seaworthiness of tirrik boat

[stelioshellas]

hellow,
I'd like to ask if someone has any experiance
about the seaworthiness of Iains Oughtred
tirrik boat(or her close cousins,arctic tern,ness yawl).
I know that these boats are open boats,but can be decked
with a camper deck flash to the sheerline?
Will this add on the boats abillity in rough sea contitions?
(Short passages between islands of Aegean sea 10-30 miles
is the question).
Any word about this design would be very helpfull.thanks.;)

[Thorne]

Seaworthiness is nearly impossible to define, so you may need to be a LOT more specific about wave/swell size and frequency, planned load/cargo, motors, sail rigs, etc.

From what little I've heard of Aegean conditions, you get occasional very strong winds that can easily sink small open boats, but since you don't list a locaction I'm not sure of your experience in local weather.

Personally I'd go for a decked sailboat, or at the very least something like John Welsford's Pathfinder. I'd want an outboard motor that could be easily operated while sailing, and that could be carried up out of the water when not in use -- i.e. tilt-transom mount.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/projects/earley/ocracoke%207lorez.jpg

[John E Hardiman]

The seaworthiness of a small open boat is a lot like the effectivness of a weapon....it all depends of the experience of the operator.

If you are reasonably experienced and don't overload it, almost any well designed small boat will operate in any ocean condition. Otherwise, I've seen people swamp them at the dock.

Hard decking over a small boat is not to be considered lightly if you don't have the skill to make the calculations. Small changes in light ship CG can make big changes in overall stability. Contact the designer if you want to deck it over, or selected a design that already has a deck.

[Clinton B Chase]

Post at Oughtred forum:

http://www.mavc2002.com/cyforum/index.php

[Don Maurer]

The decks Iain shows on his plans are actually below the sheer line, so they will do nothing about keeping out the sea. They will add some floatation assuming they are well sealed. You could modify the decks to make them flush with the sheer. There is a flush deck shown in Iain's book but they are not shown on the plans that way.

[Bob Ketterling]

I am in the process of building Ian's Gannet. I also wanted decks at sheer height. I wrote Ian and he agreed to draw them up. The cost was not unreasonable. I should have been more descriptive in what I asked for, as they did not come out exactly as I hoped. I guess that is part of the difficulty of working out the details though the mail rather than in person or over the phone.

[andrewe]

As a builder of one of I.O.s boats I can´t see that raising the decks
by a few inches will effect the stability and have also considered boxing in
the side seats to reduce the amount of water in a swamping. As said before, how you use it is more pertinent. I am planning a cruise in the area ( I´ve sailed there in larger boats) and looking at what the locals use
one of I.O. boats would fit in nicely.
Andrew

[Doug Canada]

Tirrik is high on my list as well.

Another one on my list is from the Swallow Boat company, the Storm 17.
http://www.swallowboats.com/index1.htm

May be of help, http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288809463


Doug


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[John Bailey]

I spend summers in Greece on the Ionian islands. My wife and I guide sea kayak trips around Kerkya, Lefkas and Kephalonia. I love the small workboats in the area. I've taken hundreds of pictures of them as we have kayaked. They are similar in looks to the double ended Oughtred designs, but are much beamier and much more heavily built. I haven't seen many with sails, but they seem very seaworthy. Of the Oughtred designs, I thought the lines of the Tirrik and the Caledonia Yawl had the most similiar appearance. They seem to have, relatively, more beam.

I would think these boats would be perfect for the area. However, as John E. said, the operator will have a lot to do with the seaworthiness. If you build one, it would be a good excuse for me to come visit and take a look at it. What part of the Aegean would you be sailing?

John

[stelioshellas]

thank you all for your thoughts,
-John,I will sail on the East coast of the mainland in the area
of Platamon beach.The boats you have seen(kaiki is the name)are very seaworthy, beamy and very heavy build as you noticed.
-Thorne,you are right both for the specification of the use and for the contition of Aegean sea.There are (very) sudden strong winds called 'meltemia'.One other reason for the difficulty of the sea is that in the Aegean the waves are close one another.For every meter(3ft) of wave height,there is a distance of 7 meters for the next wave,when the same distance in the Atlantic is 18 meters.I was thinking of the balanced lug
for the simplicity.2-3 people will be the crew and the load nothing extreme(the common staff for day sailling).There is a thought for a 5HP engine.
-Andrewe,I also think that a deck with a little crown flash to the deck
will not effect the stabillity of the boat and I agree that another of I.O. boats
will fill in nicely.(In August I launched an Acorn dinghy.Small boat but nice). As John said...."it all depends of the experiance of the operator.That is a true.;)

[Thorne]

Swallow Boats has a new 21' daysailor that might do the job -

http://www.swallowboats.co.uk/content/view/99/30/

Water ballast, self-draining cockpit, multiple sail plans...

It is my (very basic) understanding that the wave distance often determines the length and other critical design elements of local boats -- but I'm clueless as to what impact a shorter wave distance/repetition/whatever would have on hull design. And I'll guess that the meltemias would make the ability to operate under bare poles essential, as well as use of a sea-anchor or whatever to allow control of the direction the bow or stern is pointing. If most of the local boats are short and beamy, then that is probably the best shape to use.

[Mr Smee]

You can see a recently finished Tirrik at :cool: www.grapevinepointboatworks.com/tirrik.html (http://www.grapevinepointboatworks.com/tirrik.html).
I asked I.O. the same question when I ordered my plans this last summer. He said the boats were quite dry. If raising the decks will cause handling (not to mention spiling) problems then maybe using a snap-on waterproof canvas/material over the shear would keep out some of the slop. Just a thought.

Mr. Smee
Still chasing the croc with the clock.

[John Bailey]

I think that might be Grapeview Point Boatworks.

John

[Steve Paskey]

Yup. Here it is:
www.grapeviewpointboatworks.com/tirrik1.html (http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/www.grapeviewpointboatworks.com/tirrik1.html)


http://www.grapeviewpointboatworks.com/images/tirrik/current_tirrik.jpg

[AlexMel]

The tirrik looks beautiful. I checked the link you provided.

Stelio,

I am an amateur boatbuilder in Greece as well, currently looking for my next project in the 14-17' range (garage width limits boat beam to maximum 2 meters). I sail on the island of Skyros for the most part and around the coast of Athens. I am currently considering Arch Davis designs. Any thoughts anybody about the Laughing Gull? The self-bailing feature of this particular design looks extremeley attractive. On a more traditional note, I am also captivated by the designs of Francois Vivier, and, especially, the Youkou-Lili. Check it out:
http://www.francois.vivier.info/albums/album_youkou-lili.html

Alex

[AlexMel]

Mr. Bailey,

I also do kayaking in Greece but mostly in the Aegean. Here are some pictures of the two Chesapeake 17s I have built.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2101326279

Can you provide more info on the trips you organise?

[John Bailey]

Alex,

My wife and I did trips exclusively around the island of Corfu for many years. As we have gotten older, we have downsized and only do private custom trips. The last two years we did 200 km. of the west coast from Iguouminista to Nidri and a 300 km. trip around the island of Kephalonia. I hope I spelled those names close. We go inn to inn and eat in restaurants. Best job I ever had. We don't have any trips planned right now for next summer. It is a great part of the world, and I hope to do some sailing there some time. I would love to do some open boat sailing, like in a Tirrik.

John

[Doug Canada]

Is Iain very acommodating?
Has anyone ever talked to Iain Oughtred?
I was wondering if he could / would "designing in" a motor well as well as storage under the (larger) decks in the bow & stern as long as a motor well, in my (future) Tirrik.
Someday, wife permiting, I'd like to build one.

Doug


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[stelioshellas]

Alex,
I like the lines of Laughing Gull but I have the feeling that this boat will "work" at his best in protected waters(just an opinion).I think in the island of Skyros there are some old shipyards.Maybe these old boatbuilders have
some plans for a sailboat that fit your needs(you can build with modern materials).At least you will ask an experts opinion.About Mr Viviere plans
I had them in mind and I like the lines of Illur.If you like these lines you
can look Paul Gartside's site and have a look at Raid Finland Archives.
I have build 4 years ago two Chesapeake's 18 kayaks and I do some sea kayaking near Larissa coast and on lake Plastira in Karditsa.
-Jonh,I envy you.There are very beautifull places in this part of Greece.
How long did it take to make this trip.Is your kayak a wooden one?

[John Bailey]

Alex,

We planned 16 days for the circumnavigation of Kephalonia. It took us 13 days of paddling, 2 days being weatherbound and one more day to sightsee because we finished early.

The trip from Igouminitsa to Nidri was about 225 Km. and took us 12 days with weather delays.

Your'e right, it is a beautiful place, my favourite area in the world.

Our kayaks in Greece are plastic. I used to have 9 kayaks in the states. I sold them all, built a woodshop, gonna build bunches of wood boats, including my next kayak.

John

[Don Maurer]

Is Iain very acommodating?
Has anyone ever talked to Iain Oughtred?
I was wondering if he could / would "designing in" a motor well as well as storage under the (larger) decks in the bow & stern as long as a motor well, in my (future) Tirrik.
Someday, wife permiting, I'd like to build one.

Doug


.

Iain has been very helpful when I have spoken to him on the phone and corresponded through letters. He shows general layouts for a motor well on the plans for Caledonia Yawl and I thought also on Ness Yawl and the original Ness Boat, but I haven't looked at those plans in a while so I am not sure about that. He also has a section on motor wells in his book. From what I gather, the design must be custom fitted to a specific outboard, so I doubt he would supply you with any more than a general construction plan. You would probably need to mock it up yourself to get the proper dimensions for your outboard.