Indoor air tools, combo kits..

[Donn]

I'm looking for a reasonably good indoor use compressor/tools combo kit.

Uses will include trim, molding, paneling and small crafts.

Porter-Cable and Bostich each sell a kit including a 6 gallon, 2HP compressor, with a finish nailer (16G 2.5"), brad nailer (18G 1.25") and 1/4" crown stapler (18G, 1"). Hose, etc all included.

They run just under $300.

Are these sufficient?

Can these compressors drive framing and roofing nailers?

Should I be looking at higher ticket ala carte systems?

[Rick Starr]

I dunno bout kits. I DO know that what a compressor says on the plate vs what it actually does can differ widely. I also know that almost any compressor will drive a framing nailer, but the recycle time will be the limiting factor. If the poor thing has to exceed its duty cycle to feed the nailer it won't last long.

I DO have experience with paslode, senco and their offshoot accuset, and it's all been good. ONce you've used a dynabrade palm r/o sander you'll fall in love with it.

Do your own cost/ben analysis, but I've found that for my use (and I've known others who agree) that the larger the compressor, the better PARTICULARLY (and this will seem counterintuitive) for the sporadic user. By larger I mean one that a) doesn't have ANY potmetal components), b) has a non-integral motor (has belt drive) and c) uses nothing proprietary, so that a tank, valving, motor or compressor head can be replaced easily and cheaply as needed.

If you have a whiny hotdog compressor as I did for so long it'll get used to air up a tire now and then, but you won't be inclined to use it for much else. If you have a larger one that can drive an impact wrench, say, being one of the larger demand items, you'll find all sorts of uses for the thing. There is a peculiar delight in changing a tire or driving a lag screw or setting concrete anchors with an impact wrench. This delight is amplified if there are neighbors within earshot, for some reason.

Good luck.

[Paul Girouard]

I'm looking for a reasonably good indoor use compressor/tools combo kit.

Uses will include trim, molding, paneling and small crafts.

Porter-Cable and Bostich each sell a kit including a 6 gallon, 2HP compressor, with a finish nailer (16G 2.5"), brad nailer (18G 1.25") and 1/4" crown stapler (18G, 1"). Hose, etc all included.

They run just under $300.

Are these sufficient?

Can these compressors drive framing and roofing nailers?

Should I be looking at higher ticket ala carte systems?



They should be.

Yes , if they put out 4 SCFM or more . HP ,& Gal. , are not the "key" , SCFM is, bigger guns use more air. The big guns use more air/ SCFM , the big guns will generally work , the compressor will just run more often to keep up the press/ SCFM up . Remember hose is also tank / air storage , bigger tank = less frequent compressor running noise.

If there not enought air the big gun "driver / pin " will not retract so you'll need to let the compressor "catch up " , refire / dry fire the gun so it resets the driver pin , so with a under SCMF compressor you'll need to wait for it to catch up before firing again. Some times not a big deal / price to pay, over a bigger , read $$ , compressor if bigger gun use is only once in awhile.

I would think either set up would do all a home owner or contractor would want out of the tools sold with the compressor.

And as far as the brand guns , that is a personnal choice / preference , one guy will swear by the same gun the other guy will swear at:rolleyes:

My preference is Senco , bostich guns are noisey, and to me kick more , bang when used . Never used the PC guns that I recall.

[Donn]

Uh-oh. It doesn't look like either one is sufficient, CFM-wise:

Bostitch = 3.4 CFM @ 40 PSI and 2.1 CFM @ 90 PSI
Porter-Cable = 3.7 CFM @ 40 PSI and 2.6 CFM @ 90 PSI

[Paul Girouard]

Uh-oh. It doesn't look like either one is sufficient, CFM-wise:

Bostitch = 3.4 CFM @ 40 PSI and 2.1 CFM @ 90 PSI
Porter-Cable = 3.7 CFM @ 40 PSI and 2.6 CFM @ 90 PSI

They'll run a framing gun , the compressor will just run more often . Unless your going into production framing I'd think they'd, either one, be fine for a home owner, around the house compressor.

[Torna]

Iv'e got the little PC, and though noisy seems sufficient. Any kind of 'continuous' tool (air nozzle, impact chisel, grinder) will cause it to run continually and it's really insufficient, but it's totally fine for any 'impulse' tool (nailer).

One of the benefits of the small ones (vs the bigger floor models) is that they're light enough to be easily hand-carried and they store enough air for a small job, a tire or a few dozen nails. Thus you can charge it at home and then carry it out to the middle of the field where the truck has a low tire and there's no power. You can also just carry it upstairs to the bedroom to tack up some new trim - no need to string hose all the way from the shop. So I've found it to be very handy for all the small stuff.

-leif

[GregH]

By all means, before you buy, have a salesman plug it in so you hear it run!!! Many of those little compressors are so noisy, it will absolutely drive you nuts-- especially since you want to use it indoors.

[Kim Whitmyre]

As most have said, for the "impulse" uses, most of the small compressors will do the trick. The oiless ones are the noisy ones, and they tend to live shorter lives. I have been using an Emglo 1 1/2 hp for years with my finish nailers/staplers. I was fortunate enough to obtain a much larger compressor recently: it lives in the shop, while the Emglo sits in the back of my van.

http://www.dewalt.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/DEWALT/TOOLS/LARGE/5/D55152_1.jpg

I see that DeWalt now markets the Emglo.

DeWalt/Emglo (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=6355)

[Ron Williamson]

I have had two PC pancake compressors and they both have run two 16 GA.trim nailers at a time, for days.
Personally,I think I prefer the 135 psi compressor vs. the 150psi,cuz IMHO,less pressure = less component stress.
If you go to Home Depot,you may notice that the compressors that are in the kits with framing nailers, are much larger capacity than the trim set ups.
All of the PC nailers are generic Taiwanese(read disposable),nothing like a Senco.That said,I have yet to wreck mine in ten years of hard use,with random maintenance.
R
Edited to add,If it is going into a truck,make sure that it isn't top heavy.It will roll around, wrecking itself and your other cargo.

[JTA]

http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/028877592275_4.jpg

I bought this in September of 2005. It has seen quite a bit of use doing trim work while re-building the house. No complaints. HD has it for $279.00 at the moment. I have not used a framing nailer with it.

Jack

[Torna]

Ron's comment reminded me of something else: Unlike the sturdy panel mounted port on the Emglo pictured above, the air output port of my PC is mounted at the end of the regulator which is mounted to the pressure shut-off switch. Though mine has never suffered, it looks as though a good tug on the air hose would break it all right off. I treat it gently.

-leif

[Lew Barrett]

Great Compressor here: Just got one, used extensively on recent job very impressed. Not my first or only compressor. Exceptionally well designed, light (relative) weight and very honest spec. Don't overlook this.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Aluminum-5-Gallon-Twin-Stack-Compressor/index.htm

[Lew Barrett]

Donn,

I would try and find something that have 20 or so gallons tank... Those small compressors with small tank won't keep up with sanding, grinding, impact hammer and chisels, impact wrenches... It okay for shooting nails, painting, airing up a tire..
.


Got to agree with you there. Not for sanding or running thirsty tools, but he didn't say he'd be doing that.

[Donn]

Thanks for the replies. I's a lot to learn about, since I've never had any air tools other than the 12v compressor in the van.

Sears has this one on sale:

33 gallon vertical or horizontal, 2HP, 15 AMP, 8.6 SCFM @ 40 PSI, 6.4 SCFM @ 90 PSI $299

Comes with a "free" $99 tool set including:
...3/8" ratchet wrench
...1300 impact/minute impact wrench
... .401 chisel shank air hammer
...odds and ends fittings, etc..

I'd have to add hose and nailers. I don't have much immediate need for the included tools, but imagine I'd get some use out of them over time.

[Donn]

Got to agree with you there. Not for sanding or running thirsty tools, but he didn't say he'd be doing that.

I don't see myself sanding with air. I have perfectly satisfactory sanders, an RO and a Multimaster.

I could see myself getting some use out of a mini-die grinder, though, and a paint gun.

[Lew Barrett]

I don't see myself sanding with air. I have perfectly satisfactory sanders, an RO and a Multimaster.

I could see myself getting some use out of a mini-die grinder, though, and a paint gun.

I think you'll do OK with any of the better small compressors in the event but if you do a lot of grinding a small compressor will cycle 100% and they're not made for that, if indeed they could run a grinder
for an extended period at all.

A 60 gallon compressor, in addition to taking up a lot of space will of course cost more. As alway, it pays to buy a decent tool if your plans include much use of it, but a number of the small hot dog tank compressors fall into the "decent" catagory. Look at that aluminum tank Ridgid Donn. Very nicely turned out tool.

[Donn]

Lew..I did look at it, but couldn't find it for sale online. What's it go for?

[kc8pql]

If you're going to use it for extended periods, like all day, look for a piston compressor rather than the oiless diaphram type. The latter will drive you nuts after a while. They have a loud buzzing sound that gets very tiring to listen to. Piston compressors can be loud too, but the pitch isn't as grating.

[Nicholas Carey]

I bought a Thomas Air-Pac T-2820ST (http://www.thomasairpac.com/products/airpac/airpac_electric/T-2820ST/t-2820st.jsp) on the basis of reviews and recommendations from framing carpenters.

http://www.thomasairpac.com/products/airpac/airpac_electric/T-2820ST/images/T-2820ST_250px.jpg

Here's the specs:

Air displacement: 9.0 CFM
Air delivery: 5 CMF @ 100psi, max pressure is 125psi
Motor: 2hp/13.5 amperes.
Pump: twin air pumps, oilless.
Recovery Time: 9 seconds

One of the things I liked is that a lot of 2hp compressors tend to blow a 15amp circuit on startup: Thomas compressors don't.

It's quiet, too: 74 decibals.

Rated for a 100% duty cycle -- how often the air pump is actually running. A lot of other compressors are rated for 50% duty cycle or lower.

Thomas claims you can drive 3 and possibly 4 framing nailers with it. Theoretically, this compressor can drive an (some?) HVLP conversion guns -- 8.5 CFM at 40psi, but I haven't exercised that. I think I'd hook up a bigger air tank if I was to do do any large spraying, though.

Now way it could drive an air sander, though -- they want 12+ CFM at 90psi.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I have a little two stack King Industrial... chinese, and I have a brad nailer, a stapler, an air chisel, a small die grinder, and a framing nailer. The little King puts out 5.2 @90psi, and it seems to work great. Cheap, but effective. The brad nailer is an awesome thing... and you can get stainless and monel brads and staples. I have been using the framing nailer on the addtion I am building... saves a ton of work, but I can see the appeal of something without hoses. One thing I use this thing for a LOT is with an air gun... I put the hose out the shop door and blow off work, vacuum filters, tools, ... it's a little thing, but I like it.

[Paul Girouard]

Well if you want a framing compressor get this one ,

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000225DG.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056652774_.gif

Features an innovative lower profile design that permits maximum job site portability. 2 HP electric motor delivers 8 CFM at 125 psi. Features a dual control switch that allows either start-stop or constant-run-use: includes on-off switch and a dual voltage switch that provides immediate switching from 115 to 230 volt operation, no motor wiring required (factory installed only).

The caddie of jobsite compressors, :) But thats not what he asked about.

I'm getting one of these , for pick up work . Light , small , easy to carry.

http://www.coastaltool.com/a/senc/images/pc0947.jpg

It's been on order for two weeks , $120.00 compressor only , first the snow was the issue , don't know what this weeks excuse is yet for why it's not here yet.

So different compressors have different uses.

[Lew Barrett]

Donn,
It's a new model so you may need to go to the Home Despot to pick it up, as I did. I'd been kicking around looking for a new small unit and this one caught my eye. Now that I have been using it for a few weeks, I am very pleased with it. I'm sure recommendations made by the other good folks here are fine too, but this one's a bit unusual in it's price category. It was under $300; $289 as I recall.
We ran two finish nailers off it, and sprayed our ceiling (1500 SF) with an HVLP rig. Took it all in stride, worked as well as I'd hoped. Looks and feels like a quality piece.

[JimConlin]

For years i've been thinking that when i grow up, i'll get me some big air sanders. Some quick research has found some (Hutchins) that want upwards of 11CFM at 90 PSI. Gonna need an outbuilding for thebig compressor (and of course the dust collector).

[kc8pql]

I'm getting one of these , for pick up work . Light , small , easy to carry.

http://www.coastaltool.com/a/senc/images/pc0947.jpg

It's been on order for two weeks , $120.00 compressor only , first the snow was the issue , don't know what this weeks excuse is yet for why it's not here yet.

So different compressors have different uses.
I bought the little Senco a few years ago when I was building the interior in my boat and got tired of dragging a 100' of hose up from the shop compressor. Worked fine for running a brad gun, narrow
crown stapler or finish nailer, one at a time. It's so small and handy that I've been taking it out to jobs for light work that I would just use a hammer for before. It's tiny, but it does have it's uses.

[Paul Girouard]

I bought the little Senco a few years ago when I was building the interior in my boat and got tired of dragging a 100' of hose up from the shop compressor. Worked fine for running a brad gun, narrow
crown stapler or finish nailer, one at a time. It's so small and handy that I've been taking it out to jobs for light work that I would just use a hammer for before. It's tiny, but it does have it's uses.

We ain't gettin any younger either, if I don't need to hump the twin tank up stairs to put in 20 ' of base , I ain't gonna :D

[Stiletto]

Paul, a lot of chippies over here are ditching their framing compressors for the gas operated Paslode Impulse nailguns, also their gas finishing guns. They are a lot easier to haul around the site than even a small compressor.

Why do you prefer an air driven finishing gun. Price?

[Paul Girouard]

Paul, a lot of chippies over here are ditching their framing compressors for the gas operated Paslode Impulse nailguns, also their gas finishing guns. They are a lot easier to haul around the site than even a small compressor.

Why do you prefer an air driven finishing gun. Price?

Those new guns might interest me if I didn't already have the air powered tools I have . It would seem like starting over, in a way.

I also think the nails are more spendy for the bigger ones , framing type.

I'm also not much on battery pwred saws , sawalls , etc screw gun / drill ya but the gys I've worked with that have the saws (battery pwred) the battery is either not charged , or they just don't last all day so you end uo dragging a corded saw out to finish anyway . They also are under powered , IMO , even the 18 vt ones , and they're heavy as hell, won't stay on a roof , no cord to loop around a nail , etc etc.

[kc8pql]

And you can't run a big air horn on your boat off an impluse nailgun.:D

[coelacanth2]

Ihave the Impulse framing nailer-a very handy tool. Great for up the ladder or putting up a duck blind or some such. Doesn't cycle as fast as a pneumatic but no hose, either.

[WadeH]

Donn go for it. You will like it. I have one for the last two years and it works great. I have a spray gun for it and as long as you are going to be painting a house or something it works great. I have used PC guns off and on for years. I also have a friend who makes his living building houses and he has one to and he loves it also. I think you will be happy with it from what you said about its use. In fact I think HD is even having a sale right now where you can get all 5 guns in the package inclucing the framer. Best of luck to you.

[Rick Starr]

I never ever would have bought an Ingersoll Rand T-80. I would have bought a succession of little compressors such as those described. I would have spent much more money on them overall, and I wouldn't have known the joys of air tools for certain uses. As it happened I stumbled on a guy who had one, 10 years old, that had never been installed, and he wanted something I had so we traded. I built a little shed for it, plumbed it, and I hardly ever hear it and it's there with plenty of air whenever needed. (175psi, 17cfm)

This is one of my more dramatic illustrations of the buy-cheap-buy-twice-or-more argument.

YMMV

Good luck.

[Donn]

So many choices!

That little Senco is the first one I looked at. Coastal Tool has the combo, with brad nailer, at $189. Add a stapler, and finish nailer and it would probably do 90% of what I need right now.

It appears, as with many tools, one can never have too many different levels of the same general tool.

[kc8pql]

Donn, I'd go a little bigger than the baby Senco. It's really a niche tool. One of the slightly larger ones mentioned will serve you better if it's your only compressor.

[Lew Barrett]

Donn, I'd go a little bigger than the baby Senco. It's really a niche tool. One of the slightly larger ones mentioned will serve you better if it's your only compressor.

Ditto.

[Uncle Duke]

I'd strongly recommend adding a water separator to the package. Although most compressor tanks will have a drain plug (to drain out the water which is created by compressing the vapor in 'wet air'), some will always get into the line and then into your tools. The tools will either capture the water (and slowly corrode internally) or will spit it out on what you're working on. Or both.
A $25 separator solves both problems.