Hey can anyone recomend some cabinetmaker's Autocad program.

[katiedobe]

I find myself down here needing to make cabinets for many people and am tired of drawing everything by hand. Shop drawings take time. I wonder if anyone can reccomend any cabinet desinging software that is in the sub $300 range that is of decent quality and easy to use?
I want it to be able to produce 3-d renditions and generate cut lists and designate panels. You know "kitchen, upper, sides 30" by 24".
Help me out here. Thanks

[Kim Whitmyre]

You're better off drawing it by hand, IMHO. Even the "simpler" drafting software, ie, AutoSketch, have serious learning curves. The manuals are not written by users, but by "technical writers." For AutoSketch, there was at least a user manual written by a user in Oz that could be had for a small sum.

The use of simple drafting tools, such as a dedicated table with good provisions for squares, architectural templates, and such, is much more user friendly than any "software" for the purpose you describe.

[Bruce Hooke]

There will be a learning curve, but if you are reasonably proficient at learning computer software I predict that you will give up on the drafting table in very short order. I know I did. One of the big advantages to computer drafting is the ease with which alterations can be made. Say you need to move a cabinet over one inch. On the computer you just select all the lines and slide them over. On a drafting table you'd be erasing and redrawing.

I use AutoCAD Light, largely because it is what I happened to have available when I started down the computer drafting road. Fine Woodworking did a review a year or two ago of computer drafting software and I would highly recommend digging that issue up. Given how fast software changes it may be a little out of date but it will still give you lots of good information.

AutoCAD Light works very well for me, BUT, I am pretty certain there are cheaper solutions that will serve you just as well and be easier to learn.

For 3d renderings I would approach them basically the way you approach them now -- drawing them in 2d, just on the computer. There are genuine 3d drafting programs out there but they tend to be VERY expensive, hard to learn and slow to use even for someone skilled in their use. I'd guess that you had not intention of getting into real 3d software but I just thought I'd mention it.

One point to consider is that AutoCAD Light (at least in my now ancient copy) does not offer much control over line weight or shading. This could be a problem if you like to do "pretty" renderings. I expect newer versions do better in this department, but it may still be something to consider when evaluating software.

Another point to consider is how you will print the drawings. A printer that will print up to 13" x 19" is not that expensive. Anything bigger and you are talking serious money. If you go looking for a 13" x 19" printer I'd avoid the printers aimed at digital photography -- in my experience (with an Epson 2200) they are not as good at text and the ink is also more expensive.

[John Meachen]

Have you looked at http://www.internetwoodworking.com/w5/cad.html ,maybe the woodweb CAD forum would have some information or www.freebyte.com ?
If you are looking for Autocad type software, Progecad or Intellicad are about as close as you are likely to find.Sadly they are not 3D.

[katiedobe]

Thanks. I appreciate the info. All the programs I found were aimed at high production shops. I do maybe four jobs a year down here and at most it is four or five bases and a couple of uppers. I only asked because I bought the 3D home design program at costco and have learned to use it. Unfortunatly it does not have a good cabinet program on it.

I spent about 6 hours straight learning that program and now I don't use the paper to make drawings for floorplans. Much easier on the computer.
I was hoping there was a "cheap" solution out there.
Thanks.

[JimM]

Jimmy
You may want to check out this web site. Lots of choices. though there is a learning curve to using CAD software in the end it will save you lots of time. http://dmoz.org/Arts/Crafts/Woodcraft/Woodworking/Software/

[Bruce Hooke]

There are cheap solutions out there. It is a question of finding the right one.

A key part of this comes down to a trade off between flexibility and simplicity. Programs that are specifically designed to, say, draw floor plans, do fine, in my experience, as long as you are drawing standard floor plans. However, at some point someone will come along with something a bit unusual and a system based on drawing standard building components no longer works, because, say, it can't handle a curved wall. The way around this is to use a program that lets you draw lines and circles and the like and leaves you to "define" what these lines mean. Of course this takes more time because to draw a wall you need to draw two lines and make them join up neatly with the next wall at the corner of the house, whereas a program designed to draw walls will take care of those details for you. I'd bet that the same trade-off might apply to software to draw cabinets. I prefer to have full control because I tend to do unusual things, but for straight forward cabinets a more "stock component" approach might well make sense.

[Bruce Hooke]

It was issue 172 of Fine Woodworking that contained a review of low cost CAD programs. I stand corrected on one issue -- it appears there are low-cost, relatively easy to use 3D drawing programs out there.

The authors picks were:

DesignCAD 3D Max14 for 2d and 3d drawing
OR
DeltaCAD for 2d only drawing.

This issue dates from 2004 so I expect some things like version numbers have changed. None-the-less, there is lots of good information in the article...

[katiedobe]

That is where I am at. I think simple stock components is great down here in the land of the architectural style called,
"Mexican Brutalism!!". I am just tired of drawing and drawing and drawing by hand very similar things. I want to be able to choose base cabinets with basic parameters and maybe three or six door styles. Anything out of the 90 percentile I will custom draw. I mean I bought that $50 3d home program and it is "good enough". I have a friend who does 3d home renditions for Arch. in Seattle and his program is "fantastic". Lots of options that I don't need. His program cost two grand. In the end mine wows the folks ok. His blows their pants off. I was kinda hoping the folks who put out 3d home and 3d deck put out 3d cabinets too.

Another question I read that FWW article but I cannot find the issue. Does anyone remember what issue number it is. I have not subscribed to the new online version and I think the index is restricted.

[Nicholas Carey]

You might look at Gizmolab's Design Intuition (http://www.gizmolab.com/index.html).

I've heard good things about it (but I've never used it myself). The price is fairly reasonable, though (~ $150 per seat, or $450 for lifetime upgrades). They've got a free trial version: it's restricted such that you can neither print nor save your work, so it literally is a sandbox.

Here's a review of Design Intution that was published by MacWorld (it runs on both OS X and Windows):

http://www.macworld.com/2004/09/reviews/designintuition/index.php

You might also consider Sketchup! (http://sketchup.google.com/) (now owned by Google). It's either free, or $500 (on the average, it costs just $250 :D)

Sketchup!, strictly speaking, isn't CAD software. It's 3D modelling software, but it approaches CAD. I think it's just its own beast.

The essential difference is that the free version can't print at anything better than screen resolution, and can't export to *.DWG (autocad format), etc. The export deal is useful as you can model your widget in Sketchup!, then export the model to Illustrator, Freehand, etc. for final tweaking. Sketchup! also has some plug-ins and options that make it look more like it's done on a drawing board. -- line extensions, emphasis, etc.

Sketchup!, by the standards of the breed, is easy to use. However, it's still something of a learning curve (I'm still trying to figure it out).

[Bruce Hooke]

Katiedobe,

We cross-posted. See my post just before your last post for the issue number.

[stef]

I have used Turbocad, Autocad, Microstation and Algor as 3d drafting tools.

Autocad and Microstation are very pricey and aimed at the industrial design/mega-project crowds and are priced appropriately. Very feature rich with a steep learning curve. Sort of like using corel draw as a photo viewer.

Algor is a FEA program with a basic drafting engine but a very complete finite element suite but again pricey. Not so feature rich but learnable.

Tubrocad is the licenced drafting program I have on my home computer. The price ($149 US) is quite resonable and the features are very good. http://www.turbocad.com/products.asp. The documentation was good enough for me to get started without getting the additional tutorials.

It has been said before all of these programs have a learning curve which you have to be prepared for. There is no free lunch.

Stefan

[Dave R]

You could try SketchUp. Google offers a free version and while it isn't CAD, it works very nicely for cabinet work among other things. Short learning curve, too.

Here are some example of stuff I've drawn with it. None of these drawings show dimensioning but it can be easily done.

Sofa Table
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/table12.jpg

Detail of Greene and Greene chair leg from the Blacker house
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/blacker.jpg

Not cabinet work but the steering mechanism I built for my Weekender
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/steeringModified.jpg

Moser inspired table
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/moser.jpg

A bench
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/bench.jpg

Stickley sideboard, wall sconces and picture frame drawin in SketchUp, render in Kerkythea
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/sconces.jpg

[Bruce Hooke]

Katiedobe,

I get what you are looking for and so far it seems like nobody here has come up with it. As I understand it, you want a program with built in cabinet modules that you can pretty much drop into place as you need them rather than having to draw all the cabinet doors and drawer fronts line by line.

One alternative, if nobody comes up with anything, would be to get one of the "straight" CAD programs that have been discussed and then do up your own templates or libraries that you can copy and paste from as necessary.

[Dave R]

You can create a library of cabinet components that can be dropped in to SketchUp. Actually there are quite a few of those things available for free either in the included component library or in Google's 3D warehouse. You can also get sinks and appliances.

For the custom sized cabinets it is a very simple matter to edit an existing one to make it custom.

If you don't need construction detail the cabinets can be very simple boxes and can be drawn in seconds.

Many of the cabinet manufacturers off free CAD drawings of their cabinets. You can download them and import them into your favorite program.

Here's one: http://www.kraftmaid.com/information/index.cfm?navigationid=64000

[mmd]

One of the features you should try to look for in any of the fine programs that have been suggested is the ability to import and export objects via Digital Exchange Format (.dxf) files.

At some point someone will want to paste your cabinet drawings into their multibucks.CAD program, or you will want to paste some cabinet hardware manufacturer's part illustration into your drawing, and the ability to exchange information is priceless.

Of the programs mentioned above that I have used, I vote for TurboCAD.

[Dave R]

SU 5 will also import and export DXF or DWG and has a shorter learing curve than any of the CAD applications I've tried.

[mmd]

I looked at SketchUp's website and it does look like a rather cool tool for conceptualizing, and I see that it does allow dimensioning, but are the actual objects being drawn, drawn to scale? For example, if I were to draw a cabinet and dimensioned it as 24" high, is it really? If I then import a .dxf of a supplier's accurately-scaled 24" edge-rail, would it fit my drawing?

Not to belabour the point, but there is a world of difference between a dimensioned sketch and a scale drawing.

[Dave R]

Yes, the model has the proper dimensions when exported.

FWIW, I did this this morning. I used a single DWG import from the Kraftmaid site for the 12" wide cabinet. I could have downloaded the other widths they offer for this cabinet style but instead I quickly modified copies of the 12" unit. It took me longer to find a file to download than to make a five cabinets.

I could have drawn them from scratch nearly as fast. Pardon the low resolution. It's just a screen grab.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/basecabs.jpg

[TMny]

I would only suggest that the cost/price of the SW package is nearly irrelevant. That is it is quite possible to spend much time learning how to use the program. As an example, the AutoSketch program is supported by an $80 book, and maybe a $700 and $1000 package of expeditious techniques. A copy of a 15 year-old book to assist in use of an obsolete version fetches $400 online.
I declined any of these aids, and have wasted weeks of effort on the 'learning curve' referenced in above posts. The previous posts are nearly all very useful; good luck in your choices.

[tossedman]

I concur with Dave R. Check out Sketchup. Easy to use. Free (if you download Google's version.) Check it out at http://www.sketchup.com/

Todd