Sheet guards on shrouds

[Mark Raine]

Can anyone direct me to the construction of the sheet protectors that go on the shrouds at deck level. I have seen plastic one and several years ago saw some wood ones. I was wondering how you would make them. Start out with a turned long pole or 1 1/2" dowel, split it, cut out the center and then reassemble around the shroud? Simple enough but I was wondering if there is another "trick" to it. The ones I was thinking about are about 1.5-2" diam and about 7-9' long, they go around the forward lowers and the upper shrouds to protect the sheets from chafe.

[Art Read]

I think I've seen varnished bamboo split lengthwise with the "joints" drilled out and put back together around the shroud/turnbuckles with marline siezing. Odd, perhaps, but prettier than those godawfull, white, plastic "tubes"...

[Bob Cleek]

Yep, cut a fat dowel lengthwise, rout out a groove down the middle and sieze it together. However, I've always found those shroud rollers a lubberly affectation. Not good seamanship. If your sheet is bearing on the shroud, you haven't got a fair lead on it and a roller isn't going to cure that. Moving the sheet block is a much simpler and more practical solution. Besides, the rollers are up against the sheet when the shrouds on that side are slack, which creates a kink in the shroud at the top and bottom of the roller which will eventually cause metal fatigue in the shroud at those points, particularly with stainless shrouds. Not a good thing.

[Art Read]

Bob... I've always seen 'em more as a "chaffe protector" when tacking. Keeps the jib sheet bowline from hanging up on the turnbuckle too... But you raise a good point when you're heaving to in a blow. I'd probably cut 'em off and put chaffing gear on the sheet itself if nasty weather was in my immediate future.

[Mark Raine]

I'm happy with my working sheet leads. From heads'l clew to jib track block on the caprail ther's not a thing touching em. However it is the lazy sheet that seems to be taking a beating just riding up and down the windward shrouds. I think it is "fraying it". The blocks are those wide doubles and the lead from there is stright to the winch.
I'm not sold on the gaurds but trying to address what I think is the problem.

[Mark Raine]

And not that it would be obvious but I check and the shrouds have no "meat hooks"

[bill hersey]

One thing to think about: they trap moisture. Not good for any shroud material.

[John Teetsel]

I use a 1/8" thick, clear neopreen tube (Home Despot, Ace) long enough, plus an inch or so, to cover the turnbuckles and shroud adjusters. They protect the jib and sheets and keep lines from fouling in the hardware. It's all but invisible, cheap, and it works.

[rodcross]

Mark,

Mine are made of varnished ash, turned, then split, then a groove routed down the center. Riggers tape holds the two halves together and I have a nylon disk at the top of the turnbuckle to permit the tube to rotate freely.

Contrary to what has been said here, these things take a beating and have to be made strong. It has nothing to do with fair leads. The sheet doing the work, the leeward, doesn't go anywhere near the forward stay, but the windward sheet is in constant contact with the stay. Come about in 20kts and the sheets are going to slam on both stays and as you begin to sheet in on the new tack, the sheet will be in solid contact with the stay until the boat completes the turn. Without protection, you can do a lot of damage in a very short period of time. My sheets require 100' @ $.80. I don't want to replace them every year.

Of course, all this being said, if you have a club-foot or self tending boomed jib, then you don't need any type of protection on the stays.

[Nicholas Carey]

Why not get some sailmaker's leather (grey elkhide) and make shroud boots out of it. It looks great, lasts a long time and is easy to slide up for the pre-flight visual check of the rigging.

You should be able to buy leather from any decent sailmaker or from Sailrite.

Make a pattern out of paper to fit your shroud base. it will wind up looking like a long skinny triangle as the base needs to fit around the chainplate tang, toggle and turnbuckle, while the top just needs to wrap around the wire.

Use the pattern to cut the leather. put it in place, rough side out, and stitch it together (using a baseball stitch) around the shroud. You want a snug, but not tight, fit.

See Brion Toss' The Complete Rigger's Apprentice for details on leathering.

Tools and materials?

You'll need a palm (preferably 2: right and left handed), 2 needles of appropriate size (get the good English cast-steel sailmaker's needles), some 7-strand laid dacron sailmaker's thread and a bar of beeswax.

All stuff you should have in your rigging bag anyway.

[cdragon]

Bob Cleek, I have to call you on that post. Shroud rollers are definitely not a lubberly affectation and are a useful and attractive addition to a well turned out yacht. Primarily, they are to allow the sheets to run easily without wear and hang-up while tacking and also to ease the wear on your weather/lazy sheet. They in no way would ever "kink" a shroud and with the plastic washers as mentioned by someone they allow plenty of ventilation to the wire, endfittings and turnbuckle/toggles. I think Bete-Fleming sells nice ones (good place for a proper pigstick as well)that should be varnished and siezed or rigging taped if yer lazy.

[rbgarr]

Shroud rollers, split tubes, turnbuckle covers, etc. are moisture traps that I would never want on my boat, thank you very much, unless I had a paid crew to wipe down the boat every day. Moisture on the standing rigging has to have the opportunity to evaporate, or trouble will result. Note how coated lifelines corrode and fail at the spot where the coating ends and whatever type of fittings are attached.
If the windward sheet is rubbing on the shrouds, just free it with a flip of a loose bight so it lays slack or on deck after a tack.

[Bob Cleek]

Yes, nice varnished ash shroud rollers can look spiffy, but I'd pass on them for the reasons stated already, not to mention that (however slight) they are a questionably worthwhile addition of weight and windage aloft. (Maybe "lubberly" was a little harsh, but...) As said, a flip of the loose sheet should cause it to drop to the deck and off the shrouds. Any problem with clew bowlines (or, God forbid!, snap shackles) hanging up on the shrouds is eliminated by the use of the proper knot. What is called for on headsail sheets is a double bowline on the bight. (A "donkey bowline" I think it may have been called somewhere.) This is a bowline that is tied in the middle of a continuous piece of line, the length of both sheets (no need to chop up expensive line, which maximizes recycling down the road), and it has two loops. One loop is smaller than the other, just small enough to poke through the clew so the longer loop can be rove through it to lock it on. If the line and clew earing are properly sized, so the doubled line that makes the loop up just fits, this arrangement will never shake loose. It is easily removed. It minimizes chafe as well, because the crotch of the two sheet leads is nothing by a "V" running into the bowline knot. A lot easier to tie than making two bowlines and shroud rollers. If all else fails on the shroud chafe front... well, there's always baggywrinkle, which is the seamanly way to deal with it. Baggywrinkle can be made up relatively short and look quite neat. No need to have it look like string mops hanging in the rigging.

[rodcross]

OK! Bob.

As an Italian friend said to me once: Same ting, nudder one kind.

I use a brummel splice, but, whatever floats your boat.

You're still wrong about protecting the sheets from wear against the forward shrouds, unless of course, you're one of those sailors that goes 180 deg. through the wind before sheeting in. smile.gif :cool: :mad: tongue.gif

[rodcross]

Sorry Bob, I don't mean to pick on you. 'Windage Aloft' doesn't really apply here. These rollers weigh about a lb(maybe 1 1/2) a piece and they are not exactly 'aloft'. I'd be worried if they were at the top of the mast.

[Mark Raine]

Hmmmm thanks for the reply and discussion. My boat is a 38' cutter rig with bow sprit, all the sails are free footed ( no clubs). I'm not where it is located right now ( I'm in Alaska ) The shrouds are 3/8" diam. Would I want a large hole in the ash rollers say 3/4" or tight 1/2"? I understand about trapping moisture. It would seem that you'd want these to rotate very easily. But a smooth surface that doesnt rotate could work too. I am guessing that I need about 5-6' length as I recall where the lazy sheet lay. Seem about right?

Mark

[Ian McColgin]

Nice ash or bamboo rollers will not trap moisture but snug fitting plastic things will.

If you're making your own cut a rectangular secion of ash the long way first, strike the groove in both halves, then bind it back together. If you measured right and cut in the right plane, the cerf will leave a square section that can then be eight sided and easily rounded.

Or you could go bird's mouth . . .

Either bright idea will leave you existentially aware of why these damn things are so pri$ey.

I've never observed any work-hardening caused by the rollers on the shrouds, but that's probably because the correct installation does not affix the roller too tightly at the top.

They are nicest in facilitating that overly huge genny getting past the shroud as you tack. Truely, if it's just the sheets, they don't make any worthwhile difference.

A lot of people do not have gymnast's hands. When they grab a shroud with roller they may loose their grip as it turns with them. Proposed OSHA regulations regarding warning lables are pending. The 4,874 page draft is not available for public inspection or comment.

[Bob Cleek]

Yea, the weight and windage aloft is pretty picky, I'll admit. I must be spending too much time around the racing crowd! LOL Point was, every bit counts.

Ian's right on about the advantages of shroud rollers if you are sheeting a lapping headsail over the shrouds. The original question addressed the windward free sheet chafing. Especially if you are not one of us laid back types who luff up to sheet in, the rollers will make it a lot less taxing to get the clew and foot of a big genny trimmed. Then, again, though, if everything is rigged properly and you are trimming right, the genny shouldn't be hitting the shrouds, right? LOL (BTW, luffing up to sheet in will save you the cost of a pair of primary cockpit winches! LOL)

[Carlsboats]

I'm with Rodcross: A set of ash shroud rollers is well worthwhile. Mine turn freely and do not collect moisture, as a big, split washer at the base drains whatever comes in at the top. Why not just go ahead and buy a set of the commercially made ones? I think Fawcett's in Annapolis carries them. Don't know about price, but the ones I have are now 32 years old, so they amortize at a pretty favorable figure. Carlsboats