Caulking...

[NGrace]

Getting closer to painting the old dory. She has been out of the water since the spring and drying out, after having been in the water for 3+ years. I've done a lot of scraping and stripping. Before I paint I would to caulk between the bottom planks. Could someone recommend a good adhesive caulking? A few folks I've talked to have suggested Boat Life caulking, and I've heard Sikaflex mentioned once or twice.

Also, when I put the new transom in should I caulk the edges to create more of a water tight seal or just let the timbers swell and seal on their own?

Thanks all.

Nate G.

[Gary E]

Been a lot of talk about PL Premium around here
Search for it

[nedL]

Those around here don't seem to like "Boatlife" to much. Not sure why, I've used it for over thirty years & have no complaints. On a dory bottom I would suggest something that stays soft (at least until she get wet & swells sompletely). I think you will find the bottom seams will close up quite a bit. - Are they open seams (see light through). Dory's I've been familar with had splined seams, so there wasn't too much leaking even when dry. I wouldn't recommend something that bonds really well (I'd stay away from '5200' as you will not be able to remove it easilly in the future).

[Gary E]

Life Calk by Boat Life is fine, I used a lot of it til some showed me something a lot better 25 or 30 yrs ago, but the so called pro's around here dont like it much.

[Bayboat]

Forumites are eventually going to get tired of my commentary on what is caulking and what is not. Filling plank-on-frame seams with Boatlife, Life-caulk, or any other kind of goop is not caulking, and they are not satisfactory substitutes for it. Caulking is filling seams with cotton or oakum with a caulking iron and mallet. Various goop compounds are advertised as "caulk" but that is a misnomer. They are properly used in seams after the caulking is done. They do have other proper uses, but "caulking" is not one of them.
For the transom, I would lay in a thin strip of caulking cotton well smeared with a bedding compound like Dolfinite. .

[Jay Greer]

Just a technical note here. Caulking is the act of driving fiber material such as cotton or oakum into planking seams. Paying is the act of covering the caulking with a flexible compound.
If your dory is of traditional construction it may have been caulked with cotton or it may have been tight seam planked. If you can throw a cat through the seams, you might want to check first and see if it has cotton in the seams. There may be cause for reefing out the old cotton and caulking anew. For paying seams, personaly, I prefer to use traditional seam compounds that are oil based. They are still available. Pettit makes both underwater and topside seam compound.
JG

[Bayboat]

Right on, Jay. I, too prefer traditional oil-based seam compound to the modern "goops" that claim to do more than they really do. Seams should be primed with paint, preferably red lead, before paying. This prevents the oil in the seam compound from penetrating the wood, which will dry out the compound.

[Jay Greer]

Ditto the red lead for priming seams. I wouldn't leave home without it!
JG

[sdowney717]

actually the PL Premium construction adhesive has a good consistancy for seams. It adds stiffness and still has some give. And it wont let go like 5200 and fall out of the seams.

for thick repairs, you can mix it with some sawdust and it will setup even through thick layers. It will bubble up and you just press it back down. One way is to take a plastic wal mart bag, put it over the glue and press, as it sets up it will release the bag. Or you can let the surface skin over, use a putty knife or use your fingers. To get this glue off your hands, spray your hands with PB Blaster rust buster, then wash with soap and water. I tried xylene etc... but all it does is spread it around.

I have even seen people use cement mixed with bottom paint for seam compound. You will find a lot of things will work, some better than others.

[igatenby]

actually the PL Premium construction adhesive has a good consistancy for seams

so do dog turds when they are fresh ..... but neither is a caulking material nor a seam compound. Its a ruddy glue - in other words, its a bodge - a totally inappropriate material for what you are trying to achieve. Incidentally, so is Sikaflex - it will not stick to your old seams which will (assuming the boat is a few years old) have seen oil-based seam compounds.

Use the right materials and you know it will work. Bodge it up if you like taking chances and aren't satisfied with known solutions.

There is a distinct shortage of seam compounds in my location - and I use what shipwrights here have been using for many years - common linseed oil putty with a bit of antifouling primer mixed in to give the worms a bad taste in their mouth.

Stay true friend, stay true - there are no miracle solutions out there (just ask NASA about their success with miracle caulking materials).

Ian

[Lew Barrett]

Pettit Underwater Seam Compound, as mentioned by Jay, is my favorite, and is very popular in these parts. Very easy to apply and tool, packs in and fills the seam easily without leaving voids, is benign and easy to clean up. Accept no substitutes if you value your time. It's exactly what you want.

[nedL]

Yesterday, I was in the middle of a reply completely agreeing with Jay when we lost power here. Oh well, I'm trying again.
Yes, I agree that Pettit makes a real good underwater seam compound that is easy to work with (stays nice & soft to). I don't know how readilly available it is any more so I was offering something that I knew could be found. Yes - best would be a traditional seam compound.
OK & for definition sake I agree with what 'caulking' is (cotton on small seams, cotton then oakum on large seams). :)

[Grouchy_Old_Coot]

Now children play nice…..

It would be a near miracle if just once when someone wrote in with a valid question, that all the “experts” would refrain from their normal wooden boat terminology snobbery and just answer the writer’s question – without attitude and speculation.

Believe it or not, many wooden boat folks are simply more into using their vessel than looking at it or just reading about it. Those folks just want a straight and informed answer – one based on actual first hand experience. Nate seems to be this type.

Don’t get me wrong I admire and respect all the collectors and purists out there, because they have the time and money to keep history alive and wooden boat prices up! God bless them all.:D

But when someone asks a rational question, and is just trying to get their old boat back in the water – it sure would be nice for them to receive an informed, experienced, civilized and respectful reply.:rolleyes:

[Bayboat]

Hi, Grouchy. I agree with most of the sentiments in your rant. But I wonder why you chose to lay it on this particular thread. Most of the replies address the original question pretty directly, and I don't discern any snobbery or other attitudes that bother you. I suggest you repeat your commentary in the Bilge, where it would be indeed applicable to many of the contributions.

[igatenby]

Hi, Grouchy. I agree with most of the sentiments in your rant. But I wonder why you chose to lay it on this particular thread. Most of the replies address the original question pretty directly, and I don't discern any snobbery or other attitudes that bother you. I suggest you repeat your commentary in the Bilge, where it would be indeed applicable to many of the contributions.

I'd hazard a guess that he was referring to my post, which I must admit is borderline rude. The problem that novices encounter on any technical forum, including this one, is their vulnerability to snake oil cures.

Like in any facet of life, there are those looking for the easy way (by this, I mean the "fast buck" type of easy). We get to see it all on here - the fibreglass sheathing, the rubberised films, the "caulk it with Sika", the replacement of wood planks with plastic panels, etc, etc......

I am not against the use of non-traditional materials - and have replaced panel & stile with ply, canvas with dynel, and even use PU varnish and epoxy instead of whatever they used 68 years ago on my boat. I've got literally bucketloads of stainless fasteners in my rebuild too - but thanks to knowledge partly gained here - none of it near or below the waterline.

Quite frankly, the ridiculous, radical and risky solutions posted in this area need to be pointed out as exactly that.

Just my 2c worth - I'm sure there's 98c worth more out there somewhere.

Ian

[sdowney717]

Caulking purpose is to stiffen the hull and prevents leaks. But even cotton caulking can give you weepage where water slowly wicks in by capillary action into the boat.

I did not realize that PL Premium is snake oil. Henkel makes it and claims its totally waterproof.
I suppose slick seam is also snake oil as nobody mentioned using a wax mixed with clay for your bottom seams.

[Dave Fleming]

SD, if your corking seam is made correctly there is NO way for water to wick into the interior of the boat.

Corking seam is a fraction of the plank thickness the rest is wood to wood.

Seam is about 1/3 of the plank thickness but, will vary depending on plank thickness.

No opinion about PL as I am from the old school where making seam putty was done in house.

Workboats had WHITE CEMENT mixed in Red Lead paint below the water line and Linseed Oil putty mixed with Red Lead above the water line.

Yachits usually were all Linseed Oil with either Red Lead Paint or White Lead Powder.
Chandlers carried the KUHLs line of products which worked well too.

[erster]

Pl construction adhesive is more than a snake oil. Its a voodoo product for wooden boat, except for a few and limited set of circumstances that you can get a way with it. Now the window, door and siding, is one of the most incredible alternatives, to flexible caulks, that also can be undone down the road. But on a traditional boat hull,, forget about it, unless you are doing a form of hybrid construction, but comes with a lot of iffffffffsssss from my experience. .


I have just had an occasion to remove some work that was a year old, using the pl flexible stuff, on bedding a bowsprit. I caught it under a dock, and borke it right off at the stem, on my 20 footer, and had to remove part of it back a ways, but did not want to disturb the finish work on my bow deck. A few hours later, and a new piece of 8/4 mahogany, 3 feet long, "s" scarfed, its like new again.

[sdowney717]

I was wondering how the black PL would work in filling the seams on a teak deck.
Has anyone tried this?

[Dave Fleming]

Why, when DAVEY has started making Jefferys Marine Glue 2.

They bought the formula and rights from the defunct original maker and are offering it in their catalog.

Or DETCO makes a good product, that I have had personal experience using.

Or that Teak Systems outfit in Florida.

[PeterSibley]

Dave ,I've no experience of Jefferies .What's so good about it ? Does it refuse to melt on a hot summers days ? Stay flexible when frozen ?

[johngsandusky]

Not to start a fight.......just 2 weeks ago in Chester Nova Scotia I watched Butch Heisler put pl adhesive and sawdust into the seams of a dried out workboat. He said he has good experience with it. He was planning to glass the hull too. He's been a professional boatbuilder for decades.

[Dave Fleming]

dried out workboat.

Ayup, get a few more years out of that tired old hull.
Not that unusual.

'ja 'ast him if he does that to new construction?

[igatenby]

Ayup, get a few more years out of that tired old hull.

But this will kill it:

He was planning to glass the hull too

[sdowney717]

dont knock the PL premium construction adhesive and sawdust trick until you tried it.
You do have to deal with the glue swelling. I wait till it gets real sticky and press it down again. If you use a plastic bag, the glue wont stick to the bag when it sets.

Also this PL keeps the original wood color of the sawdust better unlike epoxy wood mixtures that darken it.

Plus you can mix PL with a solvent into a thin paint and use it as a paint to seal wood surfaces. Been doing this where wood meets wood as a way of keeping water out. It will degrade in full sunlight.
I am also painted this on the backside and edges of some planks, gives it a nice coating.

[johngsandusky]

I didn't ask him much, he talked enough for both of us. He is very entertaining.
I agree that glassing a hull is a desperate means of extending it's life, but it doesn't always spell doom. I owned a sloop that had been glassed 15 years before, and held up just fine. More than one way to do anything.