Is there a good looking 17ft boat to build?

[donald branscom]

I have found many plans for small pocket cruisers that are easy to build ,cheap etc.,. but I was looking for one that has classic good looks like a Rhodes. It takes a lot of work to build a boat and I want something that has killer looks.
Does anybody know of a design?

Thanks, Don

[Thorne]

Nope -- all ugly.









...seriously, you'll have to define "classic good looks" a bit more to get much of an accurate response. One's man's beauty is another man's beast.

[donald branscom]

Mr Thorne,

Now c'mon think. I know that you know what a good looking boat looks like.
What about Apache over in Sausalito. Who designed that?
That looks good sailing, on the hard or sitting at the dock. Don,t you think?
Phil bolger is out. No offense but.....
I am talking classic like the J boats.

Sincerely, Don

[JimD]

Is there a smaller Rhodes design you could post a photo of to give us some ideas? Also, do you want to build traditionally or epoxy glue?

Just to start the ball rolling do you like something like this 17' 3" gaff sloop by Atkin?

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Perigee.html

[paladin]

why do you want the boat...how will it be used...? maybe 20 feet is a better answer...

[Dave Fleming]

What ever you choose it ain't gonna do well on the Russian River.:D


So better you tell us just where you plan on sailing.
The Bay, Clear Lake, Tahoe??????????

Then perhaps the answers instead of wise cracks like mine, Mea Culpia, will start flowing.

;) ;)

[garland reese]

I think that "classic good looks" is pretty subjective. Having said that though, I do like the Meadowbird design that Karl Stambaugh drew up for Gary Clements http://www.cmdboats.com/mbirdk.htm?cart_id=4b07e6718853ce85a8fb40e4302c6c1 1 . It is only 16 feet, but is nicely done, very shapely, and has a lot of panache for it's small size. Also, I had a study drawing that Paul Gartside sent me a few years ago, for a very very nice 16 foot camp cruiser. It is not in his design portfolio on his web site, but it is sure a nice design. I think that full plans were not done.....it was a concept of sorts, for a client. The little boat had all the classic looks that are typical of Mr. Gartside's designs.

If it is a daysailer that you're looking for, have a look at Uffa Fox's Flying Fifteen. That's a nice boat too.

[epoxyboy]

John Welsfords Pathfinder ?
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pathfinder/index.htm

[pippo]

He wants a small pocket cruiser. What about this:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Wee+Seal

[rbgarr]

"Philip Rhodes and his Yacht Designs" by Richard Henderson (I think I'm getting that right) shows pictures and photos of a large range of types. The smaller boats tended to be fuller and with more perpendicular stems and transoms (or were double ended) while the larger boats were leaner with longer overhangs bow and stern.

I can't think of a boat in the size you mention that looks like the latter type (sort of closer to the J Boat class 'look') and has enough room to be a reasonable cruiser.

Those ends and the resulting shape of the hull reduce interior volume considerably. You may (perhaps) have to broaden your notions of what can look good or reconsider how you'll use the boat. I'm very much with you on wanting to have a pretty boat, though. I prefer the long ended type myself, but find even the Luders 16 (+/- 26' feet in overall length) almost a caricature of the type. There are used ones of those available from time to time if a rebuild is something you'd consider, have a place to work on, keep in the water, etc.

In any case I recommend the book if you like Rhodes designs. You may find one that suits there.

[RodB]

I don't know about a long sleek Rhodes type 17 footer offering much space... but slightly larger than requested ...and really really great traditional looks....trailerable... consider the following

Easy to build and quite appealing...Stambaughs 19'6" Sloop Mist:
http://www.woodenboatstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=400-107

"KILLER LOOKS" certainly describes the following... and they would draw crowds to gawk....!

Easy to build and perfect visual balance... Atkin's "Amos Brown":
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pa4116a0614ff03c6be23857f5b3122bc/ee27cd17.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p9000e95a7d5fbe66bef6dcfe2303c8a1/ee27ccdb.jpg

Much more difficult to build... but breathtaking in visual grace...could be strip built.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pcd3bf37ad00229b09634e48516730f19/ee27cc9b.jpg

Weston Farmer's "Jenny Wren"
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/wf/jennywren/index.htm
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pc25f07c7a4e873fcd321ed49a39bba7a/ee27b0fc.jpg

RB

[Paul Pless]

William Garden's Eel, comes to mind, and a search for her should lead to any number of several other 'canoe yawl' types.

Also there are many many good small catboat designs out there in that loa range.

[Paul Pless]

Also, you might want to look at Howard Chappelle's books, especially, American Small Sailing Craft. His books contain literally hundreds of traditional boat designs that have been successfully modified by many people into small cruising boats.

[Tom Robb]

Go to the library. Get a stack of books about boats. Note the ones you like and why. Then might be a good time to ask if anyone has personal experience with any of them.
The obvious and not very helpful answer to "Is there a good looking boat to build?" is "Yes."

[Paul Pless]

The obvious and not very helpful answer to "Is there a good looking boat to build?" is "Yes."

LOL:)

[PVanderwaart]

Some info here: http://astro.temple.edu/~bstavis/pr/rhodes.htm

Examples of Rhodes boats in the size range are the Rhodes 18, Rhodes 19, O'Day Mariner, O'Day Tempest. None are especially stunning, and none are like, say, a Pearson Vanguard. The smallest boat that starts to get the look is the Meridian (http://astro.temple.edu/~bstavis/pr/meridian.htm)

Other designers:
http://www.benford.us/index.html?pcty/
http://www.gartsideboats.com/index.php
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/
http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/FRAMEcruising.htm
http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/

Finally, one of the cleverest is the Delft 25: http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/DelftPlan.htm

[donald branscom]

I really appreciate all of your posts. What a great resource.
I knew that you could point me in the right direction.
I don't plan to use the boat in the Russian River. I was thinking San Francisco Bay. Russian river is VERY shallow.
I hope I wasn't too hard on Mr. THORNE because I always like his comments.
The Norweigen design (Wee Seal) was great but the cost for the plans was 4 times all the other designs.
I think the Maid of Endor looks the best so far. Iwanted to avoid the
5000 pound boats. !800 lbs. is about all my van can pull safely.

Sincerely, Don

[JimM]

Don
Don't start out fooling yourself. The price of plans is a very small cost compared to the money needed to build the boat.

[RodB]

Sounds like Stambaughs Sloop "Mist" is still in the running in displacement and aesthetics.

RB

[garland reese]

If you like the Wee Seal, you should have a look at William Garden's Eel. It is a bit less burdensome than Eel. Plans are not as expensive. I will say that the plans from Mr. Oughtred are topnotch, from what I hear, and his designs are at the top of my favorites list. You seem to be going for hulls of a more tradtional flavor....
Garden's Eel is available here at the WB store.

For something more modern, have a look at the TS 5.4 from Mark Waller. It appears to be a good performer, and is roomy for it's size.


http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/ts5-4.htm

[StevenBauer]

If you like Wee Seal you might like the slightly bigger Eun Mara:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/eunmara1.jpg

And the plans are the same price as the Wee Seal. :)
I've found with plan prices you usually get what you pay for.

Steven

[JimD]

I really appreciate all of your posts. What a great resource.
I knew that you could point me in the right direction.
I don't plan to use the boat in the Russian River. I was thinking San Francisco Bay. Russian river is VERY shallow.
I hope I wasn't too hard on Mr. THORNE because I always like his comments.
The Norweigen design (Wee Seal) was great but the cost for the plans was 4 times all the other designs.
I think the Maid of Endor looks the best so far. Iwanted to avoid the
5000 pound boats. !800 lbs. is about all my van can pull safely.

Sincerely, Don

Wakey, wakey, Don. Maid of Endor ain't no 1800# trailer sailer. Its a 5,000# carvel planked little ship. You should be thinking Wee Seal. It's the right size and is epoxy glued for trailering. There are hugely significant differences in these two boats beyond two feet in length. Time to get real about size and constrution method if you want a small trailer boat.

[Dave Fleming]

May I suggest you seek Bay advise from Canoeyawl, a frequent poster to this Forum.

He has a nice Albert Strange vessel and I know he is very conservative about going out on the Bay.

[RodB]

You do need to downsize your tastes if all you can pull is 1800 lbs... Canoe yawl's "Wenda" displaces around about 4000 lbs...so you will have to go smaller by a lot. ...or get a larger vehicle.

BTW, its pretty obvious that Maid of Endor would have to be built strip/cold molded to be trailered...she would be a sweeeet boat if one had a 3/4 ton pickup to pull her around.

I thought I'd throw these in because you like her...and because MOE is so damn nice...does anyone else have any good photos of Maid of Endor or Amos Brown?
Maid of Endor really is a little ship.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p8f7c942d42292834f0d00498d0172f38/ee2500b3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pc5ad29548d7ddb5ce95f5ce7b4010d22/ee25004e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pbdbb83c3be63b423189d1b53f6c22e3c/ee250017.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p98dcf537b049c378da815fdabb3a22ab/ee24e07f.jpg

RB

[donald branscom]

Rob is that photo MOE?

Don

[Dave Fleming]

RodB, I wasn't suggesting Wenda as a candidate rather that the fellow talk to Canoeyawl about conditions on SF BAY..

I recall he and I chatting about it and, his attitude was very conservative about sailing the Bay.

A point with which I agree.

[Wild Wassa]

I've watched these little Hartley 18's race and they do go well.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/aeroservice/Hartley_Hotline_March_2006.pdf


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid195/p6744140b9e1096e2f04172eb256e5a45/f1307f4e.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid195/p9e2f5cee0bf3d0bdd70c73ada5bd3515/f1307f48.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p950aa315950e21510e257d2169656b44/f0847a2f.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/pd00ef5ac3efabd48d601f19032b87c17/f0848278.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid200/p9a841f9e4c916037dddf16b7ad9cabb6/f0848292.jpg

Hartley 18s are well liked around here. The moment a Hartley 16 or 18 comes onto market, she's gone. They don't look overly complex to build and there is plenty of cockpit space. One thing Hartleys don't have is a silly traveller in the middle of the cockpit. I see a few Hartleys without spinnakers, but when they have them ... the boats hoot.

You can do a lot worse than own a Hartley 18 ... you could own a heavy non maneuvering 18ft plod boat. Hartleys are sprightly, they turn on a dime.

Warren.

[Tar Devil]

The man said "good looking 17 ft"

I would suggest Ed Monk's Vagabond. 17 salty feet of good looking hull, adaptable to plywood.

Sorry... can't find photos. Inside thisa book...

http://www.woodzone.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/build-wooden-boats-lg.jpg

Later,

Phil

[Rancocas]

And, don't forget that if you plan to keep it on a trailer, then each time you launch you will have to spend some time, maybe a lot of time, setting up the mast and rigging. Simple is faster.

[RodB]

Yes the photos are Maid of Endor....direct from the Atkin website.

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/
Interestingly no comments on "Amos Brown" which is quite striking in profile and would be immensely easier to build than Maid of Endor...with the hard chines in the water she would look similar I'm sure.

Dave... yes Canoe yawl said "Sally" was quite stiff and you certainly noticed rougher conditions...perhaps he will comment here. I think he mostly uses her in Thames esturary type locations like the original Strange designs were intended. One thing I know about S. F. Bay is that its a good windsurfing site. Perhaps a heavier displacement design would be alot of fun in an area that has plenty of wind. . . like a little ship that can handle rougher conditions well.

That Hartley 18 is a cool boat...not traditional looking but a nice sailing machine.

I think there is quite a spread here from spry daysailers to heavier pocket cruisers. There are some good suggestions here of both types and if one is considering daysailers with cuddys the choices are too numerous to mention. As usual, the would be boatbuilder needs to go through his own search injecting a big shot of realism into the equation.

I will say again Stambaugh's "Mist" fits the bill pretty close in both displacement and traditional looks with modern costruction...although larger (not much) than 1800 lbs...disp.

http://www.cmdboats.com/mistgallery.htm?cart_id=6b09d7fa8b90e80c432d76b34c 48c6fa
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/pc8cbc35ccce5da6a57ff73b1bb9acbcf/ee238db5.jpg

I also agree that John Welsford's designs should be considered if you like the aesthetics...they certainly could handle the conditions out there.

RB

[Canoeyawl]

“Stiff” is a relative term…the Bay can be an unforgiving place to sail, with strong winds and strong currents; “power” is what’s needed on San Francisco Bay and I don’t think you will get it in a 17-foot boat unless it is a catboat.
I will suggest that your tastes in design will change with your building and sailing experience and perhaps a simple sailing skiff as a starting point for a first build could be considered.

[Venchka]

Here you go...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/pc1c45449b166958bf05394eb93d8b750/fae12ac4.jpg

In sailing trim with 50 pounds of batteries and the road cover on, Elisabeth Grace + trailer weigh 1,300 pounds. I know because I weighed her on a certified scale. Nick Grainger sails Crazybird down in Oz where they get some pretty rough conditions. With a crew of 3 and something like 200 pounds of ballast, Crazybird is very manageable.

The Hartley TS 18 and Steve Redmond's Elver are about the only two boats with decks and bunks that I can recall coming in under the 1,800 all up trailer weight limit. There are several Elvers in North America and you could verify the trailer weight.

Now, if you beef up the van or get a healthier tow vehicle with about 3,000 pounds towing capacity and you really want a boat that looks good...

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/Spartan2-110.jpg

Paul Gartside's Design #110, Surprise

...or for just a few dollars more you could have Surprise. Is she good looking enough?

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/Surprise02.JPG

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/SurpriseInside1web.JPG

Only $45k CDN delivered to San Francisco Bay!:D

http://www.gartsideboats.com/boats.php

Good luck!

[Dave Fleming]

'nuther thing, where are you going to launch it?
Gurneville to Petaluma is what over 40 miles? That is the closest ramp I know of.
Or will you be going further down to Port Sonoma or some place in Marin County or waaaaay over to Valleyjo?

[Tom Robb]

What Canoeyawl said.
First you build a little boat.
Say, somebody ought to write a book about that.

[merlinron]

despite the risk of getting beat up here, i am going to say a few things....
all but a few of the boats listed definately are "trailerable", but just how "trailerable" are they? anything classic, with a fairly deeply built skeg or keel and a decent sail plan, will be a real s.o.b. to set up and launch and retreive at all but the steepest/deepest ramps.they will require an ultra expensive trailer and most are way beyond the weight limit stated. that doesn't make them "trailerable", in the parameters of the original request. most are trailer transportable, but not really designed to be easily towed around on weekends to different lakes.
displacement is generally declared as maximum waterline weight, which would include about half the weight of crew and suplies, etc.(say, 4-600 lbs.) the "trailer" weight will be considerably less.

[donald branscom]

'nuther thing, where are you going to launch it?
Gurneville to Petaluma is what over 40 miles? That is the closest ramp I know of.
Or will you be going further down to Port Sonoma or some place in Marin County or waaaaay over to Valleyjo?

From my house to the ocean is 9 miles.
There is a ramp a mile or two from the intersection of highway 1 and River road (hwy 116) going towards Jenner.

I lived on my 36 ft. steel sloop in Sausalito for many years and sailed singlehanded all the time. The problem was the owners of the marina raised the price of my slip 5 times in 1and1/2 years.
Almost all of my friends left the area with or without their boats.
To afford a slip now your boat has to be a business or you just have to have the money. I can't say more it gets political.

Don

[garland reese]

John Welsford has some really fine small boat designs that look good, are by all reports very capable for their type, and are buildable on a pretty small budget, generally speaking of course. This might be a great place to start. You could build one and if you find that you outgrow it, you won't have a life of investment, in terms of time and money. Then you could get started on the boat of your dreams. On the other hand, you might find the boat suits your needs just fine, and you'll enjoy a good many fine cruises aboard.

A couple come to mind. Pathfinder: One of John's most popular designs, and a very capable small cruiser. I think a small cabin has been done a few times on these boats.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/pathfinder/index.htm

Sweet Pea: This is a nice little boat!

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/sweetpea/index.htm

Whaler: Cabins have been discussed for this one, perhaps a few have been built with cabins. Jim D knows more on that. One of my favorites.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/6m_whaler/index.htm

and on a more burdensome scale, Penguin: This one is teetering on the edge of your desires for trailerability and weight, but it seems a lot more trailerable than most boats of it's size and capabilities. This boat sounds like a very capable boat all around. And I think you could actually trailer it and get it in the water with relative ease. It looks salty enough. I like the gaff options, the yawl being my favorite. There seems much to like about a yawl rig for cruising around.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/penguin/index.htm

[donald branscom]

despite the risk of getting beat up here, i am going to say a few things....
all but a few of the boats listed definately are "trailerable", but just how "trailerable" are they? anything classic, with a fairly deeply built skeg or keel and a decent sail plan, will be a real s.o.b. to set up and launch and retreive at all but the steepest/deepest ramps.they will require an ultra expensive trailer and most are way beyond the weight limit stated. that doesn't make them "trailerable", in the parameters of the original request. most are trailer transportable, but not really designed to be easily towed around on weekends to different lakes.
displacement is generally declared as maximum waterline weight, which would include about half the weight of crew and suplies, etc.(say, 4-600 lbs.) the "trailer" weight will be considerably less.


I think you are correct .
Maybe 1200 lbs. I have a 1 ton Van.
I want to build a boat that looks like Maid of Endor
But maybe flat bottomed. Center board. The gears are whiring.
The ocean out where i live is very rough. Not protected like San Francisco Bay. Of course a flat bottomed boat could be sailed around Bodega bay.
I would not mind driving to Sausalito to go sailing for two days.
To me it would be worth it.
i don't like the idea of renting a Santana 22 for $175.00 for just a few hours.

Don

[donald branscom]

He wants a small pocket cruiser. What about this:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Wee+Seal

WEE SEAL !

I think this is the winner but I am a little worried about the clinker method stuff. Hope its not too hard.

Don

[garland reese]

For something along the lines of your original size of 17 feet, you'd be hardpressed to go much wrong with the Meadowbird. She is flat on her bottom, with very nice rounded bilge and a fine sheerline. This little boat is incredibly shapely, and with the option of a ballasted keel, she'd be a bit stiffer. The centerboard option houses below the cabin floorboards. She is salty as they get in her size. I don't know how she'd fair on your local water, but again for her size she's a best bet, to my mind.

http://www.cmdboats.com/mbirdk.htm?cart_id=0383cfab66305190446a9189e74e50f 8

[garland reese]

When you buy the plans, buy Ian's plywood clinker building manual. It is a great book! Wee Seal is a very fine boat, and only marginally larger than your original thought. The design has undergone a few changes over the years for the better (asethetically). More strakes, a yawl rig option, maybe a few more that I am forgetting. This boat is lovely. Her big sister is a stunner too (Eu Na Mara). Ian's plans are very well done, and his boats are raved about by all who are familiar with them. I think you've chosen well. Good luck to you!
Garland

[JimD]

Have you taken a look at Selway-Fisher? Quite a few tabloids in the size you're after and some of them quite shapely:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/PocketC.htm

[Thorne]

Don -

Didn't mind your comments at all -- someone's gotta really go out of their way with clear intent before I get my knickers in a twist over forum postings.

;0 )

Looks like you've got a lot of good ideas here. I suspect that your van may be able to tow more -- I routinely towed a 2500lb boat with 4cyl Nissan mini-trucks, needed 4x4 to tow up the ramp but nearly anything can move a good trailerable boat on the flat -- even a VW van.

That's where the problem is -- towing back up the ramp -- and you need a decent low gear ratio to avoid smoking your clutch. Otherwise you can probably tow more than you think, but of course it is your boat, your van, and your auto insurance.

Best of luck! I'm off to sunny (read HOT) Lake Natoma for a TSCA row / sail / picnic this am.

[merlinron]

don,
if you have a 1 ton van, you're in pretty good shape to pull up to probably 2-1/2 tons on the trailer. the one ton rating is generally considered what the rear axle will carry by the manufacturer. tonge weight usually being no more than 1/3 total pulled weight. you could tow a fairly good size boat, one way bigger than you'd probably want to deal with as a "trailer sailer".
once again, wee seal is a great choice for classic lines, and i love the gunter rig...easy to set up, salty as can be. but, imho, i caution that it's probably close the limit of what is truely "trailer sailor-able", with it's 21" of draft and round bottom, i would predict the water line to be at least 3 ft.+ off the ground on even a very low slung trailer. you'll need steep ramps and a long tonge. think about boats that are most commonly kept on a trailer today... power boats... it takes a pretty good size bass boat or cuddy cruiser to get almost 2 ft of draft, and that's with a flat bottom and no camber to the keel( the back of the boat floats pretty much as soon as it hits the water). wee seal has niether of those attributes and her narrow stern will go pertty far below the water line before the center of floatation is at the water's surface, so you're going to have to get pretty far in before she comes off. now put a trailer under that and you'll need some real depth to get it off the trailer.
i only caution you because i've gone that route once, being a land locked sailor with a boat of about 20 inches of draft and it became so difficult to find a deep enough ramp at the lakes in my area that the boat stayed at home allot, i decided there's no sence in keeping a boat i can't use as often as i want and took a beating when i sold it.
finding a boat with good lines and still truely trailerable is compromise at best, usually forceing you to settle for not so salty lines and more sailing, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[StevenBauer]

If you are thinking of Iain Oughtred's Wee Seal you should pick up the current issue of Watercraft Magazine. They have an article about sailing the Wee Seal in heavy weather.

It's the May/June '06 issue. www.watercraft.co.uk

[Lance F. Gunderson]

I'm surprised no one has nominated L.F. Herreshoff's design # 39 from Sensible Cruising Designs," the 17' Center board Knockabout. I think it's the prettiest boat I've ever seen. I've owned hull #1, built by Cannell, since 1983. Launched her a few days ago and had my first sail of the season yesterday, now that she's had time to take up. It was a perfect day for that boat, SW5-10, 80 degrees, fair weather clouds, few powerboat wakes. We ghosted over the flats at half tide (she draws 4"), sailed out to West Sister ( I'm in Kittery Point, Maine), back up the Piscataqua River and up Chauncey Creek chasing the zephers. At sunset I hated to come in. Looking forward to a similar day today. Although she's very tippy and tender, I highly recommend this boat if you want a stunningly beautiful 17 footer.

[RodB]

This subject is interesting in that it brings back a common thread...ie., the continual search for as large a boat possible that does not have to be kept in a slip or mooring and can be reasonably launched at a ramp and trailered.

I think Canoeyawl has worked out one of the best solutions to trailering a 4000 lb Albert Strange yawl that can launch just about anywhere... I don't think he has a one ton vehicle...just a used 3/4 ton truck.

A one ton van could handle "Sally".



http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=2249


She sits pretty low on the trailer...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid166/p76c6f229614e844c0f19ffebd186f8be/f45b60d5.jpg

Pretty shallow draft
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid166/pa8773dca8f099038a688ad5dc4feace4/f45b5f07.jpg

Ballast keel split in two parts with slot in center for foil shaped centerboad.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid166/pa701e6facdcb342a7ef1b5e1837ac1f5/f45b006a.jpg

Everytime the subject of trailerable pocket cruisers comes up the difficulties of trailering and launching direct the suggestions towards smaller and smaller designs...and the point is made that ease of use over-rides everything else "bottom line"...as far as how much you end up actually using a boat.

I hate to admit it but this is probably true. I am also faced with the decision of building trailerable or not... and of course the costs of slip storage fees if I build too large...and I, like the author of this thread, have decided to build trailerable. I also am absolutely determined that I must be in love with the design and that I have enough room to suit me. After completing one boat over the past three years I have a more enlightened reference point when considering such a project. I have to love the design in question and it will have to offer enough in capabilities and ammenities to suit and yes with compromise involved.

I think Canoeyawl has solved the dilema of a reasonably trailerable "maxi-trailerable" design with his slightly modified "Wenda"..."Sally" as well as any concept I have seen. "Sally" is about 4000 lbs displacement as he built her to the outside of the lines...and his towing weight is around 5K lbs or so... His hull slides on and off the trailer rollers on the bottom of the lead keel and works like a charm. After corresponding with Canoeyawl I am convinced that one could take a design as large as Herreshoff's "Alerion" (6K lbs disp)...build her strip/cold molded, and with her centerboard etc...trailer and launch her as well.

If the right kind of hull is selected and you commit to a vehicle that can pull her around, the size of boat can be upscaled to more than normally considered. A custom designed trailer enables this to a great degree (see Canoeyawl's website on trailer design). IF you work out the logistics of hull shape, centerboard or not, and a vehicle strong enough to pull her...and how does that stack up against building a craft that must be kept in a slip at the cost of $300/mo or more....or to just go sailing in a daysailer and/or all the choices in between. Only the sailor can decide if ease of use is the main criteria...or just half way reasonable ease of use...or somewhat difficult use...a dilema for us all.

http://www.canoeyawl.com/trailer-sally.htm

One final note, it seems to me there sure are plenty of designs both small and large as listed above that were meant for rougher conditions from their inception. . . and many are not all that large in size....lots of choices, but its the aesthetics that drives us.

RB

[donald branscom]

I found one more but I would have to make that cabin and combing a little differently.

AT: http://www.digitalmarketingusa.com/k15.html

Don

[merlinron]

rodb,
well said, it is an aspect that has detered my building a boat for a few years now..... " if i look just a little longer, maybe i'll find one i really like, that will work".... never heard that before, huh?
canoe yawl's web site is great, and that is a slick set up for a fairly good sized, " trailer boat". it can be done with the right amount of effort and expense. most of us don't have all the resourses necessary to put it all together like that. i am lucky in that i do have the skills ,certified welder, carpenter/milwright with lots of experience, but i lack the financial part to build that big.... and i personally don't think i'd want to deal with a trailer boat that size, but each to his own, it is surely a beutiful boat(sally).
don,
i looked at the kingston also, definately fits the trailer bill, but sure lacks in the "classic" dept. still not a bad modern looking sailer, though.
BTW. .... i pm'd.

[donald branscom]

If you are thinking of Iain Oughtred's Wee Seal you should pick up the current issue of Watercraft Magazine. They have an article about sailing the Wee Seal in heavy weather.

It's the May/June '06 issue. www.watercraft.co.uk

Could you tell me what it says, so I would not have to pay the $38.00 and have them taking $38.00 every month out of my bank account.

I have to drive 50 miles round trip to get to a decent magazine store that might have it.

Thanks!

Sincerely,Don

[Stiletto]

If you are prepared to consider changing the cabin profile of the Kingston 15 it may be time to revisit the Hartley suggestion and do the same thing. I've often wondered what one could look like with a more 'traditional ' cabin shape. They really do sail well.

[Steve Paskey]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Golant Gaffer -- strip planked, and about the same size and weight as the Wee Seal.

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/details.asp?Name=Golant+Gaffer

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatlists/images/golant.jpg

[garland reese]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this design either. But for your initial desires, it runs pretty close, and is good looking to boot! Of course, when you start talking about double enders and canoe yawl rigged double enders, well, I tend to forget about all the rest.....

Roomy, small, trailerable, seaworthy, classy; this one's pretty darned good, I think.

http://www.dixdesign.com/inspir19.htm

[JimD]

The GGs displacement is over 3,000#s but given that previous suggestions have included designs absurdly beyond that which the poster is looking for it makes more sense that most and she is a lovely boat. If I were building one I would commit the unforgivable sacriledge of putting a proper house on her so as to avoid duck walking while below.

[RodB]

Looked up the Herreshoff design #39...sure looks like a sleek daysailer. . . "Sweeet"...

BTW, he did mention he had a one Ton van...that leaves lots of room for suggestions...

RB

[merlinron]

cape cutter 19..... they don't get much better looking than that! a bit bigger than requested, but you sure have the "killer looks" with that one.

[Rick Starr]

I'm surprised no one has nominated L.F. Herreshoff's design # 39 from Sensible Cruising Designs," the 17' Center board Knockabout. I think it's the prettiest boat I've ever seen. I've owned hull #1, built by Cannell, since 1983.

Intrigued, I looked her up. What a beauty! Definitely not for around here, but lovely. Fascinating story, too.

back up the Piscataqua River and up Chauncey Creek chasing the zephers. At sunset I hated to come in. Looking forward to a similar day today. Although she's very tippy and tender, I highly recommend this boat if you want a stunningly beautiful 17 footer.

I wish I had seen that. I've spent some pleasant hours watching boats on the Piscataqua. thanks for that! do you have any pictures to accompany the tale? pretty please?

[JimD]

I found one more but I would have to make that cabin and combing a little differently.

AT: http://www.digitalmarketingusa.com/k15.html

Don

In that case you might want to have a look at Jacques Mertens versions of simple but able little boats:

http://www.bateau.com/products.php?cat=14

[Venchka]

Harumpf...a one ton van with the right hitch and maybe air bags or air shocks in the back and extension mirrors will tow just about any highway legal boat you've got a mind and the skills and the space and the hardware and the budget to build.

For the cost of plans, building jig & trailer (or a lot less), you could get a Catalina 22 or similar 20' (+ or -) glass boat and find out if that size boat is really manageable to launch/rig/un-rig/load up whenever you wanted to use it.

Oxymoron: Kingston 15 & AD-14 or AD-16 in a discussion of boats with "classic good looks".:D Just my own personal geezer opinion.

YMMV

[donald branscom]

I want to thank all the members for your help to try to find all the possibilities to build my 17 foot boat.

It was very diffacult because i am so used to sailing in san Francisco Bay but realistically I only have to drive about a mile to put my boat into the Russian river. i wanted the 5.000 pound boat but it just won't fit my needs.

i am going to build Meadow Bird. a 16 ft. 6 inches sailboat. Chesapeake Marine Design, about 650 lbs.
I ordered the plans today.

Thanks.
i will post pics if i can figure that out after construction is well along.


Sincerely, Don

[Dave Fleming]

When you do get your boat into the RR and if you have time, please let me know as we are up past Jenner on Myers Grade Road several times a year.

[JimD]

Meadow Bird's a nice looking boat. Are you going to rig her as a sloop or yawl?

[paladin]

There are several places around the bay to launch...Alviso Slough is one place..near the old cannery.....and..about 10 miles north is a small club with launching facilities.....

[Tanbark Spanker]

It's hard to beat that plywood gaffer or Maid of Endor for beauty. For weight, you may want to Google Redd' Pond Boatworks and look at their recent construction of a No Man's Land boat. The plans are in the Chapelle book American Small Sailing Craft.

[Meerkat]

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Tosherp3.jpg

I see the decision is made, but Selway-Fisher's 18' "Tosher" is quite nice. "Watercraft" had an article about the costs of building the boat pictured above.