R/O sander bit the dust

[cs]

After an hour and half of sanding last night my R/O sander started getting sluggish and than just quit. Let it cool off for a bit, but it never would start back up.

I have the Black & Decker Sandstorm 3 in 1 sander. It was a Christmas present from my wife and daughter a few years ago. Looks like I may have to replace it unless you guys might know what is wrong with it.

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/c9/31/hmgdShop_ToolsAllBlack_Decker_Sandstorm_3_in_1_San der_RO600K1-resized200.gif

Chad

[Donn]

The little-bitty motor probably gave up the ghost, and if you've had it for a few years, the 2-year warranty has expired.

Replace it with something that has more beef (amps).

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

If it has seen quite a lot of use then it could be the carbon brushes have worn out.

If you can find them - it's an easy fix.

[Pete Dorr]

Chad

If the motor won't run then it makes for a heavy sanding block :)

Recently the pad on my Makita random orbit sander came of bit-by-bit until it came of completly.

Just after that I got the latest Fine Woodworking which had a tool review of random orbit sanders. I bought the Bosch 1295DVS (http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tools-detail.htm?H=175979&G=54925&I=55099) that they gave the best overall. It seems better than my Makita for the short time I 've used it so far.

I also got a Bosch Corner Detail Sander (http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tools-detail.htm?H=175979&G=54924&I=55095) kit a few months ago which is very nice for times when the random orbit sander does not fit/work - like corners.

Pete

[cs]

I've probably abused the sander. Last year the hoop and loop pad wore out and I've had to use spray adhesive to hold sanding pads on, so maybe that means it is time.

This will deplete my boat money that I've got on hand, but hey I can't finish my latest project until I can sand some more.

How is the Bosh on the hands? After about 45 minutes, with gloves, my hands were tingling.

Chad

[Pete Dorr]

Chad

It seems fine for the short sanding times I have done so far.

I believe that it got good marks in the comfort category. I'll try to remember to look it up tonight when I get home.

I got mine at the local lumberyard - I'm sure I could have saved $10-$20 by getting it online.

Pete

[merlinron]

cs, unfortunately the line of tools that black and decker markets in the big box stores aren't really up to the tasks of continuous operation like that needed for big jobs. i have, over the years ,finally convinced my family/ relations to "please", not buy me tools for presesnts, for that very reason. i know they mean well, but most people don't realize the difference, something you can thank the big box stores and thier advertisers for. when they ask me waht i could use, they are sometimes insulted when they learn the price of my reply, so it is better that they don't ask.
i would say your sander has, "bit the dust" . if it is a brushed motor, most likely the commontator got too hot shorted out. the only fix would be to replace the armeture, at a cost probably equal to replacing the tool.
one other possibility is that the switch itself may have shorted out. most of the tools of this quality don't have components that will handle the continuous current of hard use and will get very hot, hot enough to melt. i have seen the plastic bodies of switches melted and deformed enough from this type of use that they no longer make contact when turned on. some also have a sacrificial thermal protector built into them to protect the motor.... again, "repairable", and not so expensive if this is the case, but it will just happen again the next time it is called on to work hard for that long.

[Donn]

Online prices for the Bosch mentioned above range from $55 for a refurb, to $79 new.

[cs]

I'm going to go buy the big box tonight and see what they have and for what price. If I want to finish the "Ashley" canoe, I need to get a sander ASAP. I've got a smaller detail sander and an older pad sander that just barely works and I've also got a belt sander, but for this work the R/O is what I need.

BTW "this work" is fairing glass bubble thickned epoxy.

Chad

[Bob Adams]

Porter Cable. Last I checked they still seem to be of decent quality. B&D quality is steadily heading down hill as corprate profits go up. Unfortunately they are also destroying former quality brands the purchased.

[JimConlin]

For boatbuilding, sanders are used for rougher jobs and longer periods than in most other woodworking, so it's a big plus if they have a decent amount of power, have modest vibration and are well made and serviceable. I very much like my Festool RO150 . The Porter-Cable 7336 is nearly as good for half the money (about $150).

I haven't seen either of these, or any right-angle RO sander in a big box store, but the PC is widely distributed on the web. Get the dust-collecting version.

[cs]

I will look and see what they offer. I wish I could go with something like a Fein, but I need to find that happy medium between price and quality.

Chad

[merlinron]

cs, i know what you mean about that "happy medium"... it's a hard spot to find. i have a dewalt random orbital that is at least 6 yrs old now and is still going strong after many continuous hours sanding anything from cabinet doors and cases to bondo on steel doors at work and many-many feet of solid surface counter top joints, with grits from 60 to 200. i really think they fall into that price/duty niche pretty good. it is now ready to have the fiber friction disc replaced so that it sands at the right orbital speed, but the motor and switch is still going strong despite getting hot enought want to wear a glove many times. the kit sells for about 15 bucks wherever the tool is sold. even without the kit, it just orbits a little faster than what is good for an absolutly "no- sanding swirl" finish. since i got the sander it has become the first thing i grab, many times doing the work that would be done by a belt sander when a joint doesn't come out lined up as good as it should have. i would check them out.

[Kim Whitmyre]

My Porter Cable QuickSand 5" orbital quit on me a while ago. When I hit the start switch, all I got was a hum. . .I took it apart and discovered that the lower bearing was basically frozen to the shaft by black goo. I soaked it with brake cleaner, jetted it out, and repacked it with lithium wheel bearing grease: works as before!:)

[capt jake]

My Porter Cable QuickSand 5" orbital quit on me a while ago. When I hit the start switch, all I got was a hum. . .I took it apart and discovered that the lower bearing was basically frozen to the shaft by black goo. I soaked it with brake cleaner, jetted it out, and repacked it with lithium wheel bearing grease: works as before!:)

I also have the PC Quicksand. I have abused the heck out of one of them, just bought another as I thought the other was on it's way out. Tore it apart, cleaned it, put the new rubber oscillating band on it and it works fine again. Great tool!

[pipefitter]

I like the 5" PC as well for the $. I did have it suck up a paper rag and it ate the rubber ring inside the base and if you dont start it on something it will start off like a disc sander.

[capt jake]

Yup, had that happen to. ;) Those rubber bands are about a buck, I have several spares now. :)

[Figment]

How is the Bosh on the hands?

Delightful. I think it's the pad that makes the difference. The tool is much more stable on the working surface, so you don't grip it so tightly. Perhaps that's why it doesn't do the hand-buzz thing so much.
My porter-cable has been relegated to rough-grinding duty.

[warthog5]

Porter Cable. Last I checked they still seem to be of decent quality.

I've killed the bearing's in 2 of the 333 single speed unit's.

I guess I need to go take them apart and fix them. I have plenty of paper for them, but I just go pick up the PC air DA.

I was in the woodworking tool store the other week and picked up a Festool. Man that thing was heavy. It would kill you overhead sanding. Seemed very bulky to me too.

[Ron Williamson]

My old 1993 P-C 7336 was great,but the newer ones,built in China with Chinese bearings,bit the dust in a couple of weeks.With new bearings,under warranty, they've been okay.
R

[troutman]

Home Depot carries the velcro pads for some. I got one for my PC. So that may be a consideration for choosing a replacement. The sanding motion must oversize the screw holes and the pad won't stay on. But after sanding epoxy and clogging the thing up I found that its good to blow it out regularly with your little nailgun compressor. When it first happened I thought it was done for sure but the motor was trying to work as opposed to yours which sounds like the motor is not working at all. I like the PC and continue to blow it out.

[Stiletto]

Chad, If the motor didnt smell like it was burnt out, it may be seized bearings. I have a random orbital of dubious parentage that exhibited the same symptoms.
As long as you stop before you cook the motor you wont kill it.
I like fiddling with things, so I stripped it down and cleaned the bearings of accumulated sanding dust. It worked, so I later replaced the cheapo bearings with some sealed bearings of reasonable quality purchased from an engineering supply shop for a few dollars. That was five years ago, and it is still going strong .

But you want a new one dontcha?:D

[cs]

Well I think it is dead. When you plug it and turn the switch, nothing, like it is even not plugged in. I beat the switch is fried.

Chad

[StevenBauer]

I won't buy power tools from the big box stores anymore. They just don't hold up as well as the same brand/model purchased at a tool store. Check here: www.toolsforless.com

Even a reconditioned Bosch or Porter Cable will last a lot longer than the Home Depot/Lowes stuff.

Steven

[sdowney717]

The sealed bearing on the bottom end of my PC RO sander tends to clog up with dust. You can take off the rubber seal clean and repack, but best to just buy a new bearing. Makes it just like a new sander.

I use the sticky pads and my sander needs a new sticky pad.

[cs]

Well I ended up buying the Hitachi SV13YB 5" Single Speed Random Orbit.

http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0009H4YJ2.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

the price was right and is a step up from the B&D although it may not be as nice as a PC.

Chad

[katiedobe]

Once again I am late to the party but I have used up three sets of pads between the two RO's that I own.
For flat surface and continuous duty I use my Bosch 3725 DVS for heavy duty flat surface stuff and grinding off the epoxy cabosil fairing work. For lighter duty work and a very handy and light sander I pull out the Makita RO BO5010 both use the same 5" velcro pad with 8 holes for dust collection. The bosh has a better dust collection system though.
Let us know how the Hitachi works out. I like their tools.

[cs]

When I got home last night I did a quick test on a piece of scrap pine. It cut way better than the B&D did and felt more comfortable. I'm not a fan of the switch on it, but hey once it is on it seems to do good.

Tonight I plan on sanding some more bubbles w/ epoxy so I should have a good feel for it after that.

BTW their color scheme is cool.

Chad

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

I got a Bosh it's OK the pad gave out and melted a bit, I can be a lil ummm aggressive ;) I'm going to have to try the big box for a replacement as mentioned. I have a dewalt and I abuse the hell out of it, (before I found out about heat guns and scrapers , Thanks Keith ;) ) and it's still going strong.

One thing I do to keep them lasting is when I'm done and about to put them away I blow them out with compressed air. Get in the vent holes this helps them from bogging down and keeps them from burning out as fast.

Good luck.

[cs]

Yeah I've been kinda neglact on blowing them out. Probably contributed to its demiss. Esp. when sanding glass bubbles, lots of dust there.

Chad

[Hal Forsen]

I have to disagree with Steven B on this point; A couple years ago,
on a recomendation from someone here, I bought a Rigid R/O from the orange box and it is a relabeled German made Metabo. It is a very solidly built tool with all the bells and whistles and excellent dust collection. About the same weight as the comparably sized Fein but about 1/3rd the price. I also have an older Bosch that just won't say die.

Good luck
HF

[cs]

Mucho bueno. Way more aggressive and makes short work of sanding. Way better than B&D.

Chad

[Bob Perkins]

If you want to buy your last sander, go Festool. Expensive - but nothing sands better.. Really. its that good. Sold off my old PC stuff... (333 died after many years of hard use..)

[troutman]

Bob, for parts of your current project (wow) the Festool would be appropriate but I think for most boat stuff, especially sanding epoxy, the Festool is like taking a Stradavarious to a fiddlers convention. I'd get the PC and blow it out. Could I possibly sleep in your garage and apprentice?

[pipefitter]

If the hitachi is anywhere near as good as their cordless drills have been at our shop,it has to be a good one. I will 2nd the rigid quality as I have their palm sander and that thing moves some material for a palm sander.Also a thumbs up on the bosch stuff.

[cs]

Really the only thing I can compare it to is the B&D and it will sand circles around B&D, and looks cool doing it.

Chad

[Bob Perkins]

Bob, for parts of your current project (wow) the Festool would be appropriate but I think for most boat stuff, especially sanding epoxy, the Festool is like taking a Stradavarious to a fiddlers convention. I'd get the PC and blow it out. Could I possibly sleep in your garage and apprentice?
troutman - Festool can be considered mostly overkill - with the exception of epoxy.. Rotex mode in their larger sanders cuts epoxy better than anything you have ever used.

My Porter cable eventually died of bottom paint. The metal kills the motor.. Festool doesn't have that problem.

However - I'd still go with the Porter cable for price/performance.

Now - if you want to apprentice.... I have plenty of sanding that needs to be done! :D

[JimConlin]

What Bob said.
I've been fairing out godknowshowmanyhundredsquarefeet of glass-epoxy composite and my Festool RO150 has served very well. It doesn't get nearly as hot as the PC 7336 i'd been using for years and collects dust much better. It's quieter and vibrates less, too, so i blame my CTS on the old PC's.
Festool is replacing this model in the line, so you might get a break on the price.
As Bob said, the PC 7336 is better value, but it's less aggressive and less refined than the Festool.

[pcford]

Did not read through all of the responses but a common problem with sanders is that the armature gets dirty so that the brushes can't make contact. If you can take it apart, clean armature with sandpaper and acetone you might be able to revive it.

[Norm Harris]

Replace the wife (she doesn't know enough about tools). Keep the daughter (just because). Buy a Fein Multi-master and live happily ever after.

[cs]

LOL. I think I will keep her though. Here lately I've been telling her specific tools (ie brand and model #). She is getting better at buying what I ask for and not what she thinks I need. The kid on the other hand is getting tired of buying me tools for Christmas, but she is still trainable.

Chad

[High C]

I have one of the green "Quantum" Black and Decker ROs, a 5", that I have used A LOT. It's even been underwater a couple of times. Once for several days. :eek:

It's still going strong.

I've also worn out a Bosch that cost twice as much. Your mileage will most certainly vary. ;)

[cs]

Just to update.

I had taken the old B&D R/O sander and took it apart the other day. Saw nothing that was really amis. I cleaned it and did some light sanding on some copper that was worn and put it back together. It now turns on but bogs down with the slighest pressure.

Chad

[Ken Hutchins]

If you sanded the copper with Al Ox you probably left some grit imbedded in the copper Al Ox isan insulator, Only use crocus cloth when cleaning copper electrical stuff.

[Ted Chism]

I am in the market for a ROS and somehow I had assumed that Makita was one of the top brands if not the industry standard. But they are only mentioned once in this thread. I have one of their cordless drills that I have been very happy with, and people I talk with always seem pretty impressed with their other products. But I would like to hear from some of you that are more experienced if you think the Makita ROS would be a good investment.