If not varnish then what?

[bart]

I've built a Swampscott Dory with Red Cedar planking and Doug Fir bottom and frames. I want a matte finish on the inside that is durable, easy to recoat, doesn't darken, and has UV protection. I can recoat a couple times a year but primarily I just want the wood protected. I have Deks #1 on now but I'm not crazy about the smell. The boat is trailered, covered outside with tarp overhead, and used year around.

[Thorne]

I'll admit that I gave up on various 'boat soup' mixes and ended up going with varnish on the interior of my Chamberlain dory skiff, but that doesn't mean they won't work for you.

http://www.luckhardt.com/newyoke3.jpg

I'd guess that the alternates are either some of the other 'boat soup' or oil-based compounds, or the high-tech varnish-like products like Cetol. My issue wasn't the smell, but the stickiness in the heat, and lack of real sealing -- I kept getting mud working into the grain of the seats, floorboards, and gunwales.

Do you have epoxy and/or CPES in the wood, and so need good UV protection for that? Have you considered using Deks #2 over your #1, then lightly sanding it for the matte finish?

How about Le Tonkinois - http://www.tarsmell.com/ http://www.tarsmell.com/Images/letonkinois.jpg

[uncas]

Will try again..case of fat fingers this AM.
At the WBS, saw a product that may meet the expectations of those who like the varnish look. Looks like varnish ( matte or otherwise ), goes on easier, dries in 2 hours, no sanding nec. UV protection, uses a bonding technique, goes over old varnish, costs about the same as epi, AND does not look like CETOL!!!!! :)
Now all I need is to find the brochure I grabbed. Will get back to this if I find it. Perhaps someone else remembers.

pss. forgot to add, the stuff does not dry out in the can.

[bott]

Will try again..case of fat fingers this AM.
At the WBS, saw a product that may meet the expectations of those who like the varnish look. Looks like varnish ( matte or otherwise ), goes on easier, dries in 2 hours, no sanding nec. UV protection, uses a bonding technique, goes over old varnish, costs about the same as epi, AND does not look like CETOL!!!!! :)
Now all I need is to find the brochure I grabbed. Will get back to this if I find it. Perhaps someone else remembers.

pss. forgot to add, the stuff does not dry out in the can.

Will it do my taxes? :D

[uncas]

bott.
Okay, it is Thursday. I'm up for a bit of teasing but....
As I spend a lot of time varnishing, I mean a lot of time with a can or 320 sandpaper, I thought my post was relevant. :)

I'm always looking for something, whether it is a new varnish or not, to use.

[dmede]

Bart I’m building a Red Cedar & Doug Fir skiff right now myself and am looking for exactly the same finish you are. I've been experimenting with a Varnish/Oil blend on a scrap piece of WRC and so far I like it.

I mixed up a 50/50 blend of old spar varnish and boiled linseed oil, with a splash of turps to thin. It goes on very easy, more like an oil than varnish. It soaks in well and wipes up like an oil but once it dries it hardens closer to a varnish. It takes more coats to get some build and it will probably never build like a true varnish. Definitely somewhere in between an oil finish and varnish interms of hardness and protection from what I can tell. But it is much easier to apply, no sanding between coats.

What I may try next is a Var/Tung oil blend to see how that is. I'm concerned about BLO's reputation to darken in sunlight and I'm not sure if the varnish in the blend is enough to stop this from happening.

From what I can tell this is essentially what Le Tonk & Varnol are, a varnish/oil blend.

dave


Jamie, I'd like to know more about the stuff you mentioned, you remember the name yet?

[Steve Paskey]

How about Le Tonkinois - http://www.tarsmell.com/ http://www.tarsmell.com/Images/letonkinois.jpg

For what it's worth, as I recall Iain Oughtred is a fan of this stuff.

[bott]

bott.
Okay, it is Thursday. I'm up for a bit of teasing but....
As I spend a lot of time varnishing, I mean a lot of time with a can or 320 sandpaper, I thought my post was relevant. :)

I'm always looking for something, whether it is a new varnish or not, to use.

Yes, it was a direct (germane) answer to the question.

But I couldn't resist the jab. I don't want to undermine the varnish toil, I'm just starting my lifetime battle myself.

[uncas]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid160/p0550dc87ba9beebfcac1484d9cb76451/f4e8493b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid159/pbed9c00a5d08f5b35a16cfc397026479/f4fad02a.jpg

ya see...I have a lot of varnish...Go ahead, shoot me for looking for alternatives.

[uncas]

Sorry Bott...
Am just a wee bit touchy on this subject. :)

[StevenBauer]

I thought it was Varnol that Iain Oughtred liked.

Steven

[Thad Van Gilder]

deks olje...

been using it for years, and I love it!

-Thad

[uncas]

Thad
It was just a thought. I'm always looking. Have yet to hear of anyone using this stuff.
Where is that brochure. Really have to find it.

[Nanoose]

Will try again..case of fat fingers this AM.
At the WBS, saw a product that may meet the expectations of those who like the varnish look. Looks like varnish ( matte or otherwise ), goes on easier, dries in 2 hours, no sanding nec. UV protection, uses a bonding technique, goes over old varnish, costs about the same as epi, AND does not look like CETOL!!!!! :)
Now all I need is to find the brochure I grabbed. Will get back to this if I find it. Perhaps someone else remembers.

pss. forgot to add, the stuff does not dry out in the can.

Did you find out what this is, Uncas?

[uncas]

I've got the bloody brochure in my sea bag... I know I have it...
But, taking things off Uncas for the winter and trying to get everything in the car, it maybe aboard...I'll find it even if I have to contact WB. for a list of exhibitors.

Shyte...found it! Crabcoat, Becker Lab. 6205 HYWY, 91 N Mountain City TN.
4237276425

oh yes....www.crabcoat.net

[uncas]

Let me know what you think. I'm thinking about trying it.

Bryan...yup...that is the one...just posted the info.

[Steve Paskey]

I thought it was Varnol that Iain Oughtred liked.

Steven

Now that you mention it, maybe it is. What I know is from an article in Watercraft magazine earlier this year. I'll have to look it up.

[Eric D]

Unacas,
do you have any more info or price list. Went to the web site and it is pretty generic. I dropped them a line so....

Just curious. Thanks for digging it up, I am always looking as well.

Eric

[uncas]

Eric..pm me.. I have some prices etc. but probably can't put out there on the forum.

[Eric D]

Uncas, Pm'd you...

[donald branscom]

I've built a Swampscott Dory with Red Cedar planking and Doug Fir bottom and frames. I want a matte finish on the inside that is durable, easy to recoat, doesn't darken, and has UV protection. I can recoat a couple times a year but primarily I just want the wood protected. I have Deks #1 on now but I'm not crazy about the smell. The boat is trailered, covered outside with tarp overhead, and used year around.

I used a product called Cetrol made by Siekens. It has red iron oxide in it. It does not have to be sanded between coats. I used it on my teak dorade vents and did not touch them for two years !

[Dale Genther]

Fred Z. - We have put the Ultimate Sole product on several Island Packets and one Bristol. The owners seem to be happy with it . It is a little difficult to use but results in a nice looking finish that holds up well. It also has a "non-skid" property to it.

[bart]

The response to my question is appreciated. Thorne: stickiness is a concern of mine as well. Good idea on sanding varnish. I'll try it on a test peice. Dmede: Linseed turns almost black but I wonder if a UV blocker would prevent that. Keep in touch, it sounds like we're on the same path. Thad: The Deks I put on last year is flaking off but worse for me is the chemical smell. Donald: I don't think the color would be a problem on WRC. I'll look into Cetrol. Le Tonkinois dries shiny I think but again maybe I could sand it. Has anyone ever used Tung oil with a UV blocker? I have CPES under the Deks and it needs the protection.

[bart]

Just got answers to my questions from the Le Tonkinois guy at the above website: You make a good point about questions on the web site. As it happens, I've just prepared a 'Primer' for LeTonkinois that should be up on the site in the next few days. Now for your questions:Will Le Tonkinois work over Deks? * yes, because Le Tonk is an all natural product, it will go over just about anything. but you get the best result...in looks and durability...with Le Tonk next
to the wood. What do I need to do to prep the hull? * a good sanding, you want the wood to be smooth and
clean. Does Le Tonkinois protect against UV? * Le Tonk is a very durable varnish, it stands up to UV very well. Is the finish shiny and if so how can I lose the shine? * Le Tonk produces a very beautiful varnish finish, glossy but not glittery or glassy. If you want to
flatten the finish, you add a product called Gelomat (which we sell). Only the last coat of varnish needs to be flattened to achieve the look. You can see how it goes with your base coats, and if you think it's too shiny then you can order the Gelomat. If I lightly sand the top coat to make it matte do I lose the UV protection? * the best way to flatten is with Gelomat, I think a light sanding might degrade the durablility. I've got a 16' boat and I figure a little under 100'
sq of wood inside the boat. How much Le will it take to do all the coats recommended? * One liter of Le Tonk covers 20 sq. meters on bare wood, 30 sq meters on the recoats. How long before I have to recoat? * this is very subjective, depends on how you use the
boat, your latitude, if you keep it covered, etc. however you can expect Le Tonk to last longer than what you have used in the past. When the gloss gets dull, do a very light sanding and recoat, Le Tonk will spring right back to life. Maintain this schedule and
you'll never have to strip again. If you order, the Le Tonk 'Primer' will be included in your package. If you would like to read the 'Primer'
first, send your address and I'll send one to you.

[John Gearing]

Okay, I'll be the heretic and say "why not paint the boat instead?" Here, for those who may be interested, is a typical color scheme favored by legendary designer/builder of small boats, Pete Culler:
"Often he used bottle green for the hull, with a black sheerstrake, yellow bead, and barn red gunwale. He referred to these as 'schooner colors.' He almost always painted the inside a light or French gray and always oiled his inside skiff bottoms." From "Pete Culler's Boats" by John Burke.

To my mind, workboats are workboats and yacht tenders are yacht tenders. A dory, being a working boat, ought to look like what she is. But hey, it's your boat, so do what you want and what makes you happy. I just felt compelled to point out that paint, thoughtfully done, is a perfectly acceptable finish for a boat such as this.

[bart]

John you are so right! It should be painted because of the practicality of paint and that aspect made it traditional. Now here's where the human factor comes in. I am proud of this boat. Not proud because I did such a great job and came out with a flawless boat. Quite the contrary. I'm proud to be associated with such a wonderfully beautiful design. I'm proud I finished it. I want to be able to see all the mistakes because I can trace each one of those frames and planks all the way from the woods. I literally dragged the cedar 1/4 mile out to the road a foot at a time. I know the story from start to finish and it's all there to look at any time I want.

[StevenBauer]

I love using Le Tonk. Solvent free, smells great. Easy to use, holds up great. I'd like to see that primer. :)

Steven

[sdowney717]

Nyalic
This has to be the ultimate finish. It goes on as a topcoat and 100% UV proof

http://www.nyalic.co.nz/
www.nyalic.com

Or

I have put the wood tone natural cedar deck stain made by Behr on teak and it gives it a nice look. Water based and keep your leading edge wet or you will see lap marks. 26$ per gallon. It does not smudge color the wood, you still see the grain when it dries and they claim a 4 to 6 yr life span.

[uncas]

I think I'm gonna try that stuff demonstrated at the WBS this year.