ring nail removal

[chergui]

Ok, so I hung my third plank last night and drilled a hole into the transom for a ring nail, which I'm using as fasteners on the two transoms. I guess it wasn't deep enough because I couldn't drive it in all the way. I tried getting it out but I'm sure I would have ripped the head off. So, with a whack of the hammer I pounded it into the plank bending it over sideways. Not exactly pretty. I can fill the hole with epoxy and cover it up.

What is the best thing to do in this case, try pulling it out, cut the extended end off with nail cutters and put a new one in beside it, or just pound it in sideways like I did. It sounds awful I know, but this is my first boat and I'm starting to realize it just isn't going to be perfect if I'm ever going to finish it.

[reddog]

Hi;
In my experience with "Anchorfast" ring nails the heads will nearly always come off when you attempt to extract them.If the pilot hole isn't deep enough the nail will bottom out and then bend if you try to drive it further, as you found out.If bottomed out I would first try and pull the nail.You may get lucky and it will back out.If the head pulls off you could try to grab the shank with Vice Grips and pull it that way or nip it off close to the plank surface,set the remaining shank and redrill for another nail.If your transoms are a hardwood such as mahogany it is really important to get the pilot hole depth and diameter correct as these nails are unforgiving.
Good luck.

Earl

Oh and one more tidbit.Once you start to drive the nail in place don't stop,drive it all the way as it will likely bend if you stop and try to finish up later.

[Thorne]

Can't really say as I avoid ring nails like the plague for exactly that reason -- they aren't really removable and I make too many mistakes to use something that permanent.

Screws are the **only** single (no bolt or bend) fasteners I will use. Otherwise I use copper rove rivets or carriage bolts and other threaded fasteners that take washers and nuts.

Cleanest method might be to take a Dremmel (or clone) and grind off the head (or drill out the center of the head), then try to drive the shaft of the ring nail in with a punch.

[reddog]

Thorne;
The Dremmel tool is a good idea.I agree with your observations about using ring nails but they may be the only option for thin planking where you can't countersink a screw.Ring nails are a real pain on repair jobs especially where you are trying to save pieces.

Earl

[Rob Hazard]

One other idea for ring-nail removal. Find a roll-pin of a size that will just fit around the nail shank. Take a three-square file and turn the end of the pin into a tiny crude hole-saw. Then, after snapping the head off the nail, drill down around it until it comes free. Then fill the hole with a peg or some epoxy.
Maybe I learned this trick in the Magazine. I have used it on sheared-off drywall screws.

Good luck!

[Bob Smalser]

The bronze ring nails I use cut OK with tailed woodworking tools....countersink the nail using a Forstner bit and install a bung.

Do one on the other side for a match that looks like it was supposed to be that way. ;)

[Jay Greer]

As others have mentioned, cutting the head off and attempting to drive the shank in further will do the least cosmetic damage to the wood. Personaly, I have a prefrence for repairing any, 'wood lunches", with epoxy and micro balloons. If you are doing a bright finish, then removing the offending fastening may be all that you can do. I often do the trick of using thin walled tubing that will fit over the head or shank of the fastening. Of course the tube is filed as to have saw teeth. This way you will have less disruption of the wood than if you used a thicker roll pin to make your custom hole saw. Then using a slide hammer with a clamping head, the fastening can be pulled, the hole pegged and refastened.
JG

[Frederick Bolton]

Chergui,

I had a similar problem years ago on a job where we were nailing a trim into southern yellow pine that had cured more than we thought. Quite hard to be exact. The pilot holes were to small and the nails would not drive all the way in. Several got stuck about two thirds of the way in. Tried pulling them and all we accomplished was tearing up wood. Finally got the idea to cut the heads off, grabbed them with vice grips and rotated them one turn to loosen them a little, then chucked them up in a 1/4 inch drill motor and spun them while pulling. Worked great. The only problem is it enlarges the hole, but that will happen anyway no matter how you remove it. Sounds like yours is already bent over so this option may not work.

I am like Thorn, I hate ring nails unless I know that the object being built isn't going to need any repair in my lifetime.

Good luck.

[LLaver]

Another suggestion which may not be the prettiest is to cut the head off and "clench" the remaining shaft of the nail over. as I said not pretty but it will be strong.

Lee

[Bill Lowe]

Jamestown Supply has toothed rolled pins called Unscrewms they cut in reverse. They work pretty well on screws and would at least cut arround a nail so it can be removed.

[DRB]

I have built a couple of boats useing bronze ring nails and I think it would be very unlikely to do a whole boat with out having at least a few of these bend over on you. If the peice of wood you are driveing it into has exceptionaly hard grain it will help to go up on your pilot whole one size. When I have one bend over on me I will cut it off as close to the plank as I can and then hammer it flush to the plank. I then drill a new pilot whole right next to it (one size bigger this time) and drive a new nail. The head of the new nail will cover up the old one and nobody will ever know if you dont tell them. Ring nails are much less expensive than screws and have superior holding power on thin planking (try doing some test joints and breaking them for comparison) and once I started useing this fix method I quit stressing out over bending one occasionally.

[Bill Perkins]

Chergui ; When I feel a ringshank nail stop driving I switch gears ,hitting it not harder but softer ; quick light taps carefully centered on the nail . Progress is barely perceptible .If nothing's happening after about 20 seconds ya gotta hit it harder , gradually turning up the juice until you either drive the nail or bend it . I've even been able to straighten a slightly bent nail and drive it home this way .Your pilot hole may have been too shallow (?), or maybe you drilled through a hidden hard spot .

[seo]

I've had okay luck with grabbing the head with vice grips and rotating it back and forth, little more each time, until you get a full turn, then keep twisting and pull back on the mother.
If they don't break off right away, they'll probably come. If they break off, with luck they'll do it below the surface, and you can just pretend they're not there.
For a while I'd snip off the head, then drill a 1/16" hole right next to the nail. This did ease the hole up a lot, but there were two problems: a) You now need to have several more tools at hand, and b) a broken off drill bit cannot just be left in there. They rust like crazy.
Aside from that, I persuaded myself that the critical issue is to not let it sit in the hole for more than a few seconds. Have the Vice-Grips (accept no substitutes! If it doesn't say Vice-Grip, it's not as good.) in your pocket, and dont waste time with wailing, gnashing, or snipping heads off. Out with the Grips, grab the shank low down, and start wiggling. Above I read the trick of using a drill once the shank was freely rotating. I haven't tried that, but it seems perfectly reasonable.