AM

ErikH,

If you hit a dead end on the mythical 18' stretched Shearwater, there are several similar boats available. Ben Fuller's Antonio Dias designed Harrier comes to mind. Iain Oughtred has 3 double ended beach boats in the 17'-6" to 18'-6" range, 4 if you count the very nice Ness Yawl at 19'-3".
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Steven Bauer 06-20-2003 10:40 PM

Atkin's Valgerda is a beauty, too. 18.5', three planks per side. Search for the recent thread discussing these boats.
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htom

Valgera, while a beauty, would be more than a handful for a single rower. A Ness Yole would have much the same problem; "too much".

The others (at least to my eye) are sailboats with oarlocks. Beautiful sailing boats, but they're broadened to be sailboats, not rowing boats. Shearwater is a rowboat, with a sail. A Chamberlain Gunning Dory might be a good subsitute (and, for my purposes, flat-bottomed) but heavier than either of Joel White's designs.
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ErikH 06-23-2003 11:04 AM

As per old owner/commissioner, he spent a lot of time with Joel trying to make this perfect for him... rows well, quite safe, weighs only 200 pounds (probably explains why it rows well). Standing lug rig.

Sigh. The more interesting this sounds, the more it hurts to wait for Steve White's reply lol

Of course, I could be let down when the plans arrive and it's as hard as a caledonia yawl [Smile]
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Bill Perkins 06-23-2003 12:21 PM

I launched next to this boat at the ramp near Linconville Beach 3 or 4 years ago . I don't know if I was speaking to the first or second owners ,but I believe they lived nearby . I didn't realize the boat was the stretched version till they told me .She looks very similar indeed to the Shearwater I thought .

We were in the lee of the rounded hills above ,and some awkward puffy down drafts were coming off them . It was really smoother sailing once we got offshore .
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Venchka 06-23-2003 12:37 PM

quote:Originally posted by ErikH:
...Of course, I could be let down when the plans arrive and it's as hard as a caledonia yawl [Smile]

What's hard about any of Iain's double-ended boats? Bigger, yes. Extra planks, sure. I doubt they are any more difficult to build. There is a gentleman in Yarmouth, ME who built both a Shearwater & a Caledonia Yawl. You would never get him to part with the Caledonia Yawl.

The last 3 years there has been a Shearwater tied up at the dock at the Wooden Boat Show in Biloxi, MS. It's small. Quite small. A pulling boat for sure. After looking at it for 2 years, I took it off my list.

I'll stick to my original suggestion-a Whilly boat at 15'-6" or a Ness boat at either 16'-6" or 17'-6" will row well enough and sail nicely. More boat for those times when you find yourself someplace where you shouldn't be.

Gardner's plywood gunning dory in The Dory Book is a good choice as well.
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ErikH 06-23-2003 01:06 PM

Funny you should mention it... I was just looking at a set of caledonia plans over the weekend (my stepdad owns them) and comparing the plans with the Shearwater ones I own. The Caledonia is a LOT more complex, and probably (definitely?) way beyond my current abilities. The shearwater is, as you've noted, small. Not TOO small necessarily, but an extra 2 feet might make her great. if i can ever see her lines. sigh.
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Tomcat 06-26-2003 02:40 PM

I always loved the look of the Shearwater, but found the example at the wooden boat school not all that great to row. Just seemed like work. I guess I like a slightly narrower hull, but i supose it depends on how much you want to sail her also. A bigger fatter one would not be something I would look forward to rowing by myself.
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htom 06-27-2003 01:36 PM

Two feet longer and only a couple of inches wider would result in a "slimmer" boat. Six inches would be about the same.
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Tomcat 06-28-2003 02:19 PM

True. I wasn't specificaly comparing the hull fineness, and should have chosen a word more carefully. It would be interesting to see whether the shape is improved by these changes. On paper those are finer, in the water she may have a higher wetted surface than the smaller boat, assuming a crew of one or two. The imersed sections of this boat are no bargain, while the topsides are pretty nice to look at. Bad combo in the real world.
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Canoeyawl 06-28-2003 06:02 PM

I have seen purchased plans for the Shearwater 18 and recently observed one being built in San Francisco. Joel’s construction plans were strong, simple, and efficient, as usual. This boat was built to slightly heavier scantlings in record time with a minimum of lofting, and rigged as a yawl anticipating the strong afternoon breeze encountered on San Francisco bay. She performs well. I was on a cruise a few weeks ago in company with this 18 footer and an original 16 ft. version. The larger one appears to be very capable with two or three persons and some gear onboard. The displacement and freeboard for the 18 are visibly greater than the16, assuming that both boats were built to their lines. I cannot comment on any comparisons under oars, but they both are lovely, weatherly and fast under sail.
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(continues)

[htom]

(concludes) Part 2 of 2:

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ErikH 07-08-2003 09:25 PM

Had an amusing series of emails with Steve White. He said at first that he didn't have the plans; i figured they were just lost in a pile with no simple ID information. But even after I tracked down the original owner, who steered me to the current owner, who gave me the exact plan year and number, Steve STILL couldn't find them. He did, however, give me permission to get a copy from the original owner.

How on earth could the yard have lost the plans? Sigh. The current owner thinks they may want to downplay the boat, because saying that the w-class was Joel's last design is a good marketing strategy... even if, as he thinks, the 18' was designed later than the w classes. I think it must have just been an accident.

In any case I'll try to persuade the current owner that no, I'm not a scofflaw trying to steal them and that yes, I have permission from Steve White to get copies and will happily forward the emails. He seems like sort of a suspicious guy; wish me luck [Smile]

Anyway, I'll write more once I get the plans in hand; it may take a couple of weeks.
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htom 07-08-2003 11:49 PM

Market it as the tender for the W's. It sounds like there are already as many "big Shearwaters" as there are W's.
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Bill Perkins 07-09-2003 12:18 AM

htom: Pity all | The ancient Ceasers | They pulled each seperate |hair with tweesers |

As told to me by my father.
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htom 07-09-2003 12:36 PM

That one was from 1934, boarded thusly:

PITY ALL
THE MIGHTY CAESARS
THEY PULLED
EACH WHISKER OUT
WITH TWEEZERS
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ErikH 07-09-2003 07:13 PM

Sigh. Although Steve charges very little for his plans ($50), the current owner, who is seeming to be more and more of an ass, wants $50 to copy them and mail them to me.

Just on principle, I'm not that happy about paying some guy $50 to run off plans. I think I'll try to see who else might have a set...
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Venchka 07-10-2003 02:27 PM

Whoa!

I don't know how many sheets and what size you are talking about, BUT. It cost me about $25 to make a copy of the caledonia yawl plans with pickup & delivery at my office. One of the advantages of working in an industrial wasteland.

If the gentleman who has the plans has to travel to/from the reproduction shop, purchase a mailing tube & then mail them to you, $50 doesn't seem TOTALLY out of line. Posts: 3290 | From: Belle Chasse, LA | IP: Logged
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htom 07-27-2003 01:24 PM

Number 57, with a sketch, on page 51 of #147. Daggerboard case between the first two (of four) thwarts.
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ErikH 07-28-2003 11:59 AM

hmm, that makes me feel a bit better I suppose. I guess I'm surprised that he would even charge for his time. I've done similar things for others, and my 'costs' are usually calculated just before I ship.

But maybe it's worth the $50.

I'm looking for a boat taht will sail well. I love the caledonia yawl. but it's beyond my skills and space. I think the SS may be a good fit.
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Venchka 07-28-2003 05:00 PM

Have you given serious thought to Iain Oughtred's J-II at 18'-1" L.O.A.?

Or, Antonio Dias's Harrier at 17'-6" L.O.A.?
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Bill Perkins 07-28-2003 11:25 PM

Eric if that's what the plans would cost in any case I think you're just spiteing yourself .Buy the plans and , if you wish , make them available to others on the terms You deem correct (if the designers heirs realy have no interest , or can't Find them ).
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gert 07-29-2003 10:34 AM

You realy want plans from the original source. Plans tend to get a bit ratty around the shop. I made a copy of my shearwater (16') plans and wanted to use them in the shop till I discovered they had "shrunk" in the reporoduction proccess. I wish I had known there was an 18' shearwater before I built Carina, she could be a bit longer, there is realy only room for one passenger, but she sails wonderfully. I am looking at Joel's "Fox Island" as perhaps my 4th(I hope) boat, (kindof a 22' shearwater with a cuddy)
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htom 03-29-2004 05:23 PM

Erik -- any success?
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Ben Fuller 03-30-2004 07:29 PM

Thought that this had been resolved some time ago. See if you can hunt up Rob Stevens who is the design guy at Brooklin. In fact he may have done some of the detail work. I belive the plans are actually listed in the retrospective done in WB.
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htom Member # 919
posted 05-23-2004 11:14 AM

bump
womp

[ 06-19-2004, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: htom

[Ben Fuller]

The enlarged Shearwater lives on Lake Megunticook when not on salt water in midcoast Maine, not far from you in Portland. John Sliverio is the owner. He hangs with the Maine TSCA, and I am sure he'd make the chance for you to have a go.

Boat behaves much nicer than the original with two or more. The original was was designed as a rowing boat for one. Joel with some reluctance added a rig.

As a Mainer you will appreciate that Joel and Eric Dow (who built the boat ) added a thin sheet of G-10 to the bottom. Rocks loose.

[rbgarr]

G-10 in sheets, huh? Sounds like it has possibilities for the 30 yr old 'Lumberyard type' skiff we use on rocky island shores.

[Canoeyawl]

Here is a photo of a stretched Sheerwater rigged a Yawl... in the Sacramento River Delta
http://www.stella67.com/gunk/gunk06/img14.jpg

[Clinton B Chase]

Tx for the info...was just over at Steven's and we were talking about the Shearwaters...I gotta go see the 18 footer...the real question is a) what do I want to do with the boat (i.e., primarily row by myself in which case I am thinking of the original and a downwind sailing rig w/o a c/b or d/b OR do I want a Maine Island Trail friendly boat that appears to be a fine rower and sailor at the same time which is rare!) and b) will i like the look of the 18 as much as the original...the lines on the drawing don't captivate me as much as the original does. The original for me is one of the prettiest boats I have ever seen...I imagine adding an extra 1' to it for the extra capacity for two rowing and so when I stretch my legs out the won't go all the way to the end of the boat (I'm 6'6"...doesn't it make sense to have a longer boat!?). The yawl rig looks cool! TX for info Ben.

Cheers,
Clint

PS. Ben I tried to hook up with you at Mystic to ask about your Harrier... I kept missing you at the tent. Cheers.

[Ben Fuller]

Harrier is always here ready for a spin. She is big for singlehanded rowing, but not as big as some of the really big boats like the Caledonias that really want outboards.

Maybe what you should do is hunt up John Silverio for a look at his boat and we might be able to figure out how to get the Harrier with it. Both should be together at an informal TSCA rally over at WoodenBoat weekend of the 14th this month.

[Clinton B Chase]

TX Ben...I wish I could do the WB weekend but I am running the Compass Project community boatbuilding weekend here in Portland. BUT, I'd like to see the Harrier and John's boat together or separate. I'll contact you when I am up that way in late July/E. Aug. I am trying to see a Shearwater 16 here in Yarmouth, Maine.

Clint

[gert]

http://capefalconkayak.com/jwboat.html

http://capefalconkayak.com/campcruisingcortez.html

[htom]

Oh, my. A cartoppable larger Shearwater.

[Clinton B Chase]

Just received the Shearwater 18 plans from BBY. She looks really great. Much more boat than the 16 but still fine underwater and a bit more beam to help sailing. This looks like the best rowing/sailing boat I have ever seen. I think she'd be much prettier with 4 strakes per side than 3 strakes. I believe that I can just re-line off the hull when I loft her up...does this sound right? Other things...a G-10 plank fastened over 1/2" plywood bottom glassed with 10 oz seems excessive unless it is being beached very often. I may go straight 1/2" ply with glass or could bump up to 5/8" ply with glass. The garboard is 1/4" sapele as is the rest of the topsides. Joel asks the builder to glass the outside of the gbd but also the inside prior to planking. I wondered why not use 3/8" ply and not glass...just glass the bottom and go over the edge onto the garboard....maybe the whole garboard...but glassing the inside seems excessive. He also asks the builder to tape the inside of each lap with 10 oz cloth. I have never seen this. Oughtred's boats of similar size and style, like the John Dory, do not ask for this (that dory is 5/8" bottom, 3/8" gbd, topsides 1/4" which makes a lot of sense). I do not doubt Joel White's plans, I just wonder if the original owner was going to be especially tough on the boat and JW designed for this in mind. What do folks think? I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on my construction ideas.

[JimConlin]

Where can one buy G-10 sheet? I've been buying dainty bits from McMaster.

[htom]

The 10 oz cloth between laps is almost certainly to prevent epoxy squeezeout. If it's also to be draped over the edges of the plywood, I'll guess that it's to help seal the edges.

Glassing the garboards (I presume that the bottom is also glassed) does two things: abrasion resistance (mostly on the outside) and strength (it turns the garboard into something like a plywood-filled fiberglass beam, helping keep the shape as the waves go by, maybe, and other stresses on 1/4" garboards.)

Kevlar on the inside might help a bit more than glass as far as puncture resistance, but I'd almost want a layer of glass above that to keep it from abrading, and that would get very heavy.

[htom]

Wait a moment ...

Is the glass between the planks, in which case it would help prevent squeezeout, or is it on the planks, over the joint, in which case it's a stiffener. Note that all of the planks are 1/4" which is very light construction; it may be that it's "floppy" (for lack of a better word) in the water without the additional stiffening.

[Ben Fuller]

Both the enlarged Shearwater and the Harrier were at the Small Reach Regatta. I gather that the Harrier was a good bit faster under sail.

Just spent some time running a messing about course over at WB. Reaquinted myself with original Shearwater. She is small, sized like my ducker and I think not as quick at least when both were sailing and rowing together.

The original enlarged Shearwater was designed for a couple and two kids. rowing mostly with sail as auxiliary. They did not want to worry about pulling the boat up on rocks. I would keep the G-10.

The enlarged Shearwater will likely be at the Short Ships Race on 10 September, and my Harrier as well if I can find a crew. I won't make it.

[Clinton B Chase]

Good I plan on going to he Short Ships Race. I imagine the big shearwater is faster under oar power than the harrier? Hope to see both Sunday.

Cheers,
Clint

[pcford]

Sheerwaters, not familiar with the type....but they look a lot like Oselvers.

Anyone from the old country here?

[StevenBauer]

Pat, Iain Oughtred's Elf and Elffyn, Joel White's Shearwaters and Atkin's Valgerda are all based on the Oselver. Different interpretations of the same boat. Look for more Elf news soon. :)

Steven

[pcford]

Pat, Iain Oughtred's Elf and Elffyn, Joel White's Shearwaters and Atkin's Valgerda are all based on the Oselver. Different interpretations of the same boat. Look for more Elf news soon. :)

Steven

Thank you, sir. I have a 22 foot Oselver....in storage many years. Needs repair. Wonderful boat. Had some great times on her.

[Ben Fuller]

Sheerwaters, not familiar with the type....but they look a lot like Oselvers.

Anyone from the old country here?

The nickname for the first Shearwater was the Joelselver.

[Ben Fuller]

Good I plan on going to he Short Ships Race. I imagine the big shearwater is faster under oar power than the harrier? Hope to see both Sunday.

Cheers,
Clint

I won't be at the ShortShips race as I am in Mystic that weekend. If I can find a crew to launch and row the Harrier and recover it, I will drop it off at Atlantic Challenge on Friday. I have asked John Silverio about this.

[StevenBauer]

Hey Clint, if Mary and I watch the little guy you and Ellie could win this race outright in a boat like Harrier. :) We're game.

Steven