Heart Pine Planking Stock

[Ethan]

For anyone who's interested....

WB ran a short article in the Around the Yards section in the current issue about Sinkola Farms in Thomasville, GA. The phone # in the article is wrong. A Google search for them will give you their page with correct contact info.

I spoke with their sawmill manager today - seemed like a nice guy and was very willing to answer my questions. He said they have stock with anywhere from 6 rings per inch to 18 rings per inch. Mostly 16 foot lengths, but up to 60-70 feet at times. I'd like to stress how willing they seem to work with customers to ensure you get what you're after.

And now for the usual: I have no financial or business connection with these folks. Although after what I heard today, I'll probably be a customer at some point.

[Paul Pless]

Heart Pine

I'm seeing more and more of this supposedly extinct resource available in Central Alabama recently. It comes from many sources, anything from virgin old growth and second growth, to urban sawyers, and both refloated logs and reclaimed lumber from old mills and gins and such.

[Ethan]

yeah, you're right about that Paul.

Sinkola has an interesting story behind their sawing activities. Let's just say that they're not the "cut 'em all down" type!:D

[bugeye]

Hi Ethan,
I saw that in WB and have been meaning to call them to get an idea of what they're up to. Did you get an idea of pricing? Also, does he have trucking connections, or do you have to set that up yourself? I bought some "longleaf" a few years ago, which I suspect is actually slash based on the smell, from a guy in NC. At over $3 bf plus trucking, I wasn't entirely happy with the deal. Supposedly there's a fair bit of old growth pine in Thomasville, but at the ring counts you mentioned, that's not it. I'm kind of relieved to hear that someone's not trying to make their retirement selling off their piece of very scarce old growth forest. I talked to Robb White about his management of his old woods a long time ago, and was really impressed by his forestry ethics and principals. Anyone who has any interest at all in this stuff simply must read "Looking for Longleaf". I can't recall the author's name, but WB had a review on it a few years ago, written by Robb White.

[Ethan]

Hey bugeye, pricing quoted to me was $3-4/bf, depending on grade, ring count, etc. As for shipping, I'm not sure. You don't consider 18 rpi to be old growth? My understanding is that anything with 6 rpi or greater is considered antique pine. Am I mistaken?

[Bob Smalser]

You don't consider 18 rpi to be old growth?

There's no hard standard for this except the amount of shade the tree grew in. Even old-growth forests have trees that get full sun with low ring counts, and even non-commercial second-growth forests have plenty of old-growth leftovers with high or mixed ring counts.

Plantation wood will have 3-4 rings per inch, harvested at 40 years.

Good second-growth from a non-commercial forest will have 6-12 rpi and up, and the old-growth leftovers often with mixed ring counts of 6-30rpi in the same log.

Old-growth logs also vary, but in the range of 12-35 rpi.

Frankly, I think ring count is over-rated. The strength and execrative content differences between middling ring count wood of 8-12rpi and the most costly 20-35rpi stock is marginal. What you have to be careful of in southern pine is that none of those species develop heartwood before 20 years of growth, and once the sawyer boxes out the heart for a 4X4 or 6X6, run-of-the-mill stock from young and low-ring count trees will be mostly sapwood, regardless of how it smells.

I suspect some of this current "old-growth" stock being sold is hurricane salvage....and how long it lay on the ground before being milled may be a negative factor in boats. It certainly was for our local Mt St Helens salvage harvested as long as a decade after it fell.....it rotted early.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=5075

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075040/52135894.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075040/52135880.jpg

[Ethan]

Interesting - thanks Bob, I learned a few things from that explanation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of pine still in the log, heartwood and sapwood are discernible when looking at the cross section of the bole, right? One very good thing I heard when I talked to these guys was "come look over our shoulder while we mill your stock and pick which boards you want". As a consumer, I like that approach.

[Bob Smalser]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of pine still in the log, heartwood and sapwood are discernible when looking at the cross section of the bole, right?

Yes, but depends on how fresh the cut is...the log in my top pic was bucked several weeks before and has oxidized sufficiently to make sapwood ID from the log end difficult. The log below is was bucked only a few days before and the heartwood color is distinct. Both logs would have identical pink heartwood color when fresh.

With southern pine when unsure, count 20 rings in from the cambium and you have the first heartwood. In a 40-year-old plantation tree of 3rpi, that's around 13" of log diameter that is sapwood. Take out another 4" for the boxed heart and that leaves only around 9" of the log diameter that is heartwood suitable for boats.

[bugeye]

Hey Ethan,
Thanks for your research. If I were to guess based on what you've said, this wood is not from a virgin forest but what grew back after a clearcut . I'm not saying that that is necessarily bad stuff, just not the holy grail. I'm now working on a framing and planking job on a smallish schooner built in the 40's. She was built entirely of longleaf with the exception of her double-sawn oak frames. In what I've torn out, the only stuff that would be less than 16 rpi is what is very close to the pith. Then we're talking 6-8. Most of it I would say is upward of 20. It breaks my heart to cut this stuff out, but there's no other way. Except where a bad frame has infected it, it's all hard and sticky with resin and smells like heaven when cut.

That's a good sign when the sawyer is willing to have you there while cutting. I bought white oak in Md, at a big commercial mill that was willing to let me do this, and for $1 bf. Most places make you pick out logs that you like, and then they're yours, no matter what surprises lurk inside. The time I've spent with sawyers has been very enlightening, and a very good use of time. In fact I'm off to cut some nice cedar today. Thanks again for looking into this. If you do go to the mill and get some pine, please fill us in.

[Bob Smalser]

A couple of tips if you have to buy the whole softwood log:

Dead straight and shake-free are more important than ring count.

Plus symmetrical growth rings like in my pic below means the tree grew in even sun on flat ground and is unlikely to have reaction wood.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3223936/39972458.jpg

See the wind shakes oozing pitch? Each one of those costs you 10bf in cutarounds and defect. And they'd be real common in hurricane salvage, because those trees were probably exposed to severe winds long before the one that blew them down. They're also the most common in that clear lower log you prefer.

Plus the growth ring symmetry tell you this log will produce perfectly straight boards.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3223936/39522701.jpg

See the off color heartwood? That's disease....avoid it. The wood may be fine...or it may not.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3223936/39522559.jpg

See the off center pith? Could mean the tree grew on a hillside or was exposed to wind from only one direction. It may or may not have reaction wood in it that causes board warp regardless of how straight it is milled. Not as desirable as perfect symmetry but not a show-stopper either...just greater risk for problems.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3223936/39522570.jpg

Is the lowest log the best one? Not always. Sure, it's clear....but it also has much greater taper, so boards from it will often have greater grain runout. In windy areas the lower log will have more wind shakes than the one above it. And if the tree was harvested close to an old house site (lots of old farms gave way to forest later) then the lower log is the one most likely to contain hardware. If the log end has iron stain seeping out of it....avoid it.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4110272/51164668.jpg

Last, the greater the ring count, the more likely you'll lose board feet to defect....and not all defects can be seen from the log end, there are often surprises. Old-growth trees have simply been more subject to the various problems that cause defect because they've been standing longer. In the worst logs, two boards out of four become either battens or firewood.