enamel vs poly

[Pernicious Atavist]

for a dry-sailed, plywood boat (16'x3') that's intended to be inexpensive, but not cheap, would we prefer enamel or polyurethane? keep in mind it's supposed to be a cost-control item.

so far the boat's cost less than $100 and will drain about $30 more before the paint. also, how 'bout a primer? i'm thinking of using "kilz"-brand, two coats, maybe three outside.

thanks! :cool:

[NormMessinger]

If it is opinions you want....

Go with the enamel. House trim paint, it's higher gloss than house paint, would also be fine. Save the two part poly for your Lexus. From what The Chemist has said I gather one part poly really is not true polyethyene.

[Pernicious Atavist]

of course it's opinions i want! enamel house-trim paint. what a great idea! if it'll stay on a house for years, it sure will do the job on the boat. thanks!
as for poly--i used a non-marine poly on my thistle. left it anchored for a week or so and sailed it a few times. when i pulled it out and took it to the high-pressure self car wash--the paint began coming off below the waterline. i've lost confidence in the 'affordable' poly ($12/qt) and don't for this project want the 'spensive bought-at-west-marine type ($22/qt)
good thinking norm--thanks!

[Jim Budde]

I'm with Norm. My little Bobcat is coated with enamel house paint from Ace Hardware .. dragged over sand, hit rip rap and concrete boat ramps ... what's the phrase? .. takes a licking and keeps on protectin'.

Couple of weeks ago I was having problems landing .. wind went to zero about 15' from ramp. Threw bow line to a spectator who immediately pulled the boat half way up a concrete ramp before he heard my pleas to stop. Expected to see bare wood underneath and , believe it or not, scratches did not go deeper than primer.

[Dan McCosh]

Go for semigloss. Polyurethane has little merit other than a high gloss. It's thin, doesn't cover well, is prone to abrasion damage.

[John Blazy]

One step above enamel house paint, I think, is Polyurethane porch floor paint. Many guys use it as the most durable in the 'cheap category' of non-marine paints. Takes a while to dry tho.

[Bob Smalser]

Kelly-Moore makes an "industrial" grade of oil-based alkyd that has a solids content equal to marine grades.

Comes in gloss and sells for 45 bucks a gallon as opposed to 90 or more for marine paints.

[Pernicious Atavist]

thnaks, guys! now--what about primer? kilz? seems to be the best for my $$. i'm figurin' two-three coats then afew coats of the paint.

[Venchka]

Ok, anything wrong with $16.66 to $18.66 per quart marine enamel in gloss or semi-gloss? A gallon + about a cup, thinned according to the manufacturer & applied over C.P.E.S., put 3 coats on the inside and 4 coats on the outside of my 19'-6" x 6'-3" double-ender. 2 quarts ought to do your boat just fine. Or, you could splurge and buy a whole gallon for $49.00 and have plenty left over for the first re-paint in a few years.

George Kirby Jr. Paint Co. (http://www.kirbypaint.com/products/)

Being thrifty is admirable. Penny wise and pound foolish is often more expensive in the long term.

[Pernicious Atavist]

....good points, venchka...good points.....

[Venchka]

Ed,

PS: I love the Kirby paint! But I suppose you figured that out. :D

[Bob Smalser]

Am sure I'd love Kirby paints best of all....but paying extra to ship 50lbs 3000 miles via UPS doesn't pass the common sense test for me.

Dunno about Florida but run the numbers, first.

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
Am sure I'd love Kirby paints best of all....but paying extra to ship 50lbs 3000 miles via UPS doesn't pass the common sense test for me.

Dunno about Florida but run the numbers, first.Bob,

No doubt that West Coasters are Kirby's Challenged with regard to shipping. Or maybe not, I don't know for sure. Where did the 50 pounds come from? Wouldn't that be 2, 3 or 4 gallons worth? I do know that I paid $15.00 shipping for 3 gallons of C.P.E.S. from New Orleans to upstate Maine. I think retailers get a better break on shipping than individuals. The only way to know is to call the retailer and get a quote including shipping. On the other hand, I just paid $10 shipping for a small box of drill bits, stops, countersinks & plug cutters from Lee Valley Tools to New Orleans. Go figure.

[NormMessinger]

Kirby's costs me right at $20 including shipping but it would be a little less if I ordered more than one quart at a time.

[Wild Wassa]

A fine skin using a water based 2 pack marine poly, isn't easy, but nothing compares in weight. If your boat is a Fireball at 16x3? you'll like the weight.

Warren.

[ 10-23-2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Venchka:
No doubt that West Coasters are Kirby's Challenged with regard to shipping. Or maybe not, I don't know for sure.I can tell you that shipping for 2 gallons of red lead primer from New Bedford out to the Glorius Pacific Northwest runs near $75 or thereabouts :eek:

And that was conventional ground freight—plain old UPS.

Shipping raises the price considerable.

[Bob Smalser]

I can tell you that shipping for 2 gallons of red lead primer from New Bedford out to the Glorius Pacific Northwest runs near $75 or thereabouts
Oh, well....looks like the surplus yard in Chimicum on the way to Port Townsend...the guy who buys up all that Navy surplus paint...will be seeing more of me.

[daddles]

No opinion, just experience. My Torch was painted with Wattyl Solarguard - which, seeing you probably don't have it, is just a general purpose, exterior house enamel. Oil based (clean up in turps not water).

The previous owner painted it. He club raced it for a season, pulling it up onto sand. Sailed it a bit the next season. Sold it to me. I've sailed it a couple of times. The paint's now three years old and is coming off along the stem only - a 6" strip that looks like it hasn't stuck to the undercoat.

Cheers
Richard

[Pernicious Atavist]

geez! so many options! :confused: i'm a few days away from painting, so i'll have some thinkin' time.

warren, this boat isn't a fireball (type?) just a narrow sharpie-style of my own. i mentioned to (venchka was it?) that it's an EXTRA-sharpie at 16x3. i'm rethinking sail design, having come up with a batwing-ish type at 80ft, but may regain my senses and go with a leg-o-mutton at maybe 50 and a jib.....

[Pernicious Atavist]

geez! so many options! :confused: i'm a few days away from painting, so i'll have some thinkin' time.

warren, this boat isn't a fireball (type?) just a narrow sharpie-style of my own. i mentioned to (venchka was it?) that it's an EXTRA-sharpie at 16x3. i'm rethinking sail design, having come up with a batwing-ish type at 80ft, but may regain my senses and go with a leg-o-mutton at maybe 50 and a jib.....

[Aramas]

I had an intersting conversation with a guy at a paint store the other day. I asked him what he recommended as a clear outdoor coating that was cheap but not crap, and whether to go for two pack.
He replied "It's all going to deteriorate eventually anyway, but two pack is a lot harder to get off."

It made me think.

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by Aramas:

"... <snip> but two pack is a lot harder to get off."

One way to solve this is to paint the two pack poly over an epoxy foundation, when stripping you strip the epoxy, the best of both worlds. From the boats that I've stripped, two pack polyurethane is very difficult to remove, infact I find it almost impossible to remove quickly and poly stripping bears no resemblance to the removal of the other media, like the enamels and acrylics.

Warren.

[ 10-24-2003, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Stephen Smith]

Us Scots are careful with our money and the boys around here swear by Woolworths house paint. It seems to last a good bit longer on the older boats and is a good quality paint.
Steve

[Wild Wassa]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pd084f5f2897fc576a83e4a0b03092572/fc21a33f.jpg A dedication to those who strip two pack polys. Photo by WW.

[ 10-24-2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Paul Denison]

The guy at the paint store told me not to use Kilz, latex or oil for exterior applications. He sold me son Zinser sp? oil based exterior grade primer.

[Pernicious Atavist]

zinser? yeah, i think i saw something close to that spelling at sears tonight (buying YET more sanding discs) i'll consider that--thanks!

the oak transom went on tonight.