Help design take-apart or folding beach cruiser

[riptide]

I've been lurking for a while, but would like some help with a somewhat whacky idea I have. This is going to sound like a Duckworks design contest, but I'm serious.

I teach legal writing for a living. The pay is lousy for a lawyer, but it has one great advantage: June and July are mine to do as I wish. I've been doing a bit of sailing and would like to do more, a lot more.

I'd like to build a small beach cruiser that I can sleep on for a week at a time and trail up and down the east coast for two months in the summer. No motor -- strictly oars as an auxilliary. Nothing unusual about that, but here's the catch:

During the school year, I want to keep it in a 5 x 10 storage unit.

I live in a condo, and don't have a garage or driveway or yard. I currently keep some stuff in a 5x5 storage unit, but it's only half full.
I've been pricing boat storage options, and the cost of upgrading to a 5x10 unit is all I'm willing to spend. The entire boat plus a small trailer (like one of those Harbor Freight utility things) would have to fit in the unit.

One thought would be to build a two-piece takeapart boat similar to Bolger's "tandem brick." (The tandem is three pieces -- two "bricks" with a spacer in the middle.) Imagine a Brick, with the following changes: an 8-foot flat section to the middle, a cat ketch rig, watertight compartments for buoyancy and storage fore and aft, and a tent over the cockpit. Then split it into two 4x8 pieces. Got it?

That would work, but it would be ugly as, well, a brick. Anyone have a better idea?

Oh, and for inspiration, have a look at a blast from the past, the 1940s era "Trav-L-Boat". See: http://www.singlewheel.com/Trav-L-BoatFR.htm

Wouldn't that be cool outfitted for sail?

http://www.singlewheel.com/TravLBoat/BrianTravL/IMG_0358.jpg

[htom]

An over-stretched to 16', partly decked, version of Dave Gerr's nesting dinghy, maybe. Write to him and ask before building, that's a huge stretch. Usually such things are trying to squeeze into (say) a 4'x4'x2' place and you are willing to store (and need) a bigger boat.

http://www.gerrmarine.com/small.html

Note that the two boats here were made smaller, not longer.

http://www.johndanicic.com/arrogantwoodworker/woodworker/dingy%20building%20pages/dinghyPhotos/nesterdinghy.pdf#search=%22gerr%20nesting%20dinghy %22

[Wes White]

Have you seen Bolger's folding schooner?

[MarkC]

Wouldn't it be easier to purchase a 'fold-up' kyak?

They come with just about all options from just paddles through to full-expedition kit. From smallish through to 'big'uns'.

They fold away in bags and you can store them in your cupboard.

You can take them on the train, bus, friend's car, plane, etc...

They can be bought new or secondhand.

Klepper Faltboot, Puch, Feathercraft. - all offer sailing-rigs.

They are even offering decent folding canoes now. The Ally Tour 16,5 DR is well regarded by the paddling-press.

[StevenBauer]

A friend has a Klepper folding sailboat. With a cool folding trailer. The whole boat fits in a few duffel bags. He even puts a 5 HP outboard on it sometimes. Very cool setup. Try googling "Klepper Master"

Steven

[riptide]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I want something I can sleep aboard. That rules out the folding kayaks. I'm familiar with the Klepper master -- a friend of mine has one. Interesting little boat, but I can't see sleeping aboard it either, and it doesn't have any built in buoyancy other than the sponsons on the side.

[MarkC]

Sleep in a hotel. Eat, drink, Wash. Paddle the next day refreshed.

There are always hotels along the seashore somewhere.

Take a friend!

[openboater]

build a larger replica of the Trav-l-boat. each half 7 or 8 feet.

put a dodger on the bow.

That boat looks great. You'd have one of the few boats with a licence plate and motor vehicle inspection sticker. and if epoxy coated, it would be self storing.

[Thorne]

I'd say go for either a lifestyle change (house with driveway and/or garage) or spend the $$ on yard storage somewhere.

Can't imagine that you'd want to spend an hour prying trailer, boat parts, spars, etc of of a storage unit, assemble, tow, finish assembly with spars and rigging, take boat out, bring back to dock and go thru it all in reverse.

A Harbor Frieght trailer (and I have a modified one for a 14' boat) would be a serious hassle to set on end in a storage unit -- you strong like Kalifor-nia Governator? You'd have to rig it to fold, but extend the tongue somehow, or bolt things together...not fun.

Here's my trailer mod - go to end of my pages to see it.
http://www.luckhardt.com/dory1.html

The trailer is HEAVY -- just propping it up for bearing adjustments is at the max I can handle.

http://www.luckhardt.com/hfutiltrlr.gif
http://www.luckhardt.com/trailermod1.jpghttp://www.luckhardt.com/trailermod13.jpg

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Your design program is skirting an important consideration. Any boat that is human powered has to be designed with that in mind. Most boats in the row/sail catagory are rowboats first and sailers second.
That is because a single human can only exert about a ¼HP for any length of time. If you successfully design a hull with all the goodies you mention and it rows like a sodden log the program is a failure.
And, trying to sleep afloat in something that is only 4' wide is probably beyond my abilities. But, that doesn't mean someone else couldn't do it.
Here's a row/sail of the approximate dimensions you described. It's S&G. If you can figure away to divide it in half it may solve your problem. But, I don't think it is ideal for sleeping.
http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/OT16_study.htm

[riptide]

Thorne: I appreciate your point, but I don't expect to use the boat during the school year -- I'm too busy grading assignments. I'll pull it out of storage once a year, use it for two months, then put it back until next year. As for muscling a trailer around, Harbor Freight has a folding model specifically intended to store vertically, with wheels that allow you to roll it in that position. I've seen one assembled and it's manageable. See:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42709

Chuck: I appreciate your point too, but I'd be content with a small sailboat that rows reasonably well. I'm not entering this thing in the Everglades challenge. If there are days when conditions are such that I can comfortably cover only 5 or 6 miles under oars, so what?

I see no reason why I couldn't do what I have in mind in something the size of William Atkin's FINKLE DINK, a nine-foot sailing pram.
(see http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Dinks/FinkelDink.html )

Lots of folks spend MONTHS thru-hiking the Appalachian trail with 30-40 pounds of gear (or even less) that takes up no more than 3-4 cubic feet of space. Add 4 cu. ft. of watertight storage to each end of Finkle Dink, with floorboards that raise to make a sleeping bed. With a good waterproof tent over all for sleeping and rainy days, puttering along a coastal shoreline in such a boat ought to be more enjoyable than hiking the trail, and less strenuous.

[Thorne]

Yabut...

You'll be better off with the 12" tire model -
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90154

Now tell me how you will balance a 16' boat on an 8' trailer, partiucularly when the tongue is only about 2' longer, leaving you with a total of 10' if you scrape the back of your tow vehicle with the front of the boat and don't turn tightly -- in reality you'll need about 12" of clearance, so you've got 9' of trailer, with 7' of boat hanging off the back.

As I did, you will need to stretch the length of the trailer tongue, and it is easiest to extend this aft to a roller for the back of the boat -- both my trailer and a friend's were done this way. That then keeps the thing from folding unless you bolt/unbolt the tongue extension every time you store it.

The only way I can think it would work is to transport it in pieces, then assemble on the ramp and drag it down to the water on rollers...

[htom]

Pick a longer design that you can cut in half, and carry the two parts on the small trailer, joining them when you get to the water. I really think you'd be happier with a different storage scheme; little boats can go to the lake on the weekend for a daysail.

[riptide]

Okay, you've convinced me that I should rethink the program.

I've started a new thread -- 'SMALLEST VIABLE SLEEP-ABOARD BEACH CRUISER.' I'd like suggestions on that, and I'll just have to figure where to store it.

[paladin]

as far as the trailer....make the trailer with a retractable tongue, made by two sliding square steel tubes one inside the other held in place with thru holes and bolts secured with quick disconnect pins....you back the trailer into the storage, then disconnect it from the vehicle, and release the tongue and retract it to 8 feet overall...
The boat can be about 8 feet or slightly less, with two foldover sections, 5 1/2 to 6 foot beam....I would consider a small 2 hp outboard...with a cat ketch rig made from sailboard sails or similar....

[Mike Vogdes]

B&B makes a nice 9' nesting dink that may fit your needs. http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cpaw.htm

Thorne's trailor modified a little, and transporting the boat nested, may fit in your 5x10 storage unit, may need to remove the tires for storage because it actually measures 5'-1 1/2".

[John Turpin]

We built the B&B nesting pram. Great little boat and stores neatly on my garage wall.

http://teamturpin.org/twopaw8/cpawnest11.gifhttp://teamturpin.org/twopaw8/cpawnest21.gifhttp://teamturpin.org/twopaw8/cpawsail.gif

My project site: http://teamturpin.org/twopaw8/projectpics1.htm

[Wade Tarzia]

I applaud the idea if only because the creativity will be worth the effort. There are challenges, but that's why humans have brains.

I built an outrigger sailing canoe in an apartment because I had nowhere to store my sailing dory except for my mother's house two hours away after a divorce. I reasoned that an outrigger canoe would be a minimalist design letting me build it in the spare bedroom and store *inside* the apartment. For this purpose the main hull needed to break into two pieces. For simplicity I chose a 14 foot hull (wish I had made it longer, now) that looks like a 22 inch wide, 19 inch deep, double-ended Banks dory.

As for breakdown: hull bolted together with simple through-bolts (leakage held back by wells in each half-hull, though water swelled wood around lower bolts and in reality little ever really came through; learned later you can seal with wet-suit foam rubber washers). I added an 8 foot ama (float), cross beams 6.5 feet, (all lashed with rope; flexible, strong, and cheap), leeboard, sail rig (started with a sprit, then a lug, ended with a crabclaw)), and there it was: a 14 ft sailing outrigger that could be built in a bedroom and stored in a walk-in closet (except for the 14 foot crabclaw spars, gotten through a window), and transported in a small SUV (you could use a small station wagon with rear seats folded down and spars and ama on roof).

Were I to do it again, I might be persuaded to build a skin-on-frame, rounded-hull version to keep it light and efficient. I built way heavy because it was my first boat and I was a doofus. But no real regrets. I could have had a 21/24 footer by making it in three sections (see Gary Dierking's website and his Wa'apa sailing canoe).

For a sleep-aboard, a fatter canoe hull is in order, or a monohull, but the outrigger design makes a very stable platform -- you will not be tossed into the sea with a 7 or 8 foot beam outrigger canoe -- and the overall boat is still pretty light. A guy named Tim Anderson (seek his website and his great sailing travel logs) slept aboard two of his outrigger canoes anchored in calm water during an Alaska cruise and New Zealand cruise (the outrigger used in New Zealand was only 19 inches wide!), though prferred to sleep ashore when camp sites were available. Tim can sleep under "rigorous conditions" but you can design a more accomodating hull for that -- see Chesapeake Light Craft's Mbuli sailing canoe which offers an 8 foot sleep-in, roofed-over cockpit, which a CLC guy said he meant for beach-camping, but wouldn't mind using at anchor in a calm anchorage (so he said at the recent Newport Wooden Boat Show).

Yes, assembly and transport time is a pain in the ass for my particular boat. At first I had to carry the parts from the apartment, through doors and steps (4 bundles: each hull-half, an ama/crossbeam bundle, and rigging/gear), put in the truck, drive an hour to New Haven, assemble, and launch. Assembly time about 45 minutes when nobody comes over to ask questions! My Polynesian rig is complex, so shorter time for a simple western rig such as a standing lug. I love sailing, so I have to swallow this time though am not happy abou it. Now that I own house again, will gladly go back to trailering and a hull made in one piece. But a folding design is a way to have a boat under certain conditions. It is a noble solution, and will stretch your creativity -- no bad thing.

Also, look at Steve Ladd's 12 foot boat (and read his "Three Years in a 12 Foot Boat") which had clever sleep-aboard accomodation -- not a folding boat, but it will make you think. Can you design a ~16 folding monohull boat with the front 8-foot half a sleeping cabin and the rear 8-foot half a cockpit? If you keep the boat narrow, try an outrigger and float meant *only* for set up at an anchorage to provide stable, safe sleeping conditions.

Once I saw a curious Coleman canoe with a "grizzled" man in it tied up at Mystic Seaport Museum. The canoe was stuffed with gear and decked over with tarp; sensing a good story, I rowed over to converse and learned he was paddling down the east coast from Maine to Maryland; he usually slept on shore, but if night caught him at sea, he unrolled his sleeping bag in the canoe and stabilized the canoe with a clip-on home-made outrigger and float made from aluminum tubes, Dow pink foam (I think), tarp, and duct tape (of course). Not my preference, but solutions exist!

See a few photos of my project at www.instructables.com, and search for :Wade Tarzia". -- wt

[bapou]

Hi Riptide and Wade,

in case you are still reading here, in the moment I'm working on a very similar design:

A sectional, very light boat which should be used river and lake travelling.(including sleeping on board and a small cabin from tent-material)

I choose a Classic 14, a 14foot whitehall design from Platt Monfort www.gaboats.com (http://www.gaboats.com) and adapted it to be sectional and more robust (by adding plywood at the bottom.)

It looks like it will row very good but it will be relativly unstable for sailing and sleeping. For sleeping I will maybe add a small outrigger as proposed by wade.

Here you see a photo of the empty hull, the (tent-like) cabin etc. and a rig + leeboard will be hopefully added this winter. Still have to think about the rig shape etc.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o246/bapoi/transport_lowres.jpg

I posted some more photos there:
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=54754

Best regards,

thom

[Lewisboats]

Why not something that has an open center section of about 7 ft with two ends that fold up and can be used to create a cabin type area when stood verticle. Add a canvas roof and you have nice enclosed sleeping area with about 4.5 ft of headroom even with a flat roof.
Pardon the second picture...just a quicky sketch done in Paint...but you get the picture. Folded the boat is just 7 ft long, extended it is 14.

Steve


http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Stuff/TriPieceFolder75.jpg

http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Stuff/SleepingQuarters.JPG

[htom]

Wouldn't that folded configuration have a very high center of gravity?

[Lewisboats]

Its a beach cruiser... you set it up when you beach for the evening.

Steve

[Steve Paskey]

Steve: Interesting idea, but if the center section is an open cockpit for sleeping, I'd want to store most of my gear in the ends, in watertight compartments. Wouldn't that make the arrangement impractical, if only because everything's going to shift and tumble when you lift the ends up for the night?

[Hwyl]

Your original premise would seem fairly easy, you want to end up with a foldable or nesting 16 foot by 4'6'" boat capable of supporting a decent tent.
I could have a go at the design after Christmas, email me at triatic at yahoo dot com

[Hwyl]

Of course the Mirror dinghy in this book would fit your parameters http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlikely-Voyage-Jack-Crow-Odyssey/dp/1574091522

[Lewisboats]

Steve: Interesting idea, but if the center section is an open cockpit for sleeping, I'd want to store most of my gear in the ends, in watertight compartments. Wouldn't that make the arrangement impractical, if only because everything's going to shift and tumble when you lift the ends up for the night?

After careful contemplation of your question...yes, I still think it could be done. Some planning would be necessary as the features would have to be designed in. For instance... your heavy stuff will be best served by being nearest the pivot point...stuff such as stove, fuel, foods etc. Lighter stuff would be towards the very ends...stuff like clothes, towels, etc. Designing built in drawers that are accessible when the ends are verticle, covered with a lightweight waterproof deck. The tent could be stored in the main compartment as...of course there would be enough room while rowing. Now the drawing is just that too, it could be extended to 19 feet long and still fit into the required space. This would give you a 9.5 ft center section which leaves storage space. The ends could still be used as storage too, using the same system. You could also enlarge the center section but keep the ends shorter...say 9.5 ft center with only 2.5-3 ft sections on the ends. It would cut down on overhead room but also shorten the overall length and lighten the boat a bit. Some fiddling with the rocker would probably be needed for interior verticle height from sole to sheer. Looking at the alternatives...a non folding or breakdown boat would max out at a hair less than 10 ft. Having the ends removable instead of foldable you would still have to have some kind of tent, only now you have to have a bunch of additional supports for the tent. Definately an option but I still like the folding version.

Steve

[Wade Tarzia]

Thom, a very nice boat indeed. Intuitively I think a "sleep outrigger" would be a nice idea, if I remember what it's like in a Whitehall. The skin-on-frame design sure solves a lot of weight problems though!