Smallest viable sleep-aboard beach cruiser? [Archive]

riptide

10-09-2006, 08:09 PM

The title pretty much says what I'm looking for -- what would you consider to be the smallest viable sleep-aboard beach cruiser, with the aim of gunkholding aboard for a month every summer?

A few parameters:

- Sailing first, with decent rowing ability, and no motor.
- Enough room to store the gear needed for a month, keeping in mind that folks thru-hike the Appalachian trail with no more than 3-4 cubic feet of stuff. (Assume that I can get more food and water along the way.)
- Lots of built-in buoyancy for safety.
- Preferably NOT stitch and glue construction.

I'd like to impose an arbitrary requirement that boat and trailer fit in a 10' x 15' storage unit, but if you think that's unrealistic, give me your best thoughts on the smallest boat that would be suitable. Thanks!

openboater

10-09-2006, 08:33 PM

the mayfly 14 with boom tent...

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/mayfly14/index.htm

openboater

10-09-2006, 08:39 PM

a mayfly being built. room to sleep in 8' cockpit

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/projects/mayfly14/index.htm

Woxbox

10-09-2006, 09:04 PM

Seems to me some foolhardy types years ago kept one-upping each other on the shortest boat to cross the Atlantic. I think the record stands at around 7'.
I know that's not what you want to know, but I couldn't help bring it up. Something about this forum does that to a person.
What do you mean by small? I guess that's my question.
You can lie down and sleep in a canoe, and many have spent months traveling in canoes, although usually pitching a tent to sleep.
I think the weight of the boat is the best measure of "small."
The other question is do you want or would you consider somthing with a cabin? Keeps stuff dry and the right design will be much safer.
Another big question here is how big a person are you? That's an important factor when you're trying to get down to the lower limit.
Another point that's equally important - waterline length improves sailing speed markedly when you get down under 20 feet.
I was eyeing the Caledonia yawls at the Mid-Atlantic small boat fest last weekend, and thought one of those would be ideal as on open beach cruiser. You could build in watertight compartments for dry stowage and safety. These are bigger than what you have in mind, but also much dryer and more comfortable and able to handle bigger seas safely.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/Woxbox/Caledonia.jpg

The smallest boat I've spent days in is an 18' "pocket cruiser" with a cabin. Where I sail, expecting to find a place to pitch a tent is not realistic, and I like a solid roof over my head at night. Having owned boats bigger and smaller than this, I never found the heavier 18' boat more work to trailer, set up and handle than the smaller, lighter ones.
One other thing on safety -- once you get to self-righting and/or self-rescuing designs, you've made a big leap forward in that department.
'Nuf rambling for now.

George Ray

10-09-2006, 09:16 PM

More Info: => http://www.shallowwatersailor.us/index.html

http://www.sailingtexas.com/picdovekieca.jpg

http://www.sailingtexas.com/picdovekiecb.jpg

http://www.sailingtexas.com/picdovekiecc.jpg

hikingchrs

10-09-2006, 09:35 PM

Wobox I got to ride on that very boat last month I was very impressed with its sailing we had 9 adults on it for a while.

mwybo

10-09-2006, 09:44 PM

From my own experience I would say that if you only have a month per year free and you want to sail you should buy a reasonable boat and go sailing. Building you own might just consume two or three of those one month free periods you have. Although it is a lot of fun and very satisfying if you want to go sailing/camping go sailing.

If you what you really want is to build a boat then that is another story.

Mike

Woxbox

10-09-2006, 09:54 PM

hikingchrs,
I used to think the Drascombe Lugger was the ideal beach boat - I was much taken by Webb Chiles' adventures across the Pacific and beyond. But that's a very heavy boat and not so friendly to row. I sailed one once - it likes some wind before it will get going.
The Caledonia seems to have similar potential in a much lighter package, given one was built with cruising in mind.

htom

10-09-2006, 11:59 PM

Atkin's Alone, if you're a normal sized person. http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Alone.html

Ocean Spray

10-10-2006, 04:59 AM

I'd consider the Navigator

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/navigator/index.htm

Check-out the Open Boat site for photos and videos of this and other great camping boats

http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/index01.html

pippo

10-10-2006, 06:21 AM

What about the Green Island 15?

http://www.headlandboats.com

riptide

10-10-2006, 07:21 AM

Atkin's Alone, if you're a normal sized person. http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Alone.html

What's normal? I'm 6-3, 220 pounds. I like Alone, but keep 'em coming.

Ron Carter

10-10-2006, 08:50 AM

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL1003/4980662/10229254/147032136.jpg

The rig and seating is not per Atkin but the hull is. Great little boat but too small for me to enjoy a month on the water in it.

Edit, you also have to be very careful when you link a picture if you don't know where you are going. Dial up is so slow this morning I'm not going to try to fix it. Wasn't the best picture anyway.

htom

10-10-2006, 09:04 AM

You're above average for a sailor (but smaller than I am!)

David123

10-10-2006, 09:07 AM

I know this is a wooden boat forum....but I've sailed on a West Wight Potter and they are a great little boat. The 15 footer has crossed the Atlantic. It's easy to sail, easy to set up and is beachable. Room inside for small portable head, sleeps two and affordable. Tows behind a 4 cyl car with no trouble. Launching is a breeze.

Consider it if you have no time to build.

riptide

10-10-2006, 09:29 AM

The rig and seating is not per Atkin but the hull is. Great little boat but too small for me to enjoy a month on the water in it.

Edit, you also have to be very careful when you link a picture if you don't know where you are going. Dial up is so slow this morning I'm not going to try to fix it. Wasn't the best picture anyway.

nice looking boat, Ron.

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL1003/4980662/10229254/147032136.jpg

Dan McCosh

10-10-2006, 10:31 AM

A friend sailed/paddled a 16 ft. kayak from Mt. Clemens, MI, to Florida. Slept on board most of the time while anchored with with a tent overhead. Another has a Dovkie, as well as another 14 ft. Bolger catboat he calls the Gena Rose. That has a full sleeping cabin as well. None of these are exactly spacious, however.

Keith Wilson

10-10-2006, 11:10 AM

Well, Derek Van Loan in California designed, built, and has cruised pretty extensively in an 8' cartoppable boat that two can sleep aboard. I wouldn't, but he seemed to like it, and he sells plans. Not for the claustrophobic. (The wheels come off for sailing.)
http://www.smallsailboats.co.uk/micro-sb/sleeper.htm

http://www.smallsailboats.co.uk/micro-sb/sleeper/sleeper1.jpg

The smallest boat I'd really want to sleep on would be like Phil Bolger's Birdwatcher. There was an article on the design in WB in July 2004. The long centerline opening makes the cabin actually comfortable for people over 3'6" tall. He also has a revised version, Birdwatcher II, with some improvements.

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Birdwatcher/

http://www.adirondackgoodboat.com/images/birdwatcher_sm.jpg

AngWood

10-10-2006, 11:46 AM

Keep in mind that prams/punts/garveys provide the most space per length. A nine-foot pram might have the interior volume of an eleven or twelve foot "pointy boat."

Thorne

10-10-2006, 11:52 AM

Keith -

LOL! I'd say you take the prize for the thread -- with no definition of "viable", that 8' Van Loan boat certainly fits the other requirements.

And the daggerboard placement would work well for a "bundling board" if teenagers of the opposite sex wanted to camp together - far better than the Olde English eqivalent of a naked sword blade between sleepers.

;0 )

Keith Wilson

10-10-2006, 12:23 PM

Yeah, isn't that an amazing boat? The board trunk is there all the time, and any sort of physical intimacy below decks would require contortions I don't even want to contemplate. It might be an interesting challenge for a couple that's young, thin, flexible, and horny. :D

IMHO, the berths are uncomfortably similar to coffins - and none too large coffins at that. There is a little window right by the sleeper's head, to watch the ripples right up close, no doubt.

openboater

10-10-2006, 12:34 PM

do you want to sleep under a tent, or in a cabin ?

do you want your stuff stored out in the open or in sealed lazarettes?

What are your building skills, tack and tape or ???

riptide

10-10-2006, 02:55 PM

Oh lord, I forgot about Sleeper. No way. If you look at the daggerboard the wrong way, it looks like it's BETWEEN the sleeper's legs.

As for the questions from "openboater" -- I'd prefer a tent to a cabin, with most of my stuff (but not sailing gear) in lazerettes. I would prefer simple construction (skiffs, prams, garveys and the like), in either real wood or plywood, but wouldn't rule out the possibility of using cedar strips to build a round-bilged pram or the like. Small carvel boats are beyond what I'm willing to attempt at the moment.

Angwood's comment about a 9-foot pram is something I might be willing to try. For instance, there's a 9-foot Atkin pram called FINKLE DINK. ( http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Dinks/FinkelDink.html ) Add watertight storage fore and aft, with floorboards that can be raised for sleeping. Why not? It would be a fun project, and no great loss in time and materials if it doesn't work out. If I try it and don't like it, I'll build something else.

BrianY

10-10-2006, 03:07 PM

Consider "Alaska" by Don Kurylko . I recall that it got a good review in WB mag Designs section some time ago (don't which issue though)

http://www.dhkurylko-yachtdesign.com/build.htm

ALASKA - a traditional 18' whitehall skiff designed specifically for beach cruising and extended voyaging under oar and sail. Self-sufficient and seaworthy, with large carrying capacity, onboard sleeping arrangement, boom tent, built-in floatation, dual bilge pumps, outboard auxiliary, wood-epoxy strip-plank construction, and more.

Of course, it won't fit into that storage space, but it sure sounds like it fits the bill otherwise

DerekW

10-10-2006, 03:14 PM

Jim Michalak's pram based, 'birdwatcher' cabined IMB (http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/imb2/index.htm) was pretty much designed for your purposes, but it is stitch and glue. It's eminently possible to adapt his smaller "Piccup pram (http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15oct05.htm)" with a similar glasshouse if you slouch when you sail :)

Keith Wilson

10-10-2006, 03:35 PM

Well, IMB is interesting; I expected someone would post a Michalak design eventually.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/imb/jerry%2Bimb.jpg

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/imb2/imb4.jpg

I could imagine actually being comfortable camping in that boat. Only problem is looks, although it may be a taste it's possible to acquire.

PVanderwaart

10-10-2006, 03:41 PM

I can't say that it's the smallest, but Bolger's Catfish is about the smallest that I would consider, and it was designed for camping. The keel would impede beaching, thougth.
http://www.instantboats.com/catfish.htm

riptide

10-10-2006, 03:44 PM

As long as we're throwing out boats with a birdwatcher-style cabin, there's Bolger's "Housemouse" (formerly "Super Mouse"), the scaled-up version of his "Fieldmouse" pram. 11-1/2 feet long, 6-1/2 feet wide. I like this much better than IMB. Sorry for the big picture, but it's the only one I could find:

http://www.hallman.org/bolger/supermouse/Supermouse.gif

JimD

10-10-2006, 05:02 PM

I realize Tropic Bird is too big but she's very rowable and real purdy. WB issue #163 has a good article on her showing including photos with the tent set up for camping:

http://www.maritimetrades.com/tropicbirds/Other/RowingWithLoad.jpg

http://www.maritimetrades.com/tropicbirds/Other/ReachingInYorkNarrows.jpg

John Bailey

10-10-2006, 05:08 PM

Riptide,

I had the same question. I am a sea kayak guide and instructor, and I wanted to be able to sail to some of my favourite places, most of which you couldn't get a keelboat into. I decided on an Oughtred Whilly Boat. Not the new Whilly Tern, but the Whilly Boat. I figured at 14'6"(I'm stretching it to 15') it was as small as I wanted to go. It reputes to row better than the Whilly Tern. I think that the ability to row well, when needed, will be of more benefit than a little less enthusiastic sailing ability because when sailing, I'm not going to be racing.

John

casem

10-10-2006, 05:18 PM

I can sleep in my Whilly Boat (15' Oughtred double ended open boat with sunken decks) overnight comfortably but I have to squeeze under the thwart. Some people might not be able/want to do this. I've toyed with the idea of working out a way to raise the floorboards to thwart/deck level but it seems too much trouble. If you thought about this ahead of time you might be able to use a reduced Caledona Yawl or maybe a Ness Boat or Ness Yawl.

I also have a boom tent but it is difficult to design one that covers the whole boat because there are no decks at the sheer. Mine would allow a lot of water on board if I was ever out in the rain with it up.

JimD

10-10-2006, 06:02 PM

have to squeeze under the thwart.

Why not a removable thwart?

casem

10-10-2006, 06:18 PM

I thought about that but in this type of construction the thwart is pretty critical I think. How would you fasten it if not glued? Screws would be the only way I can think to make the connection strong enough but you can't really unscrew and rescrew too much.

What would be really cool is to figure out some way to rig a hammock. But the tension is probably too much. Maybe you could figure out a way to use an oar or something to counteract it. You would raise your center of gravity a lot though.

casem

10-10-2006, 06:20 PM

Another problem is the centerboard. If you sleep on the floor you have to sleep on one side. You need some weight on the other side to counterbalance.

Bob Smalser

10-10-2006, 06:46 PM

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/59367496.jpg

The Hartley 14 has enough room for a comfortable weekend for two, with ready-made bunks on either side fo the CB trunk and lots of cockpit storage. A bit tight for extended bad weather in the cabin, although with a boom tent the side seats are long enuf.

With cabin, cockpit and large coamings, this is a much more comfortable boat in a sea than an open boat, capable of rougher weather.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075025/160355262.jpg

A bit beamy to be a comfy rowboat, although this one is set up to sweep. If I were to go engineless, I'd rig something on the stern to scull her with.

For a month, the larger Hartley 16 is very doable.

Thorne

10-10-2006, 07:18 PM

The fix for most small open boats is to use a series of thin boards laid the same height as the thwarts. Most dories have a rail / brace / support (forgot the nautical name) that runs along both sides of the boat to support the thwarts -- and these boards can placed across those rails.

If your boat doesn't have that rail, you could add one, or create temporary short braces for the thin planks to rest on. Foam pad over that and you've got a real, adjustable 'duck's bed'...

;0 )

It puts you rather high if the water is rough, but allows gear storage on the floorboards beneath the thwarts. Also works well when beached if the boat sits level.

peter osberg

10-13-2006, 11:06 PM

These are some great boats but how heavy a hull can you move off the beach when the tide is out, and how seaworthy a boat do you need to have to land on those beautiful sandy beaches (=surf). I figure that over 250-300lbs hull weight is the upper limit (excluding gear) even if you have low pressure wheels. I went for 23 ft freighter canoes that are self rescuable, seaworthy(wisely or unwisely they can be out in weather that keeps married couples ashore), and light enough. Some photos are on WCHA forums but that is another thread.

Jay Greer

10-14-2006, 12:23 AM

Outside of a double paddle canoe with an added rain tarp, my favorite beach cruiser is the Herreshoff "Meadow Lark". The boat is designed to use auxiliary power and, I have no objections to using an engine in a calm. The Boat will sail in fifteen inches of water and needs no tender since it can be run up on the beach. "Meadow Lark" is a very practical boat and has been built many times. They always seem to sell for a good price when the owner wants to upgrade or swallow the anchor.
JG

shamus

10-14-2006, 05:10 AM

Since no one has mentioned it, 'Houdini' would be my choice of a sleep aboard beach cruiser, but I shouldn't think she'd row too well. She'll carry an outboard easily though.

peterAustralia

10-14-2006, 09:25 PM

I will say my points and then dissapear.

I assume that you would like to beach your boat. Thus your boat will have to be relatively light and low draught. Max say = 150kg and ideal more of 100kg.

For safety large bouancy / storage compartments fore and aft.

Low draught for beaching means a dagger board or centerboard.

Removable wheels or rollers would assist in beaching.

As to beam, I would suggest more around 5ft than 6ft beam. A 5ft beam will be much much easier to row. Easier to bail out if swamped, capsized. Having the front 3ft and stern 2ft in separate watertight compartments will increase bouancy, reduce cockpit volume that can be swamped. At these sections a full height bulkhead up to gunnel level can be used.

The extra strength of these bulkeheads should allow for frames in the center of the boat to be lower, thus allowing for a lower level berth in the center of the boat.

The boat can be angled into your storage unit, both vertically and laterally, thus it can be longer than 15ft and still fit in your storage container!

A traditional hullform rather than a punt is liklely to handle better in rough weather.

Having stated the criteria here are some examples.

john welsords Walkabout 16ft x 5ft
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/index.htm

Swampscott Dion dory, do a goodle search 17ft x 5ft

any 17ft swampscott dory.

A 16ft x 5ft or 15ft x 5ft sailing dingy even if is a design that is many many years old.

reagrds,
n peter evans

hansp77

10-15-2006, 01:12 AM

When I was looking for tenders to buy, and was reasearching different options I found this guy http://www.btinternet.com/~sail/mirror.htm
who cruised in a 10ft+ mirror dinghy.
I post it just for interest.
http://www.btinternet.com/~sail/mirror01.jpghttp://www.btinternet.com/~sail/mirror02.jpghttp://www.btinternet.com/~sail/mirror03.jpg

I would be wanting a bit more boat than that personally, but where there is a will...

Meerkat

10-15-2006, 03:57 AM

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/profile.gif

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/sleeper600.gif
Purpose designed for exactly what you're looking for.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/walkabout/index.htm

peterAustralia

10-15-2006, 06:30 AM

Jim Michalak has several designs that would be suitable.

I would suggest central cabin / cockpit / tent is way to go with storage/bouancy fore and aft. Yes a bow transom means more boat for your 15ft lenght.

here is a list of his designs

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/michalak.htm

deansbox, family skiff, fatcat 2, ladybug, vector and others being suitable. I would like to reinforce that a beam of 5ft is a good compromise between rowing performance and stability/tent size.

If you are stuck in a cove for a few days then a larger complicated tent would be useful. An 8ft x 5ft floor of your tent would be useful (the bottom of the boat).

If the area where you are sailing is likely to be rough and surf is an issue then a more classic design would be better, this will tend to have a more flared hull and a narrower stern.

regards,
n peter evans

Steve Paskey

10-15-2006, 08:50 AM

Hey Riptide: I might have just the thing for you. I've been lurking to see where the discussion goes, but I guess it's time to speak up.

I commissioned "Walkabout" (see above) several years ago, but never built one for reasons too complicated to explain. I've recently commissioned a second boat, this one from Paul Fisher.

The design is a variation on one of Paul's existing hulls, the Skylark 14.
http://www.selway-fisher.com/GPDinghyover13.htm#KYL

The Skylark 14 is a 14-foot pram with a five foot beam, and three planks per side. I have the stock drawings and she's an attractive design for a pram, much more so than you can see on Paul's web site.

At my request, Paul will redo the rig and interior along the lines of Jim Michalak's "Deansbox," with watertight compartments fore and aft and a sitting/sleeping space down the middle. She'll probably have a leeboard to keep the cockpit clear (but I haven't ruled out an off-center centerboard), and the rig will be a cat yawl with a balanced lug main.

I liked the general idea of Deansbox, but wanted a multi-chined hull, and Skylark seemed a good place to start. The 14-foot length was an added bonus. (I might start building in the living room over the winter.) With the rounded sides, the Skylark 14 will be more attractive than Deansbox, and she should also be both more able and easier to row.

I believe that Paul will be starting on this within the next couple of weeks. I'll post further details when I have them.

peterAustralia

10-15-2006, 07:07 PM

Excellent concept this,

getting close to the ideal. Looks a bit simpler than the walkabout. The bow transom reduces length overall which is an issue in this case.

I am building an Otter 16 from boatplans-online. It also uses the 5 panel hullshape.

n peter evans

Dave Williams

10-15-2006, 08:04 PM

Noone has mentioned John Welsford's "Tread Lightly" design. If we are truly talking about small cruising designs, this one fills that bill. Depending on your home waters of course but I suspect for her size she would be quite capable. I have been smitten by her even being a bigger boat kind of guy. Just a thought.

To kindness,
Dave

Just a

JimD

10-16-2006, 05:44 AM

Some of these suggestions don't look very rowable.

Dave Hadfield

10-16-2006, 12:23 PM

Yes, that's just it. If you're planning to row, the boat has to be light. Very light.

Really, if you actually want to row more than a few yards at a time (more than just in and out of the cove) you want an undecked hull with a boom tent.

Put in a kicker and everything changes -- you can consider decked boats with small cabins.

Your decision.

johngsandusky

10-16-2006, 02:47 PM

I'm not sure I agree with light weight as a requirement of a good rowboat. If heavy, she's a bit harder to get going, but carries her way better. I don't feel that a 200 lb boat is noticeably harder to row than a 50lb one.. I've never rowed all day, but I've rowed a couple of dories, a peapod, a multichine plywood boat, a one ton sloop and a 4 ton yawl. The big boats go slowly, but you don't work up a sweat. I think in any boat that can be dragged, shape matters more than weight, once afloat.

JimD

10-16-2006, 03:51 PM

Beam and freeboard do not help the cause of rowing, either. And many of the small camp cruisers are designed with plenty of both to maximize volume. I have one of them, a Glen-L Minuet, only 15 feet long but a very poor candidate for rowing. I looked at installing oar locks and decided not to. Looking at some designs ask yourself where would you put the oar locks, where would you sit, what kind of contortionist would the rower have to be to get the blades in the water and make a decent stroke, etc? You need something relatively narrow and close to the water if you really want to row it anywhere.

Thorne

10-16-2006, 04:30 PM

I find that I can row small sailboats if I drop the centerboard a bit, and maybe even drag the rudder if it is windy. But it is never much fun...

A pulling boat rigged for sail is quite different, but that's not what was specified in the start of this thread.

ahp

10-16-2006, 04:44 PM

I will give you two data points. I friend of mine cruised the coast of Nova Scota with his wife in an O'Day Daysailor, 17 ft LOA with a little cuddy that you can't really sleep in except in a fetal position.

My dad beachcruised the north shore of Long Island in a 21 ft open Swampscot sailing dory. I don't think you could do that today.

JimD

10-16-2006, 06:25 PM

John Welsford's Rogue:

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/projects/parker/dscf0042.jpg

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/projects/parker/dscf0044.jpg

ROGUE
by John Welsford
L.O.A. 4.45m 14ft 7in
BEAM. 1.36m 4ft 5in
WEIGHT 80kg 176Ibs
SAIL AREA 11 m2 118.5 ft 2

riptide

10-16-2006, 08:00 PM

Thanks for all the great comments. I just got back from a couple of days out of town, and haven't been able to digest it all.

Some of the boats suggested are definitely bigger than I have in mind. I don't want to row all day, but would like to be able to row a few miles without busting my boiler.

Steve: The Skylark 14 looks like an interesting concept, but I'm not keen on stitch and glue. (I've built a CLC kayak, and would like something different.) Maybe it could be adapted to lapstrake ply?

PeterAustralia: I appreciate your comments about size, weight, and hullform. I think you're right on all counts, but I might be willing to compromise on the hull form for the sake of simplicity.

My big problem is that I haven't done this before and don't know for sure what I'd be comfortable with for a month. I think I'm more comfortable with severely spartan arrangements than most, but don't know how that will translate into a boat.

Seems like it would make sense to build something simple and try things out. I'm going to sleep on it for now.

JimD

10-16-2006, 10:26 PM

I wonder how often people really sleep in these little boats. If the shoreline is hospitable enough to beach a boat why not just camp on land most of the time and sleep in the boat as little as possible?

Woxbox

10-16-2006, 10:35 PM

The East Coast of these great United States is packed pretty tight with folks who paid $1,000 a foot and up for their shorefront properties, and most don't want to share. Even the parks don't let you camp if there's no official campground. I'm boating down around the Chesapeake Bay more than anywhere else, and I don't see how a person could camp cruise with stops every 15-25 miles down there. It's all either too swampy or "keep off my grass!"

skuthorp

10-16-2006, 10:44 PM

What a great thread! I sleep on board my Macgreggor, it fulfils the spec mostly and a great camping boat in sheltered waters. I row it too, glides well and surprisingly little windage. But I don't really recommend it, a bit too narrow and I'd like some shelter for serious stuff. It's great for shallow water and quick but I'm rather nervous in a sleeping bag as it is a little too tender for complete peace of mind.

tossedman

10-16-2006, 11:32 PM

Oar and Sail by Ken Leighton. Oar & Sail is Leighton's account of his 859-kilometre adventure averaging two knots per hour.

http://www.creekstonepress.com/oar.html

He rowed and sailed the Morag Anne. Fourteen feet from bow to stern, she was a scaled-down model of the boat that Captain William Bligh, master of the Bounty, commandeered 5,800 kilometres. Built of cedar, she was fitted with a collapsible awning Leighton could sleep under, and a single mast and sail.

A light read, entertaining, might give some insights as to what you want to do, or want not to do for that matter.

Todd

Bob Adams

10-17-2006, 12:02 AM

JimD

10-17-2006, 03:12 AM

Gives me new appreciation for where I live adjacent to our Gulf Islands. There is considerable private property but there are also many campsites and parks for boaters, usually government run at minimal cost. A near perfect area for camp cruising.

katiedobe

10-17-2006, 09:19 AM

I have the perfect boat for you to come down and test. Come down for a visit this winter to escape the cold up north and you can take my "junkett 17" out for a sail. It is designed by Ken Monday from Corvallis Oregon. His requirements when he set out to design the boat was the following: Able to sleep two adults on full length berths, place for a porta potty, room for a cooler of food, positive flotation, large cockpit, sitting room upright in the cabin, 1foot of draft, no center board, simple ply and construction, (not stitch and glue) able to be towed by a small mini van and fit inside a standard suburban garage with mast stored horizontally on the boat. He did it. I need to upload a better photo to imagestation and then I can post it here. I love my boat (don't we all), it handles a stiff breeze well, moves at 5 knots in 10mph winds, stable in heavy puffs. I use a 2hp honda as a kicker. I love the part about the 1 foot of draft. Lots of shallow shorelines around here that I can sail to that others cannot. I also have 350lbs of ballast in the form of steel plates bolted to the sides of the 12" tall full length keel.
Seriously if you are interested you could come down to Bacalar, Mexico and take my boat out for a week and watch the tarpon, shorebirds, alligators, and even Tapirs. Just send me a PM.
Bacalar is only 4 hours south of Cancun and there are great 1st class busses that take you here for only 20 dollars. Bus travel in Mexico is inexpensive, safe, clean and efficient. It one of the things they could teach the USA.

Lewisboats

10-17-2006, 09:44 AM

Cancun is definately on my to do list...I just might take you up on that...in a few years...:( How easy is it for Gringos to move down there?

Steve

katiedobe

10-19-2006, 08:13 AM

Easy. Send me a PM and we can talk all about it. I researched it a lot, every aspect of it in fact. Buying, running a business, just renting houses, closest hospital. The only thing I did not count on that I just assumed would be readily available is boatbuilding epoxy.
Here is a link to a few photos of the area that I live in.
http://www.bacalarmosaico.com/pages/activities/lake_pictures/index.htm

Murray Campbell

10-22-2006, 09:06 PM

how about a san francisco pelican?? i've never sailed one but they look fun..

http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/

ian kirk

04-20-2007, 12:11 AM

peter,do you know of any built in oz?im in moreton bay and thinking of building one kirkyJim Michalak has several designs that would be suitable.

I would suggest central cabin / cockpit / tent is way to go with storage/bouancy fore and aft. Yes a bow transom means more boat for your 15ft lenght.

here is a list of his designs

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/michalak.htm

deansbox, family skiff, fatcat 2, ladybug, vector and others being suitable. I would like to reinforce that a beam of 5ft is a good compromise between rowing performance and stability/tent size.

If you are stuck in a cove for a few days then a larger complicated tent would be useful. An 8ft x 5ft floor of your tent would be useful (the bottom of the boat).

If the area where you are sailing is likely to be rough and surf is an issue then a more classic design would be better, this will tend to have a more flared hull and a narrower stern.

regards,
n peter evans

paladin

04-20-2007, 09:15 AM

I was going to suggest a Pelican......I gave one to one of my sons when he got married and they have "camped" all around San Francisco Bay and beyond with it....
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p52afc7d62891084b3f7198f343e5c549/e9d5eb24.jpg

it's 12 feet.....the Great Pelican is 16 feet with a cabin......
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p47d2a84ed4062fd01cc549a1b23ff97b/e9d5eb23.jpg

and either can be modicfied with either lap or strip planked topsides....

Sailman58

04-20-2007, 12:57 PM

Check out some of Matt Layden's boats. Paradox is in the 13-14 foot range and he has made multiple trips over to the Bahamas in this boat. He entered an 8 foot boat in this year's Watertribe Challenge and finished successfully. Last year he entered a 12 footer (Enigma) in the Ultimate Florida Challenge which is a 30 day circumnavigetion of the state with a 40 mile portage from the headwaters of the Saint Marys River to the headwaters of the Swanee River. Matt only uses sails and paddles or a yulo for propulsion.

Ron

Tristan

04-20-2007, 01:36 PM

Always thought the Pelican would be a nice weekender.

donald branscom

04-20-2007, 01:52 PM

George Roberts

04-20-2007, 02:14 PM

I used to be able to sleep in a 17' kayak.

Without knowing the conditions that one is expecting to encounter it is difficult to know if any of the boats mentioned are suitable.

paladin

04-20-2007, 02:44 PM

In the post above by Donald Branscom......I can definitely tell you that the float pictured has more room than a 1 person liferaft in an aircraft ditching situation and it's possible to sleep and live in it for a couple of days...

garland reese

04-20-2007, 03:06 PM

Yep, and the one Donald posted seems to even come with a "six pack" (nice abs).

Seriously, I think Welsfords little "Tread Lightly" design seems to fit well when you read the design brief. Small enough to row, has a small but tolerable cabin area, floatation, a fair margin of safety for the type, and Welsford's designs are reputed to be quite well thought and capable.

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/treadlightly/index.htm

MarkC

04-20-2007, 04:08 PM

I second 'Tread Lightly' - because this was exactly what it was designed for - the smallest cruising sleep-aboard possible.

Here is a link to duckworks and Bob Trygg's completed version - which he modified to row:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/projects/gizmo/index.htm

scroll down to the bottom of the link for photos. At 13 foot - it is a big-bodied-boat, Garland is correct to say it has a 'fair margin of safety for the type'.

The link http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans...htly/index.htm has a picture of how John Welsford intended someone could lie-down in the cabin.

My second choice would be 'Paradox' - on the Micro Cruising web site - rowing?? maybeeee but worth a look.

Both of these boats were designed as the 'smallest possible sleep-aboard cruisers'.

Nicholas Scheuer

04-20-2007, 07:03 PM

I'd second George Ray's suggestion.

Anything smaller won't carry all the stuff you'd want for a month-long trip. Even at that, you'll have to pack light.

Moby Nick

Nicholas Scheuer

04-20-2007, 07:05 PM

We never ever felt the need for a motor in our beloved PILGRIM PELICAN. I did learn how to row and scull rather well. I could scull the boat fore, aft, as well as abeam. Even an Evinrude can't do that.

Moby Nick

kenjamin

04-20-2007, 09:10 PM

If you're dead set on going really small then Tread Lightly. If you only get to build a boat every fifteen years or so then Walkabout – more room for stuff, more comfortable, rows better, more versatile, and you could take a friend if you wanted someday. Building a really small boat is only economical if you never get tried of its slow pace and end up building something faster. One boat is cheaper than two.

Tom Hunter

04-20-2007, 10:33 PM

I am a lover of speed in small sailing and rowing boats. If you want to see why, get a chart and a and dividers. Check how far out and back you can go in 6 hours with a 3 knot boat, and then check again if you have a 5 knot boat.

I realize your other considerations are important, and I am not arguing with them, I just think speed is worth considering in the mix.

Good luck with what ever you choose.

brian.cunningham

04-20-2007, 10:39 PM

How much of a survivorist are you?
http://www.foldingkayaks.org/Lindeman.jpg

chrisk

04-21-2007, 03:11 AM

Andrew Craig-Bennett

04-21-2007, 06:42 AM

In Britain, the choice is almost automatic; if there are two of you, it's a Wayfarer (16ft double chine 3/4 decked bermuda sloop rigged centreboard dinghy) or of there's one of you it's a Wanderer (14ft more recent design along much the same lines).

Both would meet the requirements, and both have really rather a good performance under sail (the Wayfarer is also the standard sailing school starter dinghy as it will take two and an instructor).

It's most important to remember that a sailing dinghy needs the weight of the crew for ballast if she's going to do any good under sail.

Some of the designs shown seem likely to have inadequate sailing performance for pleasure and safety in coastal cruising.

My two pennyworth, applying to any of the candidates:

1. It's nice to be able to turn over in your sleeping bag; i.e. the thwart(s) should be removable.

2. It's much easier and more fun, in tidal areas, to sleep on board with the boat at anchor rather than to go to the very considerable trouble of (a) finding a beach that (b) is not private and (c) hauling the boat and gear up it and (d) down it again.

2.

sharpie

04-21-2007, 08:02 AM

One might want to look into B&B's Bay River Skiff. A forumite here has good things to say about the boat's sailing ability. See the link below:
http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/brs.htm

Lewisboats

04-21-2007, 10:32 AM

I'm currently working on my own design (building it that is) for a one person cruiser. Here is a pic of the linesplan (sorta...its a bit rough). It runs 11.5 ft long and a bit over 4 ft wide. I just bought the wood for the mast. The hull is stitched, filleted and taped on the inside and ready for taping on the outside. I was hoping to get it into the water this summer but I don't think that will happen...but maybe this fall.

http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Stuff/GuppyII_Linesplan.JPG

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Images/GuppyII/images/Transomntempgunnel.JPG

earling2

04-25-2007, 03:24 PM

Phil bolger has a bunch of good beach cruisers.
Off the top of my head, on that always looked really cool to me is Japanese Beach Cruiser. It's in Boats With an Open Mind. That's a mulichine pram 12.5 feet long that packs a lot in small place and is very well thought out.
The other one that comes to mind is his Felucca, which is in 30 Odd Boats, around 16 feet.
Then there's my favorite, inspired by Herreshoff's Coquina, Bolger's Prince William Sound Yawl. 16', cold molded. I've seen pictures of that boat and it's a stunner. (also in 30 Odd Boats). That one I would love to build "one day" ... cold molded and according to mr. B., not cheap to build. But what a thing you would have.
This doesn't include of course Dovekie (already mentioned)
How about the Compac 16? They look pretty capable.